BT Sport

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  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 November 2016, 10:48AM
    Visionman said:

    I see that the UEFA Europa League Final between Liverpool and Sevilla from Basil's stadium, St Jakob-Park, Switzerland, is going to be broadcast in Ultra HD. I wondered about the logistics of this and found they'll be using a 4K satellite link to bounce the signal back to the UK -

    http://www.timeline.tv/2016/03/18/first-ultra-hd-4k-satellite-link-for-the-europa-league-match/

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/05/bt_sport_takes_elemental_step_to_software_encoding/

    2 million for the man Utd v Liverpool game and for uhd the viewing figure is 100% higher for live 4K than any other operator in the uk. Why do you just want to put the service and BT down. Yes it is a niche product but it is growing fast. Viewing figures for BT sport are 42% higher than last year... That's pretty good going for anyone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,055 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:40AM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Watching disinterestedly, redchiz is asking how many people have a BT 4K box that they can take advantage of, having the published required speed of 44 meg upwards, to watch the sport that BT has bought for the exclusive enjoyment of its subscribers.

    You, Visionman, are contrasting this with the number of people who could get 50 meg if they went out and bought it.

    Not those who have got it mind, just those who could get it.

    And who having then got it, still have a few hurdles to jump through before they can watch the sport that BT have bought a monopoly of.

    So the difference between your figure and Redchiz' is perhaps adequately explained by all those people watching a blank TV screen, and going "By heck, if only I could get 44 meg and upwards", plus those who could have got it, but have settled for less going "By heck, if only I had shelled out for that faster broadband I could have had", plus those who have got such speeds going "By heck, if only I had signed up for BT TV " (ignoring the fact that if they get those speeds only by dint of being with Virgin, there is no such possibility for them).

    Would that be a fair summation of the difference between those who will actually be contributing to the rather reduced viewing figures for these upcoming matches, and the ghost population you are counting, who won't?
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,175 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:06PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    "Watching disinterestedly, how many people have a BT 4K box that they can take advantage of"
    Its 20,000.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 November 2016, 10:48AM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    I think the whole point is who could get this and on that point the viewing figures could be much higher. The idea is you expand the service and hopefully more people will take it up. Do you really think BT are saying ok we have got 20,000 customers let just stick with that and show more in UHD just for them. They are obviously hoping when the extended coverage kicks off next year the customer base is higher and therefore the figures at the minute are irrelevant. If people only brought out a service when they already had a million plus customers signed up for it we would live in a very backwards world.

    The fact is there are probably 10 million plus customers who could get the service if they wanted therefore visionman talking about it is very relevant news to a lot of people (me included). So just saying 'not many have it so why mention it' is just sour grapes...


    Like I said above 'the viewing figure for live 4K is 100% higher than any other operator in the UK'.


    In the latest awards the award was (this whole topic is about BT Sport NOT JUST UHD if you read the headline title)...

    Best Live Streaming Experience 
    BT Sport | BT Sport

    https://tvconnectawards.com/


    They also have the fastest growing TV platform this quarter (thanks for that also goes to YouView) so the 'potential' viewing figures are rising all the time, so they are obviously doing something right..

  • Michael GMichael G Member Posts: 876
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:29AM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Amazon and Netflix UK must be kicking themselves. They've invested in 4K streaming when 4K speeds are clearly not, and never will be, available to 99.9% of the population, who will therefore not be interested in it. If only they'd realised ;-)
  • DavidBDavidB Member Posts: 69
    edited 9 May 2016, 8:40AM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    I think with the recent upping of the standard for FTTC from 40 Mbts to 52 Mbts, will at least give more people access to BT UHD services, which require a minimum speed of 44 Mbts. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,055 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:40AM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Hi Scott

    I'm fairly neutral in this debate - it is just that it pains me to see two people arguing different numbers, and brickbats being thrown, when quite possibly both are correct in their respective spheres :-(

    But 'could' numbers are a measure of possibilities, and yes, perhaps what BT have done their sums based on building up to a slice of.

    However, the lowliest shopping channel that shares a Mux with ITV no doubt dreams of the Downton-sized audience it 'could', in principle, attract, with the corresponding boost to its rate card. But the dream will remain obdurately a dream.

    BARB, it should not have escaped your attention, counts 'did' not 'could'.

    And while you are correct that BT Sport can be watched in HD by those without the 4K box - something which in itself may limit the takeup of 4K - the fact remains that BT Sport are out there with all their 4K infrastructure at these matches, and there are just 20,000 people (thanks Visionman!) at present who can end-to-end that 4K.

    Unless the YouView box is not the only way to consume BT Sport 4K of course - can it be got over PCs, etc?
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 November 2016, 10:48AM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    But Roy what is the lowest viewing figure in your mind that means whether something can be mentioned on here or not. I thought all news that was relevant (UHD and BT Sport is definitely relevant to YouView) could be mentioned on here.

    People can argue all they like about viewing figures (actual or possible), what I am saying is why is that figure even relevant to this conversation in the first place. Just because 20,000 can get it now does that mean not a single one of the other 10 million that could receive it don't have the slightest interest in the news (or even anybody that can't receive it) and therefore it can't be mentioned.

    BT have been getting glowing reviews for it's 4K showing across most of the industry and a lot of the industry are also very keen to hear about where they are going with it. The same as I will be interested to hear what SKY offer when they announce it (even though I don't have SKY Q).


    As much as certain people will hate to admit it the majority of people will agree that BT Sport (and even BT TV) has been a massive success :-

    'At the end of the year, the BT Consumer division broke the 1.5 million TV customer barrier, an increase of 28% since the start of the year. The company expanded significantly its TV offer during the 12 months and in July 2015 launched Europe’s first live sports Ultra HD (4K) channel, BT Sport Ultra HD. BT Sport’s average daily audience figures increased 45% year-on-year, from the start of the football season in August to the end of March. For the same period, BT saw 39 match events with peak concurrent viewers of over one million. The highlight of the year was Liverpool’s much deserved triumph over arch-rivals Manchester United in the UEFA Europa League last 16 first leg clash at Anfield which generated a peak of more than two million viewers for the first time.'

  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 12:57PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Scott, genuine questions. Where does that figure of 10 million come from? Can you confirm that this is premises actually connected which can achieve 44 meg or more? And is that BT customers only, or all those served by the BTOR Network.
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 November 2016, 10:48AM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Redchiz...I am trying (and failing at the minute) to find the statement...It actually quoted that of the (now 25 Million) premises passed over sixty % of them could receive speeds in excess of the 45Mbps needed for UHD. The 10 million is my dumbed down 60% of 25 million (I know it is actually a lot higher than 10 million but I was being cautious till I could find the actual statement and I was quoting over 50Mbps). I will keep looking and link to it when I find it.

    Again that is those served by the BTOR network who could potentially get UHD (lets not start the argument again about having the wrong provider). It is hard to find exact data as most tests count anything over 30Mbps as the divide but obviously that is not quite enough to count for UHD at this moment in time. I agree it is a niche product with not too many takers at the minute but I also think it has enough potential customers to warrant it being discussed (I also think there are far more people that can get it if they wanted than most people try to make out).

    I will keep looking :-)

  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 12:57PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Thanks Scott. For the record, I'm not decrying it as a niche product, rather that the infrastructure required to receive it has such a limited penetration. There will be those who would like to receive the service but cannot and imo will not for many years to come. I am critical also of those who sell a popular product to a carrier who has such limitations.
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 November 2016, 10:48AM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    If only more detailed reports were available because I am led to believe that close to 15 Million people would be able to get it (if they wanted it), which hardly makes it limited penetration..but I am sure we could argue about who can and can't get it all day without any of us really being able to prove it :-)

  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 12:57PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    15 million just seems a bit ambitious, even if it does include all customers of every other ISP bar Virgin moving to BT in order to "be able to get it." I have just done a speedtest via Ookla which, coincidentally, came in at just over 44 meg and tells me that this is "faster than 83% of GB." So confused and bemused just about covers it!
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 November 2016, 10:48AM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    That could change quite dramatically when Infinity1 becomes 52Mbps rather than 38Mbps. It could mean the other 83% are all getting 38Mbps so you would still be faster but only by a few Mbps...Remember fibre only has a 22% take up rate at the minute and of that 22% a lot will be on Infinity1....It doesn't really prove anything..

    At the minute people just don't think they need more than 38Mbps or even 24Mbps the fools :-)


    Also people with fast speeds don't tend to do speedtest's as much as people with slower speeds ;-)

  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,055 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:40AM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Hi Scott

    I have no interest in suppressing discussion of anything. Are you confusing me with the suppressive person higher up in this thread?

    What was germane about the numbers was how relatively small they were, and that was (and is) a legitimate subject for discussion, and indeed was being discussed as such.

    But there is no critical number below which we should stop discussing things. Just one, which if it does not grow quickly, will leave BT with a large dollop of egg on its face.

    But apropos of the potential market for anything, I am irresistibly reminded of the great dot com boom and bust, where many thousands of failed business plans were predicated on getting even a tiny percentage of some potential market, on the 'better mousetrap' principle that punters would flock to this and that new whizzy-dizzy website.

    And failed to attract even a tiny percentage of that tiny percentage.... :-(
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,175 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:06PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    'But apropos of the potential market for anything, I am irresistibly reminded of the great dot com boom and bust, where many thousands of failed business plans were predicated on getting even a tiny percentage of some potential market, on the 'better mousetrap' principle that punters would flock to this and that new whizzy-dizzy website.'

    In truth 4K is the future (3D a failed fad). Even you yourself have invested in such equipment. Its very early days, but the industry is getting there. In the last 12 months the sale of 4K TVs has increased 125%. Though consumption of such will be via 4K Blurays, the internet and satellite.

    Take Sky Q as an example, it has attracted 40,000 early adoptors, with many posting they have done so on the promise of 4K content being available, when its form or numbers of content haven't even been announced yet. They just know its coming. But Sky have recently said live TV will be minimal and the majority on demand.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • David8David8 Member Posts: 655 ✭✭
    edited 15 December 2016, 1:16PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    To be fair at the moment whilst it's not always the best quality you have to take your hat off to Netflix who are now filming and making the majority of its original content available in 4K.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 12:57PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Be careful guys, this is a BT Sport topic, somebody will complain soon. ;)

    And to be fair to Netflix they do not have to concern themselves with the delivery system too much, only boasting that the content is "available."
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,175 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:06PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Netflix have a delivery system thats on a par with YouViews. Cost them £450m, as well. They are here to stay.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 12:57PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Tsk tsk, off topic again.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,175 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:06PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Stop it red. This is all relevant and a topic of high interest.  
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • David8David8 Member Posts: 655 ✭✭
    edited 15 December 2016, 1:16PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    I'll be intrigued to see the available times with Sky Q UHD On Demand. Currently HD on my fibre connection becomes available to start in a matter of seconds.

    I'm presuming Sky Sports Live content will differ from BT Sport UHD in that it will be delivered over satellite.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,175 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:06PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Live TV over satellite. I've seen a bit rate of 29Mbps mentioned, though the trials were done at 35. On demand over ones internet connection. That will behave the same as a SKY HD box. Download to disc and from there to the Q and TV using progressive download.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 12:57PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Luckily for Netflix, as a buffered on demand streaming service only, they require just a tiny 25 meg for UHD. Back to live delivery now. Any advance on 44?
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,175 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:06PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    They deliver it at 19Mbps in HVEC, using a bespoke content delivery network.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 12:57PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    I was just going by Netflix's own figures, where did you get yours from? But hey-ho, let's call it 19 meg, it doesn't matter what abbreviations or bespoke content delivery network you have in place if the infrastructure isn't up to it, eh?
  • David8David8 Member Posts: 655 ✭✭
    edited 15 December 2016, 1:16PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Interestingly it would appear both BT and Sky use Elemental Technologies Live software to deliver their content with the latter having an equity investment in the company.
    http://www.elementaltechnologies.com/...
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,175 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:06PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Yes, there are many collaborations demonstrating convergence. Accenture service them both as well, and YouView.
    http://www.12newsnow.com/story/31825824/accenture-test-automation-assures-sky-q-customers-a-fluid-vi... 
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • David8David8 Member Posts: 655 ✭✭
    edited 15 December 2016, 1:16PM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Whilst Sky did take an equity investment I'm sure they've since been bought by AWS (Amazon Web Services).
    It would also appear the BBC and ITV also use them for live TV encoding with Sky Go , Now TV and BT's TV everywhere also relying on the product.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,055 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:40AM
    Visionman said:

    Ultra HD coverage is going to be extended to the FA Cup from next season, as the FA, the BBC and BT extend their deal until 2021.
    http://www.thefa.com/news/the-fa-cup/2016/apr/broadcast-deal-woth-bbc-and-bt-sport-extended-120416

    Hi Visionman

    In my NSHO, BluRay is dead, it just hasn't noticed that yet. 4K BluRay will be a niche of a niche.

    Yes, I have 4K TVs, and I've even watched 4K material on them, from satellite or YouTube. And I really must take up my free Netflix 4K trial offer.....

    But nobody was offering me the hard choice of premium-quality HD or quotidien UHD at sensible prices, or premium UHD at premium prices; rather, that if I wanted a near-top-of-the-range TV these days, it was going to be a 4K one.

    Much as, a while back, it was going to be a 3D HD one.

    But 4K is here to stay, though I fear you are right about 3D. Might have a resurgence if they can get away from the glasses?

    An interesting theory is that the next big thing is going to be HDR more than 4K, though the two do go together.

    But if you want a good TV set today, it will likely be a 4K one, and having got it, people will perhaps want something to watch on it.

    Which for those of us 44 meg have-nots, is going to mean downloads. That, I think, is where it is going. Lots of 4K content, readily available online, streamed hot if your broadband will support it, streamed in the background for later consumption if it can't.

    I expect BT will do this, and their 4K YouView boxes will need to support it, and then they can reach far more people than they can with 4K at present.

    But downloaded footy, time-shifted, sort of takes the gilt off the gingerbread, doesnt it?
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
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