Manually add to start/end of recordings

mac464mac464 Posts: 3Member
edited 6 August 2017, 11:17PM in Archived Posts
when will we be able to extend to start/end of scheduled recordings as too many recordings end before the programe has ended.
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Comments

  • Jesse1Jesse1 Posts: 275Member
    edited 14 April 2017, 5:24PM
    Hi mac464, thanks for posting. We’re looking into your query and will get back to you with a response as soon as possible.
  • Trevor StokesTrevor Stokes Posts: 24Member
    edited 21 September 2012, 7:30AM
    Jesse, I think that this is a good idea. Most other PVRs give this ability.

    Well done Mac464 for suggesting this!
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,424Member, Champion mod
    edited 4 March 2017, 9:29AM
    Related to this is the topic on manually setting or modifying scheduled recordings.

    Related to the specific idea of tweaking the start/end of a recording is the possible idea of auto padding, i.e. being able to define that it automatically adds say 2 minutes to the start/end of each scheduled recording. A downside of this though is it potentially introduces clashes/overlaps that would not otherwise exist so then there needs to be some further logic to prioritise which of the overlaps gets missed.
  • edited 21 September 2012, 10:22AM
    Keith1 said:

    Related to this is the topic on manually setting or modifying scheduled recordings.

    Related to the specific idea of tweaking the start/end of a recording is the possible idea of auto padding, i.e. being able to define that it automatically adds say 2 minutes to the start/end of each scheduled recording. A downside of this though is it potentially introduces clashes/overlaps that would not otherwise exist so then there needs to be some further logic to prioritise which of the overlaps gets missed.

    Any padding needs to ensure it doesn't replicate the problems of Virgin Media's awful TiVo which keeps the padding even when recording two consecutive shows on the same channel and so uses two tuners to record them.

    This means their much trumped three tuners are often not available as teo are recording (say) 3 minutes of padding (after one show and before another) on the same channel.

    So yes, padding would be nice, especially as a lot of shows on BBC Radio 4 Extra run late so I miss the end, but only if they don't diminish the service or introduce new problems.
  • Jesse1Jesse1 Posts: 275Member
    edited 11 April 2017, 9:13AM
    Hi mac464, thanks for your feedback. We are looking into adding this feature in the future. It will take significant work, so don't expect it immediately, but it's an option we're considering.
  • tracestraces Posts: 199Member
    edited 24 November 2016, 7:25PM
    Have noticed sometimes if an episode is in the EPG from 9pm, due to the accurate recording facility, it won't start recording until after the adverts at 9.03pm.

    YouView needs to determine a suitable protocol for minimizing discrepancies in start/end timings, where there is a compromise of minimal overrun but always records 100% of the schedule.
  • Ian2Ian2 Posts: 45Member
    edited 27 September 2012, 2:48PM
    Series one TiVo from year 2000, which I still use, had two type of padding hard and soft.

    Hard padding is when you added say 5 minutes extra to a programme recording and if the 5 minutes extra clashed with another recording the other recording would not take place, but at least you got the end of the recording. I have 15 minutes padding permenantly of Casualty as it always overran (and 30 minutes on F1).

    Soft padding (written by a TiVo hacker) only adds the padding if it is not going to stop a subsequent recording. Great as generally extends programmes but occasionally would miss the end of one programme at the expense of getting the next recording.

    The soft padding could also apply different amounts depending on the channel ie BBC add 5 minutes, CBBC add 2 minutes etc.

    Be nice to have better padding on YouView.
  • Des TaitDes Tait Posts: 3Member
    edited 5 November 2015, 10:30AM
    I also think this is a must have feature, most other PVR's allow for programmes starting early or late. Please incorporate as soon as possible.
  • Mike3Mike3 Posts: 99Member
    edited 16 May 2014, 6:28PM
    Keith1 said:

    Related to this is the topic on manually setting or modifying scheduled recordings.

    Related to the specific idea of tweaking the start/end of a recording is the possible idea of auto padding, i.e. being able to define that it automatically adds say 2 minutes to the start/end of each scheduled recording. A downside of this though is it potentially introduces clashes/overlaps that would not otherwise exist so then there needs to be some further logic to prioritise which of the overlaps gets missed.

    Would be useful as at the moment we lose the start of some programmes
  • [removed][removed] Posts: 282Member
    edited 5 November 2015, 10:30AM
    Jesse this is not an option you should be considering, It is an absolute Must and should be one of the top priority improvements.

    To just be considering such an important feature just shows what a ramshackle outfit the whole YouView project is.
  • Mike3Mike3 Posts: 99Member
    edited 16 May 2014, 6:28PM
    Keith1 said:

    Related to this is the topic on manually setting or modifying scheduled recordings.

    Related to the specific idea of tweaking the start/end of a recording is the possible idea of auto padding, i.e. being able to define that it automatically adds say 2 minutes to the start/end of each scheduled recording. A downside of this though is it potentially introduces clashes/overlaps that would not otherwise exist so then there needs to be some further logic to prioritise which of the overlaps gets missed.

    I am having the same issues with quite a few programmes now having missed the start
  • ZeddZedd Posts: 1Member
    edited 5 November 2015, 10:30AM
    I've only had my YouView box since last Tuesday (less than a week) and I've already missed the end of 3 recordings.

    Having committed to stay with this system for 2 years I really do hope that it gets sorted soon...
  • craghoppercraghopper Posts: 28Member
    edited 8 October 2012, 1:27PM
    Just started using Youview and find the loss of beginnings and endings of recorded programmes very annoying! Youview replaces a BT Vision box, which had no problem recording the entire programme without loss, presumably by starting to record before the scheduled programme and ending some time after the scheduled ending of the programme. This is the functionality that Youview needs - not messing around with manual extensions to recording times. As far as I know, all other PVRs manage this issue without any problem and I can't understand why this wasn't resolved before release.
  • edited 16 May 2014, 6:28PM
    YouView uses Accurate Record which uses data from the broadcaster to start and end the recordings on time. This helps ensure that if a show is delayed - for example by a breaking newsflash - you still get the whole programme.

    In addition the EPG is updated if shows move around due to a late schedule change. This means recordings and series links still get your show for you.

    These are top features that Virgin Media's TiVo customers lack on a box they both pay for installation of AND a £5 monthly fee and even then they only get a MAXIMUM of 5 minutes of paddings.

    But of course such features do rely on broadcasters sending the right data.

    If you have a lot of clipped recordings on the same channel I'd suggest it's worth raising this with the broadcaster.

    That said, I'd also like the option to add a little bit of padding at the top and tail of recordings.
  • craghoppercraghopper Posts: 28Member
    edited 8 October 2012, 3:18PM
    Thanks. I have no experience of Virgin or Sky but was very happy with the record function of my BT Vision box - individual programme and series record, including +1 channels and repeats, all worked really well with no loss of beginings or endings. Perhaps Accurate Record is a bit too accurate...
  • Mike3Mike3 Posts: 99Member
    edited 16 May 2014, 6:28PM
    Martin1 said:

    YouView uses Accurate Record which uses data from the broadcaster to start and end the recordings on time. This helps ensure that if a show is delayed - for example by a breaking newsflash - you still get the whole programme.

    In addition the EPG is updated if shows move around due to a late schedule change. This means recordings and series links still get your show for you.

    These are top features that Virgin Media's TiVo customers lack on a box they both pay for installation of AND a £5 monthly fee and even then they only get a MAXIMUM of 5 minutes of paddings.

    But of course such features do rely on broadcasters sending the right data.

    If you have a lot of clipped recordings on the same channel I'd suggest it's worth raising this with the broadcaster.

    That said, I'd also like the option to add a little bit of padding at the top and tail of recordings.

    Not sure how you would raise this with the broadcaster ??????
  • edited 8 October 2012, 6:43PM
    Martin1 said:

    YouView uses Accurate Record which uses data from the broadcaster to start and end the recordings on time. This helps ensure that if a show is delayed - for example by a breaking newsflash - you still get the whole programme.

    In addition the EPG is updated if shows move around due to a late schedule change. This means recordings and series links still get your show for you.

    These are top features that Virgin Media's TiVo customers lack on a box they both pay for installation of AND a £5 monthly fee and even then they only get a MAXIMUM of 5 minutes of paddings.

    But of course such features do rely on broadcasters sending the right data.

    If you have a lot of clipped recordings on the same channel I'd suggest it's worth raising this with the broadcaster.

    That said, I'd also like the option to add a little bit of padding at the top and tail of recordings.

    Via email or telephone?

    ALl broadcasters have websites and contact details on them, here's some to get you going:

    http://www.youview.com/support/kb/use...
  • Mike3Mike3 Posts: 99Member
    edited 16 May 2014, 6:28PM
    Martin1 said:

    YouView uses Accurate Record which uses data from the broadcaster to start and end the recordings on time. This helps ensure that if a show is delayed - for example by a breaking newsflash - you still get the whole programme.

    In addition the EPG is updated if shows move around due to a late schedule change. This means recordings and series links still get your show for you.

    These are top features that Virgin Media's TiVo customers lack on a box they both pay for installation of AND a £5 monthly fee and even then they only get a MAXIMUM of 5 minutes of paddings.

    But of course such features do rely on broadcasters sending the right data.

    If you have a lot of clipped recordings on the same channel I'd suggest it's worth raising this with the broadcaster.

    That said, I'd also like the option to add a little bit of padding at the top and tail of recordings.

    Nice one cheers
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,424Member, Champion mod
    edited 4 March 2017, 9:29AM
    Personally I'm not experiencing/noticing any significant problem with recordings being clipped/cut short at the beginning/end. From the above replies I'm assuming though others are seeing this issue across a wide range of channels. If that is not the case it would be interesting to know which channels most often exhibit the issue.

    This topic began as a question but I wonder would it be better reclassified. If the key point of the topic is that recording is not accurate or as the end user should reasonably expect then it is a 'problem' that should be addressed. If however, whilst agreeing this is an issue when recordings get clipped, this is really more of a suggestion that more flexible recording options need to be offered then perhaps it would be better labelled as an 'idea' giving input into adaptive/intelligent recording padding or soft padding as described by Ian above.

    Whatever category it is, if/when a feature is introduced to address this it needs to be suitably intelligent so it can generally track a recording even if there are schedule delays/changes and add up to a user defined amount of padding if desired but only when doing so does not result in a triple recording clash that needlessly prevents one item from recording at all or being even more badly clipped when the padding should be sacrificed/cut short to avoid such a situation.

    A bigger problem for me is when scheduled programmes do not run to schedule/overrun and the box does not adapt. This will often be sporting events where experience tells me this will happen and hence I would like to be able to compensate more than a small amount of padding by also being able to manually adjust scheduled recordings.

    In both cases I think the key is the user needs choice/options to address such situations (without confusing or over complicating it for those that do not want to worry about such things).

    For completeness I'll mention both these issues are included in the consolidated list of improvements and feature requests at item numbers 21 and 22 :)
  • Ryan1Ryan1 Posts: 29Member
    edited 16 October 2012, 12:13PM
    Hi Jesse

    This is so simple to sort out properly i.e. Solution not remedy!

    My Panasonic Blu-Ray Recorder utilises both Tuners even if the following programme being recorded is on the same channel. This Huawei Box seems to continue using the same tuner even if subsequent recording are on same channel. So what it does is stop one recording and immediately start recording on the one tuner which means the start of the next programme is left at the end of the initial recording. Panasonic twin tuner recorders (I have owned many) utilise both tuners regardless of which channel is being recorder. Whether or not it’s the same channel being recorded or not. This ensures the FULL programme is recorded at all times without the need to manually add time to the start and end.

    Also as far as I know the Panasonics also waits for a signal which comes in through the Aerial before it starts and stops recording. They do not rely on a schedule from an online guide like YouView!

    By utilising both tuners one for each and every programme being recorded regardless of channel and by using the Arial Signal you get a FULL recording 100% of the time.

    Hope this helps somehow
  • edited 26 September 2013, 7:33AM
    The way you describe is actually a very poor way of doing it as it means the viewer can't watch live TV on another channel towards the end of their first recording and start of their second because both tuners are reserved for back to back recordings.

    The fact that Panasonic has implemented a poor way of using the tuners is no reason for anyone else to copy.

    Besides, recordings are currently being clipped even if nothing else is recording air being watched on the second tuner so this will solve nothing anyway.
  • Ryan1Ryan1 Posts: 29Member
    edited 16 May 2014, 6:28PM
    Its clear judging by your response that you have never used a Proper Mainstream Expensive Brand that actually works very, very well and in the 10 years of using Panasonic Recorders I have never missed the beginning or end of one programme.

    On rare occasions I do end up in the situation you have described but that’s very quicky solved by hitting the TV button or in the case of YouView Remote AV button to change viewing to TV on the channel you where initially watching.

    AND anyway if the unit is recording 2 channels wouldn’t you have the same situation? So your post is somewhat contradictory because Recording one Channel or 2 results in the locking of channels and you have to resort to your TV until ONE recording has finished.
  • Ian2Ian2 Posts: 45Member
    edited 9 October 2012, 7:33AM
    Martin1 said:

    The way you describe is actually a very poor way of doing it as it means the viewer can't watch live TV on another channel towards the end of their first recording and start of their second because both tuners are reserved for back to back recordings.

    The fact that Panasonic has implemented a poor way of using the tuners is no reason for anyone else to copy.

    Besides, recordings are currently being clipped even if nothing else is recording air being watched on the second tuner so this will solve nothing anyway.

    Sorry what is this "live TV" you refer to ? Ever since getting TiVo in 2000 never used "live TV", no need to, I always watching something I want when I want that I have recorded.

    Surely the purpose of a YouView recorder is to record, not watch "live TV". Anyway if you are really desperate enough to watch "live TV" thats what the tuner in the TV is for.
  • edited 9 October 2012, 7:38AM
    Martin1 said:

    The way you describe is actually a very poor way of doing it as it means the viewer can't watch live TV on another channel towards the end of their first recording and start of their second because both tuners are reserved for back to back recordings.

    The fact that Panasonic has implemented a poor way of using the tuners is no reason for anyone else to copy.

    Besides, recordings are currently being clipped even if nothing else is recording air being watched on the second tuner so this will solve nothing anyway.

    Hi Ian

    The purpose of YouView is to let you watch what you want when you want, there's no obligation to do it all from recordings.

    People are free to use their box how they want. If you want to record everything than that's your right, others are entitled watch live channels via their box. There's no right or approved way. It's what works for each user that matters.

    The same kind of 'you're not allowed to watch live TV L0005ER!!!!" mentality is rife on the Virgin Media TiVo forum. I hope that's the last time this forum has someone try dictating how others should use their box.
  • edited 26 September 2013, 7:33AM
    Ryan dear,

    I've used a wide number of records, some for many years, including those you'd consider "Proper Mainstream Expensive Brand" and none are 100% reliable.

    >> On rare occasions I do end up in the situation you have described but that’s very quicky solved by hitting the TV button or in the case of YouView Remote AV button to change viewing to TV on the channel you where initially watching.

    And? Not everyone has a TV with a digital tuner. Stop making the mistake of thinking your set up is typical of everyone else's. There are people using YouView - some even posting on this forum - who use older CRT TVs which lack a DTT tuner.

    >> AND anyway if the unit is recording 2 channels wouldn’t you have the same situation?

    It's an unavoidable limitation when recording programmes on two channels but why limit the box's usability so that even back to back recordings tie up both tuners?

    >> So your post is somewhat contradictory because Recording one Channel or 2 results in the locking of channels and you have to resort to your TV until ONE recording has finished.

    Nothing contradictory in either post. Using both tuners to record back to back recordings on the same channel would pointlessly tie up tuners and limit the user's ability to enjoy their box and watch TV.
  • Ian2Ian2 Posts: 45Member
    edited 9 October 2012, 7:48AM
    Martin1 said:

    The way you describe is actually a very poor way of doing it as it means the viewer can't watch live TV on another channel towards the end of their first recording and start of their second because both tuners are reserved for back to back recordings.

    The fact that Panasonic has implemented a poor way of using the tuners is no reason for anyone else to copy.

    Besides, recordings are currently being clipped even if nothing else is recording air being watched on the second tuner so this will solve nothing anyway.

    Ok fine point.

    Still doesn't help the fact that out of all the boxes I have and have used YouView is the only box that regularly misses beginnings and ends of programmes, making recordings rather useless. Both my TiVo and Humax FreeSat seem to cope OK and don't remember the last time beginning or end of a recording was missing.
  • edited 9 October 2012, 7:58AM
    Martin1 said:

    The way you describe is actually a very poor way of doing it as it means the viewer can't watch live TV on another channel towards the end of their first recording and start of their second because both tuners are reserved for back to back recordings.

    The fact that Panasonic has implemented a poor way of using the tuners is no reason for anyone else to copy.

    Besides, recordings are currently being clipped even if nothing else is recording air being watched on the second tuner so this will solve nothing anyway.

    Sure and this needs fixing, though if I understand this post of yours correctly, the TiVo only stopped missing bits of shows when a 3rd party cobbled together some code.

    YouView say they're working on this, I'm as keen as anyone not to miss parts of shows. I sat through Homeland and the box missed what I suspect was just a minute or two from the end.

    VERY annoying.

    Sure, I could sit through the on demand version (if available) but that means sitting through unskippable adverts, so I'm having to record a repeat showing and FFWD through to the point I saw up to.

    Of course it's not idea and it's right to press YouView and broadcasters for a solution - in the case of broadcasters to start their shows on time.
  • Ian2Ian2 Posts: 45Member
    edited 9 October 2012, 8:09AM
    Martin1 said:

    The way you describe is actually a very poor way of doing it as it means the viewer can't watch live TV on another channel towards the end of their first recording and start of their second because both tuners are reserved for back to back recordings.

    The fact that Panasonic has implemented a poor way of using the tuners is no reason for anyone else to copy.

    Besides, recordings are currently being clipped even if nothing else is recording air being watched on the second tuner so this will solve nothing anyway.

    >>Sure and this needs fixing, though if I understand this post of yours correctly,
    >>the TiVo only stopped missing bits of shows when a 3rd party cobbled >>together some code.

    Not quite. The TiVo always (at least from about 2002 onwards) had padding on both series and individual programmes. However it was hard padding, which automatically cancelled the following (or previous) recording in order to extend the current recording. What was skillfully written in about 2004 (certainly not cobbled) was soft padding, which automatically extended a recording if possible without cancelling any recordings.

    I use/used the soft padding all the time, generally +5 minutes at the end covered everything, but have hard padding of +15 miniutes on Casualty and +1 hour on Forumula 1 as these often are late or overun.
  • edited 9 October 2012, 8:25AM
    Martin1 said:

    The way you describe is actually a very poor way of doing it as it means the viewer can't watch live TV on another channel towards the end of their first recording and start of their second because both tuners are reserved for back to back recordings.

    The fact that Panasonic has implemented a poor way of using the tuners is no reason for anyone else to copy.

    Besides, recordings are currently being clipped even if nothing else is recording air being watched on the second tuner so this will solve nothing anyway.

    Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification.

    Soft padding is certainly my preferred option. Getting it right is an artform and I'd rather YV not rush a fix out the door that then causes other issues.
  • craghoppercraghopper Posts: 28Member
    edited 16 May 2014, 6:28PM
    Question for someone who understands the technical stuff: how does the BT Vision box manage this stuff? Is it automatic padding of the recording time window, integrated into the recording software? I'm sure that the Vision box doesn't qualify as "high end" or expensive but the record functions always worked for me. I used the Vision box to record at least three films every week. I always used the EPG to set the recording in advance but never missed the beginning or end of the film. This is one-touch recording with no manual padding. I'd far rather fast forward through a couple of minutes of the preceding programme or adverts than miss the crucial opening of a film. As BT is a major partner in Youview, why not share the design?
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