Next-gen missing functionality

jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM in Feedback
(Next-gen software)
So it's 5pm and I'm watching the BBC news channel.
SWMBO needs to watch Neighbours at 5.30 and must not miss it :-)
This a repeat so it's available on demand.
How do I set a reminder for it?

Comments

  • zulu17zulu17 Posts: 970Member ✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
    edited 1 February 2017, 6:23PM
    zulu17 said:

    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.

    Thanks zulu17, but what chance is there of "Mrs Smith on the 17th floor of a tower block in Newham" figuring that one out?
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Of course this is just the tip of a medium sized iceberg.
    It centres on what happens when you press the "i" button.
    Apart from the obvious loss of "More Episodes" there are at least eight other functions that were available at various times from this point in the old software.

    Over the last two months there's been virtually no mention of this.
    Am I the only one who's concerned about this?
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,436Member, Champion mod
    edited 1 February 2017, 9:57PM
    jimb said:

    Of course this is just the tip of a medium sized iceberg.
    It centres on what happens when you press the "i" button.
    Apart from the obvious loss of "More Episodes" there are at least eight other functions that were available at various times from this point in the old software.

    Over the last two months there's been virtually no mention of this.
    Am I the only one who's concerned about this?

    The absence of such functionality has been noted so YouView will be aware that some are not happy this has gone/is missing. It is not a feature I use often but have used from time to time. As such it is on my watch list but at the moment I would see the bugs and inefficiencies in MyTV and the lack of channel hiding as a higher priority to restore/fix.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,346Member ✭✭✭
    edited 1 February 2017, 10:05PM
    zulu17 said:

    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.

    She might just find that if you look in the EPG, put the focus on the desired programme, and press OK, a reminder will be set.

    For an imminent programme, as in the scenario described above, this is arguably easier than zulu17's recipe.

    And it is difficult to envisage what simpler method Mrs Smith might employ, either in CurrentGen or NextGen.

    For a less-than-imminent programme, however, especially one where you perhaps do not know quite which day, time, or channel it is on, I commend you zulu17's method as simpler in those circumstances.
    Off travelling for a while... internet patchy to non-existent....
  • zulu17zulu17 Posts: 970Member ✭✭
    edited 1 March 2017, 10:49AM
    Doesn't the search on Next Gen give you the other episodes from all sources efficiently.
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
    edited 1 February 2017, 10:11PM
    zulu17 said:

    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.

    If she did that Neighbours would play on demand.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,346Member ✭✭✭
    edited 3 February 2017, 11:51PM
    jimb said:

    Of course this is just the tip of a medium sized iceberg.
    It centres on what happens when you press the "i" button.
    Apart from the obvious loss of "More Episodes" there are at least eight other functions that were available at various times from this point in the old software.

    Over the last two months there's been virtually no mention of this.
    Am I the only one who's concerned about this?

    Given the much-bruited agility that the NextGen HTML5 solution was supposed to bring over the GKW employed in CurrentGen, I am more than a little alarmed by the lack of progress with NextGen, my impression being that the development team must be completely swamped.

    This does not augur well for the future :-(
    Off travelling for a while... internet patchy to non-existent....
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
    edited 1 February 2017, 10:27PM
    zulu17 said:

    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.

    Have you understood the problem Roy - when an upcoming programme is available on demand in next-gen there is no simple way to set a reminder for it.
    But this is just one example of a bigger problem.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,618Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 February 2017, 1:04AM
    zulu17 said:

    Doesn't the search on Next Gen give you the other episodes from all sources efficiently.

    Yes.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,618Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Keith, Champion>
    ''The absence of such functionality has been noted.''

    At the moment, there are lots of features missing from Next Gen that fall short, but its still in Beta testing phase. And current features which are at the moment missing from Next Gen will be brought back over time (reference TalkTalk announcements on the TT Forum).

    But I've suddenly realised I've been trying to (very badly) defend a change thats still in Beta, and I will do so no longer. Only TalkTalk have chosen to commercially launch with this in the state it is in, but no one else has. And nor will they, either.

    KCOM, Manx Telecom, Sony (probably never), Plusnet, BT & YouView Retail haven't, and nor will they either until later in the year. 
  • scottscott Posts: 2,055Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 February 2017, 7:22AM
    zulu17 said:

    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.

    If it's available on demand why would you need to set a reminder, just watch it whenever you want isn't that the point of on demand ?
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 February 2017, 7:45AM
    zulu17 said:

    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.

    That isn't what we want to do.
    I want to watch the BBC news channel from 5pm onwards, and my other half wants to watch Neighbours at 5.30.
    Being able to quickly and simply set a reminder means she doesn't have to watch the clock to make sure she doesn't miss the start of the programme.
    Surely this is what the YouView reminder system is all about?
    And given that we want to use this functionality for about 250 days every year the loss of this is really quite significant.
    And please don't suggest watching Neighbours on demand at 5.35 or whenever Scott. Our sad little routine is to watch Eggheads at 6pm :-)
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,436Member, Champion mod
    edited 2 February 2017, 7:56AM
    zulu17 said:

    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.

    Arguably for completeness one should be able to set a reminder for any upcoming programme whether it is available via on demand or not. That said for me reminders are a last resort feature, and in practice it is one I never use. If I want to watch an upcoming programme then my sequence of priorities are:
    1. Set it to record and thus guarantee I can watch it whenever I like once it has aired
    2. If there is a triple recording clash that prevents 1 then try to (automatically) resolve the clash with +1 channels and repeats within the week (where the resolution might be achieved by moving a recording of one of the other 2 programmes rather than the one I am now trying to set)
    3. If 1 and 2 are not possible then consider if any of the 3 programmes are available via on-demand and intend to handle it via that route in due course
    4. Only if all of the above fails, consider resorting to watching it live (assuming that is possible given the tuners in use for the 2 recordings that might prevent the relevant channel being watched) in which case some sort of reminder may be helpful (although arguably for me a reminder that comes from the box is unlikely to be robust as I may need to plan ahead to be in or free to watch etc so need something more built into my life calendar)
    Step 4 works in general but not in the specific case that the upcoming programme is already available via on-demand and hence pressing ok accesses the programme rather than setting a reminder. So were I to use step 4 then I would use it very rarely and even more rarely would I hit this issue that it is available via on-demand and hence I cannot access the 'set reminder' feature for it.

    Nevertheless for completeness one should be able to set a reminder in such a case if one wishes to, as is the case for Jim (who wishes to use it very regularly).
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 February 2017, 7:57AM
    Visionman said:

    Keith, Champion>
    ''The absence of such functionality has been noted.''

    At the moment, there are lots of features missing from Next Gen that fall short, but its still in Beta testing phase. And current features which are at the moment missing from Next Gen will be brought back over time (reference TalkTalk announcements on the TT Forum).

    But I've suddenly realised I've been trying to (very badly) defend a change thats still in Beta, and I will do so no longer. Only TalkTalk have chosen to commercially launch with this in the state it is in, but no one else has. And nor will they, either.

    KCOM, Manx Telecom, Sony (probably never), Plusnet, BT & YouView Retail haven't, and nor will they either until later in the year. 

    Could you please give us a summary of the forthcoming features that you have spotted on the TalkTalk forum?
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
    edited 3 February 2017, 11:48PM
    zulu17 said:

    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.

    The central point that I've been trying to address is that there's really quite a lot of functionality that has been lost in this area.
    There must be an awful lot of users who have become used to using these simple features (and have been for several years) who will be really irritated by their loss.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,346Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 February 2017, 11:35AM
    zulu17 said:

    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.

    Hi jimb

    Quite right - I didn't understand :-(

    And please excuse me if I am already forgetting how CurrentGen works.

    So you are saying that in CurrentGen, setting a 17:30 reminder for a Neighbours episode available on demand would behave just as if it wasn't on demand, but wait until 17:30 and then remind you? As you don't set a reminder with OK - which in CurrentGen will also start an available on demand programme immediately - but by some other mechanism?

    Whereas in DuffGen it will start playing immediately?
    Because DuffGen only allows for OK to set reminders, this becomes ambiguous when the programme is available on demand, and 'on Demand' wins?

    In which case, zulu17's method works - I have just tested it with the 12:15 C5 Celebrity Big Brother - and perhaps this is the only thing that will work, as OKing it off the Guide does indeed start it immediately.
    Off travelling for a while... internet patchy to non-existent....
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
    edited 3 February 2017, 11:50PM
    zulu17 said:

    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.

    Yes.
    In CurrentGen setting a reminder "by some other mechanism" means hit "i" step down to "Set Reminder" and click "OK".
    Simples.

    zulu17's method does indeed work but...
    1) It's a lot of keystrokes including typing text without a proper keyboard which I try and avoid.
    2) What chance is there of the average user discovering this method?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,346Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 February 2017, 2:37PM
    zulu17 said:

    Well i believe that one way would be :

    If you do a Search on the programme you should see that the programme gets listed under the On Now & later - select the (future)  program on the channel you want to watch and press ok and it will I believe set a reminder.

    Oh, I completely agree - this is a shortcoming to which immediate attention should be drawn, despite the existence of an ingenious, but cumbersome, workaround.
    Off travelling for a while... internet patchy to non-existent....
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,346Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 February 2017, 4:03PM
    Visionman said:

    Keith, Champion>
    ''The absence of such functionality has been noted.''

    At the moment, there are lots of features missing from Next Gen that fall short, but its still in Beta testing phase. And current features which are at the moment missing from Next Gen will be brought back over time (reference TalkTalk announcements on the TT Forum).

    But I've suddenly realised I've been trying to (very badly) defend a change thats still in Beta, and I will do so no longer. Only TalkTalk have chosen to commercially launch with this in the state it is in, but no one else has. And nor will they, either.

    KCOM, Manx Telecom, Sony (probably never), Plusnet, BT & YouView Retail haven't, and nor will they either until later in the year. 

    Welcome to the club, Visionman. Not that anyone wanted there to be a club, of course :-(
    Off travelling for a while... internet patchy to non-existent....
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    For the sake of completeness (and for the benefit of those whose memories of the FirstGen UI are fading), these are the functions that used to be available when you requested programme information.
    (Different combinations depending on the context.)

    More Episodes
    Play On Demand
    Play Recording
    Set Reminder
    Set Recording
    Edit Recording
    Watch Now
    Watch Now in HD
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,346Member ✭✭✭
    edited 3 February 2017, 11:53PM
    jimb said:

    For the sake of completeness (and for the benefit of those whose memories of the FirstGen UI are fading), these are the functions that used to be available when you requested programme information.
    (Different combinations depending on the context.)

    More Episodes
    Play On Demand
    Play Recording
    Set Reminder
    Set Recording
    Edit Recording
    Watch Now
    Watch Now in HD

    Happy memories :-)
    Off travelling for a while... internet patchy to non-existent....
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    (This is all simply my opinion...)
    It seems to me that there are two possibilities.
    1) This is a work in progress and some or all of these functions will be restored in due course.
    2) YouView have decided that they're not important and they're not planning on bringing them back.

    My money is on the second option.
    This is because I think there are two principles that feature prominently in YouView's thinking.
    1) A desire to keep things as simple as possible. The target audience is those who don't expect a technically complex and sophisticated device, they just want basic functionality that is very intuitive.
    2) A desire for the UI to "look good". A design that is clean, uncluttered and stylish. The new EPG is a good example - it's more symmetrical than the old version and has been stripped back to what they perceive to be the essential functions.
    They probably regard the old programme information screen as rather messy and unnecessarily complicated.

    Time will tell.
    But for me, as someone recently remarked, "This does not augur well for the future".
    :-(
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,618Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 February 2017, 9:17PM
    jimb said:

    For the sake of completeness (and for the benefit of those whose memories of the FirstGen UI are fading), these are the functions that used to be available when you requested programme information.
    (Different combinations depending on the context.)

    More Episodes
    Play On Demand
    Play Recording
    Set Reminder
    Set Recording
    Edit Recording
    Watch Now
    Watch Now in HD

    If your list includes Play Recording, you forgot the time bar jump facility. But Edit Recording?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,346Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 February 2017, 11:40PM
    jimb said:

    (This is all simply my opinion...)
    It seems to me that there are two possibilities.
    1) This is a work in progress and some or all of these functions will be restored in due course.
    2) YouView have decided that they're not important and they're not planning on bringing them back.

    My money is on the second option.
    This is because I think there are two principles that feature prominently in YouView's thinking.
    1) A desire to keep things as simple as possible. The target audience is those who don't expect a technically complex and sophisticated device, they just want basic functionality that is very intuitive.
    2) A desire for the UI to "look good". A design that is clean, uncluttered and stylish. The new EPG is a good example - it's more symmetrical than the old version and has been stripped back to what they perceive to be the essential functions.
    They probably regard the old programme information screen as rather messy and unnecessarily complicated.

    Time will tell.
    But for me, as someone recently remarked, "This does not augur well for the future".
    :-(

    I wonder who said that? :-)

    But it is very firmly possibility (1), though there is perhaps room in the 'some' there for a proportion of your fears to come true.

    Reat assured though, we will be holding YouView's feet to the fire if there is not at least one straightforward way to do everything we can do now by the time NextGen is announced as 'finished'.

    After which, we expect the rapid leveraging of the new way of developing to start making significant inroads into Keith's lists :-)
    Off travelling for a while... internet patchy to non-existent....
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,618Member ✭✭✭
    edited 3 February 2017, 12:44AM
    jimb said:

    (This is all simply my opinion...)
    It seems to me that there are two possibilities.
    1) This is a work in progress and some or all of these functions will be restored in due course.
    2) YouView have decided that they're not important and they're not planning on bringing them back.

    My money is on the second option.
    This is because I think there are two principles that feature prominently in YouView's thinking.
    1) A desire to keep things as simple as possible. The target audience is those who don't expect a technically complex and sophisticated device, they just want basic functionality that is very intuitive.
    2) A desire for the UI to "look good". A design that is clean, uncluttered and stylish. The new EPG is a good example - it's more symmetrical than the old version and has been stripped back to what they perceive to be the essential functions.
    They probably regard the old programme information screen as rather messy and unnecessarily complicated.

    Time will tell.
    But for me, as someone recently remarked, "This does not augur well for the future".
    :-(

    ''It seems to me that there are two possibilities.
    1) This is a work in progress and some or all of these functions will be restored in due course.
    2) YouView have decided that they're not important and they're not planning on bringing them back.''
    Its number 1.
    Can you imagine a major disruptive market force launching a new replacement platform that when finished was worse than the one before? I can't, because that would be both commercial and ISP suicide.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,346Member ✭✭✭
    edited 3 February 2017, 7:09AM
    jimb said:

    (This is all simply my opinion...)
    It seems to me that there are two possibilities.
    1) This is a work in progress and some or all of these functions will be restored in due course.
    2) YouView have decided that they're not important and they're not planning on bringing them back.

    My money is on the second option.
    This is because I think there are two principles that feature prominently in YouView's thinking.
    1) A desire to keep things as simple as possible. The target audience is those who don't expect a technically complex and sophisticated device, they just want basic functionality that is very intuitive.
    2) A desire for the UI to "look good". A design that is clean, uncluttered and stylish. The new EPG is a good example - it's more symmetrical than the old version and has been stripped back to what they perceive to be the essential functions.
    They probably regard the old programme information screen as rather messy and unnecessarily complicated.

    Time will tell.
    But for me, as someone recently remarked, "This does not augur well for the future".
    :-(

    Though note, alas, that we wait in vain for GetSatisfaction to implement in the current iteration of this Community software some of the things we used to rely on in the legacy version, such as the Change Log.

    Though, given that the Community software used to discussed, or railed at, almost rather more than it was used, and this is no longer the case, perhaps things have improved. Or maybe we are all in Stockholm :-)

    But those of us with long memories recall, with a shudder, GetSat putting us through their own CurrentGen/NextGen traumatic regrade with the forum software we are now using to discuss the traumatic regrade of the YouView software itself:-

    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Let's hope it mostly settles down in the same way.
    Off travelling for a while... internet patchy to non-existent....
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,180Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    VERY good news...
    Apparently what we've been discussing here YouView refer to as the "Action panel"
    Action Panel means the list of actions in the half-screen panel that comes up when you press (i), which is currently only an Info Panel. Equivalent to the list of buttons down the left-hand side of the info panel in the first-gen UI.
    And this is a feature which will be restored in due course.

    (If someone wants to mark this thread as "solved" please go ahead. It's nice to see this done occasionally.)
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,346Member ✭✭✭
    edited 3 July 2017, 8:46PM
    jimb said:

    VERY good news...
    Apparently what we've been discussing here YouView refer to as the "Action panel"

    Action Panel means the list of actions in the half-screen panel that comes up when you press (i), which is currently only an Info Panel. Equivalent to the list of buttons down the left-hand side of the info panel in the first-gen UI.
    And this is a feature which will be restored in due course.

    (If someone wants to mark this thread as "solved" please go ahead. It's nice to see this done occasionally.)Shouldn't we reserve 'Solved' for the day we see it actually working?
    Off travelling for a while... internet patchy to non-existent....
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