Aspect ratio of 4:3 shown on 16:9

MadcottoMadcotto Member Posts: 580 ✭✭
edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM in Archived Posts
This may upset many but i rather hate that 4:3 programs are forced on me in the correct ratio and im unable to stretch them to fit the 16:9.

i understand that many people complane about stretched 4:3 programming and i understand why.

but id like the option to choose from the box how this content is displayed and ofcorse this makes everyone happy.

i know im not alone in that this bugs me to see these sidebars. i dont notice the distortion if stretched but do always notice the bars

now hides from the flack for this post lol
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Comments

  • CiceroCicero Member Posts: 345
    edited 28 October 2013, 9:07AM
    No flack from me, I know the purists complain about stretching 4:3 programmes but I agree with you about being bugged by the bars but not by the distortion.
  • SoniclifeSoniclife Member Posts: 23
    edited 5 November 2013, 8:40PM
    Is this not something your TV should do? I assume that via HDMI the box puts out the correct signal and flags the content as 4:3, leaving it up to the TV to do what it's set to. If however the box is putting out 4:3 in a 16:9 frame and flagging it as 16:9 then the TV has no chance, and it should be changed, with an option to keep things are they are currently.

    Personally I am glad the aspect ratios are correct out of the box, so many TVs want to force a mangled compromise on you with the default settings and make it unintuitive how to fix it.
  • MadcottoMadcotto Member Posts: 580 ✭✭
    edited 15 July 2013, 6:42PM
    No this not a tv thing my old box did it without question, a tv carnt change the hdmi ratio so this have be done at scorce, i also know this happens on sky.

    having said that about hdmi signal i relise my old box was connected with hdmi so im not sure what the problemn is
  • Alan DavisAlan Davis Member Posts: 1
    edited 26 March 2013, 1:15PM
    I agree. Most tv's will provide a 4:3 stretch mode, but the problem is that when stretched this causes problems with the guide being displayed wrongly. Making the yv box do the stretching should solve this.
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭
    edited 5 March 2017, 2:28PM
    It seems that Youview don't like to offer a choice as it makes support and setup more difficult. There are many things in the box that Youview have chosen a way to do it and I would prefer another way but without a 'preferences menu' we cannot customise our Youview boxes.

    As they haven't enabled a choice for 4:3 material, at least they have chosen the "correct" output. In the past Humax chose the other option and got blasted on the forums.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,530 ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    The YouView box outputs 16:9 currently, no matter what, so 4:3 gets output as 12:9 with a 2:9 black bar each side.

    You'd think Zoom might address this, if you wanted wide people on your TV, but it doesn't :-(
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Michael NMichael N Member Posts: 14
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    Sometime it's the broadcasters who output an old 4;3 programme in a 16:9 window and not the fault of the Youview box. I think some old episodes of 'Columbo' and 'Murder She Wrote' are transmitted on ITV1 HD as a 4:3 window in a 16:9 frame. Hence the Youview box would not auto-switch your TV in this case as it thinks it is receiving a 16:9 programme. ( I have watched the same episode of 'Columbo' on ITV1 HD as a 4:3 window with black bars at the sides in a 16:9 frame, and then later switched to ITV+1 to see the same episode transmitted in SD in its original 4:3 aspect ratio which my Panasonic TV 'stretches' to fit the screen with no black bars visible.)
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,530 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:38AM
    Michael N said:

    Sometime it's the broadcasters who output an old 4;3 programme in a 16:9 window and not the fault of the Youview box. I think some old episodes of 'Columbo' and 'Murder She Wrote' are transmitted on ITV1 HD as a 4:3 window in a 16:9 frame. Hence the Youview box would not auto-switch your TV in this case as it thinks it is receiving a 16:9 programme. ( I have watched the same episode of 'Columbo' on ITV1 HD as a 4:3 window with black bars at the sides in a 16:9 frame, and then later switched to ITV+1 to see the same episode transmitted in SD in its original 4:3 aspect ratio which my Panasonic TV 'stretches' to fit the screen with no black bars visible.)

    Indeed so.

    But if you had watched or recorded that ITV+1 episode on a YouView box, you would have seen it unstretched with black bars, and had no option to see it stretched without.

    Why anyone would want it displayed incorrectly is beyond me, but I'm all for freedom of choice for black-bar haters, I suppose.

    Hmmm - wonder if we could get Youview to show a big thick fake bezel instead of the black bars? :-)
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Geraint MorrisGeraint Morris Member Posts: 772
    edited 14 November 2012, 2:51PM
    Michael N said:

    Sometime it's the broadcasters who output an old 4;3 programme in a 16:9 window and not the fault of the Youview box. I think some old episodes of 'Columbo' and 'Murder She Wrote' are transmitted on ITV1 HD as a 4:3 window in a 16:9 frame. Hence the Youview box would not auto-switch your TV in this case as it thinks it is receiving a 16:9 programme. ( I have watched the same episode of 'Columbo' on ITV1 HD as a 4:3 window with black bars at the sides in a 16:9 frame, and then later switched to ITV+1 to see the same episode transmitted in SD in its original 4:3 aspect ratio which my Panasonic TV 'stretches' to fit the screen with no black bars visible.)

    Or some nice maroon curtains maybe?
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,530 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:38AM
    Michael N said:

    Sometime it's the broadcasters who output an old 4;3 programme in a 16:9 window and not the fault of the Youview box. I think some old episodes of 'Columbo' and 'Murder She Wrote' are transmitted on ITV1 HD as a 4:3 window in a 16:9 frame. Hence the Youview box would not auto-switch your TV in this case as it thinks it is receiving a 16:9 programme. ( I have watched the same episode of 'Columbo' on ITV1 HD as a 4:3 window with black bars at the sides in a 16:9 frame, and then later switched to ITV+1 to see the same episode transmitted in SD in its original 4:3 aspect ratio which my Panasonic TV 'stretches' to fit the screen with no black bars visible.)

    @Geraint

    Good idea. That's what they used to do in cinemas when showing some TOBWIT before pulling them back for the main Cinemascope feature
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Stephen McinallyStephen Mcinally Member Posts: 4
    edited 10 December 2012, 6:49PM
    Do people see a 4.3 aspect when for example watching Russia Today?
    I contacted YV teck support and they say will be resolved by future updates
  • DentonDenton Member Posts: 4
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    Can we also have a button to distort the pitch of the audio, so that everyone sounds like Mickey Mouse? I hate that YouView and the broadcasters force me to listen to sound that's correct.... and don't get me started on those old programmes where people's faces are the correct shape.
  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 12 January 2013, 10:51AM
    Denton said:

    Can we also have a button to distort the pitch of the audio, so that everyone sounds like Mickey Mouse? I hate that YouView and the broadcasters force me to listen to sound that's correct.... and don't get me started on those old programmes where people's faces are the correct shape.

    That some PVRs do exactly this on FF rather than mute is a pet annoyance of mine.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,530 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:38AM
    Denton said:

    Can we also have a button to distort the pitch of the audio, so that everyone sounds like Mickey Mouse? I hate that YouView and the broadcasters force me to listen to sound that's correct.... and don't get me started on those old programmes where people's faces are the correct shape.

    And footie is so much better when played with a rugger ball....
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Member, Super User Posts: 864 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 November 2016, 11:55AM
    Denton said:

    Can we also have a button to distort the pitch of the audio, so that everyone sounds like Mickey Mouse? I hate that YouView and the broadcasters force me to listen to sound that's correct.... and don't get me started on those old programmes where people's faces are the correct shape.

    An appropriate comment to end this thread on I think Roy.

    There's some people on the pitch .... they think it's all over ...........
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • MadcottoMadcotto Member Posts: 580 ✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    there quite a few people on this subject that should click and join this link:

    http://communist-party.org.uk/
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,530 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:38AM
    Madcotto said:

    there quite a few people on this subject that should click and join this link:

    http://communist-party.org.uk/

    From the Community Terms of Use:-

    Political and religious discussions are not allowed on this website. If it is believed that the end result of a discussion will be political or religious, the post may be removed. Likewise, strong political and religious sentiments should be kept out of profiles, signatures, and other content.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • MadcottoMadcotto Member Posts: 580 ✭✭
    edited 14 January 2013, 2:38AM
    Madcotto said:

    there quite a few people on this subject that should click and join this link:

    http://communist-party.org.uk/

    meh as it was a joke im happy to say it should stay within them guidelines.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,530 ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    Like the Big-Endians and Little-Endians in Swift's "Gulliver's Travels", we seem to be dividing into two camps here.

    So we can make our allegiances clear, I've devised button badges that we can wear to declare them.

    Obviously, only one of them is round :-)

    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • bbstrikesagainbbstrikesagain Member Posts: 48
    edited 27 March 2013, 11:12PM
    Soniclife said:

    Is this not something your TV should do? I assume that via HDMI the box puts out the correct signal and flags the content as 4:3, leaving it up to the TV to do what it's set to. If however the box is putting out 4:3 in a 16:9 frame and flagging it as 16:9 then the TV has no chance, and it should be changed, with an option to keep things are they are currently.

    Personally I am glad the aspect ratios are correct out of the box, so many TVs want to force a mangled compromise on you with the default settings and make it unintuitive how to fix it.

    I think you assume wrong. So far the YV box adds the sidebars to the 4:3 content, overlays any OSD contents and the outputs the whole thing flagged as 16:9. This as you say means the TV has no chance, and yes it should be changed.
  • bbstrikesagainbbstrikesagain Member Posts: 48
    edited 26 March 2013, 1:15PM

    I agree. Most tv's will provide a 4:3 stretch mode, but the problem is that when stretched this causes problems with the guide being displayed wrongly. Making the yv box do the stretching should solve this.

    Absolutely, like an decent STB the YV box should fit it's menus to the video format, not the other way around, or it should at least include options..
  • bbstrikesagainbbstrikesagain Member Posts: 48
    edited 5 March 2017, 2:28PM
    Example from plasma TV user manual:



    This is as per TQB0E2264.pdf user manual for P-TX50VT50(/55/65)VT50B available at www.panasonic.co.uk, but doubtless other plasma manuals have similar warnings.

    As far as I know no other STB, except YV, forces users to ignore this advice and run the gauntlet with respect to image retention if they want to watch 4:3 content. No other box I've encountered insists on padding out 4:3 as if it were 16:9 with no options to send it as-is, or zoomed/stretched.

    The YV platform should be improved to output 4:3 (or any other aspect ratio) as-is, and simply scale its own menus and OSD to fit. Ideally it could offer sidebars, letterbox, zoom, shift, distorted ("smart") zoom too, and it could allow free choice of colour for any unused areas - not just black.

    As I see it the YV boxes are not (yet) fully compatible with, and should not be recommended for use with, plasma TVs.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,530 ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    I think the YV box should have a setting whereby you can choose to have 'Always 16:9' as at present, or 'As Received' (and may be even 'Always 4:3', which would put black bars above and below 16:9 transmissions, though I think there was only ever one person with an old 4:3 only TV who would benefit from this).

    I'm not sure it would be the job of the YV box to do all of the other fiddle-faddles for dealing with legacy programming; just not to get in the way of the TV doing them if that is what the user wanted.

    This would then avoid odious comparisons of the 'my TV does stretchyvision better than the YV box does' ilk, and so on.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • bbstrikesagainbbstrikesagain Member Posts: 48
    edited 26 March 2013, 3:18PM
    Denton said:

    Can we also have a button to distort the pitch of the audio, so that everyone sounds like Mickey Mouse? I hate that YouView and the broadcasters force me to listen to sound that's correct.... and don't get me started on those old programmes where people's faces are the correct shape.

    Denton, perhaps you'd like your stereo sound to be narrowed to make room for added silence to either side, in the channels designed to surround us rather than just present a stereo image? The YV box could process stereo into 3.1 sent as 5.1 with a few dB less left and right and a mix of L+R pumped down the centre channel to maintain the relative narrowness of the original stereo image? Nonsense?

    That the YV box chooses to add, without option, black content to either side of 4:3 content, and re-encode it just as if it were originally included as a dark blackboard to either side within a 16:9 shot shot, is no less ridiculous.

    I'm sure it was easier to code that way, but that's no excuse.

    Any sidebars should be at the viewers discretion. The customer is always right, (regardless whichever badge he might wear).
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 December 2016, 12:01PM

    Example from plasma TV user manual:



    This is as per TQB0E2264.pdf user manual for P-TX50VT50(/55/65)VT50B available at www.panasonic.co.uk, but doubtless other plasma manuals have similar warnings.

    As far as I know no other STB, except YV, forces users to ignore this advice and run the gauntlet with respect to image retention if they want to watch 4:3 content. No other box I've encountered insists on padding out 4:3 as if it were 16:9 with no options to send it as-is, or zoomed/stretched.

    The YV platform should be improved to output 4:3 (or any other aspect ratio) as-is, and simply scale its own menus and OSD to fit. Ideally it could offer sidebars, letterbox, zoom, shift, distorted ("smart") zoom too, and it could allow free choice of colour for any unused areas - not just black.

    As I see it the YV boxes are not (yet) fully compatible with, and should not be recommended for use with, plasma TVs.

    If you're talking about BBC then the YV box does output "as-is". The sidebars are included in the broadcast.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 February 2017, 3:05PM
    As I see it the YV boxes are not (yet) fully compatible with, and should not be recommended for use with, plasma TVs.
    By that token, any channel which transmits with a DOG is ruinous for plasma screens.
    As far as I know no other STB, except YV, forces users to ignore this advice and run the gauntlet with respect to image retention if they want to watch 4:3 content.
    I have just checked the menus on my Sky+ HD box (arguably the most commom STB out there?) and can't find a setting for this, can you advise?
  • Geraint MorrisGeraint Morris Member Posts: 772
    edited 26 March 2013, 5:01PM
    redchiz said:

    As I see it the YV boxes are not (yet) fully compatible with, and should not be recommended for use with, plasma TVs.
    By that token, any channel which transmits with a DOG is ruinous for plasma screens.
    As far as I know no other STB, except YV, forces users to ignore this advice and run the gauntlet with respect to image retention if they want to watch 4:3 content.
    I have just checked the menus on my Sky+ HD box (arguably the most commom STB out there?) and can't find a setting for this, can you advise?As far as I can remember the Sky HD box would only set the display ratio correctly if it's output resolution was set to Auto, rather than 1080i or whatever.

    Even then I don't think it is 100% reliable. I believe 4:3 and 16:9 are set correctly on the SCART output
  • bbstrikesagainbbstrikesagain Member Posts: 48
    edited 26 March 2013, 5:03PM

    Example from plasma TV user manual:



    This is as per TQB0E2264.pdf user manual for P-TX50VT50(/55/65)VT50B available at www.panasonic.co.uk, but doubtless other plasma manuals have similar warnings.

    As far as I know no other STB, except YV, forces users to ignore this advice and run the gauntlet with respect to image retention if they want to watch 4:3 content. No other box I've encountered insists on padding out 4:3 as if it were 16:9 with no options to send it as-is, or zoomed/stretched.

    The YV platform should be improved to output 4:3 (or any other aspect ratio) as-is, and simply scale its own menus and OSD to fit. Ideally it could offer sidebars, letterbox, zoom, shift, distorted ("smart") zoom too, and it could allow free choice of colour for any unused areas - not just black.

    As I see it the YV boxes are not (yet) fully compatible with, and should not be recommended for use with, plasma TVs.

    Yes, I know some broadcasts do that. Many TVs will recognise that off-air and still support various size and aspect ratio renderings, so sidebars can be stripped. The problem is that TV's won't generally offer this off HDMI. Why should they? After all the actual 4:3 could be automatically relieved of sidebars, or resized according to user preferences applied to the off-air box - except of course as yet YV boxes can't...

    By the way, in this special case, content with already embedded sidebars, some other STB/TV combinations have the same problems. Wouldn't it be great if YV was the smartest of the smart, and was good as watching directly on your telly?

    The YV box could recognise and solve this "problem" too.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 1:57PM
    redchiz said:

    As I see it the YV boxes are not (yet) fully compatible with, and should not be recommended for use with, plasma TVs.
    By that token, any channel which transmits with a DOG is ruinous for plasma screens.
    As far as I know no other STB, except YV, forces users to ignore this advice and run the gauntlet with respect to image retention if they want to watch 4:3 content.
    I have just checked the menus on my Sky+ HD box (arguably the most commom STB out there?) and can't find a setting for this, can you advise?Nothing like those options on my menus, perhaps they are no longer deemed necessary by Sky and have been removed by f/w updates? Perhaps there was a hue and cry on the Sky forums? Who knows?
  • Geraint MorrisGeraint Morris Member Posts: 772
    edited 26 March 2013, 5:18PM
    redchiz said:

    As I see it the YV boxes are not (yet) fully compatible with, and should not be recommended for use with, plasma TVs.
    By that token, any channel which transmits with a DOG is ruinous for plasma screens.
    As far as I know no other STB, except YV, forces users to ignore this advice and run the gauntlet with respect to image retention if they want to watch 4:3 content.
    I have just checked the menus on my Sky+ HD box (arguably the most commom STB out there?) and can't find a setting for this, can you advise?Used to look like this:

    image

    Now it should be something like this:

    image
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