[Discussion] BT software update 29.36.0

13

Comments

  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    edited 3 December 2017, 7:31AM
    Steve K said:
    Roy said:You are saying it is a problem of YouView’s making that the BT functions overstress T1000s? If so - and it remains to be proved - then BT will remedy this for those who apply. Other users don’t need it.

    Well ask yourself a few questions:

    - did Old Gen overstress T1000s?    Nope

    Roy: So why do you think NextGen does? Do you just make an arbitrary decision that reinforces your prejudices, or what?

    - do new generations of software techniques tend to come with increased demands on the platform?  Oh yes

    Roy: We are assured NextGen doesn’t. Or do you think YouView are incorrect here (to put it tactfully?)
    And, by extension that Microsoft, who have made similar claims for Windows 10 over earlier releases, have thousands of developers, all of whom are familiar with the code they have developed, is gainsaid by your expertise and wisdom, despite never having seen a single line of that code?

    - did YouView or BT develop Next Gen?  YV

    Roy: So you think YouView wrote the BT code that runs in NextGen for them? I think you will find that is not the case here.

    - if something walks like a duck and quacks like a duck is it likely a duck?  Yes

    Roy: Oh yes, let’s resort to unsupported cliche here.

    Now we don't know what the deal between YouView and BT was but it's hard to imagine that there wasn't an explicit or enforceable implied requirement that Next Gen supported BT functions on all BT supplied boxes.  

    Roy: <irony> Oh yes, BT employ a bunch of know-nothing developers with scant grasp of the hardware strengths and limitations of the equipment they are working with.</irony>

    So if I was BT I'd be getting more than a little tetchy with YouView right now

    Roy: Put the case that YouView, entirely reasonably, thought  that BT were fully aware of the base, T1000, specification they were working to. And yet BT went charging off and wrote something over-ambitious for that. Now, who would have the right to get tetchy here?
    Oh, and I’m still waiting for your answer about whether or not BT will always swap out T1000s for its BT TV customers; is the answer too inconvenient to your thesis for you to give it?
    I also remain intrigued by your comment about suing over the situation here. There being no crime on the statute book of abandoning users on a less functional release than they had previously, what legal basis would you contemplate proceeding on, pray?
    Still, I admire your misguided tenacity here; while those who made the thousands of posts outraged that NextGen was a backward step from OldGen have gone elsewhere, or settled back down to discontented mutterings, you alone, it seems, keep the flag flying for the rightly aggrieved. Even if your over-egging of the pudding does you, and them, no favours.








    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 December 2017, 9:49PM
    jonesh said:
    redchiz said:
    It's Saturday night for heaven's sake, do give it a rest.
    Or take it outside. ;)
    https://youtu.be/SEsBYtjsGGI
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Roy said: So you think YouView wrote the BT code that runs in NextGen for them? I think you will find that is not the case here.

    No, where do you get that idea from?  YV wrote the code that should have left at least the same resources headroom as Old Gen did for the BT code (even on DTRT-1000s).  So did it?

    And I'm unaware that Microsoft changed their dev language for Windows 10 so not sure what point you are making there.
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Roy please edit your posts above where you insert your words in italics into quotes of my posts.  Over at the BT forum someone wrongly believes that your nasty words so inserted were posted by me.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    edited 4 December 2017, 10:14AM
    Steve K said:
    Roy said: So you think YouView wrote the BT code that runs in NextGen for them? I think you will find that is not the case here.

    No, where do you get that idea from?  YV wrote the code that should have left at least the same resources headroom as Old Gen did for the BT code (even on DTRT-1000s).  So did it?

    And I'm unaware that Microsoft changed their dev language for Windows 10 so not sure what point you are making there.
    So didn’t it? It’s only BT TV T1000s left on 27.50.0, after all, not even all BT T1000s.

    And if you wanted your comment about ‘new generations of software techniques’ to be restricted purely to dev languages, you should have said so. 
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭

    Steve K said:
    Roy please edit your posts above where you insert your words in italics into quotes of my posts.  Over at the BT forum someone wrongly believes that your nasty words so inserted were posted by me.
    I wish this software supported proper Usenet-style quoting  :(

    Anyway, I have added my name to my interspersed comments, and bracketed what is probably the offending one with <irony> to indicate that is how it was meant.
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Roy said:

    Steve K said:
    Roy please edit your posts above where you insert your words in italics into quotes of my posts.  Over at the BT forum someone wrongly believes that your nasty words so inserted were posted by me.
    I wish this software supported proper Usenet-style quoting  :(

    Anyway, I have added my name to my interspersed comments, and bracketed what is probably the offending one with <irony> to indicate that is how it was meant.
    Thanks Roy.  
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Roy said:
    Steve K said:
    Roy said: So you think YouView wrote the BT code that runs in NextGen for them? I think you will find that is not the case here.

    No, where do you get that idea from?  YV wrote the code that should have left at least the same resources headroom as Old Gen did for the BT code (even on DTRT-1000s).  So did it?

    And I'm unaware that Microsoft changed their dev language for Windows 10 so not sure what point you are making there.
    So didn’t it? It’s only BT TV T1000s left on 27.50.0, after all, not even all BT T1000s. .. .

    So?  Still likely to be a very large number.  The point is BT would have expected/contracted YV to leave enough platform resources for BT TV to run.  Is the software overlay the same on retail boxes?  I don't know but I do know what BT told me in confidence and I'm sure you can join up the dots to work out what that was.
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    So back on topic.  That we waited 6 weeks from 29.27 for a minor bug fix in 29.36 what does this indicate for fixing the real issues of Next Gen?
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Roy said:

    Roy: Put the case that YouView, entirely reasonably, thought  that BT were fully aware of the base, T1000, specification they were working to. And yet BT went charging off and wrote something over-ambitious for that. Now, who would have the right to get tetchy here?
    Oh, and I’m still waiting for your answer about whether or not BT will always swap out T1000s for its BT TV customers; is the answer too inconvenient to your thesis for you to give it?
    I also remain intrigued by your comment about suing over the situation here. There being no crime on the statute book of abandoning users on a less functional release than they had previously, what legal basis would you contemplate proceeding on, pray?


    Taking those points in turn:
    a) I don't know that BT did have to rewrite their code if it worked co hosted with Old Gen.  
    b) (BT swap out of DTRT-1000s):  We know that sometimes they will and we know (you'll recall I posted the conversation record) that sometimes they refuse as a first tactic.  
    c) Tort and possibly under section 3 of the Computer Misuse Act 1990 "reckless impairing"
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    edited 3 December 2017, 2:29PM
    Steve K said:
    Taking those points in turn:
    a) I don't know that BT did have to rewrite their code if it worked co hosted with Old Gen.  

    Roy: Oh. Well, BT’s OldGen code would no more run on NextGen that YouView’s code would. And a principal idea of NextGen was that the BT and TT players would be much more integrated than they had been on OldGen. So both partners did a pretty major rewrite on their players to exploit NextGen to the full.

    b) (BT swap out of DTRT-1000s):  We know that sometimes they will and we know (you'll recall I posted the conversation record) that sometimes they refuse as a first tactic.  

    Roy: no sorry, I don’t recall. I don’t doubt you, but can you provide the link?

    c) Tort and possibly under section 3 of the Computer Misuse Act 1990 "reckless impairing"

    Roy: Tort requires a duty of care. Do you reckon you can establish that YouView owed us that duty? (Though if you can, I don’t think it would be very hard to then establish YouView as a tortfeasor).

    As regards the 1990 Act, your first problem would be characterising a YouView box as a computer. If even smartphones are not (yet?) covered, this will be a hard row to hoe.

    Secondly, we have ‘The §§2–3 offences are aggravated offences, requiring a specific intent to commit another offence (for these purposes, the other offences are to be arrestable, and so include all the major common law and statutory offences of fraud and dishonesty).’

    So even if you could prove that YouView wasn’t authorised to modify its own code (!), you would still then have to establish that YouView was doing this in pursuit of the commission of an arrestable offence.

    Lots of luck  :p

    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Ta for the BT rewrite information.  I'm a bit wallied to comment further because I did agree to keep my discussion with BT private

    And I reckon that Act would hold sway but it would be expensive to pursue it.  Although the 12 month potential sentence for reckless impairment might focus a few minds.

    I'll PM you the BT conversation for reasons I'll explain in the PM
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    I've just had a really private, in confidence, conversation with [insert provider name here]. So I can't publicly talk about it.
    So I'll PM you, and you, and you and you and you. And I'll PM you as well. What? Your not interested? Aw shucks, I'll break confidence and PM you anyway.....
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 295Member
    Visionman said:
    I've just had a really private, in confidence, conversation with [insert provider name here]. So I can't publicly talk about it.
    So I'll PM you, and you, and you and you and you. And I'll PM you as well. What? Your not interested? Aw shucks, I'll break confidence and PM you anyway.....
    Why don't you PM Roy and he'll explain why to you.  Or you could PM me and I'll explain direct.  And then you can publicly apologise when you realise there is a very good reason
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    edited 4 December 2017, 8:39PM
    I've previously said the TV switching HDMI issue has been cured, but I've seen a few posts across the internet that stated its hasn't and one of them had my model of Sony TV. Is anyone here having problems?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    Visionman said:
    I've previously said the TV switching HDMI issue has been cured, but I've seen a few posts across the internet that stated its hasn't and one of them had my model of Sony TV. Is anyone here having problems?
    Well, when I turn on our main bedroom-based YouView box, it switches on the Samsung TV, which then goes to HDMI 3 so we can watch the YouView box.

    Which is great if this is the port we have the YouView box on, but damned inconvenient if the box is actually on port 1, 2 or 4.

    And is not something that ought even to be possible, let alone to be happening, in such circumstances.

    But it is not something that has come only with the latest release.
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • StompaStompa Posts: 31Member
    edited 4 December 2017, 10:34PM
    Visionman said:
    I've previously said the TV switching HDMI issue has been cured, but I've seen a few posts across the internet that stated its hasn't and one of them had my model of Sony TV. Is anyone here having problems?

    Yes. I have my box connected to HDMI1 of my Sony 46EX723. Tonight I switched the box on, and it switched to HDMI1 but with a blank screen. I had to manually switch the TV to HDMI3 then back to HDMI1 to get a picture. To be fair, this doesn't seem to happen as often as it used to with earlier versions, but it still happens.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks, Stompa.
    Previously with my kit, a Sony YouView KD-43X8305C and either a retail T2000 or BT T2100 the problem would happen only very intermittently, but now doesn't at all. 
  • speedyritespeedyrite Posts: 52Member
    Visionman said:
    I've previously said the TV switching HDMI issue has been cured, but I've seen a few posts across the internet that stated its hasn't and one of them had my model of Sony TV. Is anyone here having problems?
    Yes, partially, as per my comment on 28/11 earlier in this thread (tv is Sony XE9005 and the tv's Bravia Sync menu doesn't list the YouView box in its list of controllable attached devices, but I'm assuming it's probably the YouView box that's at fault).
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    edited 5 December 2017, 9:53AM
    Visionman said:
    I've previously said the TV switching HDMI issue has been cured, but I've seen a few posts across the internet that stated its hasn't and one of them had my model of Sony TV. Is anyone here having problems?
    Yes, partially, as per my comment on 28/11 earlier in this thread (tv is Sony XE9005 and the tv's Bravia Sync menu doesn't list the YouView box in its list of controllable attached devices, but I'm assuming it's probably the YouView box that's at fault).
    The YouView box implements only a limited subset of CEC, restricted, as far as I know, to powering on a connected TV and switching to the active HDMI input. On a good day, when the wind is from the West, and the auguries are favourable.

    The TV will be looking for rather fuller control, such that, say, it can give over its Programme Up/Down button to making the YouView box, not the TV, change channels. And such options not being offered by the YouView box, it does not figure in the TV’s list of controllable devices.


    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • speedyritespeedyrite Posts: 52Member
    Roy said:
    Visionman said:
    I've previously said the TV switching HDMI issue has been cured, but I've seen a few posts across the internet that stated its hasn't and one of them had my model of Sony TV. Is anyone here having problems?
    Yes, partially, as per my comment on 28/11 earlier in this thread (tv is Sony XE9005 and the tv's Bravia Sync menu doesn't list the YouView box in its list of controllable attached devices, but I'm assuming it's probably the YouView box that's at fault).
    The YouView box implements only a limited subset of CEC, restricted, as far as I know, to powering on a connected TV and switching to the active HDMI input. On a good day, when the wind is from the West, and the auguries are favourable.

    The TV will be looking for rather fuller control, such that, say, it can give over its Programme Up/Down button to making the YouView box, not the TV, change channels. And such options not being offered by the YouView box, it does not figure in the TV’s list of controllable devices.


    I guess that explains it then. Thanks.
  • Youview software (which is done by Youview, not the box manufacturers) just gets steadily worse. With this new upgrade my HDMI-CMC link stopped working. The promised reduced channel logo time on channel change stopped working.
    Add to this old problems, like, after switching the box on, having to make a number of button presses just to get to watch the tv and the system just isn’t fit for purpose. 
    Fortunately, John Lewis agreed with me and gave me a refund. Except for the remote record function, which I really miss, my eight year old Panasonic dvds is much better. And it plays dvds!
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,360Member ✭✭✭
    What are DVDs?   ;)
  • I’ve left a comment here and I’ve had an email notification of a reply but I cannot find any way to read forum content on an iPad. Can anyone help?
  • Youview software (which is done by Youview, not the box manufacturers) just gets steadily worse. With this new upgrade my HDMI-CMC link stopped working. The promised reduced channel logo time on channel change stopped working.
    Add to this old problems, like, after switching the box on, having to make a number of button presses just to get to watch the tv and the system just isn’t fit for purpose. 
    Fortunately, John Lewis agreed with me and gave me a refund. Except for the remote record function, which I really miss, my eight year old Panasonic dvds is much better. And it plays dvds!
    Promised reduced logo time not there!
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,463Member ✭✭✭
    Hi Joesunlight. This is a BT thread, so you need to post on a retail Humax thread.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭
    redchiz said:
    What are DVDs?   ;)
    If you go by some allotments, you may see silvery discs twisting in the breeze near peoples’ precious plants, the intention being to keep birds at bay due to the constant visual motion.

    These, Virginia, are DVDs.
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,360Member ✭✭✭
    edited 9 December 2017, 8:13PM
    Ah, I thought they were CDs, my bad, Royston.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,233Member ✭✭✭

    I’ve left a comment here and I’ve had an email notification of a reply but I cannot find any way to read forum content on an iPad. Can anyone help?
    If you read the email on your iPad, and tap on that last line, then Safari should open in the forum, and display that email.

    If you don’t get the email on your iPad though, then open Safari anyway, and go to 
    https://community.youview.com/youview/
    and you will be here.

    Sent from my iPad.


    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • NewfyNewfy Posts: 13Member
    My BT 4K YV Box took this update yesterday evening (had to force it down) - and I noticed afterwards, that the S/W summary doesnt record the date of installing the Update - only the date that a Check for Updates was last performed    .... did this change happen with NextGen originally, or has it just been introduced as another retrograde change ?
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