scart

Adam7Adam7 Posts: 2Member
edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM in Archived Posts
I'm having some trouble setting up the youview box with my system.

I'm using a automatic scart selector and have plugged the youview into this along with all my other boxes. All works fine until I switch off the youview box. Initially, when I switch off I am able to view my other freeview box with no problems until the youview box goes into its deep sleep mode (approx 5 mins later). This seems to send a block signal to the scart selector and I cannot access to my other freeview box.

I have tried changing the loop through setting but I think this is just for the aerial and not the scart connector.

I have also tried changing the eco setting to low and I think this fixes the problem because the youview box doesn't go into its deep sleep mode. However, this isn't really the answer as it's now using more energy all of the time.

Is there any solution to stopping this deep sleep mode sending out a block signal on one of the scart pins?

I hope all of the above makes sense!

Thanks & Regards,
Adam

Comments

  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,813Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Firstly, can you use an HDMI connector instead of SCART and avoid the problem altogether?

    But if not:-

    The 'block signal' would imply that your YouView box, when going into its deep sleep, pulls up pin 8, erroneously indicating that it is 'on', grabbing the autoswitch, and then displaying the resulting blank screen.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART

    You could open the SCART cable at one end and snip the wire to pin 8. But then it will no longer turn on the TV automatically, nor select the correct aspect ratio. Though that last is a no-brainer, as YouView boxes are always 16:9.

    I don't know how auto your autoswitch is, but I am surprised you can't override it. Alternatively, does it do prioritising, so swapping the YouView box and other Freeview box SCARTs into the autoswitch means your Freeview box will always get priority, instead of the YouView box always getting it?

    At which point it occurs to me to ask what the Freeview box does that the YouView box doesn't, such that you still need both? Stretchyvision perhaps, where old 4:3 programmes can be stretched to 16:9 where the YouView box insists on an undistorted picture, thereby forcing the black bars on you?

    But the issue you describe has not been reported before that I recall, though we do know there is a similar bug with HDMI where the connection stays 'hot', disrupting HDMI autoswitchers. Perhaps this has the same root cause?

    Or it might even be a one-off quirk with your box, which might vanish if you do a soft reset. When not recording, and with the box on, press the standby button for just over 8 seconds. The box will reset, without losing any of your settings, tunings or recordings, but might, just possibly, lose your problem.

    But if none of the above suit, please come back, and tell us which box you have, from which supplier, and what the software version is, and we'll see what else is possible.
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • Adam7Adam7 Posts: 2Member
    edited 9 June 2014, 5:40PM
    Firstly, thanks for your post and your suggestions.

    To answer some of your questions.

    I don't have a television that supports HDMI. My telly is too old for such things.

    My scart auto switch does have a priority slot but that is filled with my DVD player.

    My youview box is the non-recording type and that is why I still have my Humax 9200T connected as my other freeview box.

    I will try the soft reset you suggested and see what happens.

    It's a bit frustrating that all is well in the light sleep mode but this quirk appears when in deep sleep mode.
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    I have a similar setup to yours Adam. Mine does exactly the same thing. Irritating, isn't it?!
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 11:03PM
    jonesh said:

    I have a similar setup to yours Adam. Mine does exactly the same thing. Irritating, isn't it?!

    My YouView box goes into a Keene Electronics SCART Commander along with other pieces of FreeView equipment. The SCART Commander box auto-switches between the attached boxes on a last one on basis. Thus, (say), if another box is recording and I turn the YouView box on, it will switch to it automatically. The difference betweent the YouView box and the other attached boxes is that it doesn't let go when it is switched off. The SCART Commander thinks that the YouView box it is still on and doesn't automatically switch as it should to any other box that is subsequently turned on. A soft reset doesn't cure the problem. It isn't a major issue, because the SCART Commander has a remote for manual switching between sources, but the YouView box does seem to have a pin 8 problem that the other attached boxes don't have.

    Re your point Keith, about why use other boxes when I have got a YouView box. My response is: Why abandon pefectly good PVRs with brilliant and logical UIs, just because another box has come along with a well documented markedly inferior and illogical one! Also, I can't transfer my recordings from a YouView box to back them up, so I lose them when the box fails.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,813Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:39AM
    jonesh said:

    I have a similar setup to yours Adam. Mine does exactly the same thing. Irritating, isn't it?!

    Hi jonesh

    I think it was me, Roy, and not Keith, who asked Adam why he wanted to still use the other box (he didn't specify 'PVR' so it might have been a set-top box for all I knew).

    This was not to express incredulity, but to enquire as to the reason for keeping it (of which there are indeed many sensible ones, as you have listed).  It helps for helpers to know such things....

    Re your autoswitch, there's something I hope you can clarify for me. You say it switches to the last device turned on? And (with the YouView box completely disconnected) will it do this even if an earlier device is still 'live', or will the earlier device retain precedence?

    If the later device normally takes precedence even if the earlier device is still on, then the YouView box, in preventing this, must be doing a bit more than just holding pin 8 high - it must be cycling the voltage on pin 8, or somesuch.

    And what does the YouView box do when it's actually On - does it still misbehave and prevent any other device taking over, while all your other devices behave as they should?

    But if the earlier device retains precedence if that earlier device is On, then the YouView box is just staying logically (pin 8) On, even when it's in standby.

    You don't say, but it would be helpful to know, which YouView box you have and from where, what software release it is on, and whether you are running it in High Eco Mode or Low Eco Mode.

    Also, I recall Adam's very specific mention that his box behaves as it should in Low Eco Mode, and for the first five minutes or so in High Eco Mode.Does your box behave exactly like this, or does it never behave like it should?

    Though whatever is going on with either or both boxes, this does sound like something YouView should be looking at, so if they don't pick this up from here, you each might want to log it on the YouView support line.


    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Thank you for your reply Roy. Apologies to you and Keith for getting your names mixed up. I was having a quick lunchtime look at the forum and decided in haste to do a comment to expand on my unhelpful reply of yesterday, with inevitable consequences. Having re-read Adam's original post and your reply, I realise that the problem with my setup is different to Adam's, but that may be because his SCART switch behaves differently from mine. I do think that they have the same root cause. I have done a bit of research and I hope that I can answer your questions.

    The SCART Commander switches to the last device turned on, regardless of whether previously switched on devices are on or off. I assume that is what you mean by "live". If the last switched on device is switched off, the Commander switches back to the device switched on before that last one(!). got it? Sorry. The working of the SCART box is much simpler than it sounds. It is perfectly intuitive. Honest.

    It works as it should except for when the YouView box is the last device switched on. It switches to it as it should, but it doesn't switch to the previously switched on device when the YouView box is switched off. Not at first, any way. I have just tried and the switch back happens some five or ten minutes after the box is switched off. It makes no difference if it is in high or low eco mode. If I turn the box off using the switch on the back, the switch back happens immediately.

    When the YouView box is on and another device is turned on, the SCART switch switches to the latest device as it should.

    I agree with you that the YouView box is staying with pin 8 on when it's in standby, but only for a while. I didn't actually time it, but it was probably getting on for ten minutes. It seemed to be a lot longer than that though!

    It really is no big deal. The SCART Commander has a remote to override the automatic behaviour anyway, but I am sad enough to find it irritating. I should get out more.
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 11:03PM
    jonesh said:

    Thank you for your reply Roy. Apologies to you and Keith for getting your names mixed up. I was having a quick lunchtime look at the forum and decided in haste to do a comment to expand on my unhelpful reply of yesterday, with inevitable consequences. Having re-read Adam's original post and your reply, I realise that the problem with my setup is different to Adam's, but that may be because his SCART switch behaves differently from mine. I do think that they have the same root cause. I have done a bit of research and I hope that I can answer your questions.

    The SCART Commander switches to the last device turned on, regardless of whether previously switched on devices are on or off. I assume that is what you mean by "live". If the last switched on device is switched off, the Commander switches back to the device switched on before that last one(!). got it? Sorry. The working of the SCART box is much simpler than it sounds. It is perfectly intuitive. Honest.

    It works as it should except for when the YouView box is the last device switched on. It switches to it as it should, but it doesn't switch to the previously switched on device when the YouView box is switched off. Not at first, any way. I have just tried and the switch back happens some five or ten minutes after the box is switched off. It makes no difference if it is in high or low eco mode. If I turn the box off using the switch on the back, the switch back happens immediately.

    When the YouView box is on and another device is turned on, the SCART switch switches to the latest device as it should.

    I agree with you that the YouView box is staying with pin 8 on when it's in standby, but only for a while. I didn't actually time it, but it was probably getting on for ten minutes. It seemed to be a lot longer than that though!

    It really is no big deal. The SCART Commander has a remote to override the automatic behaviour anyway, but I am sad enough to find it irritating. I should get out more.

    I forgot this bit: it is a BT DTRT1000,

    18.3.0
    1.5.6
    1017
    90
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 11:03PM
    jonesh said:

    Thank you for your reply Roy. Apologies to you and Keith for getting your names mixed up. I was having a quick lunchtime look at the forum and decided in haste to do a comment to expand on my unhelpful reply of yesterday, with inevitable consequences. Having re-read Adam's original post and your reply, I realise that the problem with my setup is different to Adam's, but that may be because his SCART switch behaves differently from mine. I do think that they have the same root cause. I have done a bit of research and I hope that I can answer your questions.

    The SCART Commander switches to the last device turned on, regardless of whether previously switched on devices are on or off. I assume that is what you mean by "live". If the last switched on device is switched off, the Commander switches back to the device switched on before that last one(!). got it? Sorry. The working of the SCART box is much simpler than it sounds. It is perfectly intuitive. Honest.

    It works as it should except for when the YouView box is the last device switched on. It switches to it as it should, but it doesn't switch to the previously switched on device when the YouView box is switched off. Not at first, any way. I have just tried and the switch back happens some five or ten minutes after the box is switched off. It makes no difference if it is in high or low eco mode. If I turn the box off using the switch on the back, the switch back happens immediately.

    When the YouView box is on and another device is turned on, the SCART switch switches to the latest device as it should.

    I agree with you that the YouView box is staying with pin 8 on when it's in standby, but only for a while. I didn't actually time it, but it was probably getting on for ten minutes. It seemed to be a lot longer than that though!

    It really is no big deal. The SCART Commander has a remote to override the automatic behaviour anyway, but I am sad enough to find it irritating. I should get out more.

    Wrong again! In my previous post I said that it makes no difference if it is in high or low eco mode. I was wrong. I set the YouView box to low eco mode and turned it off. The SCART switch didn't switch to a previously turned on device, so I assumed that the behaviour was the same as that of the high eco mode. I left it at that and came to write my previous post. I have just checked and the switch still hasn't done its stuff. In other words, after getting on for two hours pin 8 is still live, or high, or whatever is the correct term. I don't think that the box is going to let go now, but I will leave it a while longer to see what happens.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,813Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:39AM
    jonesh said:

    Thank you for your reply Roy. Apologies to you and Keith for getting your names mixed up. I was having a quick lunchtime look at the forum and decided in haste to do a comment to expand on my unhelpful reply of yesterday, with inevitable consequences. Having re-read Adam's original post and your reply, I realise that the problem with my setup is different to Adam's, but that may be because his SCART switch behaves differently from mine. I do think that they have the same root cause. I have done a bit of research and I hope that I can answer your questions.

    The SCART Commander switches to the last device turned on, regardless of whether previously switched on devices are on or off. I assume that is what you mean by "live". If the last switched on device is switched off, the Commander switches back to the device switched on before that last one(!). got it? Sorry. The working of the SCART box is much simpler than it sounds. It is perfectly intuitive. Honest.

    It works as it should except for when the YouView box is the last device switched on. It switches to it as it should, but it doesn't switch to the previously switched on device when the YouView box is switched off. Not at first, any way. I have just tried and the switch back happens some five or ten minutes after the box is switched off. It makes no difference if it is in high or low eco mode. If I turn the box off using the switch on the back, the switch back happens immediately.

    When the YouView box is on and another device is turned on, the SCART switch switches to the latest device as it should.

    I agree with you that the YouView box is staying with pin 8 on when it's in standby, but only for a while. I didn't actually time it, but it was probably getting on for ten minutes. It seemed to be a lot longer than that though!

    It really is no big deal. The SCART Commander has a remote to override the automatic behaviour anyway, but I am sad enough to find it irritating. I should get out more.

    Hi jonesh

    Thanks for all that.

    After posting before, I looked up the manual for your switch, very much helped by your nice specific naming of it.

    There it says that it detects not just activity on pin 8 , but also on pin 16 and the video pins as well.

    So yes, as you say, the difference between what you see and what Adam sees could be down to differences in the switches you use, and there could be a single YouView box problem covering both.

    But there certainly does seem to be a YouView box problem here, so let us summon the YouView mods to look at this.

    They don't need either switch that you and Adam have, though these might be useful; they should be able to detect the issue(s) on the bench, just by monitoring the pin outs on the SCART socket and seeing if one or more of them stays high when it should be pulled down.

    After which, perhaps, they can invite the box maker(s) into the conversation pit for a discussion about it - ( (c) Monty Python)
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 11:03PM
    jonesh said:

    Thank you for your reply Roy. Apologies to you and Keith for getting your names mixed up. I was having a quick lunchtime look at the forum and decided in haste to do a comment to expand on my unhelpful reply of yesterday, with inevitable consequences. Having re-read Adam's original post and your reply, I realise that the problem with my setup is different to Adam's, but that may be because his SCART switch behaves differently from mine. I do think that they have the same root cause. I have done a bit of research and I hope that I can answer your questions.

    The SCART Commander switches to the last device turned on, regardless of whether previously switched on devices are on or off. I assume that is what you mean by "live". If the last switched on device is switched off, the Commander switches back to the device switched on before that last one(!). got it? Sorry. The working of the SCART box is much simpler than it sounds. It is perfectly intuitive. Honest.

    It works as it should except for when the YouView box is the last device switched on. It switches to it as it should, but it doesn't switch to the previously switched on device when the YouView box is switched off. Not at first, any way. I have just tried and the switch back happens some five or ten minutes after the box is switched off. It makes no difference if it is in high or low eco mode. If I turn the box off using the switch on the back, the switch back happens immediately.

    When the YouView box is on and another device is turned on, the SCART switch switches to the latest device as it should.

    I agree with you that the YouView box is staying with pin 8 on when it's in standby, but only for a while. I didn't actually time it, but it was probably getting on for ten minutes. It seemed to be a lot longer than that though!

    It really is no big deal. The SCART Commander has a remote to override the automatic behaviour anyway, but I am sad enough to find it irritating. I should get out more.

    I can't see that happening Roy. They would be unlikely to spent time and money on what is after all a legacy connection.

    Mind you, the YouView Core Technical Specification says:

    Devices shall have at least one SCART connector supporting RGB and composite video.
    Devices may have an additional AUX SCART connector but this is not required. If present, loop-through of composite video, RGB video and audio inputs from this SCART to the primary SCART shall be provided whilst in standby and under pin 8 control.

    I don't fully understand that, but I suppose that as long as a SCART socket is part of the YouView spec then they should make it work as it is supposed to.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,813Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Well spotted - I hadn't seen that.

    What it means is that with an AUX SCART, it's supposed to work similarly to how the aerial signal works, so if you have something feeding into the AUX socket, it continues to feed out of the main SCART even if the YouView box is put into standby.

    (Bearing in mind that nothing feeding into either SCART socket can be used by the YouView box ).

    And the 'under pin 8 control' means that if the YouView box detects a pin 8 signal into the AUX socket, then it is to pass the signal on to the main SCART. As contrasted with your switcher, say, which monitors other pins as well, YouView require only that pin 8 be monitored here.

    As all the current YouView boxes do not have an AUX SCART, AFAIK, the above might seem academic. However, it does mean that the spec at least allows for a 'hot' main SCART in Standby, and it's possible this is being erroneously implemented.

    By, say, deeming in the firmware logic that 'pin 8' of some mythical AUX SCART is to be regarded as hot.

    Though there are many other mechanisms by which the design or implementation might have got this area wrong...
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    So a possible reason why pin 8 is hot when the YouView box is in standby is that a signal is being detected in an imaginary AUX SCART socket and it is being passed throught to the main SCART socket, causing pin 8 to go hot. I find that explanation entirely plausible. An iSCART socket!
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,813Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:39AM
    jonesh said:

    So a possible reason why pin 8 is hot when the YouView box is in standby is that a signal is being detected in an imaginary AUX SCART socket and it is being passed throught to the main SCART socket, causing pin 8 to go hot. I find that explanation entirely plausible. An iSCART socket!

    Exactly so, though I presume that i is the square root of -1, or else I am writing this on an imaginary Pad :-)

    YouView will feel an obligation to get this fixed though; even though SCART may be legacy, it is provided on the box, and it should work properly.

    Indeed I hope so, as although my TV is fed via HDMI, my Slingbox is connected to the SCART, as HDCP makes feeding it from an HD digital connection a world of hurt :-(

    YouView did work to resolve the longstanding issue whereby you couldn't get the menus over SCART when you also had HDMI connected, though, so they certainly do pay attention to SCART issues. Eventually :-)
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 11:03PM
    jonesh said:

    So a possible reason why pin 8 is hot when the YouView box is in standby is that a signal is being detected in an imaginary AUX SCART socket and it is being passed throught to the main SCART socket, causing pin 8 to go hot. I find that explanation entirely plausible. An iSCART socket!

    Yes, I do mean the i in the i = SQRT(-1) rather than its current usage in the naming of Apple products. In theory a box could have any number of iSCART sockets, but for technical reasons there would probably be an upper limit on the number that could be incorporated into any one box. I also predict the existence of complex SCART sockets, which are of course a combination of real and imaginary sockets.

    It will be interesting to see if YouView fix the pin 8 bug. I wonder if the newer boxes behave in the same way?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,813Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:39AM
    jonesh said:

    So a possible reason why pin 8 is hot when the YouView box is in standby is that a signal is being detected in an imaginary AUX SCART socket and it is being passed throught to the main SCART socket, causing pin 8 to go hot. I find that explanation entirely plausible. An iSCART socket!

    I want a MandelSCART socket, which will output an infinite number of pretty patterns :-)
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 11:03PM
    jonesh said:

    So a possible reason why pin 8 is hot when the YouView box is in standby is that a signal is being detected in an imaginary AUX SCART socket and it is being passed throught to the main SCART socket, causing pin 8 to go hot. I find that explanation entirely plausible. An iSCART socket!

    The images would be heavily Fractalated.
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 6:40PM
    I have reported the pin 8 issue on the YouView support line Roy.
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Other than the automated reply, I haven't heard from YouView Support, Roy. Until today, when I received this email:

    Thank you for your recent enquiry to the YouView Customer Service department.

    We would like to invite you to participate in a brief survey about the service you received from us to identify strengths and opportunities for improvements.

    Please click the link below to be directed to the survey.

    Thank you in advance for your time

    Strange! I haven't completed the survey, but I have contacted them again in the hope that I will hear something constructive from them.
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 11:03PM
    jonesh said:

    Other than the automated reply, I haven't heard from YouView Support, Roy. Until today, when I received this email:

    Thank you for your recent enquiry to the YouView Customer Service department.

    We would like to invite you to participate in a brief survey about the service you received from us to identify strengths and opportunities for improvements.

    Please click the link below to be directed to the survey.

    Thank you in advance for your time

    Strange! I haven't completed the survey, but I have contacted them again in the hope that I will hear something constructive from them.

    I have heard from the YouView Support team now. They have informed me that the SCART problem has been forwarded to the YouView Technical Development Team.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,813Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:39AM
    jonesh said:

    Other than the automated reply, I haven't heard from YouView Support, Roy. Until today, when I received this email:

    Thank you for your recent enquiry to the YouView Customer Service department.

    We would like to invite you to participate in a brief survey about the service you received from us to identify strengths and opportunities for improvements.

    Please click the link below to be directed to the survey.

    Thank you in advance for your time

    Strange! I haven't completed the survey, but I have contacted them again in the hope that I will hear something constructive from them.

    Excellent. Let's see what they come up with!
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 11:03PM
    jonesh said:

    Other than the automated reply, I haven't heard from YouView Support, Roy. Until today, when I received this email:

    Thank you for your recent enquiry to the YouView Customer Service department.

    We would like to invite you to participate in a brief survey about the service you received from us to identify strengths and opportunities for improvements.

    Please click the link below to be directed to the survey.

    Thank you in advance for your time

    Strange! I haven't completed the survey, but I have contacted them again in the hope that I will hear something constructive from them.

    They have come up with this:

    Our Device Management team have conducted tests on the issue you had reported and have provided us with the following results:

    The YouView box has  two different types of Standby modes:

    ACTIVE STANDBY – The box is placed into standby and after a short period of time it transitions into active standby.

    DEEP STANDBY (High Eco Mode) – The box enters into deep standby. This can take up to 5-6 minutes to go into Deep Standby after entering the Active Standby mode.

    When tested in Active Standby the Pin 8 Voltage meter indicates the video signal is present. This is the expected behavior. The Scart will remain active so that you can come out of standby quicker.

    When tested in Deep Standby (High Eco Mode) the Pin 8 Voltage meter shows no volts at all indicating no signal from the Scart.

    In High Eco Mode the box will enter active standby first. After the transition from active standby to Deep Standby it will then shut down the hardware components.

    In your particular case, if you put the box into High Eco Mode and put it into standby, wait approximately 5-6 minutes and then the box should enter Deep Standby and the Scart will no longer be active.

    We hope that helps.

    I don't know what you think Roy, but I find that response quite irritating. All that they have done is tell me what I told them, missing the point completely that it shouldn't behave like that.

    Ahh well. Never mind eh!

  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,813Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    jonesh

    Let's separate their objective findings from their interpretation of why it works like that.

    The objective findings are much as I expected.

    Adam, the OP, reports the exact opposite, though, which has always entirely puzzled me. I wonder if he got it backwards? But he seems to be no longer here to ask :-(

    As regards the interpretation, let's take the key sentences:-

    In your particular case, if you put the box into High Eco Mode and put it into standby, wait approximately 5-6 minutes and then the box should enter Deep Standby and the Scart will no longer be active.

    We hope that helps.


    Forgetting, perhaps, or ignoring, that this course of action is not open to those who want to use the YouView app on iOS or Android, and is anyway inconvenient for those who have elected fast startup.

    But to have to have to wait two minutes each time your box starts up, for the sake of it letting go of your SCART socket 'only' some 5-6 minutes after you want it to? Not an attractive solution :-(

    As regards:-

    When tested in Active Standby the Pin 8 Voltage meter indicates the video signal is present. This is the expected behavior. The Scart will remain active so that you can come out of standby quicker.

    well, I have to be circumlocutory. But I have just driven across Spain, where on hillsides everywhere stand the famous emblems of Osborne's brandy:-

    image

    The emblem is anatomically correct, as you will see, and the details that make it so apply here :-)

    They might as well argue that the screen should stay on so you can come out of standby quicker.

    But it's a nonsense anyway; they could, and should, switch pin 8 on and off with the screen signal, which would take no extra time at all.
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    I had to look up the meaning of circumlocutory, Roy, but if you are saying that their response is a load of something to do with a bull's anatomy or possible what one emits, then I agree with you.

    I know that I have wasted my time, but I sent them this reply yesterday:

    Thank you for your reply, in which you reported to me the idiosyncratic behaviour of the box that I reported to you. You also attempted to justify the behaviour by saying that the SCART will remain active so that you can come out of standby quicker.

    I do not understand why you attempted to justify the behaviour of the box when in its different standby modes. The fact that pin 8 stays high when the box is in either of its two standby modes makes no sense whatsoever. Standby means exactly what it says - a readiness to be active at short notice. When a box is in standby it should not indicate to other equipment connected to a system that a video signal is present when clearly, one is not. Other equipment that I use does not do this when it is in standby mode, and neither should a YouView box. This issue has been raised before on the YouView Community Forum.

     Our box gets quite a bit of use and I have always tried to support YouView on another forum where it comes in for a lot of stick. After their response to this issue, I don't think that I will bother in future. As for the line "This is the expected behavior", it doesn't really bother me if they don't sort the problem out, but at least they should accept that the behaviour of the SCART socket switching is not as it should be. They should also learn to spell correctly in UK English!

    I can't think of a reason why Adam's box appears to behave in the opposite way. 

  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 11:03PM
    jonesh said:

    I had to look up the meaning of circumlocutory, Roy, but if you are saying that their response is a load of something to do with a bull's anatomy or possible what one emits, then I agree with you.

    I know that I have wasted my time, but I sent them this reply yesterday:

    Thank you for your reply, in which you reported to me the idiosyncratic behaviour of the box that I reported to you. You also attempted to justify the behaviour by saying that the SCART will remain active so that you can come out of standby quicker.

    I do not understand why you attempted to justify the behaviour of the box when in its different standby modes. The fact that pin 8 stays high when the box is in either of its two standby modes makes no sense whatsoever. Standby means exactly what it says - a readiness to be active at short notice. When a box is in standby it should not indicate to other equipment connected to a system that a video signal is present when clearly, one is not. Other equipment that I use does not do this when it is in standby mode, and neither should a YouView box. This issue has been raised before on the YouView Community Forum.

     Our box gets quite a bit of use and I have always tried to support YouView on another forum where it comes in for a lot of stick. After their response to this issue, I don't think that I will bother in future. As for the line "This is the expected behavior", it doesn't really bother me if they don't sort the problem out, but at least they should accept that the behaviour of the SCART socket switching is not as it should be. They should also learn to spell correctly in UK English!

    I can't think of a reason why Adam's box appears to behave in the opposite way. 

    This is their reply to my second email, Roy:

    In Low Eco Mode, when the box is on Active standby it needs to be ready to start up quicker. In doing so a video signal is present through the scart connection and not all hardware components are powered down. In High Eco mode, the box goes into a deeper standby .During this process of going into deeper standby for a brief period there is activity through the connection. The box will then transition into deep standby where there will be no activity through the scart connection.

    They have simply repeated what they said last time and what we already know. I don't think that they are going to admit that the box shouldn't actually do that.

  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,813Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:39AM
    jonesh said:

    I had to look up the meaning of circumlocutory, Roy, but if you are saying that their response is a load of something to do with a bull's anatomy or possible what one emits, then I agree with you.

    I know that I have wasted my time, but I sent them this reply yesterday:

    Thank you for your reply, in which you reported to me the idiosyncratic behaviour of the box that I reported to you. You also attempted to justify the behaviour by saying that the SCART will remain active so that you can come out of standby quicker.

    I do not understand why you attempted to justify the behaviour of the box when in its different standby modes. The fact that pin 8 stays high when the box is in either of its two standby modes makes no sense whatsoever. Standby means exactly what it says - a readiness to be active at short notice. When a box is in standby it should not indicate to other equipment connected to a system that a video signal is present when clearly, one is not. Other equipment that I use does not do this when it is in standby mode, and neither should a YouView box. This issue has been raised before on the YouView Community Forum.

     Our box gets quite a bit of use and I have always tried to support YouView on another forum where it comes in for a lot of stick. After their response to this issue, I don't think that I will bother in future. As for the line "This is the expected behavior", it doesn't really bother me if they don't sort the problem out, but at least they should accept that the behaviour of the SCART socket switching is not as it should be. They should also learn to spell correctly in UK English!

    I can't think of a reason why Adam's box appears to behave in the opposite way. 

    Possibly a moderator will happen along, note the self-evident nonsense that the tech department are spouting (something that can be cross-checked with just about any other piece of equipment on the market), and log a change request that will be a victory for common sense?

    Phil? Sanj?
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • SanjSanj Posts: 1,644Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 6:56PM
    jonesh said:

    I had to look up the meaning of circumlocutory, Roy, but if you are saying that their response is a load of something to do with a bull's anatomy or possible what one emits, then I agree with you.

    I know that I have wasted my time, but I sent them this reply yesterday:

    Thank you for your reply, in which you reported to me the idiosyncratic behaviour of the box that I reported to you. You also attempted to justify the behaviour by saying that the SCART will remain active so that you can come out of standby quicker.

    I do not understand why you attempted to justify the behaviour of the box when in its different standby modes. The fact that pin 8 stays high when the box is in either of its two standby modes makes no sense whatsoever. Standby means exactly what it says - a readiness to be active at short notice. When a box is in standby it should not indicate to other equipment connected to a system that a video signal is present when clearly, one is not. Other equipment that I use does not do this when it is in standby mode, and neither should a YouView box. This issue has been raised before on the YouView Community Forum.

     Our box gets quite a bit of use and I have always tried to support YouView on another forum where it comes in for a lot of stick. After their response to this issue, I don't think that I will bother in future. As for the line "This is the expected behavior", it doesn't really bother me if they don't sort the problem out, but at least they should accept that the behaviour of the SCART socket switching is not as it should be. They should also learn to spell correctly in UK English!

    I can't think of a reason why Adam's box appears to behave in the opposite way. 

    Hi Roy & jonesh,

    Apologies for not getting back to you both sooner. We actually took this back to our tech teams who have agreed that this is not quite right and have a ticket open for this. This will be investigated by our device management team. 

    Jonesh - Our viewer support team should have sent you an email explaining this too. 

    Thanks for your patience (and persistence).
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,248Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 11:03PM
    jonesh said:

    I had to look up the meaning of circumlocutory, Roy, but if you are saying that their response is a load of something to do with a bull's anatomy or possible what one emits, then I agree with you.

    I know that I have wasted my time, but I sent them this reply yesterday:

    Thank you for your reply, in which you reported to me the idiosyncratic behaviour of the box that I reported to you. You also attempted to justify the behaviour by saying that the SCART will remain active so that you can come out of standby quicker.

    I do not understand why you attempted to justify the behaviour of the box when in its different standby modes. The fact that pin 8 stays high when the box is in either of its two standby modes makes no sense whatsoever. Standby means exactly what it says - a readiness to be active at short notice. When a box is in standby it should not indicate to other equipment connected to a system that a video signal is present when clearly, one is not. Other equipment that I use does not do this when it is in standby mode, and neither should a YouView box. This issue has been raised before on the YouView Community Forum.

     Our box gets quite a bit of use and I have always tried to support YouView on another forum where it comes in for a lot of stick. After their response to this issue, I don't think that I will bother in future. As for the line "This is the expected behavior", it doesn't really bother me if they don't sort the problem out, but at least they should accept that the behaviour of the SCART socket switching is not as it should be. They should also learn to spell correctly in UK English!

    I can't think of a reason why Adam's box appears to behave in the opposite way. 

    Thanks Sanj. I did receive an email from the YouView Support Team informing me that the technical team agreed that the behaviour is not as expected. It will be interesting to see if a change is effected at some stage.
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