EPG Data Mashup: Film entries (inc. solution for rollup folder of recordings)

NickNick Member Posts: 594
edited 14 August 2017, 8:15AM in Archived Posts
The current YouView (YV) EPG does not list films with the correct metadata field even though it gets the data from the same source.

This can be demonstrated by clicking "Info" on a film entry and selecting "Details" - a film entry would have "About the Film" as a title whilst a standard programme entry would have "About the Programme". A quick check on the YV entries for the week ahead (w/c 8-Apr-13) showed that 99% of ALL the film entries listed were shown as "Programme" and not "Film". The only channel that had 100% correct was BBC1 and all other channels did not use the correct indicator which means that any functionality designed/planned around films would be using bad data - Film Icon, Recorded films folder in MyView, etc.

Freeview Metadata (SID inputs and outputs):


The above diagram shows that Radio Times and What's On TV have the same raw data as Freeview but their EPGs are richer that the one shown for YouView and their TV listings always have every film marked accordingly. The same films listed via the YV/Freeview EPG are marked as "Programmes" not "Films"

Could YouView build the following set of changes and new features:

1. MetaData Field: "FILM Indicator"
Current Situation:
The current YV EPG does not list films with the correct metadata field even though it gets the data from the same source meaning that any functionality designed/planned around films would be using bad data.

Solution:
Radio times website can instantly show all the films on for the week (www.radiotimes.com/film/film-on-tv) therefore they must use a metadata field that distinguishes them from all other programme entries. YouView should use this metadata field for all internal features as it is consistently correct. Searching against the genre of film would then become straight forward.
http://community.youview.com/youview/...
http://community.youview.com/youview/...

2. EPG "INFO" DISPLAY: Film Still/Poster
Current Situation:
The current YV EPG does not show any poster image or film still for a film entry when a user presses the 'INFO' button.

Solution:
Radio TImes has a picture still from each of the films listed on the guide (www.radiotimes.com/film/film-on-tv). What's on TV also has a picture still from each of the films listed on the guide (www.whatsontv.co.uk/todays-top-tv).

YouView should tap into this field or data source and display the same film still on the right-hand side of the "Info" box when displayed.
http://community.youview.com/youview/...

3. EPG: Movie/Film Icon
Current Situation:
The current YouView EPG does not show a small icon in a film entry to aid the customer when scanning.

Solution:
Once the metadata field has been finalised this becomes a small change. YouView can then display a film icon
http://community.youview.com/youview/...

4. MYVIEW RECORDINGS: FILMS Auto-folder
Current Situation:
Any films recorded are bundled into all other recordings and the listing gets cluttered.

Solution:
Once the metadata field has been finalised this becomes a small change. Within "Device Management" settings YouView can add a new toggle to turn on/off "Auto-folder Film Recordings" which groups all recorded films into a single rollup folder like the series folders do currently.
http://community.youview.com/youview/...
http://community.youview.com/youview/...

I know that some of these have already been listed (where I've already +1) but I wanted to create a single thread with a possible solution and feature list for Films only as I feel that Film Metadata is not currently being used correctly.
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Comments

  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 3 October 2013, 11:14AM
    Putting all films in one folder had always been my SOP over several years of PVR use. I would add though that a folder needs to be flagged as having Unwatched recordings as a reminder there is something new to watch, something which applies to all the series folders too of course.
  • PPP QQQPPP QQQ Member Posts: 857
    edited 3 March 2017, 5:12PM
    I'd much rather have films not in folders, and just have the length and size of all programmes displayed in the listing of recordings.

    I can't see what would be the advantage of having a film folder, thus interfering with the user's preferred ordering method (chronological or alphabetical) and requiring yet more button presses before you can actually get to a recording and start watching.

    I hope this will be optional if it's added.
  • PiersPiers Member Posts: 561 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 23 February 2017, 1:13PM
    @Nick. Good spot. I'll investigate why Films are not being flagged correctly in the UI. The original metadata is actually correct for most Films that I've just looked at, and the fact that Films section of On-demand is populated adds weight to this.

    That diagram above looks like a BBC specific one - can you post the link to the page it came from? Although we do get some data from the FreeView *central* CSI feeds, the EPG is enhanced with data directly from our content partners via IP (e.g for the "Details" tab). If you switch your YouView box on with the network unplugged, you'll notice different data in the Info panel for some programmes.
  • edited 25 April 2013, 7:04PM
    PPP QQQ said:

    I'd much rather have films not in folders, and just have the length and size of all programmes displayed in the listing of recordings.

    I can't see what would be the advantage of having a film folder, thus interfering with the user's preferred ordering method (chronological or alphabetical) and requiring yet more button presses before you can actually get to a recording and start watching.

    I hope this will be optional if it's added.

    >> I can't see what would be the advantage of having a film folder,

    For people who record a lot of films it would reduce the page count in MyView.

    >> requiring yet more button presses before you can actually get to a recording and start watching.

    Not necessarily, depends whether you think accessing a folder on page one or two is more key presses than scrolling to page 4 to watch a film you recorded a couple of weeks back.
  • PPP QQQPPP QQQ Member Posts: 857
    edited 7 April 2013, 10:26AM
    PPP QQQ said:

    I'd much rather have films not in folders, and just have the length and size of all programmes displayed in the listing of recordings.

    I can't see what would be the advantage of having a film folder, thus interfering with the user's preferred ordering method (chronological or alphabetical) and requiring yet more button presses before you can actually get to a recording and start watching.

    I hope this will be optional if it's added.

    Yes, different viewing habits - hence why any "film folder" innovation should be optional - not compulsory, like series folders.

    The OP does suggest a toggle. I'm urging YV to stick to that. Please.
  • paulusthewoodgnomepaulusthewoodgnome Member Posts: 19
    edited 14 August 2017, 8:15AM
    @Nick @Piers Although correctly tagged, the BBC1 film details lack information offered by other PVRs. e.g. The details for 'The Ladykillers' (9 April, 11.35pm) displayed by my Technika Smartbox 8320HD EPG includes the year of production, 2004 and S for stereo. Youview doesn't provide this info.

    Another example - 'Ladder 49' (10 April, 11.05pm). The year is given by Smartbox along with the acronyms for Audio Description and Stereo but none of this available on Youview. Can this be rectified?
  • PPP QQQPPP QQQ Member Posts: 857
    edited 7 April 2013, 12:17PM

    @Nick @Piers Although correctly tagged, the BBC1 film details lack information offered by other PVRs. e.g. The details for 'The Ladykillers' (9 April, 11.35pm) displayed by my Technika Smartbox 8320HD EPG includes the year of production, 2004 and S for stereo. Youview doesn't provide this info.

    Another example - 'Ladder 49' (10 April, 11.05pm). The year is given by Smartbox along with the acronyms for Audio Description and Stereo but none of this available on Youview. Can this be rectified?

    The S is for Subtitles, not stereo. S, AD, and the year are all shown in the info for "The Ladykillers" on BBC1 and BBC1HD, on my Humax YV. Is yours perhaps Huawei?

    "Ladder 49" also has the year and the S for subtitles but AD is not indicated, on my box, nor on my tv or my other PVR.
  • NickNick Member Posts: 594
    edited 9 March 2015, 6:43AM
    Piers2 said:

    @Nick. Good spot. I'll investigate why Films are not being flagged correctly in the UI. The original metadata is actually correct for most Films that I've just looked at, and the fact that Films section of On-demand is populated adds weight to this.

    That diagram above looks like a BBC specific one - can you post the link to the page it came from? Although we do get some data from the FreeView *central* CSI feeds, the EPG is enhanced with data directly from our content partners via IP (e.g for the "Details" tab). If you switch your YouView box on with the network unplugged, you'll notice different data in the Info panel for some programmes.

    @Piers.. It's from the BBC R&D website called Enabling Content Acquisition http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/eca/...
  • NickNick Member Posts: 594
    edited 9 March 2015, 6:43AM
    An additional data Mashup which could be very useful and help YouView stand out from the crowd might be additional data or tabs - after 'Details' - that show:

    Cast - Lists all the cast (IMDB or Flixster sourced)
    IMDB - Their overall rating of the film and top user reviews
    Flixster - Their overall rating of the film and top user reviews

    The Search facility could also incorporate the cast names data. For example; a YouView user could search for all programmes with Simon Pegg and it would show up "Hot Fuzz" and "Shaun of the Dead" as well as "Black Books" and "Spaced".
  • NickNick Member Posts: 594
    edited 9 March 2015, 6:43AM
    PPP QQQ said:

    I'd much rather have films not in folders, and just have the length and size of all programmes displayed in the listing of recordings.

    I can't see what would be the advantage of having a film folder, thus interfering with the user's preferred ordering method (chronological or alphabetical) and requiring yet more button presses before you can actually get to a recording and start watching.

    I hope this will be optional if it's added.

    @Aisha. Totally agree with the option to turn off the auto-rollup folder. Some people like myself record a load of films and all manner of TV programmes so any self-organisation done by the box is welcome. Others like yourself don't like it - as long as there's a toggle option everyone's happy :)
  • paulusthewoodgnomepaulusthewoodgnome Member Posts: 19
    edited 7 April 2013, 3:01PM

    @Nick @Piers Although correctly tagged, the BBC1 film details lack information offered by other PVRs. e.g. The details for 'The Ladykillers' (9 April, 11.35pm) displayed by my Technika Smartbox 8320HD EPG includes the year of production, 2004 and S for stereo. Youview doesn't provide this info.

    Another example - 'Ladder 49' (10 April, 11.05pm). The year is given by Smartbox along with the acronyms for Audio Description and Stereo but none of this available on Youview. Can this be rectified?

    S also stands for "Doh!"

    Mine's a BT.
  • PiersPiers Member Posts: 561 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 23 February 2017, 1:13PM

    @Nick. Good spot. I'll investigate why Films are not being flagged correctly in the UI. The original metadata is actually correct for most Films that I've just looked at, and the fact that Films section of On-demand is populated adds weight to this.
    We've fixed the most of the issues with films displaying as "Programme" in the new software release for Humax. See Automatic software update June 2013.

    There are plans to improve search to use more of the data we have, but that won't arrive until sometime next year.
  • NickNick Member Posts: 594
    edited 9 March 2015, 6:43AM
    Piers2 said:


    @Nick. Good spot. I'll investigate why Films are not being flagged correctly in the UI. The original metadata is actually correct for most Films that I've just looked at, and the fact that Films section of On-demand is populated adds weight to this.
    We've fixed the most of the issues with films displaying as "Programme" in the new software release for Humax. See Automatic software update June 2013.

    There are plans to improve search to use more of the data we have, but that won't arrive until sometime next year.Thanks Piers, great to hear that its been fixed! Would YV be considering the mashup suggestions as well? (film stills, IMDB, etc) as well as an auto rollup film folder now that the data's been fixed?

    Sorry about being a cheeky s*d but I have to ask!!!
  • NickNick Member Posts: 594
    edited 9 March 2015, 6:43AM
    Piers2 said:


    @Nick. Good spot. I'll investigate why Films are not being flagged correctly in the UI. The original metadata is actually correct for most Films that I've just looked at, and the fact that Films section of On-demand is populated adds weight to this.
    We've fixed the most of the issues with films displaying as "Programme" in the new software release for Humax. See Automatic software update June 2013.

    There are plans to improve search to use more of the data we have, but that won't arrive until sometime next year.Doesn't appear to have been fixed at all by the latest update Piers... Apart from the BEEB channels all others are still showing "programme".
  • PiersPiers Member Posts: 561 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 17 November 2015, 3:18PM
    Piers2 said:


    @Nick. Good spot. I'll investigate why Films are not being flagged correctly in the UI. The original metadata is actually correct for most Films that I've just looked at, and the fact that Films section of On-demand is populated adds weight to this.
    We've fixed the most of the issues with films displaying as "Programme" in the new software release for Humax. See Automatic software update June 2013.

    There are plans to improve search to use more of the data we have, but that won't arrive until sometime next year.Can you give an example? Everything that I've just checked except for Channel 5 content says Film, and we're working on that problem now. I did add a mention that it wasn't completely fixed in the release notes, but didn't mention that the remaining problem affects C5 more than others.
  • NickNick Member Posts: 594
    edited 9 March 2015, 6:43AM
    Piers2 said:


    @Nick. Good spot. I'll investigate why Films are not being flagged correctly in the UI. The original metadata is actually correct for most Films that I've just looked at, and the fact that Films section of On-demand is populated adds weight to this.
    We've fixed the most of the issues with films displaying as "Programme" in the new software release for Humax. See Automatic software update June 2013.

    There are plans to improve search to use more of the data we have, but that won't arrive until sometime next year.Hi Piers,

    Just did a quick trawl through our EPG tonight (had to wait until tennis had ended - go Murray!). Here's a quick list of some of the films that are all showing as programme when you press the Info button on them.

    Weds 3/7
    --------
    ITV4
    10:00pm Death Wish 2
    11:55pm Scum

    FILM 4
    6:35pm Beaches
    9:00pm Skyline
    10:50pm Down Terrace

    Thurs 4/7
    ---------
    ITV2
    8:15pm The Scorpion King
    Film 4
    6:20pm Hunt for Red October
    9:00pm Beverly Hills Cop II
    11:05pm Kill List
    VIVA
    9:00pm The Faculty
    MOVIE MIX
    9:00pm Planet of the Apes
    11:30pm Bachelor Party 2: The Last Temptation

    SYSTEM INFO:
    TV Make/Model: Samsung LE40A656A1F
    Device Information: Humax DTRT1000
    Software Updated: 25 June 2013
    Manufacturer Software: 13.4.0
    Component software: 1.6.0
    Platform configuration: 490
    ISP configuration: 3
    Eco-Mode: Low
    On demand packages: None
    Broadband supplier: O2
    Transmitting station: Emley Moor
  • PiersPiers Member Posts: 561 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 23 February 2017, 1:13PM
    Ah I see. The problem I was referring to in the release notes was in our On Demand Films section.

    I'll check into those. It's either:

    a) The data isn't correct in the DTT feed
    b) The data isn't correct in the enhanced data feed that YouView gets via IP
    c) Both of the above
    d) The data is good but there's a data merge defect or UI defect.
  • edited 9 March 2015, 6:43AM
    I've only just encountered this thread.
    Just wanted to say "well done" to Nick for his excellent, clearly explained original post, and for pursuing this issue.
    I agree it is important and needs to be sorted out.
    In particular I would welcome a films auto- folder.
    Smiley
  • NickNick Member Posts: 594
    edited 9 March 2015, 6:43AM
    gwatuk said:

    I've only just encountered this thread.
    Just wanted to say "well done" to Nick for his excellent, clearly explained original post, and for pursuing this issue.
    I agree it is important and needs to be sorted out.
    In particular I would welcome a films auto- folder.
    Smiley

    Thanks! :)
  • NickNick Member Posts: 594
    edited 9 March 2015, 6:43AM
    Piers2 said:

    Ah I see. The problem I was referring to in the release notes was in our On Demand Films section.

    I'll check into those. It's either:

    a) The data isn't correct in the DTT feed
    b) The data isn't correct in the enhanced data feed that YouView gets via IP
    c) Both of the above
    d) The data is good but there's a data merge defect or UI defect.

    Hi Piers,

    Any news about your investigations regarding the Film metatag? It's still a problem as a today with 99% of the film entries on the EPG are still marked as programmes rather than films.

    Once it's been fixed could we get the auto films folder... Please!
  • PiersPiers Member Posts: 561 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 23 February 2017, 1:13PM
    Hi Nick, A quick update:

    Just a bit of background. YouView boxes have access to 3 types of information for all programmes including films:

    a) data via the aerial like all freeview boxes use. (DTT)
    b) the same data available via YouView's IP servers. (we need this for searching, and to avoid gaps in the EPG while the box is still waiting for the DTT data to load if it's been off for a while)
    c) YouView's enhanced data that is sent to us from the content provider or collected by us, including on demand availability, and in some cases longer synopsis - and in the future - actors, directors, ratings etc.

    There's a couple of YouView bugs relating to "Films" that we're hoping to squash in the next few months. It's been hard to raise the priority as the don't really break features as such - they're just annoying, but they're moving up the queue steadily.

    1) Most films in the future EPG showing as "Programmes". The cause of this is just a missing feature in the UI - it doesn't know how interpret the category data (film in this case) from either DTT aerial feeds or the IP feed of that DTT data (types a and b from above). It does work correctly, (e.g shows "Film") for a lot BBC films because they are (or will be in the 7 day EPG period) available on-demand, and we get the data in a format we do understand from the content provider (type c from above) - bypassing the DTT data, and using our own metadata system. The important part is that our servers and the YouView box do know which items are films in all cases - we just can't show it in the UI yet for items that only have DTT or DTT via IP data.

    2) Our search servers don't return films if you ask for film. This one isn't really a bug as we don't have a "search for films" option yet, but we do want to add this to the mobile search as well as the YouView box search. And we need to fix the server problem first.

    I'll update when we've made progress on either bug. No date has been set yet for a "search for films" option, but I'm doing what I can!
  • NickNick Member Posts: 594
    edited 9 March 2015, 6:43AM
    Piers2 said:

    Hi Nick, A quick update:

    Just a bit of background. YouView boxes have access to 3 types of information for all programmes including films:

    a) data via the aerial like all freeview boxes use. (DTT)
    b) the same data available via YouView's IP servers. (we need this for searching, and to avoid gaps in the EPG while the box is still waiting for the DTT data to load if it's been off for a while)
    c) YouView's enhanced data that is sent to us from the content provider or collected by us, including on demand availability, and in some cases longer synopsis - and in the future - actors, directors, ratings etc.

    There's a couple of YouView bugs relating to "Films" that we're hoping to squash in the next few months. It's been hard to raise the priority as the don't really break features as such - they're just annoying, but they're moving up the queue steadily.

    1) Most films in the future EPG showing as "Programmes". The cause of this is just a missing feature in the UI - it doesn't know how interpret the category data (film in this case) from either DTT aerial feeds or the IP feed of that DTT data (types a and b from above). It does work correctly, (e.g shows "Film") for a lot BBC films because they are (or will be in the 7 day EPG period) available on-demand, and we get the data in a format we do understand from the content provider (type c from above) - bypassing the DTT data, and using our own metadata system. The important part is that our servers and the YouView box do know which items are films in all cases - we just can't show it in the UI yet for items that only have DTT or DTT via IP data.

    2) Our search servers don't return films if you ask for film. This one isn't really a bug as we don't have a "search for films" option yet, but we do want to add this to the mobile search as well as the YouView box search. And we need to fix the server problem first.

    I'll update when we've made progress on either bug. No date has been set yet for a "search for films" option, but I'm doing what I can!

    Hi Piers,

    Apologies for not replying straight away (been busy running my business). Comments for each of your points:
    1. Agreed that the EPG still shows "Programmes" and there is an outstanding server problem that needs to be fixed but surely if the YV server data IS correct in all cases you could still do the following EPG enhancements mentioned in this thread?
    A) Film still/poster in the INFO dialog: Depends on the source of the image (IMDB?)
    B) EPG Movie/Film icon: This would be very easy to implement!!
    C) Films Autofolder: This would be an easy extension to the existing series auto-rollup functionality (with a toggle on/off option via user settings - default to Yes).
    D) Film rating/reviews after "Details" tab: This could be easy enough to implement and would help YouView stand out from the crowd. Sources should be IMDB and Flixster - only problem I can see is ensuring that the correct film is displayed (unique reference film name/year?).

    2. Search servers for films - not really a major problem IMHO at the moment but would be nice in the future.

    TBH I would much prefer the option to opt in/out of providers from the On Demand section so that they are included/excluded from the search and On Demand summaries!
  • stormystormy Member Posts: 1,026 ✭✭
    edited 3 March 2017, 5:12PM
    This is one of the features I really would love, being able to search the week ahead for films, and then set the ones I am interested in to record. At the moment its a real ballache.

    Either having to check the "usual" channel suspects for films, or using some online web resource to find the films on, then do text searches within Youview. Its very, very, very cumbersome.

    Reading the thread I am confused if this feature (which is already available for Ondemand content) will be making it onto Youview for the DTT EPG. Is this planned Piers? Phil?

    Thanks,
  • stormystormy Member Posts: 1,026 ✭✭
    edited 1 December 2016, 8:24AM
    PPP QQQ said:

    I'd much rather have films not in folders, and just have the length and size of all programmes displayed in the listing of recordings.

    I can't see what would be the advantage of having a film folder, thus interfering with the user's preferred ordering method (chronological or alphabetical) and requiring yet more button presses before you can actually get to a recording and start watching.

    I hope this will be optional if it's added.

    Before I got the Youview box I was dead against this folder idea, but now having used the box for a couple of weeks and getting a very cluttered recordings list I am all for it. Especially if its configurable.
  • Gareth DaviesGareth Davies Member Posts: 9
    edited 26 October 2013, 11:04AM
    I bought a Humax YouView box a couple of days ago to replace my Humax 9200.

    I'm shocked to discover that there is no "Genre" search on the YouView service - I can't search for all films on in the next 7 days. This is something I could do with my 7 year old basic Humax 9200!

    This is such a basic service that its absence questions the credibility and customer focus of YouView.

    I am seriously considering returning my Humax YouView box and buying a Humax HD Free view PVR with iPlayer instead.
  • NickNick Member Posts: 594
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Piers, any more news or updates on how films are handled by YouView?
  • stormystormy Member Posts: 1,026 ✭✭
    edited 1 December 2016, 8:24AM
    Nick4 said:

    Piers, any more news or updates on how films are handled by YouView?

    BUMP
  • edited 8 January 2015, 3:54PM
    Nick4 said:

    Piers, any more news or updates on how films are handled by YouView?

    BUMP +1
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,464 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:38AM
    Nick4 said:

    Piers, any more news or updates on how films are handled by YouView?

    Fasten your seat belts, boys, it's gonna be a BUMPy ride!
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • stormystormy Member Posts: 1,026 ✭✭
    edited 3 March 2017, 5:12PM
    :) quite possibly Roy, quite possibly.

    I figured though this would be *easy* to implement rather than say DLNA or something much more complex. (heres hoping anyway). This 'film' search feature would be my most wanted 'fix' right now.

    I realise nothing is easy. :)
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