Live Pause failure in (seen in 28.26, 29.27 and 29.36)

Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
edited 30 November 2017, 1:19PM in Support
This is a new fault not seen by me in either 27.50 or Old Gen as it appeared first in 28.26 and is now in 29.27

The live pause buffer navigation fails if a recording is taking place 

Trigger conditions (observed on a new DTRT-2100 that updated to 28.26 on first power up)
- Live Pause buffer is full (2 hours)
- display point is 'now' (ie front end of buffer)
- a recording is either occurring or has recently occurred

Symptoms
- Fast rewind is limited to 2x and the x2 display does not show
- 15 second instant rewind disabled
- If the fast forward is used then further x2 rewind is unavailable
- Any use of the instant +60 second function returns the display point to 'now'

In short if you dare to record something then you don't have a usable live pause buffer.  And the 2 hour buffer was one of the few discriminators YouView had.

(reports of this fault have been made before but have been incorrectly responded to as if it was the long standing back end of buffer 'stutter'.  At the suggestion of Visionman I have started this as a dedicated thread)

Update (25.10.17)
Please note as per posts below that a full 'Factory Reset' (available from the settings menu deletes all recordings and settings) does appear to temporarily cure this but the fault will return within a day

«1

Comments

  • zulu17zulu17 Posts: 809Member ✭✭
    What type of channels are you watching and recording when this occurs.

    eg ..  both Freeview, both IPTV , a mixture and are they SD or HD channels?
  • DanielDaniel Posts: 1,732Member ✭✭
    I have occasionally had this issue present right back to youview classic. Certainly not a new issue.
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    zulu17 said:
    What type of channels are you watching and recording when this occurs.

    eg ..  both Freeview, both IPTV , a mixture and are they SD or HD channels?
    BBC1 while concurrently recording same or Sky News.  In both cases in SD.
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Daniel said:
    I have occasionally had this issue present right back to youview classic. Certainly not a new issue.
    It occurs every day (I record BBC breakfast SD to get the local news), I never saw it before 28.26 and it does not occur with 27.50
  • RobertRobert Posts: 246Member ✭✭
    I have never run into this problem as yet but I remember some people did have it in the past. I have attempted on a couple of occssions recently to replicate this issue on my T2100 as I'd read reports of it happening but so far have not been able to replicate. Will test your scenario in the morning to see what happens @Steve K.
    Frequent browser....Infrequent poster!
  • jimbjimb Posts: 861Member ✭✭
    @Visionman in the recent related thread you said:
    "...These Hybrid buffer full issues (and there are many) have been around for about 10 years..."
    Could you please explain
    a) what is a Hybrid buffer (as far as I'm aware this hasn't been mentioned before in the forum)?
    b) what are you referring to as "about 10years" when YouView is only 5 years old?
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Robert said:
    I have never run into this problem as yet but I remember some people did have it in the past. I have attempted on a couple of occssions recently to replicate this issue on my T2100 as I'd read reports of it happening but so far have not been able to replicate. Will test your scenario in the morning to see what happens @Steve K.
    Thanks, would welcome others testing it too please
  • RobertRobert Posts: 246Member ✭✭
    OK guys. Tested this earlier having had a recording finish an hour before the Breakfast News programme began. I've run into no problems as those described by @Steve K but in the interest of fairness tomorrow morning I intend to run the other scenario. I will leave the Breakfast News running whilst recording Sky News at the same time and see if that triggers any issues.
    As Steve suggested above maybe others could try the same to determine if this is a widespread issue or not.
    As @Daniel has said above I do remember this happening for people in the past (Old Gen days) so it would be interesting to know why some people experience these problems and others don't. 

    Frequent browser....Infrequent poster!
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Thanks Robert

    I repeated the test this morning with a slight variation of setting the view point at 20 minutes back from true live and got the same result.  

    Have also just tried the live pause buffer over 2 hours after the recording ended and the fault is still there.  



  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    And still not recovered after 4 hours which has included >2 hours of no intervention on the box at all

    Next experiment:  Factory Reset 


  • RobertRobert Posts: 246Member ✭✭
    That may be worth a punt Steve. It doesn't appear to be a widespread issue or I'm sure more people would be posting about it. I know from memory this was definitely an issue for some people in Old Gen and was sporadic at best. It could be possible your box has picked up a 'bug' between builds and it is possible only a Reset will clear it. Only conjecture mind as I've been unable to replicate it today at all and I've left the box on even when I was out of the house.
    Frequent browser....Infrequent poster!
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Robert said:
    That may be worth a punt Steve. It doesn't appear to be a widespread issue or I'm sure more people would be posting about it. I know from memory this was definitely an issue for some people in Old Gen and was sporadic at best. It could be possible your box has picked up a 'bug' between builds and it is possible only a Reset will clear it. Only conjecture mind as I've been unable to replicate it today at all and I've left the box on even when I was out of the house.
    Yes judging from the test I've just run, it appears to have fixed it as the pause buffer was working fine just now while recording BBC Local News.  Will know for definite when I do the BBC Breakfast test tomorrow.

    A cautious  :) 
  • RobertRobert Posts: 246Member ✭✭
    We can compare notes in the morning. Hopefully you've got it sorted.
    Frequent browser....Infrequent poster!
  • GrundersGrunders Posts: 127Member
    edited 24 October 2017, 9:02PM
    Hello
    I was invited to contribute to this specific thread in a 'discussion' about this particular failure (yes, I use the word "failure" as I think it is in respect to handling the live buffer correctly).

    To be honest, I will reiterate the point (as per my findings) but dont really want to *discuss* things as I dont have the time and it doesnt achieve anything for me.  However, for solidarity I will confirm the problem exists despite others' resistance to acceptance (in other threads) and their self-appointed moderating of what problems are valid and what are not.

    My full report and actions to reproduce can be found here: https://community.youview.com/youview/discussion/comment/18954774/#Comment_18954774
    I know that the problem still exists as once again I experienced it this weekend (yes, it was watching F1 again - no coincidence as there are few times that one channel is tuned in for so long to exceed the 2 our buffer and a 3.5 hour live race coverage is a prime candidate for it).

    I would like to reiterat that the initial action of a recording must have happened at the same time does not seem to apply.  It would seem that in simplest terms all you need to do is to have the channel on, unchanged, for longer than 2 hours (ie, ignore point number (1) in my report).

    (Note: I fed back about 4 or 5 key issues in that thread about this particular version of the software with this just being one of them.  The rest can be found and read by scanning through the thread in its entirety.  And when my box updates to the latest version (which upon force checking half hour ago it still is not ready for doing so) I will be feeding back the same observations again if I see them but to the appropriate thread).

    Good luck with the campaign Steve K.  Ive been reading with interest.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    Grunders said:
    Hello
    I was invited to contribute to this specific thread in a 'discussion' about this particular failure (yes, I use the word "failure" as I think it is in respect to handling the live buffer correctly).
    I would like to reiterat that the initial action of a recording must have happened at the same time does not seem to apply.  It would seem that in simplest terms all you need to do is to have the channel on, unchanged, for longer than 2 hours (ie, ignore point number (1) in my report).
    This is true. But doesn't happen for everyone.
    I hope the new PM facility isn't being abused.
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Robert said:
    We can compare notes in the morning. Hopefully you've got it sorted.
    Well I slightly fouled up the test (Factory Reset also resets the damn standby timeout to 3 hours) but I will say the Factory Reset has cured it  :) 

    Interesting that a straight from the Factory DTRT-2100 requires a Factory Reset at first use after it immediately updates.    
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member

    I hope the new PM facility isn't being abused.
    Not by I

    I drew Grunders attention to this thread as it was now a dedicated thread at your suggestion.  
  • RobertRobert Posts: 246Member ✭✭
    edited 25 October 2017, 10:53AM
    @Steve K. I've given the box a real good workout this morning and I'm still seeing no problems. Hopefully that means all is good and that your reset has sorted your box. Fingers crossed.
    I've only ever reset my straight from the factory T2100 once but I found out afterwards that I had no need to do so. I've had the box for about 2 years now. My reset was done in haste and was unconnected to any software updates at the time.

    @Visionman. Interesting post here from Sarah re PMs https://community.youview.com/youview/discussion/comment/18990295#Comment_18990295

    Frequent browser....Infrequent poster!
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
      I despair

    One day later and the very same fault is back.  One thing I do know is I am not going to do a Factory Reset every day.

    So what experiment to try next?  Any suggestions?  The only thing I can think of is that yesterday the box had gone through an overnight standby and last night it did not as the standby time had been upped to 12 hours.

    memory leakage?
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Further update:  allowing the box to lapse into standby overnight and hey presto the fault doesn't show.  But of course there's no live pause buffer for the very time period I want (7 to 9 am on BBC1)

    This 'must have a standby' strongly suggests some sort of memory leakage or variable overflow and I repeat the fault was not seen in 27.50 or Old Gen
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    Have you considered the possibility you have an individual problem which isn't related to other users?
  • WayneWayne Posts: 76Member
    I've been experiencing this since Next Gen. Can't say which version number it started in though.

    My last experience of this issue was about a week ago. The box had been tuned to ITV HD for about 5 hours, at which point I experienced the problem described when trying to rewind. 

    I haven't had time to do detailed testing of the problem. I'll post back if I get chance to do so. 
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Thanks Wayne

    A further test last night.  I let the box go into deep sleep at 1am and restarted it about 2am

    Fault still present this morning.  

    With multiple reports of this it clearly is a design fault, perhaps YouView could do some investigation or at least suggest some test cases we could explore
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Well another test varying the conditions so the box got a full deep sleep but not a snooze and the fault still present

    This is a repeatable fault disabling a key PVR feature and present with 28.26 and 29.27 (but not 27.50 or Old Gen) It is reported by multiple users and a detail test conditions set has been provided.  Do YouView care? Seems 
  • DaveGrohlDaveGrohl Posts: 72Member
    Visionman said:
    Have you considered the possibility you have an individual problem which isn't related to other users?
    Except it isn't an individual problem though is it VM? I started a thread about this after I received the 28.26 update on my BT box, which you responded to. Forgotten? I'd never had the problem before.
  • DaveGrohlDaveGrohl Posts: 72Member
    Robert said:
    That may be worth a punt Steve. It doesn't appear to be a widespread issue or I'm sure more people would be posting about it. I know from memory this was definitely an issue for some people in Old Gen and was sporadic at best. It could be possible your box has picked up a 'bug' between builds and it is possible only a Reset will clear it. Only conjecture mind as I've been unable to replicate it today at all and I've left the box on even when I was out of the house.
    I conjectured it was a bug, but was told I didn't understand what I was talking about by a couple of contributors on here. It does however seem simple enough to my tiny mind: box working fine, overnight software update, result; box doesn't work properly any more. It is a huge issue for me that the live pause function has been corrupted and with it skipping about. It might not be for some.
  • jimbjimb Posts: 861Member ✭✭
    DaveGrohl said:
    ...I conjectured it was a bug, but was told I didn't understand what I was talking about by a couple of contributors on here. It does however seem simple enough to my tiny mind: box working fine, overnight software update, result; box doesn't work properly any more. It is a huge issue for me that the live pause function has been corrupted and with it skipping about. It might not be for some.
    I completely agree - the similar problems I'm getting are a big issue for me too.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    This will be my last post on this thread. However feel free to believe it or not. 

    If a user chooses to run with their buffer full, its normal functions can, and often will, fail.
    Aberrations abound (for which 'whacko' is my term) and have been around for about 10 years, and so even before YouView was born. IP channels suffer these aberrations too.
    I was asked to look into these aberrations about 9 years ago, running deliberate test conditions and then asked again 1 year later. Did either test team cure them? Did we heck.

    I can't really go into too much detail (sorry). But suffice to say neither DaveGrohl's thread nor Steve K's (this one) have been ignored. But I wouldn't hold your breath, sadly.

  • DaveGrohlDaveGrohl Posts: 72Member
    Well that's fair enough VM. It's the first time I've heard you say that. At least we know a bit more now thanks and that it has actually been looked at. Were you asked by Youview themselves?

    But basically we've got to lump it.
  • DaveGrohlDaveGrohl Posts: 72Member
    edited 1 November 2017, 7:41AM
    Soz, I know you don't want to post further on this thread but I'm curious about your choosing tp run with the buffer full comment. Surely that's what most boxes do by default if not switched off. What should we be doing? Changing channel every hour? Or did you mean something else?
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.