How to prevent your box updating to Next Generation

jimbjimb Posts: 1,121Member ✭✭✭
edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM in Discussion
Perhaps you've decided that you would prefer not to receive the latest software update (Next Generation) at the moment.
Then you might consider this:
image
(Set it to turn the mains power off between midnight and 7am.)

Available from a well known online company, £8.74 including postage.
:-)
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Comments

  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,495Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 8:57PM
    Actually 2am - 4am will do it. Or save oneself £8.74 by disconnecting the ethernet cable at night.
  • DanielDaniel Posts: 1,948Member ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    No good if you record shows during that time.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    I understood that if you missed the overnight update, it would install as soon as you turned the box on the next day.
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,495Member ✭✭✭
    edited 24 February 2017, 11:28PM
    Daniel4 said:

    No good if you record shows during that time.

    Do ya want da IP show? Or do ya want da update??
    It really all depends how badly a user wants to avoid an update. Personal choice and all that.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,495Member ✭✭✭
    edited 24 February 2017, 11:00PM
    Roy1 said:

    I understood that if you missed the overnight update, it would install as soon as you turned the box on the next day.

    You'll have to check that one with YouView.
  • DanielDaniel Posts: 1,948Member ✭✭✭
    edited 24 February 2017, 11:31PM
    Daniel4 said:

    No good if you record shows during that time.

    I think we all know I'm chomping at the bit to get the update
  • alal Posts: 1,298Member ✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 8:57PM
    How about configuring the router to block the youview box between those hours?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 25 February 2017, 9:30AM
    Roy1 said:

    I understood that if you missed the overnight update, it would install as soon as you turned the box on the next day.

    Pretty certain Sanj has already described this somewhere in the Community, though I expect only Keith could find the relevant posting :-(

    But here's a TT thread, including an official post from an OCE, that pretty much bears me out:-

    https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/T...
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,429Member, Champion mod
    edited 19 April 2017, 1:20PM
    Roy1 said:

    I understood that if you missed the overnight update, it would install as soon as you turned the box on the next day.

    The info on the official support page for software updates does not clearly officially confirm this feature.

    I would generally interpret what is written there as trying to say the box gets its updates overnight so you either leave it connected to get automatic updates or you manually force them when it suits you in the day. Due to the wording there though one could interpret the text differently such that it implies the updates normally happen overnight but provided you generally connect the box to the network then it will still get updates without manual intervention (in some unspecified way/timing), although you can manually intervene too if you wish to check/test it.

    For the avoidance of doubt going forwards, if the box does do a check on coming out of standby and apply software updates then it would be good if Sanj could update that FAQ accordingly. If the box will only automatically receive updates if connected over night then it would be good to adjust the second sentence on that page to make that absolutely clear, reinforcing the first sentence. Ideally one would further change that page to clarify more specifically when overnight it looks for the updates, e.g. typically 2am-4am.
  • DanielDaniel Posts: 1,948Member ✭✭✭
    edited 25 February 2017, 10:28AM
    Roy1 said:

    I understood that if you missed the overnight update, it would install as soon as you turned the box on the next day.

    That post does nothing to further your position the only way to be certain you will avoid the update is to leave the internet out permanent as surely we all know the box will look for updates upon powering up and it defies logic to have a youview box without the internet as the players would be unavailable or as I ask again are you going to explain to the ops mam she can't use the players anymore. The talk talk oce has basically missed important information off his post as he don't mention about the update check on start up and unfortunately roy your posts have added nothing at all to this thread.
  • DanielDaniel Posts: 1,948Member ✭✭✭
    edited 25 February 2017, 10:28AM
    Roy1 said:

    I understood that if you missed the overnight update, it would install as soon as you turned the box on the next day.

    My post is applicable to the other thread as well
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,121Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 April 2017, 10:49AM
    Given that powering the box off overnight may not be a good solution here's a couple more...

    Plan B: If you're using powerline adaptors plug one of these into a mains timer.

    Plan C: Insert a network switch (this is effectively an ethernet splitter) into the cable between your router and your box, and plug its power supply into a mains timer. (These devices are also pretty cheap.)

    Both these methods will effectively "unplug" the internet connection during the night. And they have the advantage of not messing up all your late night recordings - just the ones from internet channels.  :-)
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,121Member ✭✭✭
    edited 25 February 2017, 10:58AM
    Roy1 said:

    I understood that if you missed the overnight update, it would install as soon as you turned the box on the next day.

    Here's a couple more bits of info.

    I've just plugged in an old box. After the usual start up it said hang on a minute while I check for updates, and then said there's an update available do you want to do this now or skip it.

    Also I left my main box powered down last night. When I turned it on I looked at the settings and it did NOT say that it had checked for an update today.

    So this is inconclusive and it would be good to get a definitive answer to this question. However there are other options, see below.
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,121Member ✭✭✭
    edited 19 April 2017, 1:20PM
    Visionman said:

    Actually 2am - 4am will do it. Or save oneself £8.74 by disconnecting the ethernet cable at night.

    Disconnecting the ethernet cable every night by hand is really not a good solution. You only have to forget on one occasion and the box will update (irreversibly!)
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 25 February 2017, 7:26PM
    Daniel4 said:

    No good if you record shows during that time.

    Daniel, I really hope you get it soon!
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 19 April 2017, 1:23PM
    If Sanj can kindly give us the IP address(es) of the update servers, assuming they are different from other servers, and don't update anything else important, then we can configure our routers to block any packets from them, while still letting the Players, and other services, run.

    Feasible?
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,429Member, Champion mod
    edited 25 February 2017, 8:55PM
    Roy1 said:

    If Sanj can kindly give us the IP address(es) of the update servers, assuming they are different from other servers, and don't update anything else important, then we can configure our routers to block any packets from them, while still letting the Players, and other services, run.

    Feasible?

    Some rather old info, but that may still be (partially) valid, is in this old topic on IPs, hostnames and ports the YouView box accesses for different functions.

    From that one might deduce that one may need to block some of
    • updates-live.youview.tv   - 23.55.59.176, 23.55.59.187
    • config-live.youview.tv       - 23.55.59.168, 96.7.51.32
    • ids-live.youview.tv             - 23.55.59.176, 23.55.59.179
    • ispconfig-live.youview.tv - 95.101.128.130, 95.101.128.193
    (where the IPs are what one gets if one does a DNS lookup now).

    Really though one should repeat the exercise Anaglypta did back then to see what the box tries to contact and then put in blocks as appropriate. I'll leave that as an exercise for the interested reader ;-)
  • StephenStephen Posts: 688Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 10 March 2017, 7:06PM
    Roy1 said:

    I understood that if you missed the overnight update, it would install as soon as you turned the box on the next day.

    To answer the queries, the old software will, on the UI starting up*, check whether the box has looked for updates in the last seven days. If not, it will perform a check itself and start downloading any available update, and present you a dialogue at the same time as to whether to accept the update or not. If you say yes, the update will be applied when it finishes downloading. If you say no, the update will stop downloading, the part-downloaded file will be deleted, and the UI will not re-check on startup for another seven days.

    This on-UI-startup check and the overnight check are the only ones automatically performed. The overnight one is the only one that automatically applies found updates.


    * = For completeness, UI startup is subtly different to bootup - it happens obviously on full boot but also if the box has been in standby for more than 5m and is resumed, and also when you change skin/theme and finally in the rare eventuality that the UI process crashes.
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,121Member ✭✭✭
    edited 25 February 2017, 10:57PM
    Roy1 said:

    I understood that if you missed the overnight update, it would install as soon as you turned the box on the next day.

    That's really useful Stephen.
    Thanks very much.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 10 March 2017, 9:04PM
    Roy1 said:

    I understood that if you missed the overnight update, it would install as soon as you turned the box on the next day.

    OK, so an overnight power-down will work, as long as you watch the startups from week to week, ready to decline the update when presented.

    The price of freedom (from NextGen) is eternal vigilance....
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • Richard MRichard M Posts: 18Member
    edited 25 February 2017, 11:35PM
    Roy1 said:

    If Sanj can kindly give us the IP address(es) of the update servers, assuming they are different from other servers, and don't update anything else important, then we can configure our routers to block any packets from them, while still letting the Players, and other services, run.

    Feasible?

    Thank you for those IP addresses, I'll add them to my routers block list. Can't be having recordings showing as thumbnails, the list of recordings are perfect the way it is.
  • StephenStephen Posts: 688Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 26 February 2017, 12:03AM
    Roy1 said:

    If Sanj can kindly give us the IP address(es) of the update servers, assuming they are different from other servers, and don't update anything else important, then we can configure our routers to block any packets from them, while still letting the Players, and other services, run.

    Feasible?

    Please note that those services are hosted by a CDN, which uses a massive pool of IP addresses which are also most likely shared with other unrelated websites, so you should always refer to these kinds of services by hostname, never IP.
  • Richard MRichard M Posts: 18Member
    edited 19 April 2017, 1:23PM
    Roy1 said:

    If Sanj can kindly give us the IP address(es) of the update servers, assuming they are different from other servers, and don't update anything else important, then we can configure our routers to block any packets from them, while still letting the Players, and other services, run.

    Feasible?

    Thanks. I've looked into blocking the IP addresses and the Hub 6 doesn't seem to support this feature. I have though but access controls on to block network access to the YouView boxes between 2am and 4am... I shouldn't have to do this, and also must remember to not set any BT TV channels to record between these times.

    Just wish YouView would listen and give people options, I really really hate having recordings set to thumbnail view so making sure I don't get this update.

    Just to confirm that it's definitely 2am to 4am?
  • StephenStephen Posts: 688Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 26 February 2017, 11:03AM
    Roy1 said:

    If Sanj can kindly give us the IP address(es) of the update servers, assuming they are different from other servers, and don't update anything else important, then we can configure our routers to block any packets from them, while still letting the Players, and other services, run.

    Feasible?

    Looking at the current box config, software updates look to be set to be between 1am-3am.

    Also it would be remiss of me to fail to correct Keith that he has not copied the complete list of servers from the other thread. And that that list is (partially) specific to Humax+Zen.

    Anyone fascinated by the update procedure could also consult the publicly-accessible original YouView spec for hints and light bedtime reading, esp with ref to why there are 4 (sic) update sources (see VI.5/6/7).
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 19 April 2017, 1:23PM
    Roy1 said:

    If Sanj can kindly give us the IP address(es) of the update servers, assuming they are different from other servers, and don't update anything else important, then we can configure our routers to block any packets from them, while still letting the Players, and other services, run.

    Feasible?

    Is that from the Wayback Machine?

    Bit like the planning notice for the intergalactic space bypass...

    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/40705...
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,495Member ✭✭✭
    edited 26 February 2017, 2:37AM
    Roy1 said:

    If Sanj can kindly give us the IP address(es) of the update servers, assuming they are different from other servers, and don't update anything else important, then we can configure our routers to block any packets from them, while still letting the Players, and other services, run.

    Feasible?

    Thanks Stephen. I've been looking for/trying to retrieve that link and info for two and a bit years, but as far as I can tell, they keep on moving it. All 229 pages of it. Where is it locally stored?  'Belgium'?
    http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/83573/why-is-belgium-the-rudest-word-in-hitchikers-guide-to...
  • Richard MRichard M Posts: 18Member
    edited 8 May 2017, 1:10PM
    Managed to block all my YouView boxes from accessing the internet between 1am and 4am... I shouldn't have to do this but a man's got to do what a man's got to do! I'll only use Next Gen if you can view recordings as lists via a software update/option in settings. imageimage
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,429Member, Champion mod
    edited 16 March 2017, 9:49AM
    Roy1 said:

    If Sanj can kindly give us the IP address(es) of the update servers, assuming they are different from other servers, and don't update anything else important, then we can configure our routers to block any packets from them, while still letting the Players, and other services, run.

    Feasible?

    Thanks Stephen for the added insight and documentation :)

    I would speculate how narrowly or widely to block would depend on whether one wishes to surgically block just a particular feature or to block a range/all network related features. I expect you cannot publicly confirm, but I might hope one could just block a single piece/step of the software update check process (perhaps just updates-live.youview.tv) and hence prevent all updates, which may then be quite a focused block and thus minimise the chance it could affect other features.

    I'm happy not to block updates and don't have a large farm of YouView boxes nor a means to revert the software to a previous update, so doing a systematic trial and error process to try to narrow down the minimum to block to stop updates is something I will not be investigating directly. I suppose one could block widely and confirm that stops updates and then remove elements of the block a step at a time until one finds a piece that when removed allows the update (check) to go through. Even so one would ideally still have a handful of boxes to draw a conclusion and then test it thoroughly.

    All in all it would be a lot easier if
    • YouView implemented a simple settings option to allow the user to turn off update checking overnight and weekly on startup (the default being that it does do these checks and hence boxes are generally kept up to date)
    • make some rapid progress on polishing up the next gen system, starting with the areas where functionality is (now) inefficient or missing (e.g. channel hiding, MyTV journeys, ability to type in a minute to jump to in a recording, bring back the discover section) or where the new interface has seriously affected some people's ability to use the box (e.g. offer a list view option for MyTV to support accessibility or simple preference)
    • consider that surfacing very overt ISP branding based purely on the ISP connection and not the underlying provenance of the box and/or valid TV subscription should be made optional (with the default being that such branding is off if you do not have a suitable TV subscription)
    • address a handful of the easier improvements or fixes people have suggested, be it in response to the next gen launch or more generally over the last 4+ years (e.g. option to not show the menu on startup or set a shorter display time before it disappears, faster fast forward speeds, better access to reset/maintenance mode options from within the main UI, filter to hide from search results material you do not have a subscription for, automatic joining of split recordings - to name but a few)
    Overall I don't think it would take that much to turn the recent (tidal) wave of negative feedback (here) into a much calmer sea (whilst of course noting that there are no doubt many many people who are content with the next gen update even in its current unpolished state) :)
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,121Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2017, 8:57PM
    I've been very impressed by all the IT based suggestions, but going down this road would worry me - if by chance this doesn't catch the update there's no way back.

    So I'm going to go for the old school approach. Plan B. I've just ordered a mains timer which I shall fit to one of my powerline adaptors.

    I just hope it arrives before the BT rollout starts.
    :-;
  • stormystormy Posts: 1,025Member ✭✭
    edited 27 February 2017, 4:06PM
    Daniel4 said:

    No good if you record shows during that time.

    I hope you like it. :)
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