Channel 5 accurate recording

245

Comments

  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 5:00PM
    Piers, thank you for the explanation, but why keep repeating the exact text over and over again? We can all scroll.

    Meanwhile, do please try to understand that whatever the reason for the inability to record full programs on CH5, it is YouView's fault:

    Other PVRs record CH5 correctly, your box can't.

    You should have designed the box to work correctly for CH5. Especially the fact that being a partner you have all the inside information on how CH5 works.

    Your excuse does not hold!
  • gomezgomez Posts: 2,073Member ✭✭
    edited 27 November 2012, 5:02PM
    All well and good except that other PVRs do not record CH5 correctly either.
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 9 March 2017, 11:54PM
    "...other PVRs do not record CH5 correctly either."

    Wrong!

    My seven year old TopUpTV Thomson box never missed any CSI episodes I had been recording for the last couple of months.

    I am recording them in parallel with YouView Humax trialist box and almost half of the recordings there miss the end of the episodes.
  • drhowellsdrhowells Posts: 634Member ✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 5:21PM

    "...other PVRs do not record CH5 correctly either."

    Wrong!

    My seven year old TopUpTV Thomson box never missed any CSI episodes I had been recording for the last couple of months.

    I am recording them in parallel with YouView Humax trialist box and almost half of the recordings there miss the end of the episodes.

    Just because your single PVR does record correctly, does not mean that EVERY single PVR in the world does it. Gomez is RIGHT, there are many PVRs that do not record channel 5 correctly.
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 5:37PM

    "...other PVRs do not record CH5 correctly either."

    Wrong!

    My seven year old TopUpTV Thomson box never missed any CSI episodes I had been recording for the last couple of months.

    I am recording them in parallel with YouView Humax trialist box and almost half of the recordings there miss the end of the episodes.

    The topic is about YouView's inability to record CH5 programs correctly. There are other PVRs who fail to record correctly does not mean there are none that can record. Only because other manufacturers fell into the same design trap doesn't mean YouView has a leg to stand on, nor it gives them an option hide behind their argument that it is not their fault.

    There are other students who failed in the class had never been an excuse even if only one passed.
  • drhowellsdrhowells Posts: 634Member ✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 5:21PM

    "...other PVRs do not record CH5 correctly either."

    Wrong!

    My seven year old TopUpTV Thomson box never missed any CSI episodes I had been recording for the last couple of months.

    I am recording them in parallel with YouView Humax trialist box and almost half of the recordings there miss the end of the episodes.

    I know what the topic is about, I started it :) I am not saying it is an excuse, I was just taking exception to you saying that Gomez was categorically wrong, when he wasn't. Whilst YouView is obviously showing this issue, I am under no illusion that it is Channel 5 who need to sort themselves out to resolve it. Although, it would be nice if YouView allowed some way to get round the issue ourselves e.g. Padding.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,536Member ✭✭✭
    edited 26 February 2017, 1:39PM
    Agree with Gomez and DRH - I have two other PVR's in the house and they are a nightmare for recording Milkshake programmes on CH5. And it's all down to CH5.
  • billmarsbillmars Posts: 40Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 5:46PM

    "...other PVRs do not record CH5 correctly either."

    Wrong!

    My seven year old TopUpTV Thomson box never missed any CSI episodes I had been recording for the last couple of months.

    I am recording them in parallel with YouView Humax trialist box and almost half of the recordings there miss the end of the episodes.

    My Topfield records Channel 5 OK, but I suspect that is due to the padding (2 minutes before, 6 minutes after [user configurable]), added by Mystuff. Maybe other PVRs also use padding to enable successful Channel 5 recording.
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 9 March 2017, 11:54PM
    I'm afraid I cannot buy into the argument that it is CH5's fault. It is CH5's doing definitely but it is the PVR's fault not to be able to record an episode from beginning to end.

    These boxes are designed to work in UK only. There are just five digital terrestrial channels in UK. The box fails to work with one of those channels correctly. That is 20% of the available broadcast output. I don't care as a owner how things work. I just want them to work. Almost half of my favorite program's ends are cut.

    In legal terms this is a box that is not fit for the purposes it is sold for.
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 5:51PM

    "...other PVRs do not record CH5 correctly either."

    Wrong!

    My seven year old TopUpTV Thomson box never missed any CSI episodes I had been recording for the last couple of months.

    I am recording them in parallel with YouView Humax trialist box and almost half of the recordings there miss the end of the episodes.

    Yet another PVR that works... So far we know more that works than it doesn't.
  • edited 26 February 2017, 1:39PM
    >> There are just five digital terrestrial channels in UK.

    No there's not. There are more than 70 digital terrestrial channels in the UK.

    Every broadcast channel on YouView is a digital terrestrial channel. If you're insure what the ones after Channel 5 are there's a handy guide on your YouVIew box.

    Your other PVRs probably also list them. Or should unless they're faulty in some way.
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 5:54PM
    Martin1 said:

    >> There are just five digital terrestrial channels in UK.

    No there's not. There are more than 70 digital terrestrial channels in the UK.

    Every broadcast channel on YouView is a digital terrestrial channel. If you're insure what the ones after Channel 5 are there's a handy guide on your YouVIew box.

    Your other PVRs probably also list them. Or should unless they're faulty in some way.

    I apologize I should have said simply terrestrial channels, like before the digital switchover.
  • edited 25 April 2013, 6:35PM
    Martin1 said:

    >> There are just five digital terrestrial channels in UK.

    No there's not. There are more than 70 digital terrestrial channels in the UK.

    Every broadcast channel on YouView is a digital terrestrial channel. If you're insure what the ones after Channel 5 are there's a handy guide on your YouVIew box.

    Your other PVRs probably also list them. Or should unless they're faulty in some way.

    Even if you'd said terrestrial channels you'd have been wrong. Digital terrestrial channels are terrestrial channels.

    If you mean there WERE five ANALOGUE terrestrial channels you'd have been closer but it would still be irrelevant as YouView wouldn't have picked up any analogue channels.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,536Member ✭✭✭
    edited 26 February 2017, 1:39PM
    sarumbear wrote
    I apologize I should have said simply terrestrial channels, like before the digital switchover.
    ---------------------

    And terrestrial channels are not the total output of the box. So your figure of 20% is inaccurate.

    Mind you, it is said that 72% of statistics are made up on the spot.
  • gomezgomez Posts: 2,073Member ✭✭
    edited 27 November 2012, 6:03PM

    "...other PVRs do not record CH5 correctly either."

    Wrong!

    My seven year old TopUpTV Thomson box never missed any CSI episodes I had been recording for the last couple of months.

    I am recording them in parallel with YouView Humax trialist box and almost half of the recordings there miss the end of the episodes.

    The Topfield only "works" because it is recording the time slot given in the EPG plus padding. It is not recording the programme. Semantics true, but we need to be careful in our arguments before allocating blame. I would say 90% down to the broadcaster and 10% down the the PVR for not having a way of correcting for the broadcaster's fault.
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 6:04PM
    Martin1 said:

    >> There are just five digital terrestrial channels in UK.

    No there's not. There are more than 70 digital terrestrial channels in the UK.

    Every broadcast channel on YouView is a digital terrestrial channel. If you're insure what the ones after Channel 5 are there's a handy guide on your YouVIew box.

    Your other PVRs probably also list them. Or should unless they're faulty in some way.

    Thank you for picking up on semantics and burying the real issue. You are very welcome.

    CH5 has almost as much viewers as CH4 and BBC2. Whereas all those 70 odd channels have much less than 1% viewers and are irrelevant to my argument.

    http://www.barb.co.uk/report/weekly-v...
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 6:05PM

    "...other PVRs do not record CH5 correctly either."

    Wrong!

    My seven year old TopUpTV Thomson box never missed any CSI episodes I had been recording for the last couple of months.

    I am recording them in parallel with YouView Humax trialist box and almost half of the recordings there miss the end of the episodes.

    Who cares how it works, but it works. That is all I care.
  • drhowellsdrhowells Posts: 634Member ✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 5:21PM

    I'm afraid I cannot buy into the argument that it is CH5's fault. It is CH5's doing definitely but it is the PVR's fault not to be able to record an episode from beginning to end.

    These boxes are designed to work in UK only. There are just five digital terrestrial channels in UK. The box fails to work with one of those channels correctly. That is 20% of the available broadcast output. I don't care as a owner how things work. I just want them to work. Almost half of my favorite program's ends are cut.

    In legal terms this is a box that is not fit for the purposes it is sold for.

    My original question was asking YouView to talk to C5 to sort out their timings, not aimed at YouView to sort out their recordings. That is a different question. I agree that there should be a way round it in YouView, but there is already a thread about padding elsewhere.
  • edited 25 April 2013, 6:35PM
    Martin1 said:

    >> There are just five digital terrestrial channels in UK.

    No there's not. There are more than 70 digital terrestrial channels in the UK.

    Every broadcast channel on YouView is a digital terrestrial channel. If you're insure what the ones after Channel 5 are there's a handy guide on your YouVIew box.

    Your other PVRs probably also list them. Or should unless they're faulty in some way.

    >> CH5 has almost as much viewers as CH4 and BBC2. Whereas all those 70 odd channels have much less than 1% viewers and are irrelevant to my argument.

    Irrelevant how? WHat does viewing figures have to do with you not knowing how many channels there are or how they're transmitted?
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Posts: 315Member
    edited 27 November 2012, 7:40PM
    Martin1 said:

    >> There are just five digital terrestrial channels in UK.

    No there's not. There are more than 70 digital terrestrial channels in the UK.

    Every broadcast channel on YouView is a digital terrestrial channel. If you're insure what the ones after Channel 5 are there's a handy guide on your YouVIew box.

    Your other PVRs probably also list them. Or should unless they're faulty in some way.

    My argument is that having a recording issue on CH5 which has a large viewer base is pretty relevant to the importance of the YouView's inability to record an episode from beginning to the end. If that issue happened only on some digital channel that has 0.2% viewing figures that fault would have been less important.

    Sometimes, I feel like I'm talking with YouView's paid advocates.

    The box fails to record almost half of the programs on a major UK broadcaster and YouView argues it is nothing to do with you. I flatly refute that. So should any of you.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,536Member ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:04PM
    Martin1 said:

    >> There are just five digital terrestrial channels in UK.

    No there's not. There are more than 70 digital terrestrial channels in the UK.

    Every broadcast channel on YouView is a digital terrestrial channel. If you're insure what the ones after Channel 5 are there's a handy guide on your YouVIew box.

    Your other PVRs probably also list them. Or should unless they're faulty in some way.

    And up to now no one has agreed with you, sarumbear. Does that not tell you something?

    And as for talking to 'paid advocates', you just seem to want to jump all over this new platform/service at any chance you can get. And it just doesn't come across very well at all.
  • edited 26 September 2013, 7:33AM
    sarumbear wrote

    >> My argument is that having a recording issue on CH5 which has a large viewer base is pretty relevant to the importance of the YouView's inability to record an episode from beginning to the end.

    YouView's not incapable of recording an episode from beginning to the end, the broadcaster in question just doesn't seem to care enough about its audience to put the mechanisms in place to ensure your recordings capture the entire show.

    What you're doing is like blaming your microwave manufacturer because the ready meal doesn't actually cook in the time stated on the packet.

    >> Sometimes, I feel like I'm talking with YouView's paid advocates.

    Really? That's the best you can do?

    >> The box fails to record almost half of the programs on a major UK broadcaster and YouView argues it is nothing to do with you. I flatly refute that. So should any of you.

    Them, not you. I'm nothing to do with YouView.

    And it is nothing to do with them, you just refuse to accept it which you're welcome to do but it's not going to change anything.

    All you seem to want to do is make this forum a far less pleasant place and tie up people's time stirring as you did with the UTV player nonsense where you stoked someone up telling them how outraged they should be that YouVIew was blocking access to ITV1 shows when it was shown time and again that the claim was untrue.

    You clearly don't like the box so why not unplug it and ebay it?
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,431Member, Champion mod
    edited 4 March 2017, 9:29AM
    I've added this topic as a 5th reference for item 2, about clipped recordings, in the consolidated list of bugs and faults.

    Piers explanation of how channel 5 in particular operates differently to several other major broadcasters is hopefully useful to other people (who read this topic in the future) in understanding why they may experience more clipped recordings from that channel (although as we know from the other relevant topics, this issue occurs with other channels too).

    Generally though when something works as expected knowing how it does it is not of importance to most customers, when it does not do as they expect then understanding why it does not can be of some benefit (although understandably many people just really want it to work or be sorted so it does work as they expect regardless of what that might mean organisationally or technically).

    As has come up again on this topic though, the customer should not really have to know how this works or why it does not work and whether this is an issue specifically with the YouView system, with some or many Freeview PVRs or with other PVR systems too (e.g. TiVo, Sky, Freesat etc).

    Ideally one would hope that as YouView and others continue to talk to broadcasters about this issue they make the necessary changes and improvements that allow the accurate recording functionality to fully work as it should and thus the number of clipped recordings would become very rare (i.e. the original purpose/request of this topic).

    Since this is not a new issue specific to YouView though (i.e. it predates YouView and is an issue to a lesser or greater extent for some other PVRs) to expect change/progress in the short term from some broadcasters may be overly optimistic. There are many improvements and features YouView could work on that would add functionality to the system so as ever it remains up to YouView to assess how problematic they considered clipped recordings to be, and hence when and whether to move beyond encouraging partners to address the issue at source and to also devote time and effort (that they may otherwise devote to other bug fixes, improvements and features) to features such as intelligent padding (which to do really well is not necessarily as simple as it may at first sound as discussed on the other topics) that customers could choose to use if they wished to try to work around issues with the more problematic broadcasters/channels.
  • Paul DickPaul Dick Posts: 2Member
    edited 28 November 2012, 11:32AM
    Just moved from BT Vision Box to Humax Box yesterday and I can't believe how backward some of the options are. The searchable option is laughable and also the channel 5 problem never happened on the BT Vision Box. I lost the last 4 minutes of a program I was recording last night. This never happened on the BT Vision box. It must use the same system Piers mentions above but manages by some sort of common sense programming to get round this issue. By your admission above Piers you know there is a problem but refuse to do anything about it unlike the clever programmers at BT Vision. Maybe you could borrow them for an afternoon?
  • alal Posts: 1,298Member ✭✭✭
    edited 14 April 2017, 5:24PM
    I have solved this on my box - I've deleted channel 5!

    No worries about missing the end of the film.
    It's not in the EPG so I wont know what I've missed.
    I'm not seeing any of C5's adverts.
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Posts: 797Member ✭✭✭
    edited 28 November 2016, 10:55AM
    al said:

    I have solved this on my box - I've deleted channel 5!

    No worries about missing the end of the film.
    It's not in the EPG so I wont know what I've missed.
    I'm not seeing any of C5's adverts.

    Now if you could just dissable demand 5 .....
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • [removed][removed] Posts: 282Member
    edited 27 March 2013, 4:48PM
    Vision man said "And up to now no one has agreed with you, sarumbear. Does that not tell you something"

    Well I agree with Sarumbear. It isYouview's responsibility to supply boxes that do what they are supposed to do. I use padding for all my recordings and never have any problems, granted that is on my good PVR.

    Piers said "All recordings on YouView are started and stopped by signals from the broadcasters (it's called "EIT Present/Following information"), and not from timers. YouView boxes and most Freeview+ boxes work in broadly the same way, and it's often referred to as Accurate Recording."

    Accurate Recording hardly an apt name for the function.
  • iSPYiSPY Posts: 166Member
    edited 30 November 2012, 1:41PM
    al said:

    I have solved this on my box - I've deleted channel 5!

    No worries about missing the end of the film.
    It's not in the EPG so I wont know what I've missed.
    I'm not seeing any of C5's adverts.

    I've solved it as well, bought a Panasonic BWT720 Blu-ray Recorder! works a treat.
  • petkolpetkol Posts: 213Member
    edited 14 April 2017, 5:24PM
    I have written on this subject several times, and my view is that a if Youview personal video recorder is not capable of recording a television programme in full, then Youview should provide a method for the Youview pvr to do the job it is supposed to do.

    If you can't rely on it to record complete programmes, what is the point of using it as a recorder?

    While waiting for the seemingly utopian solution of every broadcaster doing everything they should for every programme they broadcast, the Youview pvr should provide the user with a way to compensate for the broadcasters' inadequacies.
  • petkolpetkol Posts: 213Member
    edited 17 December 2015, 1:32PM
    al said:

    I have solved this on my box - I've deleted channel 5!

    No worries about missing the end of the film.
    It's not in the EPG so I wont know what I've missed.
    I'm not seeing any of C5's adverts.

    Hi iSpy, have been interested to get some real life feedback on this machine. What's the recording situation like. Does it rely on the 'accurate recording mechanism'? Does it include editing features like their previous hard disc/dvd recorders? (shame the get satified software does not provide a pm mechanism provided to satisfy slightly off topic questions such as these)
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