Dropped frames or jerky video on BBC One HD

Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
edited 5 March 2017, 1:28PM in Archived Posts
I have only today had my Huawei box installed by TalkTalk.

Watching Strictly Come Dancing and then Merlin I noticed that the video was slightly jerky at times as if frames were being dropped.

Is this normal for Freeview HD and / or on the programming tonight? Could this be an issue with the Huawei box that would be better on Humax or an issue with Youview itself?

My signal is 96% and quaity 96% - not noticed any problems up to now on my other Freeview SD boxes - though there were a couple of slight break-ups in picture for a second or two may be caused by interference when cars were passing. The jerkiness or dropped frames are happening all the time.

I wondered if changing screen resolution might help, but there appears to be no way to do that on the Huawei box.

The signal is passing through the same (Onkyo) AV amp as my Freesat HD box - I've never noticed any dropped frames when using Freesat.

Hopefully Strictly is recorded on my Freesat HD box, if so I'll try to compare - can't a the moment as otherwise I'll lose Merlin - another issue caused by the fact you can't record from the beginning of the pause buffer.

Comments

  • TechnogranTechnogran Member Posts: 152
    edited 7 October 2012, 5:38AM
    Your signal strength seems quite high and it could be that you might have too strong a signal, needing an attenuator fitting. Different units deal with strong signals differently.
  • paul1paul1 Member Posts: 5
    edited 7 October 2012, 7:19AM
    It is a youview software issue, my yv box plays hd very jerkily too with lots of strobing & steppyness, it's rubbish SD playback is better on the YV - if I want to watch in HD I try to use the TV tuner on my samsung which is very smooth just like TV used to be before we were ripped off with 'digital TV' with it's rubbish pixelly jerky picture.
    YV could fix this with smoother software for the HD channels but I doubt if the processor is fast enough.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 7 October 2012, 7:50AM

    Your signal strength seems quite high and it could be that you might have too strong a signal, needing an attenuator fitting. Different units deal with strong signals differently.

    Thanks I was wondering about that regarding picture break-up - but given my setup I'm thinking more along the lines of interference being picked up by a sensitive tuner. Do you know if using a splitter that reduced the signal by 6dB would effectively be attenuating the signal without having to buy a separate attenuator until I've proved the idea works?

    I'm wouldn't expect this to help with dropped frames though?
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 7 October 2012, 7:52AM
    Yes, I'm worried about that possibility too - I'm so picky though - its only a very slight problem but once I notice things it tends to really spoil my viewing!

    I hope Youview can advise on this matter.

    I did notice last night though that the problem seemed much worse on Strictly than on Merlin - so there might be a broadcast issue - I must find time to directly compare with my Freesat HD devices ...
  • SoniclifeSoniclife Member Posts: 23
    edited 5 November 2013, 7:40PM
    I noticed slight jerkiness once when I turned the ariel passthrough boost on, never had it with it turned off. My signal levels are 100 / 96.
  • TechnogranTechnogran Member Posts: 152
    edited 7 October 2012, 12:30PM
    Which rather goes to prove that a very strong signal can be the cause of what you are describing. Some PVR's and boxes can seem to get rather 'overloaded' especially if they have a very sensitive tuner on board.
    An attenuator would help to solve it.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 7 October 2012, 1:17PM
    Soniclife said:

    I noticed slight jerkiness once when I turned the ariel passthrough boost on, never had it with it turned off. My signal levels are 100 / 96.

    RF loop through is off for me so that's not the cause for me.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 7 October 2012, 1:18PM

    Which rather goes to prove that a very strong signal can be the cause of what you are describing. Some PVR's and boxes can seem to get rather 'overloaded' especially if they have a very sensitive tuner on board.
    An attenuator would help to solve it.

    Does it have to be an attenuator for testing purposes, would a splitter that will halve the signal possibly help?
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 7 October 2012, 7:13PM
    I'll need to check regarding the signal - I've noticed this problem is happening on SD channels too - only looked up for a few seconds today to watch TV and noticed the problem each time.

    Surely the box should be able to cope with a good signal though if that is the cause!

    What I have done is compared with the same Strictly Come Dancing recorded on HD Freesat. Towards the end of the first couple dancing, the camera does a fast sweeping pan around the whole room. Its nice and smooth on Freesat - on my TalkTalk youview it is really bad - it looks almost like watching an old home movie where you can see the shutter flickering - very jerky indeed.

    I hope it's the signal, if not, I might have to ditch Youview unless its a fault with the TalkTalk box or my box in particular or unless this fault can be fixed.
  • RottyRotty Member Posts: 107
    edited 17 January 2017, 6:15PM
    Since you posted about 'jerkiness' I've been watching for it, as I used to get exactly this issue on all of my Topup TV PVR's. We have a honking signal off Wenvoe, but the way I have this distributed gives probably 9 or 12db attenuation. I haven't seen the issue at all, either on SD or HD on the HUMAX but not watched enough live TV on the Hauwei

    So, as a test, just watching that thing on BBC2 with Evan Davis, where there have been some good wide panning shots that would show this issue up really well, and there is no noticeable jerkiness or 'dropped frames' on the Humax. Just switched over the the Hauwei to watch the same prog on BBC HD (some cracking fly-over shots) and looking really hard I can't see any issues whatsoever.

    I'd suggest a variable attenuator which will allow you to wind the signal right down until you loose a viable stream, and then crank it up until it goes good and stable. Try http://www.maplin.co.uk/variable-aeri... which is cheap to experiment with.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 7 October 2012, 8:02PM
    Thanks for the test and advice - give me some hope - I'll try to apply some attenuation in other ways without spending, but if all else fails, I'll give the Maplin device a go.

    I do have at least 6db attenuation already, because my signal is split 3 ways - that has proved enough on one of my TVs to make one channel occasionally lose the signal - so I'm rather suprised about all this - that said, the cabling to the YouView box is much shorter than the other TVs, so I guess it will currently have the least attenuation.
  • RottyRotty Member Posts: 107
    edited 17 January 2017, 6:15PM
    It may not be high signal though ... But you should probably rule that out. I'm pretty sure the issue I had with my TopupTV boxes was a hardware or firmware issue, but despite being a beta tester for them, the issue was never taken on board, so I hope if it IS an issue with the box, it will get looked into.

    With the Topup boxes though, you never actually watched the truly live stream, it was always buffered to the HDD and then played out from there. This was where we believed the problem lay, but it doesn't appear that the YB box operates like this.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 8 October 2012, 8:15AM
    Done some tests this morning.

    Checked various channels - one had 56% signal and quality (Challenge TV) - the problem was still happening on there. ITV1 also had the problem.

    I then plugged the aerial cable into the Huawei box via two Y connectors in a row - would give about 8dB attenuation. That caused reception of Challenge TV to be entirely lost. The signal strength for ITV1 dropped from 100% to 76%, whilst quality remained at 92%. The problem still happened on ITV1.

    This suggests that the problem is not caused either by low signal strength or high signal strength. So unless the signal quality is misleading it would appear not to be caused by my signal / reception at all.

    Note - this was all on live TV, though the same happened when watching the same excerpt from the buffer. I also tried a different hdmi cable directly into my TV instead of via my AV amp, to rule out a problem with the cable (even though the cable never caused a problem with my Freesat HD), or some incompatability with my AV amp. The problem happened with all combinations of signal strength / attenuation, two hdmi cables and whether connected via my AV amp or not.

    I'm wondering if either there is a fault that does not affect everyone, or if my box could be faulty? Of course, many could have the fault without noticing - it is not very obvious unless there is a fast panning shot.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 8 October 2012, 7:13PM
    The problem seems far worse tonight, noticeable all the times on ITV1. I've tried many tests / changes nothing has resolved the problem - except one:

    Swapped TV from my 42" Plasma Hitatchi 42PD7200 (max 1080i) to a 1080p 32" Panasonic LCD model. The fast pan scene I recorded from Strictly Come Dancing is as smooth as silk now.

    I decided to check the output video signal from the Huawei Youview box. My AV receiver will not only tell me what signal it is receiving but also what it is sending to the TV. Its normally set at "through" which means the signal is passed through without any changes.

    The Freesat HD sends the following output to my Hitachi Plasma TV:
    1080i 50Hz RGB 24 Bit

    The Huawei Youview box sends this instead:
    1080i 60Hz YCbCr 24 Bit

    (A 1080p signal is sent to the Panaonic LCD TV.)

    I can't find any way to change the output from the Huawei Youview box. My AV Amp will change the resolution, for example to 720p, but not other signal parameters, and 720p does not fix the problem. So I can't find any way to workaround or fix this problem.

    Clearly this is a fault either in the output of the above signal by Youview or Huawei, or it is in the fact that the box is sending the wrong signal when "hand-shaking" with the TV. Clearly it could be fixed if Youview allowed the output signal to be changed. My guess is that the problem is caused by the fact the box is sending a 60Hz signal when it should be sending 50Hz.

    Any comments / advise / suggestions?

    Please can a Youview rep help here. Should this be referred to TalkTalk? Could the box be faulty - or will a fix be delivered by Youview?
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 9 October 2012, 6:01AM
    Some further thoughts:

    The HD picture also seems to be softened by the conversion from 50Hz to 60Hz, which make it appear lower resolution (ie no longer HD).

    It's a serious issue in my mind - I'm not getting the quality resolution and picture I have paid for. Unless a workaround or fix is confirmed soon, I may have to ditch Youview in favour of a product that can deliver a quality picture.

    Adding the ability to over-ride automatic settings for the resolution / signal sent to the TV would resolve this issue (though the bugs really needs resolving).

    There may be two bugs, one because it sends 60Hz in the first place, another in the poor picture conversion to 60Hz).
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭
    edited 5 March 2017, 1:28PM
    It sounds like a faulty box to me. Can you get it replaced?
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 10 October 2012, 8:49AM
    Can a Youview rep help with this please?

    Actually I do not believe the box is faulty given that it works fine on my Panasonic TV (32" though instead of 42") - I believe the design of handling of screen resolution and / or video formats is faulty - but I could be wrong.

    Does anyone else have a Hitachi 42PD7200 that can check for me?
  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 17 January 2017, 6:15PM
    To be fair Hitachi are not really that well regarded when it comes to their TV sets. It takes two to tango when negotiating the screen resolution and video format.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 10 October 2012, 6:56PM
    gomez said:

    To be fair Hitachi are not really that well regarded when it comes to their TV sets. It takes two to tango when negotiating the screen resolution and video format.

    I don't actually think this problem is caused by the Hitachi TV - unless since the Hitachi was designed during the early days of HD capable panels the standards for Handshaking between devices to determine the best display settings has changed

    Unlike most Hitachi TVs (which normally I avoid) this one actually received very good reviews considering the price, in fact to get significantly better at the time I'd have needed to pay an extra £1000.
  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 10 October 2012, 8:42PM
    gomez said:

    To be fair Hitachi are not really that well regarded when it comes to their TV sets. It takes two to tango when negotiating the screen resolution and video format.

    Less a question of the standard changing as some companies having their own unique interpretation. Even the mighty Sony and Panasonic have fallen foul of this.
  • RottyRotty Member Posts: 107
    edited 10 October 2012, 8:58PM
    gomez said:

    To be fair Hitachi are not really that well regarded when it comes to their TV sets. It takes two to tango when negotiating the screen resolution and video format.

    Even the mighty Sony and Panasonic have fallen foul of this.

    Yup. I had to 'bin' a perfectly good DVD player that just would not negotiate the audio over hdmi with my brand new Sony Bravia ... DVD player worked fine on all other TV's but the Bravia just refused to accept it (obviously cheap tat). Sony customer services and technical were very obtuse and just told me to buy a Sony, so to ensure compatibility I ad to bite the bullet and do just that.

    HDMI is a bit like USB in the early days. Nice idea but not implemented the same across the board, and not very backward compatible.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 11 October 2012, 8:41AM
    TalkTalk hopefully will sort this out for me. Over on the TT forum:

    "It's possible that your box is set to an inappropriate display setting as you mentioned. That can't be changed on the box we need remote access to resolve it."

    Unfortunately there's an error in how my account has been set up they need to resolve before they can remotely access the box.

    I hear that there will be an update in October to allow people to change display settings - I hope that includes setting 50Hz / 60Hz. It's a pity this was not available on launch - it's rather key functionality given my experience here. It is also sometimes best to change the display settings to suit the content being viewed.

    Hope the October or early November release for Humax is quickly followed up with the corresponding release for Huawei via TalkTalk.

    Can Youview confirm if the next release will allow display settings to be changed by users, including in my case changing 1080i 60Hz to 1080i 50Hz; and will this be included in the subsequent corresponding TalkTalk release?
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