Channel 5 accurate recording

drhowellsdrhowells Posts: 633Member
edited 4 May 2017, 12:39AM in Archived Posts
Please can someone at YouView talk to Channel 5 about their rubbish use of the accurate record function? I have recorded numerous films on channel 5 recently which have a news broadcast in the middle of the film. The accurate recording is always messed up and if I hadn't recorded the news broadcast as well, I would miss about 4 minutes from the middle of the film.
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Comments

  • gomezgomez Posts: 2,073Member ✭✭
    edited 10 March 2017, 12:54AM
    It is not a rubbish use of accurate recording. Five (the home of The Gadget Show, let us not forget) does not use accurate recording ... at all.
  • drhowellsdrhowells Posts: 633Member
    edited 20 December 2016, 6:21PM
    gomez said:

    It is not a rubbish use of accurate recording. Five (the home of The Gadget Show, let us not forget) does not use accurate recording ... at all.

    That would explain it :) In that case, can someone at YouView tell Channel 5 to use it!!!!! :)
  • SW1SW1 Posts: 240Member
    edited 15 November 2012, 8:40AM
    gomez said:

    It is not a rubbish use of accurate recording. Five (the home of The Gadget Show, let us not forget) does not use accurate recording ... at all.

    We wish they would. Search over on the digitalspy forum for discussion about accurate recording on C5, from many years back, C5 stated they are just beta trialing the use or AR. It has not gotten better.
  • Jesse1Jesse1 Posts: 275Member
    edited 10 March 2017, 12:54AM
    Hi drhowells. Thanks for your post but unfortunately we can’t help you on this one. In order to resolve your issue please contact Channel 5 as it is better placed to help you out. You can find the contact details here http://www.youview.com/support/kb/use...
  • drhowellsdrhowells Posts: 633Member
    edited 20 December 2016, 6:21PM
    Jesse1 said:

    Hi drhowells. Thanks for your post but unfortunately we can’t help you on this one. In order to resolve your issue please contact Channel 5 as it is better placed to help you out. You can find the contact details here http://www.youview.com/support/kb/use...

    Hi Jesse, thanks for the reply, but after some thought, I have to admit that I am a bit disappointed by it. I understand that the problem originates from Five, but the YouView software is designed to use the accurate record system and offers no way to manually get around it, so YouView need to take a little responsibility or provide a work around. As Five are partners in YouView, it would be nice if this was at least brought up with them internally, because it is spoiling my perspective of the YouView box, even though it is not really YouViews fault and I doubt I am the only one. There will be many people out there, less informed than me, who will just assume it is a problem with the box.
  • [removed][removed] Posts: 282Member
    edited 26 February 2017, 2:39PM
    I agree with drhowells this is a cop out reply from YV. It really is time for YV to grow a pair and tell their partners what is requiered of them.
  • Geraint MorrisGeraint Morris Posts: 772Member
    edited 15 November 2012, 7:33PM
    [removed] said:

    I agree with drhowells this is a cop out reply from YV. It really is time for YV to grow a pair and tell their partners what is requiered of them.

    Like that's going to happen
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,886Member ✭✭✭
    edited 22 December 2016, 12:04AM
    [removed] said:

    I agree with drhowells this is a cop out reply from YV. It really is time for YV to grow a pair and tell their partners what is requiered of them.

    Why Andy, I actually agree with you! lol. As even ITV have gotten their asses into gear, by developing a new beta player, to address their problems. So it's about time CH5 did too.
  • edited 26 September 2013, 8:33AM
    Why are people assuming YouView aren't telling their partners of their failings?
  • PiersPiers Posts: 561Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 23 February 2017, 2:13PM
    Martin - thanks, and yes you're right - we do talk to all our partners on a regular basis about a number of issues (including this one).

    Everyone - this problem does affect a lot of Freeview+ boxes (even those with padding sometimes), as well as YouView boxes but there's not a quick fix that we know of. If anything can be done, we'll let you know here.

    Jesse's post may not have explained the situation fully :) Apologies for the inconvenience.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,886Member ✭✭✭
    edited 26 February 2017, 2:39PM
    @Piers

    Thanks for the honest answer. Posted in a very diplomatic way. lol
  • edited 17 November 2013, 7:05PM
    Just to tag on with this example of AR working exactly as it should:

    http://community.youview.com/youview/...
  • iSPYiSPY Posts: 166Member
    edited 16 November 2012, 9:07AM
    Martin1 said:

    Just to tag on with this example of AR working exactly as it should:

    http://community.youview.com/youview/...

    AR does work, but that Link is not really relevant as this Thread is about Channel 5 not working.
  • edited 25 April 2013, 7:34PM
    Martin1 said:

    Just to tag on with this example of AR working exactly as it should:

    http://community.youview.com/youview/...

    It was posted as an example of how well it can work, therefore it's entirely relevant.
  • Geraint MorrisGeraint Morris Posts: 772Member
    edited 16 November 2012, 12:24AM
    Martin1 said:

    Just to tag on with this example of AR working exactly as it should:

    http://community.youview.com/youview/...

    Of course AR works if the broadcasters play ball. The reality is that not all broadcasters on Freeview do, and that's where relying on it falls down.
  • Chris__M1Chris__M1 Posts: 136Member
    edited 16 November 2012, 1:35PM
    Whether AR works well or not is pretty irrelevent, because - as noted up-thread - Channel 5 does not use AR.

    My understanding is that if AR is not used, YouView defaults to using the schedule time, which is not always accurate.

    Which is why we need padding, or a manual way of setting/editing recordings.

    What would be wrong with this approach:

    1) If the channel being recorded provides AR, then that is used, without padding.

    2) If AR is not available, then when you record a show, you are given the option of adding padding: "The timing for this programme is taken from the schedule and may not be accurate. Do you with to pad the beginning and end of the programme?"

    Options could be provided to (a) Never ask; (b) Always ask (for non-AR channels) (c) Pad without asking.

    That way, those of us who want quick and dirty padding can have it, and will accept the risk of it causing recording clashes, while those who don't want padding have the option not to use it.
  • petkolpetkol Posts: 213Member
    edited 14 April 2017, 6:24PM
    Are Youview going to persist with this reliance on broadcasters to broadcast the correct triggers at the correct time?
    How many of the channels which can be received on the Youview box actually use this system?
    To have 100% confidence that we can rely on this system, we would need 100% of the channels to broadcast the correct triggers at the correct time for every program every day.

    Would anybody like to tell me when that situation will be achieved?

    While we wait for utopia, would it not be pragmatic to accept that the Youview platform needs to provide some additional options to enable it to achieve one of the most basic personal video recording tasks?.
  • johnnyshankjohnnyshank Posts: 60Member
    edited 20 March 2015, 5:01PM
    Jesse1 said:

    Hi drhowells. Thanks for your post but unfortunately we can’t help you on this one. In order to resolve your issue please contact Channel 5 as it is better placed to help you out. You can find the contact details here http://www.youview.com/support/kb/use...

    i am constantly losing the last 2 or 3 minute's of all my recording's on channel 5
  • Bob BoulbyBob Boulby Posts: 54Member
    edited 4 February 2017, 12:25PM
    I set Dirty Harry to record on Sunday evening. When I set the recording up the film was scheduled to start at 21:00 but later an extra half hour program about Larry Hagman was slotted in before it. The recording times were duly amended to start and finish half an hour later. So if Channel 5 don’t use Accurate Recording, how did this happen?

    Bob
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Posts: 737Member ✭✭✭
    edited 17 February 2017, 1:01PM
    Bob Boulby

    That's exactly how the YouView system works (you must get out of your head the concept that you are recording a time slot).

    You tell the STB what program you want to record and it will record that program even if it moves around in the schedule. This has nothing to do with the Accurate Record signal that some broadcasters send, which is used to start the recording a few seconds before the program is broadcast. If the broadcaster does not send AR signals then the box defaults to using the EPG info plus a little padding.

    This logic is also used to resolve recording conflicts - where the box will try and find another instance of the progam to record instead.

    All really clever stuff!
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • gomezgomez Posts: 2,073Member ✭✭
    edited 26 November 2012, 7:20PM
    To clarify, a change to the EPG will amend the start and end times of upcoming timers which is what happened here. This is different to Accurate Recording which uses flags in the broadcast stream to indicate when a programme actually starts and ends.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,886Member ✭✭✭
    edited 26 February 2017, 2:39PM
    So YouView uses a dynamic EPG. Like say when a football match overruns (eg extra time), the box will keep on recording it until it finishes. And the same with start times, too.
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Posts: 737Member ✭✭✭
    edited 28 November 2016, 11:55AM
    Visionman said:

    So YouView uses a dynamic EPG. Like say when a football match overruns (eg extra time), the box will keep on recording it until it finishes. And the same with start times, too.

    No that's not what I said
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • PiersPiers Posts: 561Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 23 February 2017, 2:13PM
    Hi all, just to clear up any possible confusion here:

    All recordings on YouView are started and stopped by signals from the broadcasters (it's called "EIT Present/Following information"), and not from timers. YouView boxes and most Freeview+ boxes work in broadly the same way, and it's often referred to as Accurate Recording.

    Some broadcasters run their EIT Present/Following signals from the systems that actually play each programme one after the other - so it's very accurate (when their systems are working correctly). BBC, ITV, C4 all do this.

    C5 doesn't use the same method as the other public service broadcasters, but they do send the start/stop signals using EIT present/following. In the case of Bob recording Dirty Harry, C5 updated the schedule in advance which also meant that the EIT Present/Following information was sent at the new updated times, and the YouView box knew when to start and stop.

    The YouView EPG and Miniguide use a combination of the EPG schedule start/finish time (that's the data that allows you to present the EPG grid for 7 days ahead), and some extra information that YouView collects e.g programme and series images, and this "realtime" EIT Present/Following information which tells you 'what's on now'.
  • gomezgomez Posts: 2,073Member ✭✭
    edited 26 November 2012, 8:45PM
    Visionman said:

    So YouView uses a dynamic EPG. Like say when a football match overruns (eg extra time), the box will keep on recording it until it finishes. And the same with start times, too.

    That is not what I said either.
  • Bob BoulbyBob Boulby Posts: 54Member
    edited 13 October 2016, 6:39PM
    Piers2 said:

    Hi all, just to clear up any possible confusion here:

    All recordings on YouView are started and stopped by signals from the broadcasters (it's called "EIT Present/Following information"), and not from timers. YouView boxes and most Freeview+ boxes work in broadly the same way, and it's often referred to as Accurate Recording.

    Some broadcasters run their EIT Present/Following signals from the systems that actually play each programme one after the other - so it's very accurate (when their systems are working correctly). BBC, ITV, C4 all do this.

    C5 doesn't use the same method as the other public service broadcasters, but they do send the start/stop signals using EIT present/following. In the case of Bob recording Dirty Harry, C5 updated the schedule in advance which also meant that the EIT Present/Following information was sent at the new updated times, and the YouView box knew when to start and stop.

    The YouView EPG and Miniguide use a combination of the EPG schedule start/finish time (that's the data that allows you to present the EPG grid for 7 days ahead), and some extra information that YouView collects e.g programme and series images, and this "realtime" EIT Present/Following information which tells you 'what's on now'.

    A nice, clear explanation Piers, thanks.

    Bob
  • Paul DickPaul Dick Posts: 2Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 2:27PM
    Piers2 said:

    Hi all, just to clear up any possible confusion here:

    All recordings on YouView are started and stopped by signals from the broadcasters (it's called "EIT Present/Following information"), and not from timers. YouView boxes and most Freeview+ boxes work in broadly the same way, and it's often referred to as Accurate Recording.

    Some broadcasters run their EIT Present/Following signals from the systems that actually play each programme one after the other - so it's very accurate (when their systems are working correctly). BBC, ITV, C4 all do this.

    C5 doesn't use the same method as the other public service broadcasters, but they do send the start/stop signals using EIT present/following. In the case of Bob recording Dirty Harry, C5 updated the schedule in advance which also meant that the EIT Present/Following information was sent at the new updated times, and the YouView box knew when to start and stop.

    The YouView EPG and Miniguide use a combination of the EPG schedule start/finish time (that's the data that allows you to present the EPG grid for 7 days ahead), and some extra information that YouView collects e.g programme and series images, and this "realtime" EIT Present/Following information which tells you 'what's on now'.

    Just moved from BT Vision Box to Humax Box yesterday and I can't believe how backward some of the options are. The searchable option is laughable and also the channel 5 problem never happened on the BT Vision Box. I lost the last 4 minutes of a program I was recording last night. This never happened on the BT Vision box. It must use the same system Piers mentions above but manages by some sort of common sense programming to get round this issue. By your admission above Piers you know there is a problem but refuse to do anything about it unlike the clever programmers at BT Vision. Maybe you could borrow them for an afternoon?
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 5:52PM
    Piers2 said:

    Martin - thanks, and yes you're right - we do talk to all our partners on a regular basis about a number of issues (including this one).

    Everyone - this problem does affect a lot of Freeview+ boxes (even those with padding sometimes), as well as YouView boxes but there's not a quick fix that we know of. If anything can be done, we'll let you know here.

    Jesse's post may not have explained the situation fully :) Apologies for the inconvenience.

    Piers, what's the point of posting the exact same message twice?
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 6:00PM
    Piers2 said:

    Hi all, just to clear up any possible confusion here:

    All recordings on YouView are started and stopped by signals from the broadcasters (it's called "EIT Present/Following information"), and not from timers. YouView boxes and most Freeview+ boxes work in broadly the same way, and it's often referred to as Accurate Recording.

    Some broadcasters run their EIT Present/Following signals from the systems that actually play each programme one after the other - so it's very accurate (when their systems are working correctly). BBC, ITV, C4 all do this.

    C5 doesn't use the same method as the other public service broadcasters, but they do send the start/stop signals using EIT present/following. In the case of Bob recording Dirty Harry, C5 updated the schedule in advance which also meant that the EIT Present/Following information was sent at the new updated times, and the YouView box knew when to start and stop.

    The YouView EPG and Miniguide use a combination of the EPG schedule start/finish time (that's the data that allows you to present the EPG grid for 7 days ahead), and some extra information that YouView collects e.g programme and series images, and this "realtime" EIT Present/Following information which tells you 'what's on now'.

    Piers, thank you for the explanation, but why keep repeating the exact text over and over again? We can all scroll.

    Meanwhile, do please try to understand that whatever the reason for the inability to record full programs on CH5, it is YouView's fault:

    Other PVRs record CH5 correctly, your box can't.

    You should have designed the box to work correctly for CH5. Especially the fact that being a partner you have all the inside information on how CH5 works.

    Your excuse does not hold!
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 6:00PM
    Piers2 said:

    Hi all, just to clear up any possible confusion here:

    All recordings on YouView are started and stopped by signals from the broadcasters (it's called "EIT Present/Following information"), and not from timers. YouView boxes and most Freeview+ boxes work in broadly the same way, and it's often referred to as Accurate Recording.

    Some broadcasters run their EIT Present/Following signals from the systems that actually play each programme one after the other - so it's very accurate (when their systems are working correctly). BBC, ITV, C4 all do this.

    C5 doesn't use the same method as the other public service broadcasters, but they do send the start/stop signals using EIT present/following. In the case of Bob recording Dirty Harry, C5 updated the schedule in advance which also meant that the EIT Present/Following information was sent at the new updated times, and the YouView box knew when to start and stop.

    The YouView EPG and Miniguide use a combination of the EPG schedule start/finish time (that's the data that allows you to present the EPG grid for 7 days ahead), and some extra information that YouView collects e.g programme and series images, and this "realtime" EIT Present/Following information which tells you 'what's on now'.

    Piers, thank you for the explanation, but why keep repeating the exact text over and over again? We can all scroll.

    Meanwhile, do please try to understand that whatever the reason for the inability to record full programs on CH5, it is YouView's fault:

    Other PVRs record CH5 correctly, your box can't.

    You should have designed the box to work correctly for CH5. Especially the fact that being a partner you have all the inside information on how CH5 works.

    Your excuse does not hold!
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