Updates on Sony TV

DJHB1980DJHB1980 Posts: 114Member
edited 20 November 2017, 9:35AM in Support
I know I ask repeatedly but will there be any (significant) updates to the YouView app built into Sony TV’s. 

There must have have been a reason that YouView is built into a TV minus all its features. 

Or was it a backdoor way for Sony to have access to all of the catchup players from BBC, ITV & Channels 4 & 5.

Seems nonsensical for the YouView interface to be built into the TV with nothing more going forward for 3odd yrs and nothing significant in way of improvement.
It actually had less functionality than the built in TV guide that supports recordings and playback!!!

Comments

  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 November 2017, 11:58AM
    Well, let’s start by getting our facts straight.

    Sony have the rights to the BBC iPlayer, and My5, or whatever it is called on these TVs, so all YouView brings to the party is the itv/STV Hub and All4.

    And the built-in TV Guide did not have record and playback initially.

    But apart from those things, your points stand; and that ‘How do I disable YouView?’ is item 1 of the Android-specific part of the FAQ for these TVs on the Sony forum is something of an indictment.

    But you have only to read that forum to realise that these sets are plagued with issues, and it is something of a tribute to the unburstability of the YouView software, or what there is of it on these TVs, that reports of issues from those who are using the YouView interface are so few and far between.

    And that people are using it was borne out by the level of reports about the All4 software not working properly, something that was out of YouView’s hands, and is anyway now fixed.

    Has YouView on these sets achieved its promise? No, alas, not.

    Why not? Well, that seems to be a closely guarded secret, but the first hint of trouble was when YouView was launched on these sets, and blew away the satellite functionality. So I’m guessing a footprint issue, but whether the YouView software was too big, or the space allocation by Sony was too small, who can say?

    But adding the recording functionality would have made the YouView footprint even bigger, and in the absence of a suitable shoehorn, I think everybody just tiptoed away from it.

    Not of course that the blown-away satellite functionality was anything to write home about, not being FreeSat, and taking hours to tune in, according to those complaining that the launch of YouView had just cost them those hours..

    But the general feeling over there seems to be that the very high quality screens on these sets make a brilliant, and inexpensive, partner for a Sky box, and the satisfaction there is enormous. As long as you keep away from the smarts on this ‘smart’ TV. And, even if you are never going to watch terrestrial, disable YouView anyway, as having it stops you setting the TV default power-on to be anything but YouView, when you probably want it to be whichever HDMI channel you have the Sky box on.

    But hold your breath for anything like YouView as it is on the YouView Recording boxes, or even as it is on the YouView zapper boxes, which at least let you pause/rewind live TV? I wouldn’t.

    I’m sure it all started with the best of intentions, but.....  :'(

    Oh, and those Players? Instead of praising YouView for bringing them to the TV, a lot of people seem to have the erroneous view that having YouView prevented Sony licensing them directly (which incidentally they have never done, on any of their devices) and actually blame YouView over this.

    But adding these Players when YouView is disabled is as simple and cheap as popping a £15 NowTV box on it, and you don’t even have to subscribe. (Though if you do, of course, you outstrip the YouView box’s NowTV capability, even on Sky Movies, where the YouView boxes do not carry the full offering that other sources of NowTV do).
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    DJHB1980 said:
    Seems nonsensical for the YouView interface to be built into the TV with nothing more going forward for 3odd yrs and nothing significant in way of improvement.
    It actually had less functionality than the built in TV guide that supports recordings and playback!!!
    I believe thats your answer right there, DJHB.
  • stormystormy Posts: 1,005Member
    It seems this might be more relevant than we think. Recently the BBC announced Blue Planet II will be on iPlayer in 4K. This uses HLG which the 2017 Android TVs now apparently support. However, they are not apparently supported according to the BBC. Only the none Android, non-Youview, Freeview Play TVs support 4K iPlayer (apparently lower range). 

    Is the version of iPlayer on the Sony TV linked to Youview or is it totally separate. The reason I ask is that according to the BBC Android 7 is not the issue. When I launch iPlayer on my TV it appears to be presented in the exact same way be it with Youview enabled or disabled.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    I don't know if this helps or muddies the waters but my 2016 4K model, the KD-43X8305C isn't listed as a BBC iPlayer certified device. In fact none of the KD-X range is listed. Yet as you observe, it is on both the TV and on YouView.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/Sony

    But can you list where the BBC have said this? Ta
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Posts: 629Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 December 2017, 4:44PM
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks for that John and its from your third link my query comes from, as it does list many of Sonys 2017 models as being listed, with the rest of its range to be added.
  • stormystormy Posts: 1,005Member
    edited 6 December 2017, 7:40PM
    Visionman,

    If you notice the list of supported Sony TVs Anaglypta quoted are all non Android TVs. The BBC news article explicitly mentioned both the A1 and ZD9, Sony's flagships, are excluded. Both Android TVs with Youview. Coincidence? Maybe.
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Posts: 629Member ✭✭✭
    @stormy
    The article also says this (my highlight):-

    "Sony's top-end ZD9 and A1 sets are also currently excluded, although the Japanese firm said that they would soon be added."

    John.
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • stormystormy Posts: 1,005Member
    Yeh the journalist who wrote that was quizzed and said that Sony didn't really confirm much. I guess time will tell. Might be too late for this test as it's only going to be up a month. Sony support are not giving much away. Plus the PS4 Pro was promised HDR YouTube support over a year ago in a similar article, now Sony are denying all knowledge and saying it's up to Google. So my confidence is not sky high. But remain hopeful. I just wondered if it was anything to do with Youview 
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 December 2017, 10:47PM
    No, stormy, its not.
    YouView is a numbers game. But is independent to Sony. As is Sony to YouView.

    Further to this (head in the clouds) I'd like to see the BBC iPlayer offering trial UHD (never mind HDR) on YouView. But I think thats some way away yet.

  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    I don’t understand why the BBC would say that their UHD transmissions on the iPlayer would benefit anyone with a UHD set that could use the higher colour gamut it provides (as my 2015 Samsung would, though its HDR is not HLG) and then not make it available to them?
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • stormystormy Posts: 1,005Member

    @Visionman I am not sure if you miss understood me, or I am just slow this morning. I don't mean to suggest Sony or Youview have any tie in with respect to the future or direction.

    What I meant is that, is the iPlayer version on the Sony Android TVs something to do with the version tied to Youview? We know Youview iPlayer does not support the UHD trials and I wondered if there was some link there which explained why the XE70 models (with Linux and Freeview Play) are included in the HLG UHD BBC trial?

    It is probably as you suggest, no link at all. I just don't understand why the XE70 is supporting the UHD trials, when the XE80, XE90, ZD9 and A1 higher range models aren't. All Android TV with Youview.

    @Roy I don't see the BBC supporting anything other than HLG going forward. So you are right, any HDR TV which does not support HLG is no go. The extra annoying thing is my XE90 DOES support HLG yet it STILL cannot get UHD iPlayer!

  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    stormy said:

    @Roy I don't see the BBC supporting anything other than HLG going forward. So you are right, any HDR TV which does not support HLG is no go. The extra annoying thing is my XE90 DOES support HLG yet it STILL cannot get UHD iPlayer!

    I can only think this is just for the trial, as a major point of HLG is that if you don’t have it, then it doesn’t matter - unlike, say, with HDR on a UHD Blu-ray, where the player and your TV need to negotiate if it gets sent or not, this is not a consideration with the BBC’s representations.

    I can only asume, and hope, that this test transmission is being limited to HLG sets so that (a) it is seen to its maximum advantage by everyone receiving it - especially those who are reviewing it for magazines and websites, etc. - and also to limit the bandwidth the BBC needs to put out for this initial test.

    And later UHD is going to play, albeit without HDR, on NON-HLG sets.
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Posts: 629Member ✭✭✭
    Correct Roy.
    The whole point of HLG is that you only have to produce one version of a programme. Your TV will display it whether it's an old CRT screen or a spangly new UHD HLG model.

    This is a trial, and a much bigger one than last years.

    John.
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • stormystormy Posts: 1,005Member

    I am a bit confused, surely if a device does not support HLG then...... The BBC seem to suggest this is why my TV isn't working with the UHD trial even though Sony claim HLG is supported.

    Is HLG only for the trial?

  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Posts: 629Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2017, 11:35AM
    @stormy
    The H part of HLG is HYBRID. This article, although a little technical in places, explains HLG.

    If you have a TV which supports HLG and you have a YouTube app on it, you can experience UHD HDR material right now. YouTube encodes all their HDR videos using the VP9-HLG and Dolby Vision codecs.

    Official YouTube channel

    John

    EDIT:- BBC R&D article link added

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/high-dynamic-range


    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • stormystormy Posts: 1,005Member

    Yeh, unfortunately the Sony Android TVs are bugged with Youtube also, Sony again blame Google, Google blame Sony, so no HDR there either. Most Sony TVs don't support Dolby Vision, only HDR10. There are issues on Sony with VP9 on Youtube so while 4K works, HDR doesn't.

    Luckily Amazon and Netflix and Playstation HDR10 all works.

  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    stormy said:

    I am a bit confused, surely if a device does not support HLG then...... The BBC seem to suggest this is why my TV isn't working with the UHD trial even though Sony claim HLG is supported.

    Is HLG only for the trial?

    No stormy, its the format both the BBC and NHK have developed and its offered for free.
    Going forward, its also the format all UHD YouViews and UHD Sky Qs will run with/in.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    Visionman said:
    stormy said:

    I am a bit confused, surely if a device does not support HLG then...... The BBC seem to suggest this is why my TV isn't working with the UHD trial even though Sony claim HLG is supported.

    Is HLG only for the trial?

    No stormy, its the format both the BBC and NHK have developed and its offered for free.
    Going forward, its also the format all UHD YouViews and UHD Sky Qs will run with/in.
    It would seem that the BBC are interrogating the model of TV in use, and if it isn’t on the BBC’s list, you don’t get the trial, even if your set is actually dripping with HLG.

    Does that Imply that the BBC can’t actually detect if your set has HLG or not?
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • stormystormy Posts: 1,005Member
    edited 10 December 2017, 1:36AM
    This was my point @Roy the Sony Android sets supposedly support HLG yet are again missed from this latest trial. I read on twitter that it's either 1. As you suggest the TV is reporting itself as generic 'Android 7', 2. Sony have messed up with the HLG implementation with Android TV, it works on the Sony Linux models. 3. The Android TV setups do not support DVB-DASH.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    stormy said:
    This was my point @Roy the Sony Android sets supposedly support HLG yet are again missed from this latest trial. I read on twitter that it's either 1. As you suggest the TV is reporting itself as generic 'Android 7', 2. Sony have messed up with the HLG implementation with Android TV, it works on the Sony Linux models. 3. The Android TV setups do not support DVB-DASH.
    Its an early Beta test trial. They can't include everyone. 
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    stormy said:
    This was my point @Roy the Sony Android sets supposedly support HLG yet are again missed from this latest trial. I read on twitter that it's either 1. As you suggest the TV is reporting itself as generic 'Android 7', 2. Sony have messed up with the HLG implementation with Android TV, it works on the Sony Linux models. 3. The Android TV setups do not support DVB-DASH.
    What I’m actually suggesting is

    4. There is no way to tell if a TV supports HLG or not, so the BBC have to rely on being told by the makers of the sets if they do or not, and are only listing the ones they have been told about, and recognising them by model code.

    With various side trips into ‘there is a way to tell, but it’s unreliable, or the BBC can’t use it, and so on” and “the makers haven’t told the BBC about further HLG sets they have, or they have and the BBC hasn't listed them/ hasn’t listed them yet”.

    Who knows? Anybody know if a set with HLG declares this fact, and if so, how?
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • stormystormy Posts: 1,005Member
    So today SonyUK tweeted a few responses suggesting that pretty much all the 2017 Android TVs would be getting UHD HDR iPlayer.
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