CBS Programme Times - missing ending

Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 227 ✭✭
edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM in Support
The old problem of missed endings again. Not had this for some while but since CBS Action has been on Freeview I have yet to record the end of any show I have recorded (tried the Streets of San Francisco and Hawaii 5-0, although it is really the latter I wanted).

I have written to CBS and got this acknowledgement (see reply 14/10 below), so by their own admission they are not transmitting within the times allotted for transmission. 

Is there anyway that YouView can bring any pressure to bear to get the companies that broadcast to keep to schedule or update the EPG as they go so we can get full recordings?

Until we get "padding" this will continue.

E-mail train as follows:

Me - 2/10/12
Comments: I receive CBS action via TalkTalk and now via Freeview.

I have yet to be able to record a programme in full without missing the end of a show. I had hoped his may have improved when you went to Freeview but I am still missing typically the last 2 minutes of every Hawaii 5-0 I record.

I appears that all programmes seem to end around 2 minutes late as I get the end of the previous shows recorded.

Could you please look into this as many PVR's rely on your transmission codes or if no code will only record for the exact hour a show is on.

Many thanks

CBS - 2/10/12
Hi Steve

Thank you for getting in touch. We are looking into this now and working on solving the issue.

Kind regards
CBS Action

Me - 14/10/12
Hi,

Could you update me on progress here please as I am still unable to get the end of programmes most notably The Streets of San Francisco and Hawaii 5-0.

TSOSF starts at 9am but by the time Hawaii starts your programming is around 3 minutes out and therefore the end of shows do not get recorded in the allotted time frames.

I tried again today and the results are the same.

CBS - 14/10/12

Hi Steve,

Sorry to hear you are still having problems. We have checked today’s schedule and  TSOSF ended at 10:00:46. Hawaii Five O started at 10:01:03 and finished at 11:01:23. We checked yesterday’s schedule and the timings were more or less the same.

In common with most TV channels we work to a time-frame of -1/+3 minutes of the billed times. Are you able to amend the parameters of your PVR to incorporate up to a 5 minute over-run on the recording? Most systems should allow this.

 

Kind regards,

CBS Action

Comments

  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,650 ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    They are talking round objects. The programmes may indeed be out by -1/+3 minutes, but the AR signals should follow suit.

    That's the whole point of an AR signal.

    I suggest you complain to Freeview that CBS Inaction are not following the mandated standards required of them in order to be a Freeview channel.
    I have a low opinion of people who press the Disagree button instead of engaging in reasoned debate. 
    I have an even lower opinion of YouView’s continued policy of letting such people hide behind the cloak of anonymity.
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 227 ✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 6:42PM
    Thanks Roy. i have written to CBS pointing this out as you have expressed it. If they don't come back I'll contact Freeview.
  • TomWTomW Member Posts: 501 ✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 6:42PM
    "Are you able to amend the parameters of your PVR to incorporate up to a 5 minute over-run on the recording? Most systems should allow this."

    *should* being the operative word.
  • Philip TrottPhilip Trott Administrator Posts: 1,040 admin
    edited 17 February 2017, 5:59PM
    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for flagging this with us, it is understandably frustrating so we will look into it from our side.

    Phil
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 227 ✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 6:42PM
    TomW said:

    "Are you able to amend the parameters of your PVR to incorporate up to a 5 minute over-run on the recording? Most systems should allow this."

    *should* being the operative word.

    No I have 2 Talktalk boxes and a Humax DTR1000 and they do not have padding options.
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 227 ✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 6:42PM
    Phil8 said:

    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for flagging this with us, it is understandably frustrating so we will look into it from our side.

    Phil

    Thanks Phil
  • TomWTomW Member Posts: 501 ✭✭
    edited 27 November 2016, 7:35PM
    TomW said:

    "Are you able to amend the parameters of your PVR to incorporate up to a 5 minute over-run on the recording? Most systems should allow this."

    *should* being the operative word.

    Oh sure, I know YouView doesn't offer padding. It has been an oft requested feature and my comment was somewhat tongue in cheek :-)
  • Nigel AshleyNigel Ashley Member Posts: 76
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    It isn't just CBS that is causing a problem. 2 weeks running I have booked Downton to record. It lasts just over an hour. Both weeks, the recording lasted over 3 hours meaning that other recordings have not happened. Once maybe but not twice. Clearly many broadcasters are not transmitting the correct start and finish times.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,650 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:39AM

    It isn't just CBS that is causing a problem. 2 weeks running I have booked Downton to record. It lasts just over an hour. Both weeks, the recording lasted over 3 hours meaning that other recordings have not happened. Once maybe but not twice. Clearly many broadcasters are not transmitting the correct start and finish times.

    I recorded Downton (oh the shame, but it was for my wife - still, that Lady Mary, eh?) and it worked perfectly. ITV HD from Ridge Hill, if it makes any difference.

    You might want to look elsewhere for your issue, therefore. If you haven't tried it, or at least not tried it recently, I recommend you touch the standby button for just over eight seconds when the box is not recording, and let it soft reset.

    Cures all sorts of ills. Including when we (sorry, I mean just my wife) paused Downton 35 minutes in so we could watch UC, and then went back only to see the programmed flagged as watched, and the slider back at the beginning.

    Easily remedied, though. And after a later soft reset, as above, testing revealed that the box could once again remember what we left off, and where.
    I have a low opinion of people who press the Disagree button instead of engaging in reasoned debate. 
    I have an even lower opinion of YouView’s continued policy of letting such people hide behind the cloak of anonymity.
  • Nigel AshleyNigel Ashley Member Posts: 76
    edited 31 March 2015, 12:16PM

    It isn't just CBS that is causing a problem. 2 weeks running I have booked Downton to record. It lasts just over an hour. Both weeks, the recording lasted over 3 hours meaning that other recordings have not happened. Once maybe but not twice. Clearly many broadcasters are not transmitting the correct start and finish times.

    Hi Roy
    I am on the Waltham transmitter and I still suspect that they are not transmitting properly. I also notice that if I record a plus one recording the start times times are out by about a minute.
    Thinking of reverting to my 6 year old Sagem - the one with "favourite" settings which renumber the programmes and also has padding. Shame that Youview cannot even introduce functions that were available years ago!
    Knowing what I now do, I would not have bought a Youview box - disappointment is an understatement
  • agdeweyagdewey Member Posts: 40
    edited 20 December 2016, 6:42PM
    Can someone from Youview please have a word with Drama too? Almost every recording is running 2 minutes late, so I regularly miss the end of programmes.
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 227 ✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 6:42PM
    agdewey said:

    Can someone from Youview please have a word with Drama too? Almost every recording is running 2 minutes late, so I regularly miss the end of programmes.

    Have you contacted Drama about this? Suggest you do so first with examples and paste that (and any reply here (or start a thread for Drama itself) so that YouView can follow up. Contact us form is here http://corporate.uktv.co.uk/about/contact-us/
  • agdeweyagdewey Member Posts: 40
    edited 14 June 2016, 5:02PM
    agdewey said:

    Can someone from Youview please have a word with Drama too? Almost every recording is running 2 minutes late, so I regularly miss the end of programmes.

    I tried contacting them a couple of weeks back, but got no response. I wasn't sure about starting a new thread, as it's related to this problem.
  • Philip TrottPhilip Trott Administrator Posts: 1,040 admin
    edited 17 February 2017, 5:59PM
    Hi guys,

    Just to update- we are still looking into this issue, and would advise in the interim that if you do experience a recording that hasn't completed correctly to let the support know (for CBS or Drama) in this instance.

    We are feeding back to the broadcasters in instances where this occurs with examples of the programmes. We may collect additional information shortly to pass on to them.

    I will update soon with more information.

    Thanks,

    Phil
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 227 ✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    Recorded some random programmes on CBS Action today - results below.

    Hawaii 5-0 due 4:05 - 4:55
    previous show still running at 4:05 and ends 56seconds later.
    Hawaii starts @ 1:28 into recording time.
    Ending is missing (from recording later in day same show around 3 mins early I think.

    Hawaii 5-0 due 10:00 - 11:00
    End credits of previous programme still playing - ends12 secs in.
    H5-0 starts 45 secs in
    Ending cuts off (over 1 min missing - see below)

    Star Trek next Gen due 11:00 - 12:00
    Hawaii ends 1:09 into recording
    STNG begins 1:37 in. Ending OK but...
    Star Trek due to start at 12:00 begins 48 secs early so recording it from 12:00 - 1:00 you would miss the opening segment (and the programme ended before the end credits started but you did get the last scene).

    I have tried Hawaii on and off over the last few weeks and the results are always similar - I have yet to get the end of any recording of this programme I have set at either the early morning recording or the 10am start.

    If you wish some more info then I am happy to provide by doing a similar exercise another day, but in the reply from CBS themselves they clearly keep records and are not adhering to the times stated by their own admissions, nor do they appear to send AR signals.

    It would seem that the issue may be on older programmes where their running time was longer than the newer ones (typically 50 mins as opposed to 43 for newer ones), but this could be remedied with AR.

    
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,650 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:39AM
    Stevef said:

    Recorded some random programmes on CBS Action today - results below.

    Hawaii 5-0 due 4:05 - 4:55
    previous show still running at 4:05 and ends 56seconds later.
    Hawaii starts @ 1:28 into recording time.
    Ending is missing (from recording later in day same show around 3 mins early I think.

    Hawaii 5-0 due 10:00 - 11:00
    End credits of previous programme still playing - ends12 secs in.
    H5-0 starts 45 secs in
    Ending cuts off (over 1 min missing - see below)

    Star Trek next Gen due 11:00 - 12:00
    Hawaii ends 1:09 into recording
    STNG begins 1:37 in. Ending OK but...
    Star Trek due to start at 12:00 begins 48 secs early so recording it from 12:00 - 1:00 you would miss the opening segment (and the programme ended before the end credits started but you did get the last scene).

    I have tried Hawaii on and off over the last few weeks and the results are always similar - I have yet to get the end of any recording of this programme I have set at either the early morning recording or the 10am start.

    If you wish some more info then I am happy to provide by doing a similar exercise another day, but in the reply from CBS themselves they clearly keep records and are not adhering to the times stated by their own admissions, nor do they appear to send AR signals.

    It would seem that the issue may be on older programmes where their running time was longer than the newer ones (typically 50 mins as opposed to 43 for newer ones), but this could be remedied with AR.

    

    AFAIK, if there were no AR signals, the programmes would never start recording.

    Recently, though, I've had a couple of BBC 4 programmes start very precipitately; Dan Cruikshank's programme about the Gothic Gilbert Scotts on BBC Four HD on Tuesday 21:00 was a case in point.

    It didn't lose much, just a few seconds I find by looking back to the On Demand version on the BBC iPlayer, but it definitely lost the 'BBC Arts' opening ident, so we weren't quite sure how late we'd been pitched into it.

    So I wonder if some of this is not bad AR, but that the new update has made the box slow to respond to the AR signals?
    I have a low opinion of people who press the Disagree button instead of engaging in reasoned debate. 
    I have an even lower opinion of YouView’s continued policy of letting such people hide behind the cloak of anonymity.
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 227 ✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 6:42PM
    Stevef said:

    Recorded some random programmes on CBS Action today - results below.

    Hawaii 5-0 due 4:05 - 4:55
    previous show still running at 4:05 and ends 56seconds later.
    Hawaii starts @ 1:28 into recording time.
    Ending is missing (from recording later in day same show around 3 mins early I think.

    Hawaii 5-0 due 10:00 - 11:00
    End credits of previous programme still playing - ends12 secs in.
    H5-0 starts 45 secs in
    Ending cuts off (over 1 min missing - see below)

    Star Trek next Gen due 11:00 - 12:00
    Hawaii ends 1:09 into recording
    STNG begins 1:37 in. Ending OK but...
    Star Trek due to start at 12:00 begins 48 secs early so recording it from 12:00 - 1:00 you would miss the opening segment (and the programme ended before the end credits started but you did get the last scene).

    I have tried Hawaii on and off over the last few weeks and the results are always similar - I have yet to get the end of any recording of this programme I have set at either the early morning recording or the 10am start.

    If you wish some more info then I am happy to provide by doing a similar exercise another day, but in the reply from CBS themselves they clearly keep records and are not adhering to the times stated by their own admissions, nor do they appear to send AR signals.

    It would seem that the issue may be on older programmes where their running time was longer than the newer ones (typically 50 mins as opposed to 43 for newer ones), but this could be remedied with AR.

    

    It's been happening ever since CBS Action have been on freeview and I have had 3 updates since then. I will do a check to see if it occurs on the Humax box too.
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 227 ✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 6:42PM
    Stevef said:

    Recorded some random programmes on CBS Action today - results below.

    Hawaii 5-0 due 4:05 - 4:55
    previous show still running at 4:05 and ends 56seconds later.
    Hawaii starts @ 1:28 into recording time.
    Ending is missing (from recording later in day same show around 3 mins early I think.

    Hawaii 5-0 due 10:00 - 11:00
    End credits of previous programme still playing - ends12 secs in.
    H5-0 starts 45 secs in
    Ending cuts off (over 1 min missing - see below)

    Star Trek next Gen due 11:00 - 12:00
    Hawaii ends 1:09 into recording
    STNG begins 1:37 in. Ending OK but...
    Star Trek due to start at 12:00 begins 48 secs early so recording it from 12:00 - 1:00 you would miss the opening segment (and the programme ended before the end credits started but you did get the last scene).

    I have tried Hawaii on and off over the last few weeks and the results are always similar - I have yet to get the end of any recording of this programme I have set at either the early morning recording or the 10am start.

    If you wish some more info then I am happy to provide by doing a similar exercise another day, but in the reply from CBS themselves they clearly keep records and are not adhering to the times stated by their own admissions, nor do they appear to send AR signals.

    It would seem that the issue may be on older programmes where their running time was longer than the newer ones (typically 50 mins as opposed to 43 for newer ones), but this could be remedied with AR.

    

    Recorded the next gen @6pm on both humax and talktalk boxes and the programmes started and ended at exactly the same time.
  • KateThatchamKateThatcham Member Posts: 53
    edited 9 November 2014, 6:53PM
    Stevef said:

    Recorded some random programmes on CBS Action today - results below.

    Hawaii 5-0 due 4:05 - 4:55
    previous show still running at 4:05 and ends 56seconds later.
    Hawaii starts @ 1:28 into recording time.
    Ending is missing (from recording later in day same show around 3 mins early I think.

    Hawaii 5-0 due 10:00 - 11:00
    End credits of previous programme still playing - ends12 secs in.
    H5-0 starts 45 secs in
    Ending cuts off (over 1 min missing - see below)

    Star Trek next Gen due 11:00 - 12:00
    Hawaii ends 1:09 into recording
    STNG begins 1:37 in. Ending OK but...
    Star Trek due to start at 12:00 begins 48 secs early so recording it from 12:00 - 1:00 you would miss the opening segment (and the programme ended before the end credits started but you did get the last scene).

    I have tried Hawaii on and off over the last few weeks and the results are always similar - I have yet to get the end of any recording of this programme I have set at either the early morning recording or the 10am start.

    If you wish some more info then I am happy to provide by doing a similar exercise another day, but in the reply from CBS themselves they clearly keep records and are not adhering to the times stated by their own admissions, nor do they appear to send AR signals.

    It would seem that the issue may be on older programmes where their running time was longer than the newer ones (typically 50 mins as opposed to 43 for newer ones), but this could be remedied with AR.

    

    CBS Action - I recorded Next Gen on Sun 9 Nov 12 - 1 am then 1 am to 2 am,  The first episode ended late so the start of the second episode was recorded at the end of the first episode.
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 227 ✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:36AM
    Nothing seems to be happening here. CBS Action are still not adhering to timings and yesterdays Streets of San Francisco which started at 9am missed the ending at 10am. Unfortunately H5-0 failed to record so have no timings this time round, but the issue persists.
  • SanjSanj Member Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 7:56PM
    Stevef said:

    Nothing seems to be happening here. CBS Action are still not adhering to timings and yesterdays Streets of San Francisco which started at 9am missed the ending at 10am. Unfortunately H5-0 failed to record so have no timings this time round, but the issue persists.

    Hi Steve - Thanks for letting us now, we'll chase this up for you. 
  • Richard Shugs HughesRichard Shugs Hughes Member Posts: 1
    edited 31 January 2015, 3:54PM
    Same issue happening for me too on CBS Action. With Star Trek 99% of the time I miss the end & about 98% of the time I miss the beginning. Also, recently I've had 3 occasions where the completely wrong programme was recorded, even though it's still says on my machine that the recording is Star Trek?
    I'm using BT vision but do not get this issue with any other channel.
    I notice the last post re this issue was 2months ago & it's still not been addressed!
    Sort it out please CBS or just stop broadcasting - no programmes at all would be preferable to missing the the end of every programme & not knowing what the episode was all about!
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 227 ✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 6:42PM
    I am still not getting the end of Hawaii 5-0 when recording it. It has been "better" i.e. not so much missing at the end since the Streets of SF has finished in the time slot preceding it.

    For CBS to continue to say they are broadcasting withing the +/- 3minutes that is allowed is a nonsense when this is not the issue. They need to broadcast an accurate recording signal linked to the programmes they broadcast.

    This is a recurring issue on the TalkTalk forums and I feel it is unfair that TT are being blamed fro what is not their problem but the broadcasters.

    Can YouView please let us know what is happening to their representations to CBS and who it needs to be escalated to for something to get done about this.

    Many thanks
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    Not much progress in the last two years CBS still clips recordings. I even had emails of CBS blaming youview for not having padding on the boxes and now emails go ignored
  • Yasha NokeYasha Noke Member Posts: 315
    edited 25 March 2017, 5:09PM
    There is an alternative to the broadcaster supplying AR, or broadcasting within the billed times, or using padding on the recorder.
    The 7 day guide contains rounded times that are easily recognised by the guide's users. Broadcasters, or their outsourced agents, always supply default times that can be used for the AR mechanism (i.e. data for the EIT p/f).  This applies to all channels regardless of whether or not the broadcaster will be overriding these default times through an AR mechanism.

    Where the broadcaster does not supply AR they could attempt to supply better defaults (via the EOT p/f) for what is predicted will happen on the day, especially for slots that regularly over or under run. Depending on how a channel's schedules are planned it will be harder for some channels to do this than others.

    The d-book is under copyright but D-book 7 is accessible on wikileaks locatable using the search google search engine.  It does not appear on other search engines that I've tried.  If you do view it then see the first two paragraphs of  section 8.10.1.  These paragraphs make clear the difference between the billed and the underlying scheduled times and what happens if the two are being treated as the same for non AR channels.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    I have completely abandoned using CBS channels I got sick of clipped recordings. I by chance decides to retest the channels today 5 weeks after I sent them my first email still the same there obviously not interested in keeping viewers happy. Absolutely rubbish channels.
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