Let's all get on and make this unit the tops!

TechnogranTechnogran Member Posts: 152
edited 5 March 2017, 2:28PM in Archived Posts
I have been so upset to see this forum degenerate into a slanging match between certain posters on here. To be honest with you all, some posters are behaving like children of late, and its a shame.
New users will come here for answers to their questions, to ask for help if they are stuck or don't understand how the unit works.

When we all began testing, it was pretty obvious that the majority of us would be PVR experts ( in other words, not new PVR owners as such) and have a set of criteria from using our previous PVR's that we consider are essential and can't be excluded from being 'must haves'
What we PVR 'Geeks' tend to always forget (and this has happened before on other forums) is that features that we all consider are a 'must' are not necessarily a 'must' for other users. YouView would (I imagine) be intent on keeping the units as simple for a new user to use as possible, without including all the 'bells and whistles' that we feel are necessary, and here, I must point out to all you ex Topfield owners, that the vanilla Topfield did NOT include all of the 'must have' and brilliant features that many of you are so enamoured with and wish were copied onto the YouView unit, most were supplied by other users.

We are also seeing an attitude from some posters where they are not prepared to admit that others have different opinions from their own, this again I have seen countless times on other forums, but its a shame that it is rearing its 'weary head' on here. There won't be one of us that uses this unit in exactly the same way as some other user, its the reason that creating a UI becomes so difficult, how do you make it work for everyone and cover all bases and usages? It's not easy as I'm sure most of you will agree if you think about it.

Yes, like you there are features and things I would love changing, the biggest being the silly way that the YouView button takes you to Guide, which is unnecessary as I think most of us agree on here, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that it does get changed, but for the unit itself and how it all works, well, I love it, the picture quality is second to none, and I love how I can watch something on the players if I accidentally missed recording it. Okay, its not perfect, but what newly released PVR ever has been, I certainly have never used one that was perfect out of the box!

So all I ask of you all is a certain amount of understanding and tolerance of each other and each others views on here, and let's all help one another.

thanks TG

Comments

  • edited 26 September 2013, 8:34AM
    >> What we PVR 'Geeks' tend to always forget (and this has happened before on other forums) is that features that we all consider are a 'must' are not necessarily a 'must' for other users.

    >> I must point out to all you ex Topfield owners, that the vanilla Topfield did NOT include all of the 'must have' and brilliant features that many of you are so enamoured with and wish were copied onto the YouView unit, most were supplied by other users.

    Good luck with that.

    There's a herd mentality developing here which simply won't tolerate any suggestion that some features are just fine or that people need to give it time and adapt to the YouVIew method, or that 'essential' features are actually quite niche.

    The penalty for anyone who departs from this herd-thought is accusations of dishonesty, abuse and dismissal as a troll.

    Post in disagreement that, for example, the MyView navigation is just fine and you'll get constantly bombarded by people accusing you of being awkward, take the time to set out why virtually all companies code for iOS before Android and you can't move for BS accusations of fanboi-ism.

    Try and accurately tell people that the only entity responsible for UTV not having a catch-up player is UTV and you get accused of being part of some bizarre conspiracy.

    That last point is a good example of where 'Everyone's opinion is equal' doesn't apply - of course one can hold an opinion that YouView, space monsters or a secret cabal are keeping ITV 1 content from viewers in NI but it's a nonsense opinion and others aren't obliged to play along, pat you on the arm and agree.

    The claims of the Humax box missing the "essential" "IPTV tuner" are another good example of where a number of people were roundly vilified for pointing out there was no such thing and that the boxes had all the hardware they needed to deliver the channels when they launched.

    Again, we were constantly told by others that it was wrong to tell people they were wrong because all opinions were valid. Well when that opinion is simply untrue, it can't really be valid, can it?
  • edited 26 September 2013, 8:33AM
    IN fact TG, here's a good example of where you got a bit of the treatment I mentioned above.

    TG: "Speaking personally, I have never felt the need to set padding on any of my PVR's even if they have included it. Accurate recording works fine apart from the occasion. Using padding adds its own problems I find which is why I never use it."

    You were instantly met with a demand that you "explain how the padding that is automatically used in some PVRs causes problems. You'll have to be specific with regard to the make and model of PVR."

    No simple tolerance of your dissenting opinion - and a opinion that was very clearly stated to be merely an opinion - instead a demand that you list specific makes and models of PVRs you'd ever had an issue with.

    Imagine if you or I had made the same demand of someone advocating padding who'd claimed it'd never caused them a problem.
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭
    edited 5 March 2017, 2:28PM
    I totally agree except the Topfield point. Personally I don't care who created the best features and on what platform they are on. The fact is they are out there and we are aware of them. So if there is a feature on our previous boxes that we would like on the Youview box, why not tell Youview about it?

    and how do you make it work for everyone and cover all bases and usages? Well funnily enough Toppy/Mystuff (sorry) had the answer - personal configuration - as standard the option is ON but in the config menu you can switch it OFF.

    In fact, wasn't the "backwards EPG" lifted directly from the 3view box?
  • TechnogranTechnogran Member Posts: 152
    edited 14 January 2013, 10:19PM
    Yes, it was 3View who initially came up with the idea of the 'backwards catch up' EPG, your right. Perhaps I didn't explain my feelings about the Toppy clearly enough, it wasn't Topfield themselves who introduced all the features that most who have used that unit love, that's the point I was trying to make, it was users. The Topfield is a 'geeks' product, a niche product (with the addition of the Mystuff) that probably most users would not really be all that fussed about, though of course all those who have used it rave about it.
  • TechnogranTechnogran Member Posts: 152
    edited 14 January 2013, 2:17PM
    Martin1 said:

    IN fact TG, here's a good example of where you got a bit of the treatment I mentioned above.

    TG: "Speaking personally, I have never felt the need to set padding on any of my PVR's even if they have included it. Accurate recording works fine apart from the occasion. Using padding adds its own problems I find which is why I never use it."

    You were instantly met with a demand that you "explain how the padding that is automatically used in some PVRs causes problems. You'll have to be specific with regard to the make and model of PVR."

    No simple tolerance of your dissenting opinion - and a opinion that was very clearly stated to be merely an opinion - instead a demand that you list specific makes and models of PVRs you'd ever had an issue with.

    Imagine if you or I had made the same demand of someone advocating padding who'd claimed it'd never caused them a problem.

    Yes Martin, which is why I point out that what one user considers is an essential feature isn't necessarily essential to other users. I have never felt the need to use padding even when its been available because I feel that it can cause 'clashes' that would otherwise not be there. Can't remember the specific unit on which I tried padding out, probably a Humax I should think knowing my previous ownership of PVR's.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 February 2017, 3:05PM
    Well said Technogran. I have probably been guilty of the occasional *ahem* pithy remark myself.

    The key elements we should all try to remind ourselves to avoid are intolerance, belittling of others' points of view, posting opinions which masquerade as fact and generally cheap point-scoring. Sometimes easier said than done for some of us, particularly when there are some pompous posters out there whose balloons so desperately cry out to be pricked. But a salutary reminder from your good self nonetheless, thank you for that.

    I sincerely hope this topic itself doesn't descend into the kind of slanging match which you are right to be weary of.
  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 16 January 2013, 1:51AM
    Very curious! My view of who is guilty of following the herd and who is genuinely trying to offer suggestions for improvement are at total odds with what has been expressed in this thread.
  • MadcottoMadcotto Member Posts: 580 ✭✭
    edited 15 July 2013, 6:42PM
    Well i been guilty of the odd dig now and then but mostly when something has been presented in a manner that some people including me cannot always let slide.

    i will say most the comments i do make are normally a joke and ive never carried a personnel greef with someone to another subject.

    Some people never beleave they guilty of causing any of this and untill all partys put there hands up and stop i dont see much changing.
  • Andrew MarlowAndrew Marlow Member Posts: 65
    edited 14 January 2013, 9:58PM
    Martin1 said:

    IN fact TG, here's a good example of where you got a bit of the treatment I mentioned above.

    TG: "Speaking personally, I have never felt the need to set padding on any of my PVR's even if they have included it. Accurate recording works fine apart from the occasion. Using padding adds its own problems I find which is why I never use it."

    You were instantly met with a demand that you "explain how the padding that is automatically used in some PVRs causes problems. You'll have to be specific with regard to the make and model of PVR."

    No simple tolerance of your dissenting opinion - and a opinion that was very clearly stated to be merely an opinion - instead a demand that you list specific makes and models of PVRs you'd ever had an issue with.

    Imagine if you or I had made the same demand of someone advocating padding who'd claimed it'd never caused them a problem.

    That user would be me. Thank you for explaining what you consider the issue to be with padding - clashes. That is what I wanted to know.
  • TanjaTanja Member Posts: 251
    edited 5 November 2015, 11:34AM
    Hi Technogran et al, many thanks for this post. It does speak from our hearts as well.
    We had to watch how this great forum was turned into a place for people to have arguments & making personal remarks rather than helping each other.
    With this in mind, I would like to remind everyone of the community guidelines http://www.youview.com/support/kb/you... which do say to help other people and be polite with each other.
    We request all members to be respectful of other people’s opinions and preferences and not indulge in being judgmental, disrespectful and using inappropriate language.
    Please bear in mind that sarcasm or tongue in cheek comments don’t always travel well in such a medium.
    So, as Technogran said it, “all I ask of you all is a certain amount of understanding and tolerance of each other and each other’s views on here, and let's all help one another.”

    We look forward to this forum being a place for great healthy, lively debates where people help each other with respect. We do like this forum and want to see it go from strength to strength.
  • MadcottoMadcotto Member Posts: 580 ✭✭
    edited 15 July 2013, 6:42PM
    i was going suggest some form of rouges gallery where names of people behaving in ways that someone finds issues with could be posted done in a way as for the person to address their behavior but then realized quickly how disastrous that would turn out lol

    Esp as im sure my name would be there lol
  • edited 9 November 2014, 6:13PM
    Hi Madcotto

    Amusing suggestion but being serious, IMVHO I still think it's for staff moderators to pull any of us back into line if we step out of it.

    What you suggest, even in jest, could/would very quickly become a sort of mob rule, name & shame set-up and I don't see how anything would be improved by that.

    I still think people sometimes read too much into, or assume an intent behind, people's comments that was never in the mind of the original poster. Pretty sure I was the victim of that last night TBH.
  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 15 January 2013, 10:31PM
    We have probably all seen forums where Merits and Demerits for users quickly descends into a Clique on Clique war.
  • davygravydavygravy Member Posts: 24
    edited 9 November 2014, 6:13PM
    Martin1 said:

    Hi Madcotto

    Amusing suggestion but being serious, IMVHO I still think it's for staff moderators to pull any of us back into line if we step out of it.

    What you suggest, even in jest, could/would very quickly become a sort of mob rule, name & shame set-up and I don't see how anything would be improved by that.

    I still think people sometimes read too much into, or assume an intent behind, people's comments that was never in the mind of the original poster. Pretty sure I was the victim of that last night TBH.

    not redchiz by any chance
  • TomWTomW Member Posts: 508 ✭✭
    edited 27 November 2016, 7:35PM
    Totally agree that we should all remain tolerant and respectful. I'm perfectly happy to accept that opinions will differ and I hope that while some of my posts may be matter-of-fact I've never been rude or disrespectful (despite some provocation).

    In regards to the Topfield it's true that many of the features and user interface enhancements did not come with the box as standard and were created by users. Much of this enhancement work was iterative and based on user feedback. So if anything I think it goes to show that PVRs can be improved if the developers listen and act on user feedback. That's why I think it's good that we get a range of views on this forum and that YouView are aware of them. As to whether the Topfield is a geeks PVR I think that's a matter opinion. It's fair to say that Topfield TAPs are not 'plug and play' but the PVR itself is very easy to use. My parents struggle with technology but they love their Toppy, yet I'm not sure that they'd feel the same about YouView in it's current form.

    Also just to pick up on a point of fact - and I know I've said this before but - padding need not cause timer conflicts if it is implemented correctly. The Toppy with MyStuff, for example, will add padding with graceful fallback to AR to avoid timer conflicts.
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