Won't record BBC1HD

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  • trophytr5trophytr5 Member Posts: 163 ✭✭
    edited 4 June 2015, 6:28PM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    Ran a test to watch/record from BBC News HD and then record from BBC2HD and it passed. Can't remember if I have done that one before and can't find a reference to it in the conversations

    I am cross with myself for not planning these tests properly so that I can easily say what has been run, when and what passed and what failed.  I should know better!!

    I'll build a test plan so I can record, in one place, all the tests and the results.

    I have had a reply from HumaX. asking if my box is registered for a second year of warranty. Perhaps they suspect a hardware failure

    I checked the receipt (I keep that stuff) and turns out that when I bought it from John Lewis, it came with a 2 year warranty on June 28th, 2013!!!
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 December 2016, 12:01PM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    I tried the same test I did before - record both now and next on BBC4HD and whatever new programme starts on BBC1HD in that duration. Leaving the youview on BBC4HD and the BBC1HD programme fails.

    I wonder if anyone else could try this test? 
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Member Posts: 163 ✭✭
    edited 5 June 2015, 2:44PM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    Good to know that it is not just me that still has the problem!!  Did a couple more tests last evening and the problem is definitely still there of BBC1HD.

    I wonder what woud happen if you had "now" and "next" set to record on MUX7 and BBC1HD set to record at the SAME time as "next"? It might be down to pure chance as to whether the BBC1HD got recorded when the tuner was released at the end of "now"
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Member Posts: 163 ✭✭
    edited 5 June 2015, 6:44PM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    Come Dine with Me as "Now" and "Next" on Ch4HD and The Box on BBC1HD all recorded.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,282 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 December 2016, 12:05AM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    Al, Could this be an input crids problem? In that the box thinks your trying to record 3 programmes at the same time, when in fact your only trying to record 2 simultaneously? 
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 December 2016, 12:01PM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    Both my tests had "next" start at the same time as BBC1HD. Whenever I look that's all I seem to see.

    C4HD and BBC1HD are on the same mux so that's normal. Or do you mean C4HD+1?
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,282 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 December 2016, 12:05AM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    No I meant what I said. It was in reference to the way the box processes crids. Though I fear you know far more about this than I do. 
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 December 2016, 12:01PM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    @Visionman
    Do you mean now+next+bbc1hd = 3 or next+currentchannel+bbc1hd = 3?

    If it's the first, I think lack of padding seems to avoid that and it doesn't seem to happen to any combination other than com7/bbc1hd.

    If it's the second, why isn't it releasing (for want of a better term) currentchannel?

    Edit: Cross posting mayhem!
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,282 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 December 2016, 12:05AM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    Crids are meant to under and overrun slightly. Could that be the problem? In that they over-lapped?
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 December 2016, 12:01PM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    Are you sure? Surely this would happen much more often then.
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Member Posts: 163 ✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 1:36PM
    "C4HD and BBC1HD are on the same mux so that's normal. Or do you mean C4HD+1?"

    Oops, my bad.  I used CH4HD on MUX3 and BBC1HD on MUX3.  Not surprising it worked OK.

    I am going away tomorrow for 2 weeks, so I won't be able to test anything.  I have set both my boxes to record everyting while I am away so it will be interesting to review what's happened, although I've avoided BBC1HD for safety.

    I will, however, be keeping an eye on this convestion on my phone
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,282 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 December 2016, 12:05AM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    No al, I'm not sure at all...

    And your question would depend on how many people record programmes in this fashion. This is a difficult one to be sure.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Member Posts: 163 ✭✭
    edited 5 June 2015, 9:00PM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    I am unclear what you mean by "in this fashion".

    I wouldn't use the Now and Next terms here as they are relative to the time now, whereas the Guide/TV Schedule is fixed in time and is the same for everyone. 

    To recap on what seems to be happening

    1. I search the guide for a BBC1HD programme (X) that does not start on the hour (more chance of finding a "pair" that does.)
    2. I search for a programme on MUX7 for a programme (Y) that starts BEFORE (not at the same time as) the BBC1HD programme
    3.1. Set the box to record programme Y.
    3.2. Set the box to record programme X on BBC1HD
    4. Set the box to watch programme Y
    5. The box starts to record programme Y using Tuner A (call the tuners A and B just for clarity)
    6. Tuner B is still watching programme Y and you can prove this by changing channels to another MUX, but don't do this around the start time of programme Y and make sure that Tuner B is returned to watch programme Y
    7. At the start time of programme X, nothing happens. Tuner B is stil watching programme and you can change channels without affecting anything AS LONG AS YOU STAY ON MUX7.
    8.  If programme Y ends BEFORE the end time of programme X, programme X will start recording and continue until the end of programme X.  It is possible that the box will then re-schedule itself to record programme X for a later time, but this is not proven
    9. If programme Y ends AFTER the end of programme X, then eventually either
    9.1 Programme X appears in Recording as Failed or
    9.2 Programme X is re-scheduled for a later time, but again, this is not proven

    This is what I see as a user.  I know nothing of the reasons behind this behaviour, I leave that to the more technical minded with an understanding of the details.

    Please let me know if there are any tests you would like to see run, in order to shed more light of why.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,456 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:39AM
    trophytr5 said:

    Tested QVC Beauty (ch 112, MUX 8) against BBC1HD (ch101, MUX3) - Passed.

    So it looks like it is just MUX 7 that causes the problem.

    But I have just got back from the pub!!!

    Visionman, if I remember some earlier technical info from Piers or Phil, there aren't start/stop flags between programmes, but just one changeover event.

    So no possibility of underrun/overrun, except insofar as there are adverts, or trails on the BBC, and the AR event is triggered in the middle of these. So AR actually depends on the programmes being a little shorter than advertised and AR triggering in the resulting gaps, whatever may be filling them.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • SanjSanj Member Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    Hi trophytr5,

    Thank you for all the time you've invested into testing this issue. The information you've provided has been really valuable. So I'm glad to tell you that we have identified an issue with Humax YouView boxes set up in a multi-region area, whereby in some circumstances, if you are tuned to one MUX, you may have issues with recording on another.
     
    We are currently working on a fix with Humax which will be made available in a future software update.
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Member Posts: 163 ✭✭
    edited 15 June 2015, 11:43PM
    Sanj said:

    Hi trophytr5,

    Thank you for all the time you've invested into testing this issue. The information you've provided has been really valuable. So I'm glad to tell you that we have identified an issue with Humax YouView boxes set up in a multi-region area, whereby in some circumstances, if you are tuned to one MUX, you may have issues with recording on another.
     
    We are currently working on a fix with Humax which will be made available in a future software update.

    This explains why Humax are replacing my YouView box with only 13 days left on the John Lewis 2 year warranty!!
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,456 ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    Sterling work, trophytr5!

    I know you got an itch, and had to scratch it, but thanks to you, YouView and Humax are now going to swat the mozzie that bit you, so it can never bite anyone else!
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,282 ✭✭✭
    edited 26 February 2017, 2:39PM
    Truly outstanding.
    .
    image 
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • WishpickerWishpicker Member Posts: 2
    edited 19 June 2015, 10:46PM
    Sanj said:

    Hi trophytr5,

    Thank you for all the time you've invested into testing this issue. The information you've provided has been really valuable. So I'm glad to tell you that we have identified an issue with Humax YouView boxes set up in a multi-region area, whereby in some circumstances, if you are tuned to one MUX, you may have issues with recording on another.
     
    We are currently working on a fix with Humax which will be made available in a future software update.

    Dear Sanj, I also have the same problems as trophytr5, and I also live in the Bedford area, well Bedford itself. Please can you help me? I have tried checking for a new software update, but there isn't one, so when will my box be able to get the new software update to resolve these issues, or will Humax send me a new box to replace my current one please? My email is [email protected]  thank you.
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Member Posts: 163 ✭✭
    edited 19 June 2015, 11:26PM
    Sanj said:

    Hi trophytr5,

    Thank you for all the time you've invested into testing this issue. The information you've provided has been really valuable. So I'm glad to tell you that we have identified an issue with Humax YouView boxes set up in a multi-region area, whereby in some circumstances, if you are tuned to one MUX, you may have issues with recording on another.
     
    We are currently working on a fix with Humax which will be made available in a future software update.

    Rosie, I don't know how old yourYouView box is and whether it is in or out of warranty, but Humax have offered me a replacement AND said that the problem will be fixed by an OTA update " at some time inter future".

    As I have been away for 2 weeks, I have a lot of recordings which I don't want to lose by exchanging the box for one to which the update has not yet been applied.

    Humax don't seem to be able to give me a definitive answer on this, not surprising as each response I get from them comes from someone different.

    When I get back I shall be escalating the problem to Humax management .
  • WishpickerWishpicker Member Posts: 2
    edited 19 June 2015, 11:48PM
    Sanj said:

    Hi trophytr5,

    Thank you for all the time you've invested into testing this issue. The information you've provided has been really valuable. So I'm glad to tell you that we have identified an issue with Humax YouView boxes set up in a multi-region area, whereby in some circumstances, if you are tuned to one MUX, you may have issues with recording on another.
     
    We are currently working on a fix with Humax which will be made available in a future software update.

    Hi trophytr5, thank you for writing back to me. My box is a Humax YouView DTR-T2120/500G/Plusnet box, it is less than 2 weeks old, and it's driving me up the wall! I also live in Bedford, I'm not technical like you obviously are, but I am having the same issues as you, because my box isn't recording scheduled programs on BBC1 HD unless I actually have the box set to that channel, and I also usually have it tuned to BBC News HD like you. I have just emailed Humax support to ask them to help, as Plusnet don't have a clue! I honestly wish I had NEVER signed up for it with Plusnet!
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,456 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:40AM
    Sanj said:

    Hi trophytr5,

    Thank you for all the time you've invested into testing this issue. The information you've provided has been really valuable. So I'm glad to tell you that we have identified an issue with Humax YouView boxes set up in a multi-region area, whereby in some circumstances, if you are tuned to one MUX, you may have issues with recording on another.
     
    We are currently working on a fix with Humax which will be made available in a future software update.

    Hi Rosie

    YouView don't like us publishing email addresses. They claim its for your own safety, but personally I think they fear we might get together and gang up on them :-)

    But if it is a safety thing, I am sure some kind moderator will come along and remove it. Since you can't go back and edit your comment once somebody has added another one :-(

    I don't know why Humax have offered trophytr5 another YouView box. Heaven knows he deserves one, but unless there is something else wrong with it, or Humax are sneaking out a firmware fix in the new one, I don't know what it will do different from the old one, until we get the official YouView fix for the issue that trophytr5 so neatly qualified for them.

    And YouView/Humax don't remotely work that fast :-(

    So until the fix comes out, the only workaround is not to have the box tuned to the Mux that gives the problem, when trying to record BBC 1 HD.

    Perhaps Sanj could kindly publish any details he has or can obtain on what to do, and/or what to avoid, in the meantime?

    But it would seem that any Humax box - BT, Retail, or PlusNet - is going to have this issue at the moment, in areas with competing transmitters like yours, so don't blame PlusNet too much.

    Though we might well ask why is it seemingly always Humax, never Huawei, boxes that harbour these obscure bugs?

    We've known for ages that YouView (maybe just Humax YouView?) boxes behave wrongly in competing transmitter areas, though YouView have always pooh-poohed this and declined to investigate it, until trophytr5 did what someone from YouView should have done two years ago.

    But I don't think the BBC 1 HD issue is by any means the whole of the competing transmitters problem, so I do hope that when YouView and Humax sit down to fix this, they will look back over all the past reports of issues in such areas, and see if they can't find a few related competing transmitter issues, such as the way YouView boxes always seem to fasten on the 'wrong' transmitter, in whole or in part, in these areas, and maybe find and fix the bugs in these areas also.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 December 2016, 12:01PM
    Sanj said:

    Hi trophytr5,

    Thank you for all the time you've invested into testing this issue. The information you've provided has been really valuable. So I'm glad to tell you that we have identified an issue with Humax YouView boxes set up in a multi-region area, whereby in some circumstances, if you are tuned to one MUX, you may have issues with recording on another.
     
    We are currently working on a fix with Humax which will be made available in a future software update.

    I'm not convinced that this particular issue is a "competing transmitter" problem as no one receiving a single transmitter has mentioned that they have tried this test.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,456 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:40AM
    Sanj said:

    Hi trophytr5,

    Thank you for all the time you've invested into testing this issue. The information you've provided has been really valuable. So I'm glad to tell you that we have identified an issue with Humax YouView boxes set up in a multi-region area, whereby in some circumstances, if you are tuned to one MUX, you may have issues with recording on another.
     
    We are currently working on a fix with Humax which will be made available in a future software update.

    I suspect many of us try it every day without thinking about it, in a single-region area, and I don't recall anyone ever saying that recording BBC 1 HD would repeatably fail if they had left the box tuned to another, specific, channel.

    Perhaps if Sanj gives more details on how to avoid this problem, which will also act as more details on how to provoke it, we could try this.

    But he did say, above, specifically that they had found a multi-region issue.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 December 2016, 12:01PM
    Sanj said:

    Hi trophytr5,

    Thank you for all the time you've invested into testing this issue. The information you've provided has been really valuable. So I'm glad to tell you that we have identified an issue with Humax YouView boxes set up in a multi-region area, whereby in some circumstances, if you are tuned to one MUX, you may have issues with recording on another.
     
    We are currently working on a fix with Humax which will be made available in a future software update.

    My tests above are simple and repeatable and, until this thread, I had never knowingly come across this issue. (Tuning to AND recording from com7 while setting a timer on BBC1HD is quite a specific condition)
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Member Posts: 163 ✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 1:36PM
    I'm back from my holiday. The YouView box seems to have behaved itself, although I didn't ask it to do anything difficult, i.e. no recording in HD.  It seems to have coped with requests from the Canaries to record programmes using the YouView App.

    However, my "backup" Humax 9200 has suffered a nervous breakdown and locked up at the beginning of last week (recorded nothing after 15th and continuing not to do so). It would do this from time to time, apparently getting confused with skipping backwards and forwards and just going off and sulking, not responding to the remote or the front panel controls, and only coming back to life after being powered off and back on. Useful behaviour when recording something and watching another recording - NOT!!

    The effect of this is that I don't want Humax to exchange YouView box, until I have watched the programmes recorded after the 15th.  Unless the 9200 starts behaving itself again, this may take some time, but I have submitted the warranty paperwork to Humax so that an exchange can be carried out at a mutually convenient time, if it is stil necessary
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Member Posts: 163 ✭✭
    edited 5 March 2017, 2:28PM
    The replacement box was delivered today,

    The good news is that my old T1000 has been replaced with a T1010.

    The bad news is that the problem is still there.

    The software is up to date (14.2.0/1.7.4/492/-) and it is still picking up a multi-region signal (it's lost Yorkshire though).

    Work around is to not use MUX 7, which (as far I am concerned) is BBC News HD, BBC4 HD and Channel 4 +1 HD. This should not be a problem now I know what is happening
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 December 2016, 12:01PM
    trophytr5 said:

    The replacement box was delivered today,

    The good news is that my old T1000 has been replaced with a T1010.

    The bad news is that the problem is still there.

    The software is up to date (14.2.0/1.7.4/492/-) and it is still picking up a multi-region signal (it's lost Yorkshire though).

    Work around is to not use MUX 7, which (as far I am concerned) is BBC News HD, BBC4 HD and Channel 4 +1 HD. This should not be a problem now I know what is happening

    I think recording them is ok, just never watch them live.
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Member Posts: 163 ✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 1:36PM
    The replacement box had to be replaced!!

    The VOL- button was working only intermittently (causing a problem when going into maintenance mode) and also had the dreaded YVM104.

    On the up side, Humax replaced it with no fuss in only a few days.

    Apparently the fix for the MUX1/MUX7 problem is due in FR14, whenever that comes out
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Member Posts: 163 ✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:36AM
    Update - I think they (YouView/Humax) have fixed the bug.

    I tried recording a) Victoria Derbyshire (BBC News HD - MUX 7) and b) Homes under the Hammer (BBC1 HD - MUX 1) yesterday, leaving the box tuned to BBC News HD and both programmes recorded succesfully
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