Youview signal too sharp / digital looking compared to freeview signal inbuilt in TV

Matthew Phillips

HI there - I have just bought a samsung 32" TV and at the same timehave upgraded my BY account to incorporate BT TV - my main issue is that I find the picture from the TV Freeview a lot more easy going than the picture from the Youview box. I am not a fan of the overly processed digital look so I always have the sharpness set very low from between 0 to 5 points to give a smoother more natural looking picture however even with sharpness set to 0 on my TV the signal from the Youview box is too sharp for my liking and there are slight halos apparant around sharp edges. I am wondering if there is any filters being applied by the YouView box to 'enhance' the image such as boosting sharpness and possible noise reduction as well as the image also has an slightly processed look to my eyes. I would like to see some options on the YouView box to alter sharpness settings and any other digital tweaking that may be going on. For me I will be watching the main freeview channels through the TV and switching to YouView for the internet channels / catch up & Netflix as the picture is more pleasing to my eyes.

Stephen

Is this on HD or SD channels, or both?
Have you also checked that the YouView box is outputting in a resolution that your TV is happiest with?

Matthew Phillips

Well it is most prominent on the HD channels due to the increased resolution but to my mind the SD picture also has a processed look when compared to the freeview signal on the TV. I've tried changing the output from the box to 720p and 1080i but this does not improve the problem. I am pretty convinced that the YouView box is applying some filtration to the image that can not be disabled by the user in the settings. The other explanation is that it could be due to how the TV handles HDMI signals however I don't think this is the case as my Blu Ray does not exhibit the same issues.

redchiz

My Samsung TV has independent settings for every input, so have you checked that the ones for whichever HDMI input you have your YouView box connected to match/resemble the ones for the internal tuner?

Matthew Phillips

yeah - I have the settings the same redchiz - I'm going to try component cable later on and see how that turns out

Roy

Knock the MotionFlow settings on the Samsung off. It will give the effect you describe on a well-presented image - paradoxically, the image from the YouView box is 'too good' to need the tweaks that the Sammy gives by default.

Matthew Phillips

All processing on the TV is turned off Roy

Matthew Phillips

Roy do you know if the image being 'too good' from the YouView is due to artificial boosting or filtering?

al

The output from the yv box does just have a slightly less pleasing look than through my TV's tuner. It's something you just have to put up with. I'm guessing you weren't brought up using a VCR.

Matthew Phillips

Hi Al. Of course I remember VCRs however our TV reception was so bad we would get rolling and all kinds of interference through the aerial - so a good VCR image was actually better than our normal signal. It's not that the signal is bad through the YV box - I'm getting used to it as you say - been watching iplayer today and some other catch up services today and have been impressed with the quality. Anyhoo I have an UHF cable hooked up to both the TV and the YV box now so I have the choice of both. I do think a few more picture options would be a good idea on the YV still.

Matthew Phillips

I'm finding that the issue is more prominent on the freeview on the YV than the internet based functions. I've just checked out some shows that I watched on catch up via the freeview channels and immediately noticed the edge enhanced kind of effect.

redchiz

Personally I like the fact that the YouView box just sends through a raw signal. Reminiscing as we are about the days of VCRs, what about those appalling stereo systems with multiple graphic equaliser settings which did nothing more than distort the sound which recording studios had so carefully engineered? Audiophiles turned to amplifiers where less was more, a big volume knob and little else. I wish today's equipment was as simple.

Returning to the matter in hand, the only visual setting which is adjustable on the YouView box afaik is the HDMI Display Setting, I trust you have this at 1080p?

Roy

Matthew Phillips said:

Roy do you know if the image being 'too good' from the YouView is due to artificial boosting or filtering?

It isn't. It's an extremely accurate image that takes full advantage of HD over HDMI, but it's essentially neutral wrt picture enhancement.

Matthew Phillips

redchiz said:

Personally I like the fact that the YouView box just sends through a raw signal. Reminiscing as we are about the days of VCRs, what about those appalling stereo systems with multiple graphic equaliser settings which did nothing more than distort the sound which recording studios had so carefully engineered? Audiophiles turned to amplifiers where less was more, a big volume knob and little else. I wish today's equipment was as simple.

Returning to the matter in hand, the only visual setting which is adjustable on the YouView box afaik is the HDMI Display Setting, I trust you have this at 1080p?

Yes set to 108op - if the signal is indeed raw then that is that - I was convinced that the YV box was applying its own enhancements which were over processing the image

Matthew Phillips

Matthew Phillips said:

Roy do you know if the image being 'too good' from the YouView is due to artificial boosting or filtering?

Ok interesting, if this is the case then - I guess then either I don't personally like the starkness of the raw image or the TV is not dealing with the image 100% perfectly - I think my issues could be placated a little by including a sharpness control on the YV box - my Blu Ray has one which has been set to low it would be nice if the YV had this option also.

Matthew Phillips

I have set the sharpness level to 50 on all inputs (YV, Blu Ray & TV itself)  and I am definitely getting significant haloing on the YV box - please see the following photos i've taken of the same program being broadcast first through the freeview tv then through yv and note the halo effect

This first image is from the inbuilt freeview and shows a sharp but solid image


This second image is from the youview box and shows the haloing / edge enhancement effect


This third image is from netflix on the yv box and clearly shows significant haloing around the character hercules



you may need to zoom in to see clearly -  I may try to make a video to illustrate also

Matthew Phillips

Matthew Phillips said:

Roy do you know if the image being 'too good' from the YouView is due to artificial boosting or filtering?

Roy please check out the images I've posted and let me know your opinion

Matthew Phillips

At long last I worked out a solution - I did a factory reset on the youview box and it has got rid of the haloing - fingers crossed it stays that way

Roy

Matthew Phillips said:

At long last I worked out a solution - I did a factory reset on the youview box and it has got rid of the haloing - fingers crossed it stays that way

Cheers, Matthew

I perhaps should have thought to suggest the rather less drastic soft reset to you, but I'm glad you got it sorted.

I certainly saw the halos in the example images you posted, and I have seen nothing like that from my boxes, so I am glad you are now experiencing YouView as it should be :-)

It seems to me that all new YouView boxes would benefit from a soft reset after the first few days (or even sooner) to eliminate any weird issues that they might have first started up with.

stormy

Matthew Phillips said:

At long last I worked out a solution - I did a factory reset on the youview box and it has got rid of the haloing - fingers crossed it stays that way

I must be blind or my eyes need a soft reset as I see no "example images" in this thread?

Roy

Matthew Phillips said:

At long last I worked out a solution - I did a factory reset on the youview box and it has got rid of the haloing - fingers crossed it stays that way

I think Matthew must have taken them down, and this beknighted Not Satisfactory software still doesn't leave the placeholder and have the Edit trail that even its first, baffling, incarnation used to have :-(

Matthew Phillips

Matthew Phillips said:

At long last I worked out a solution - I did a factory reset on the youview box and it has got rid of the haloing - fingers crossed it stays that way

Hi all - yes I took them down because I thought I had sorted the problem however its back again I really am starting to doubt my sanity now because one minute it seems to be better then I am noticing it again.

Matthew Phillips

Matthew Phillips said:

At long last I worked out a solution - I did a factory reset on the youview box and it has got rid of the haloing - fingers crossed it stays that way

here they are again - please note they are all with sharpness at 50 which is not 'off' so to speak - but I am still seeing haloing at sharpness 0

this is freeview signal on tv


youview freeview signal - note the edge enhanced look


netflix with haloing

redchiz

Matthew Phillips said:

At long last I worked out a solution - I did a factory reset on the youview box and it has got rid of the haloing - fingers crossed it stays that way

I don't doubt you see what you say you do, but those pics have so many image artefacts present from the digital photos that I find it impossible to judge tbh.

Matthew Phillips

Matthew Phillips said:

At long last I worked out a solution - I did a factory reset on the youview box and it has got rid of the haloing - fingers crossed it stays that way

yeah but i'm really just interested in the edges - you can clearly see the bright edging around Hercules - or slightly more subtly if you zoom in on the second photo - look under the arms you will clearly see haloing.

Matthew Phillips

I have finally worked out what is causing this problem - it is the NETFLIX app and only the NETFLIX app - everytime I watch something on NETLFIX and then exit it the video signal on the youview box becomes artificially sharpened and displays haloing. I have tried this on two seperate youview boxes on my TV and in both cases I get the same results. No other app or catch up player gives me this effect. The only way to get rid of the excessive sharpness once NETFLIX has been watched is to reboot the box. I will be trying this on a neighbours TV tomorrow to see if it is different on another brand of TV - mine is a samsung.

Matthew Phillips

here's a vid to illustrate - i'm in conversation with youview about this via email and this is to show them what i mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKD_4ZdJIog&feature=youtu.be

Philip Trott

Hi Matthew,

Thanks for raising this issue and attaching the video, I have raised this with our test team to see if this is something we can recreate, so we will keep you informed if we find out more. This is definitely an unusual one though!

Phil

Matthew Phillips

Thanks Phil - Looking forward to seeing what the test team find out.

Visionman

Matthew Phillips said:

Thanks Phil - Looking forward to seeing what the test team find out.

Matthew, send Phil your email address and telephone number, in case one of the test team want to speak to you directly. They can be proactive like that.
[email protected]

Philip Trott

Matthew Phillips said:

Thanks Phil - Looking forward to seeing what the test team find out.

Hi Matthew,

Out of interest did you get an opportunity to try your box on a neighbors TV? It would be interesting to know if it only appears on the Samsung TV mentioned.