Humax 26.40.0 and multiple transmitter recording

Yasha NokeYasha Noke Posts: 314Member
edited 12 March 2017, 8:39PM in Archived Posts
Over the past few weeks I have been planning, setting and noting a significant number of recordings on a DTR-T2100, but not to watch any of the recordings.  It was an attempt to identify the behavior when multiple transmitters are tuned and what happens with a scheduled recording if at the start of that recording you are watching a channel from a different transmitter.  The 2 transmitters used where one with a full set including COM7, COM8 and a local mux, and the other transmitter was one with just the 6 commonest multiplexes.

Recordings work for BBC1 SD while watching another region’s transmitter.
Recordings do not work for any other channel on the BBC1 SD multiplex while watching another region’s transmitter.

Recordings work for ITV1 SD while watching another region’s transmitter.
Recordings do not work for any other channel on the ITV1 SD multiplex while watching another region’s transmitter.

Recordings do not work for the local multiplex (i.e. the mux that channel 8 is transmitted on, or in Northern Ireland channel 7) while watching another region’s transmitter. This has always been the situation.

Recordings work, for me, for all ARQ A, ARQ B and SDN channels regardless of what is being watched. This has always been the situation.  And why do I say “for me”?  They might not work for someone who has mixed channels from a freeview light transmitter and a full transmitter and I have no way of testing what happens with a light relay (whic most of them are).  

Recordings work for the COM7 and COM8 channels if watching a different region’s transmitter even if that different region’s transmitter does not itself carry COM7 or COM8.
Recordings do not work for the older HD channels if watching COM7 or COM8 from a different region’s transmitter.
For example watch 101 BBC One HD and a recording for 107 BBC News HD works, but if the situation is reversed then watching 107 BBC News HD and a recording for 101 BBC One HD will fail.
But again I don’t know what would happen if one of the transmitter was freeview light

And before anyone asks I did run a total of 6 formal tests with scheduled recordings for 33 ITV+1 and 103 ITV1 HD. They do not have immunity from failure like BBC1 SD and ITV1 SD.  They behave as described above.

Some of this is different from what I believe it was a year ago.  There are not as many failures.  But what I wanted to know was is that due to some software tweaking or a change to the broadcast meta data.

I have an old Humax HDR-FOX T2 running 2011 software which I use to know intimately with how it handles multiple transmitters and could predict with 100% accuracy failures or ability to record.  I tuned the HDR-FOX T2 so it was also receiving from more than one transmitter.  The result was that it behaves differently to what it use to when tuned to multiple transmitters, and that is without a software change.  It behaves exactly the same as the DTR-T2100.

My conclusion is that any improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is not down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata.

Comments

  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,930Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    And your point is?
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,496Member ✭✭✭
    edited 26 February 2017, 2:39PM
    Thats a very technical post. And also a complicated one. Care to scale it down for the benefit?
  • Yasha NokeYasha Noke Posts: 314Member
    edited 12 March 2017, 8:39PM
    @redchiz, There have been a few coments that a couple of software versions a go the Humax Youview  COM7/COM8 multiple transmitter and recording issue had been resolved. This was to state what the situation actually is for the various combinations of watched/recording channels.

    @visionman,  My last sentence is the summary.  But would I should have probably said was
    " In conclusion the multiple transmitter recording issues is not resolved and any recent improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is bot down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata".

    One thing I did unintentionally miss out was that the 'Consolidated list of bugs and faults' is wrong when it states that item 43 has been fixed.  I action a small test on very new software since near the beginning of last year and every version has bug 43 with Humax Youview. 
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,429Member, Champion mod
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:30PM

    @redchiz, There have been a few coments that a couple of software versions a go the Humax Youview  COM7/COM8 multiple transmitter and recording issue had been resolved. This was to state what the situation actually is for the various combinations of watched/recording channels.

    @visionman,  My last sentence is the summary.  But would I should have probably said was
    " In conclusion the multiple transmitter recording issues is not resolved and any recent improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is bot down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata".

    One thing I did unintentionally miss out was that the 'Consolidated list of bugs and faults' is wrong when it states that item 43 has been fixed.  I action a small test on very new software since near the beginning of last year and every version has bug 43 with Humax Youview. 

    Hi Yasha - I cannot fix the bug but I have updated the consolidated list of bugs and faults to capture this topic and hence indicate issues still remain :)
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:41AM
    redchiz said:

    And your point is?

    Yasha told us three weeks ago that 43 wasn't fixed, after a back-and-forth between me and Keith about whether the 'trophytr5' fixes applied to 22.16 had made it into 22.17, or a later release, or fallen by the wayside, which ended inconclusively, with YouView deaf to our polite requests for clarification.

    He has now demonstrated that whatever happened to the trophytr5 changes, YouView boxes, or at least Humax ones (strictly just Yasha's Humax ones, but I would expect this to apply to all Humax models) still haven't got this area correct.

    And more power to Yasha's elbow, or that of anyone in a position to explore this area who makes such painstaking analyses as Yasha's, instead of merely speculating about it; something that I, living in an area of non-competing transmitters, and you, possessor of a Huawei box that does not suffer these ills, are restricted to.
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • Yasha NokeYasha Noke Posts: 314Member
    edited 21 December 2016, 9:19PM

    @redchiz, There have been a few coments that a couple of software versions a go the Humax Youview  COM7/COM8 multiple transmitter and recording issue had been resolved. This was to state what the situation actually is for the various combinations of watched/recording channels.

    @visionman,  My last sentence is the summary.  But would I should have probably said was
    " In conclusion the multiple transmitter recording issues is not resolved and any recent improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is bot down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata".

    One thing I did unintentionally miss out was that the 'Consolidated list of bugs and faults' is wrong when it states that item 43 has been fixed.  I action a small test on very new software since near the beginning of last year and every version has bug 43 with Humax Youview. 

    Many thanks, Keith.  This took a lot of effort of a few weeks to get back in a position were I could confidently predict whether a recording would fail or not. I sort of forgot why I was originally doing it by the end.
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,429Member, Champion mod
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:30PM

    @redchiz, There have been a few coments that a couple of software versions a go the Humax Youview  COM7/COM8 multiple transmitter and recording issue had been resolved. This was to state what the situation actually is for the various combinations of watched/recording channels.

    @visionman,  My last sentence is the summary.  But would I should have probably said was
    " In conclusion the multiple transmitter recording issues is not resolved and any recent improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is bot down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata".

    One thing I did unintentionally miss out was that the 'Consolidated list of bugs and faults' is wrong when it states that item 43 has been fixed.  I action a small test on very new software since near the beginning of last year and every version has bug 43 with Humax Youview. 

    Let's hope with your clear explanation YouView can recreate this/confirm this themselves, isolate the issue (perhaps together with Humax) and apply a complete fix in the near future :)
  • Yasha NokeYasha Noke Posts: 314Member
    edited 21 December 2016, 9:19PM

    @redchiz, There have been a few coments that a couple of software versions a go the Humax Youview  COM7/COM8 multiple transmitter and recording issue had been resolved. This was to state what the situation actually is for the various combinations of watched/recording channels.

    @visionman,  My last sentence is the summary.  But would I should have probably said was
    " In conclusion the multiple transmitter recording issues is not resolved and any recent improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is bot down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata".

    One thing I did unintentionally miss out was that the 'Consolidated list of bugs and faults' is wrong when it states that item 43 has been fixed.  I action a small test on very new software since near the beginning of last year and every version has bug 43 with Humax Youview. 

    I'm not hopeful for a fix.

    I've run some of the Humax failed scenarios on a DN372T, and despite the change to the Huawei's tuning process sometime over the past year, the Huawei still looks good.  Plus there is a dearth of internet posts concerning the Huawei having what may be similar issues which also points to the Huawei being OK.  Because the Huawei can cope it is possible that the problem is purely within the Humax software and not anything that Youview can control under their own software. 

    Humax has had issues with due to multiple transmitters and recording using Accurate Recording since 'freeview playback' was introduced in 2007.  After nine years of not adapting their initial approach it doesn't surprise me that Humax Youview recorders have the same issues as well.
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,930Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 1:57PM
    redchiz said:

    And your point is?

    I use a Humax, Roy, which has never exhibited such issues, although I have never knowingly sought them out. The Huawei box which TalkTalk kindly supplied me has no recording facility and has never been unpacked . Perhaps my question would have better been phrased: and what has this got to do with YouView, rather than Humax?
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,496Member ✭✭✭
    edited 22 December 2016, 12:06AM

    @redchiz, There have been a few coments that a couple of software versions a go the Humax Youview  COM7/COM8 multiple transmitter and recording issue had been resolved. This was to state what the situation actually is for the various combinations of watched/recording channels.

    @visionman,  My last sentence is the summary.  But would I should have probably said was
    " In conclusion the multiple transmitter recording issues is not resolved and any recent improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is bot down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata".

    One thing I did unintentionally miss out was that the 'Consolidated list of bugs and faults' is wrong when it states that item 43 has been fixed.  I action a small test on very new software since near the beginning of last year and every version has bug 43 with Humax Youview. 

    I've asked this question elsewhere. I'll post the replies here...
  • Yasha NokeYasha Noke Posts: 314Member
    edited 21 December 2016, 9:19PM

    @redchiz, There have been a few coments that a couple of software versions a go the Humax Youview  COM7/COM8 multiple transmitter and recording issue had been resolved. This was to state what the situation actually is for the various combinations of watched/recording channels.

    @visionman,  My last sentence is the summary.  But would I should have probably said was
    " In conclusion the multiple transmitter recording issues is not resolved and any recent improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is bot down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata".

    One thing I did unintentionally miss out was that the 'Consolidated list of bugs and faults' is wrong when it states that item 43 has been fixed.  I action a small test on very new software since near the beginning of last year and every version has bug 43 with Humax Youview. 

    https://www.avforums.com/threads/humax-and-areas-of-competing-transmitters.2053384/

    My primary 2 PVRs are both HDR-FOX T2 using different software.  Before that I used a couple of PVR-9200T with various versions from 1.00.15 and also tried out the similar PVR-9300T.  Also a HDR-2000T for some months.  I can assure you that they all can have recording issues when tuned to multiple transmitters due to a combination of the tuning and the way Humax boxes look out for the Accurate Recording signals.  Some other makes are fine when tuned to multiple transmitters e.g. the budget make Vestel.  
    AS Graham says with Humax freeview units the work round is to manually tune to just 1 transmitter to make it simple for the Humax.  If it only knows about 1 transmitter it can't get confused about which transmitter to watch for the start of programme.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:41AM
    redchiz said:

    And your point is?

    OK, I expect you live in an area that, like mine, does not have competing transmitters.

    As to your question, I am rather at a loss to answer; how can you swallow the camel of BT questions, TalkTalk questions, broadcaster questions, broadband questions, PLA questions, router questions, HDMI cable questions, aerial questions, transmitter questions and so on, and then suddenly strain at the gnat of Humax, who have supplied the overwhelming majority of YouView boxes - including yours, I see - because there is a tiny cohort of boxes made by a different manufacturer that do not suffer these problems?

    One of the few redeeming features of the GetSat Community software is that anyone with any problem related in any way to the whole of the YouView experience can just tip up and ask it, without having to muse over some ten subcategories to see which one it should go in - and which, more often than not, the tyro poster is quite likely to get wrong.

    To say nothing of finding that many problems do not fall neatly into one category or another, anyway.
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,930Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 1:57PM
    redchiz said:

    And your point is?

    The question wasn't aimed at you, it was clarification of the first question I aimed at the OP. What a shame you went to all that trouble.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,496Member ✭✭✭
    edited 22 December 2016, 12:06AM

    @redchiz, There have been a few coments that a couple of software versions a go the Humax Youview  COM7/COM8 multiple transmitter and recording issue had been resolved. This was to state what the situation actually is for the various combinations of watched/recording channels.

    @visionman,  My last sentence is the summary.  But would I should have probably said was
    " In conclusion the multiple transmitter recording issues is not resolved and any recent improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is bot down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata".

    One thing I did unintentionally miss out was that the 'Consolidated list of bugs and faults' is wrong when it states that item 43 has been fixed.  I action a small test on very new software since near the beginning of last year and every version has bug 43 with Humax Youview. 

    I'm not doubting you, Yasha, and like trophytr5, your work and dedication to this problem has been superb. I'm looking for external confirmation for other reasons.
    And nicely found, btw. :)

    I'm going to let the AVF thread run, to see what other Gremlins pop their head up, as this problem isn't unique to any particular set of high end spec eqpt. It appears to be prevalent on them all.

    But, strangely, in an area of such competing transmitters, not for me where YV is concerned. As such, the bug appears to be intermittent rather than prevalent.  
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:41AM

    @redchiz, There have been a few coments that a couple of software versions a go the Humax Youview  COM7/COM8 multiple transmitter and recording issue had been resolved. This was to state what the situation actually is for the various combinations of watched/recording channels.

    @visionman,  My last sentence is the summary.  But would I should have probably said was
    " In conclusion the multiple transmitter recording issues is not resolved and any recent improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is bot down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata".

    One thing I did unintentionally miss out was that the 'Consolidated list of bugs and faults' is wrong when it states that item 43 has been fixed.  I action a small test on very new software since near the beginning of last year and every version has bug 43 with Humax Youview. 

    Wouldn't you say location-specific, rather than intermittent?

    To me, an intermittent fault is one that comes and goes in a certain location, whereas this fault is pretty constant in the places where it happens.

    There can be an intermittent aspect sometimes, when local weather conditions allow unusual propagation, so a normally non-competing transmitter becomes a competing one; but for many people with the problem, it's always there.

    Yasha, have you by any chance ever tried the attenuator trick? The idea is that while this weakens signals from both transmitters, the one you want remains strong enough, while the one you don't want is weakened to the point where the Humax box rejects it.

    A fine balance needed, which is why a variable attenuator is to be preferred for this,
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,496Member ✭✭✭
    edited 22 December 2016, 12:06AM

    @redchiz, There have been a few coments that a couple of software versions a go the Humax Youview  COM7/COM8 multiple transmitter and recording issue had been resolved. This was to state what the situation actually is for the various combinations of watched/recording channels.

    @visionman,  My last sentence is the summary.  But would I should have probably said was
    " In conclusion the multiple transmitter recording issues is not resolved and any recent improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is bot down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata".

    One thing I did unintentionally miss out was that the 'Consolidated list of bugs and faults' is wrong when it states that item 43 has been fixed.  I action a small test on very new software since near the beginning of last year and every version has bug 43 with Humax Youview. 

    Roy>
    Wouldn't you say location-specific, rather than intermittent?

    Absolutely. As none of my YV equipment displays any such behavior. And bizarrely are the only ones that don't.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:41AM
    redchiz said:

    And your point is?

    Both questions were equally egregious :-(
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,930Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 1:57PM
    redchiz said:

    And your point is?

    Good word, quite wrongly used. Now please stop answering on behalf of others, there's a good chap.  :)
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,496Member ✭✭✭
    edited 22 December 2016, 12:06AM
    redchiz said:

    And your point is?

    "redchiz>
    And your point is?"
    A very important one, actually, hey-ho. And you use a Humax? Does that make you a revolutionist? 
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,496Member ✭✭✭
    edited 26 February 2017, 2:39PM
    "Yasha>
    My conclusion is that any improvements to the recording ability of Humax Youview models in the face of multiple transmitters is not down to any software change but due to changes in the broadcast metadata."
    So... As confirmed on the AVF thread, this problem can and does affect all AR boxes, of any make and model. But in my opinion isn't down to metadata, but to box confusion as to which transmitter to latch onto. Or, god forbid, two!
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,930Member ✭✭✭
    edited 28 February 2017, 3:05PM
    So... As confirmed on the AVF thread, this problem can and does affect all AR boxes, of any make and model.
    "All/any?" Not Huawei YouView boxes, or Vestel according to Yasha. So, curiouser and curiouser (cried Alice).
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