[Discussion] Humax software update 27.46.0

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Comments

  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 12:00AM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    Cool, so I certainly won't be saying anything like: Andy, I've no idea who you are or why you're here, I'm sure you have your reasons...
  • Andy15Andy15 Member Posts: 12
    edited 10 March 2017, 11:59PM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    Glad we cleared that up then
  • Andy15Andy15 Member Posts: 12
    edited 11 March 2017, 12:02AM

    Some very amusing comments on this thread today from a couple of people trying to pretend there is no problem here, on the basis that it's OK if 95% of people posting don't like/want this update, because there are plenty of other users who haven't bothered to post. This reminds me very strongly of the Blackberry forums a few years ago - much loved platform, starts to get criticised on forums because developments do not actually pay attention to what customers need/want, and a few hardcore Blackberry addicts react with fury and argue that there must be lots of people who like it and those posting should just go away and get used to it. We all know how that ended up...

    Lights blue touch paper, retreats 20 paces. :-)
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 12:06AM

    Some very amusing comments on this thread today from a couple of people trying to pretend there is no problem here, on the basis that it's OK if 95% of people posting don't like/want this update, because there are plenty of other users who haven't bothered to post. This reminds me very strongly of the Blackberry forums a few years ago - much loved platform, starts to get criticised on forums because developments do not actually pay attention to what customers need/want, and a few hardcore Blackberry addicts react with fury and argue that there must be lots of people who like it and those posting should just go away and get used to it. We all know how that ended up...

    LOL not at all.  ;)
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,952 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 12:36AM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    redchiz - These new forum users need a 'thing' to hate. A point of reference to beat out their frustration upon. Which at the moment is anyone here that chooses to defend it in any form whatsoever.
    Though in all my years on the internet, I have never, ever, seen a new forum user (often referred to as a newbie) slate a regular and established forum member for just being a regular forum member. Poor to say the least.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 12:36AM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    Cheers VM. I'll get over it. :)
  • Dave Howes2Dave Howes2 Member Posts: 246
    edited 25 March 2017, 9:28PM
    image I've just been readying an old Humax HDR Fox T2 with custom firmware against the time when, inevitably, the dreaded 'upgrade' happens to us, and I noticed that this is one of the options for listings, you can choose lists, icons, or both! What a sensible option. Bearing in mind that this is cobbled together by a small bunch of amateurs in their spare time, surely Youview could come up with similar choices? You can also have any background image or colour you want, or the TV playing, or even a slideshow of your own photos if that's what floats your boat. Brilliant stuff!
    (Not my photo by the way, camera battery flat).
     
    image

    Interesting to note what it's doing as well - copying a video to a flash drive :~)
    This is also a feature of the official firmware.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,952 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 1:37AM

    image I've just been readying an old Humax HDR Fox T2 with custom firmware against the time when, inevitably, the dreaded 'upgrade' happens to us, and I noticed that this is one of the options for listings, you can choose lists, icons, or both! What a sensible option. Bearing in mind that this is cobbled together by a small bunch of amateurs in their spare time, surely Youview could come up with similar choices? You can also have any background image or colour you want, or the TV playing, or even a slideshow of your own photos if that's what floats your boat. Brilliant stuff!
    (Not my photo by the way, camera battery flat).
     
    image

    Interesting to note what it's doing as well - copying a video to a flash drive :~)
    This is also a feature of the official firmware.

    image"I've just been readying an old Humax HDR Fox T2 with custom firmware."
    I'm sure they'll sell in there millions, Dave, whilst YouView addresses the many complaints that have arisen on here. 
    Are there any odds available on the T2 CF overtaking the T2 proprietary? I might fancy a fiver on it. 
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • Dave Howes2Dave Howes2 Member Posts: 246
    edited 11 March 2017, 1:44AM

    image I've just been readying an old Humax HDR Fox T2 with custom firmware against the time when, inevitably, the dreaded 'upgrade' happens to us, and I noticed that this is one of the options for listings, you can choose lists, icons, or both! What a sensible option. Bearing in mind that this is cobbled together by a small bunch of amateurs in their spare time, surely Youview could come up with similar choices? You can also have any background image or colour you want, or the TV playing, or even a slideshow of your own photos if that's what floats your boat. Brilliant stuff!
    (Not my photo by the way, camera battery flat).
     
    image

    Interesting to note what it's doing as well - copying a video to a flash drive :~)
    This is also a feature of the official firmware.

    Again, you've missed the point of the post, partly that you can have icons AND sensible navigation and being able to see what it is, but mostly that choice is possible and easy to implement, and would keep everybody happy..
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,952 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 1:56AM

    image I've just been readying an old Humax HDR Fox T2 with custom firmware against the time when, inevitably, the dreaded 'upgrade' happens to us, and I noticed that this is one of the options for listings, you can choose lists, icons, or both! What a sensible option. Bearing in mind that this is cobbled together by a small bunch of amateurs in their spare time, surely Youview could come up with similar choices? You can also have any background image or colour you want, or the TV playing, or even a slideshow of your own photos if that's what floats your boat. Brilliant stuff!
    (Not my photo by the way, camera battery flat).
     
    image

    Interesting to note what it's doing as well - copying a video to a flash drive :~)
    This is also a feature of the official firmware.

    I'm fully aware of all the kit available on the market today and the all the faults incumbent in such. And so are many many others on here. I have a spare saw, if you like. 
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • Babs BukunolaBabs Bukunola Member Posts: 46
    edited 11 March 2017, 7:47AM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    Redchiz  ,  re - you  '...couldn't agree more,'
    And yet a couple of hrs earlier your declaration about non complainers almost amounted to the opposite.
     
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,358 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 7:08AM
    Steve D2 said:

    Phil of YouView(not any more, I don't)

    It's good that you read the forums and take the time to let people know that you're listening, but i'd wager that the depth of feeling here - much of which comes from people who have registered specifically to ask you to revert the software - is at odds with whatever your user testing is telling you. 

    Even then, it would be a moot point if you simply gave your customers control over which software load their unit is running. But you won't, which is just a little shy of lunacy. 

    If you won't allow customers to opt-out of future updates, won't allow customers to revert this update, and if you cannot accept that your UX, design and UI teams (assuming they exist) have got it 'wrong' this time, then I will not be a customer for much longer (I'm looking for a replacement this weekend, as it goes).

    When I do find a replacement for my almost-new Humax unit, I'll be sure to leave an appropriate one-star review on Amazon (where I bought it from), and I'll also leave corresponding reviews on mainstream retailer websites across the UK.

    That might sound vindictive, but the truth is that I don't think anyone should have this sort of **** foisted on them by Humax, and given that elements of the UI are now almost unusable, I think it's the responsibility of your spurned and ignored ex-customers to let others know what sort of business model Humax is running, and what sort of UX and CX they can expect. 

    Steve D, for yourself and the five people who Liked this, it's important to get your facts straight here.

    Blaming Humax for the new YouView UI is like blaming Dell for Windows 8.

    When YouView first designed their software offering, they needed a hardware platform it could run on, so they published a specification for such hardware. Both Humax and Huawei stepped up to the plate and offered to build PVRs that met it.

    So when you buy, or receive on subscription, a YouView box, it will have been made by one of these two manufacturers, but the presentation software running on it is all YouView.

    And it is the YouView layer that has changed; they may have asked Humax and Huawei for a few firmware tweaks to support it, perhaps not even that, but these two companies have no control over, and very little say in, what the YouView layer should look like.

    And certainly no input at the level of UI change being discussed here.

    People here have spoken about reputational damage to Humax, and this will also apply, though to a much lesser extent, to Huawei.

    And I guess such 'guilt by association' damage will be unavoidable, as many people will be unaware of the distinction that needs to be made here, as you were.

    But Humax are not a perpetrator here.

    You don't like the goods on the lorry; fair enough. But please don't make the mistake of blaming the manufacturer of the lorry that delivers them :-(
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
  • Steve D2Steve D2 Member Posts: 11
    edited 11 March 2017, 9:36PM
    Steve D2 said:

    Phil of YouView(not any more, I don't)

    It's good that you read the forums and take the time to let people know that you're listening, but i'd wager that the depth of feeling here - much of which comes from people who have registered specifically to ask you to revert the software - is at odds with whatever your user testing is telling you. 

    Even then, it would be a moot point if you simply gave your customers control over which software load their unit is running. But you won't, which is just a little shy of lunacy. 

    If you won't allow customers to opt-out of future updates, won't allow customers to revert this update, and if you cannot accept that your UX, design and UI teams (assuming they exist) have got it 'wrong' this time, then I will not be a customer for much longer (I'm looking for a replacement this weekend, as it goes).

    When I do find a replacement for my almost-new Humax unit, I'll be sure to leave an appropriate one-star review on Amazon (where I bought it from), and I'll also leave corresponding reviews on mainstream retailer websites across the UK.

    That might sound vindictive, but the truth is that I don't think anyone should have this sort of **** foisted on them by Humax, and given that elements of the UI are now almost unusable, I think it's the responsibility of your spurned and ignored ex-customers to let others know what sort of business model Humax is running, and what sort of UX and CX they can expect. 

    An important correction and distinction, Roy. I'll be sure to acknowledge it in my reviews. Thanks.
  • SRBSRB Member Posts: 15
    edited 2 April 2017, 8:20PM

    image I've just been readying an old Humax HDR Fox T2 with custom firmware against the time when, inevitably, the dreaded 'upgrade' happens to us, and I noticed that this is one of the options for listings, you can choose lists, icons, or both! What a sensible option. Bearing in mind that this is cobbled together by a small bunch of amateurs in their spare time, surely Youview could come up with similar choices? You can also have any background image or colour you want, or the TV playing, or even a slideshow of your own photos if that's what floats your boat. Brilliant stuff!
    (Not my photo by the way, camera battery flat).
     
    image

    Interesting to note what it's doing as well - copying a video to a flash drive :~)
    This is also a feature of the official firmware.

    Having been a "serial tester" for over 17years now, (original TIVO, iPlayer, BT Vision being amongst the products) what surprises me most of all about the update is that either the "test group" for this, didn't actually bother to use it, or that YouView totally ignored their feedback. Basic gripes like "no simple list of recordings", "no customisable channel lists" are so basic - even my 10 year old complained about them - there is no way these would not have been spotted. What on earth is the point of having a test group and still getting something so wrong. My Mrs hates it, my daughter's hate it, so much so it looks like YouView will be out the door of our living room this afternoon. Going shopping for a freesat box instead. Shame. Really is a shame.
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 8:22AM

    Some very amusing comments on this thread today from a couple of people trying to pretend there is no problem here, on the basis that it's OK if 95% of people posting don't like/want this update, because there are plenty of other users who haven't bothered to post. This reminds me very strongly of the Blackberry forums a few years ago - much loved platform, starts to get criticised on forums because developments do not actually pay attention to what customers need/want, and a few hardcore Blackberry addicts react with fury and argue that there must be lots of people who like it and those posting should just go away and get used to it. We all know how that ended up...

    Isnt it funny how people use an example that totally DISSPROVES their point....
    The main reason attributed to blackberrys demise is because they refused to take notice of this radical new Ui from a little product called an iPhone. Flately refusing to believe people would take to this change and accept using a touchscreen to type on rather than stick with the full hardware button keyboard. By the time they realised people were actually not only accepting but actually liking the new ui they were dead in the water.
    Exactly the opposite of what youview have done.
    People calling for it to revert or stay the same would end up with a blackberry youview box ;-)
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,358 ✭✭✭
    edited 19 March 2017, 6:48PM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    In the old days, forum newbies were encouraged to lurk for ages before daring to post, or risk being shot down in flames.

    Those days are thankfully past, but there are a few things to know, perhaps, about this forum.

    Firstly, while there is indeed an official YouView presence here, this is primarily a peer-to-peer forum.

    So querying the motives, let alone the presence, of longtime forum members is bang out of order.

    Secondly, we are generally polite to one another here. Please try to preserve this praiseworthy aspect of the forum.

    The odd exceptions we get are usually stamped on, though - and the postings removed entire - so best not to risk losing all the good points you make in a posting because of one intemperate comment therein.

    Thirdly, though, I (dare I say WE?) FEEL YOUR PAIN. Yes, you are angry. Yes, you want YouView to know that.

    No, you didn't battle your way into finding this forum and posting on it, only to be told by some well-meaning but misguided denizen that it's all OK, really, or they actually like it, and so could you if you would only try :-(

    I guess you also don't want to be told you are a small minority, and probably the silent majority love it. I suspect they don't :-)

    My personal feeling, for what's it's worth, is that the new UI should not have been released generally until all, or almost all, of the existing functionality in the old version had been added back, and most of the major UI failings, such as in the area of Series handling, had been corrected.

    But it is taking a long time to do these things (something that is itself worrying, given the early promises of massively improved development responsiveness), and maybe YouView felt they shouldn't wait.

    Maybe they should have hung on, though, especially in a world where the update is pushed to you without the option to refuse it, and cannot be reversed.

    I was a little surprised at the calls for list view to come back, at first. I am less so now. Thinking about it, I run my Windows laptops with Details as the default folder view, not icons. So maybe I've been telling myself something :-)

    Bit of a debacle here, though, whichever way you slice it.

    Those who do not learn the lessons of 'New Coke' are condemned to repeat them :-(
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,358 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 8:42AM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    In the old days, forum newbies were encouraged to lurk for ages before daring to post, or risk being shot down in flames.

    Those days are thankfully past, but there are a few things to know, perhaps, about this forum.

    Firstly, while there is indeed an official YouView presence here, this is primarily a peer-to-peer forum.

    So querying the motives, let alone the presence, of longtime forum members is bang out of order.

    Secondly, we are generally polite to one another here. Please try to preserve this praiseworthy aspect of the forum.

    The odd exceptions we get are usually stamped on, though - and the postings removed entire - so best not to risk losing all the good points you make in a posting because of one intemperate comment therein.

    Thirdly, though, I (dare I say WE?) FEEL YOUR PAIN. Yes, you are angry. Yes, you want YouView to know that.

    No, you didn't battle your way into finding this forum and posting on it, only to be told by some well-meaning but misguided denizen that it's all OK, really, or they actually like it, and so could you if you would only try :-(

    I guess you also don't want to be told you are a small minority, and probably the silent majority love it. I suspect they don't :-)

    My personal feeling, for what's it's worth, is that the new UI should not have been released generally until all, or almost all, of the existing functionality in the old version had been added back, and most of the major UI failings, such as in the area of Series handling, had been corrected.

    But it is taking a long time to do these things (something that is itself worrying, given the early promises of massively improved development responsiveness), and maybe YouView felt they shouldn't wait.

    Maybe they should have hung on, though, especially in a world where the update is pushed to you without the option to refuse it, and cannot be reversed.

    I was a little surprised at the calls for list view to come back, at first. I am less so now. Thinking about it, I run my Windows laptops with Details as the default folder view, not icons. So maybe I've been telling myself something :-)

    Bit of a debacle here, though, whichever way you slice it.

    Those who do not learn the lessons of 'New Coke' are condemned to repeat them :-(
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
  • Andy15Andy15 Member Posts: 12
    edited 2 April 2017, 8:12PM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    Here's what I see. A load of people have come here to vent to the manufacturer about a recent change. It's unhelpful to them, regardless of how well-intentioned, for people to question their assessment of that change. It's their opinion and it's legit. There's also a load of seasoned forum users who are well-invested in the platform and have very strong opinions of their own, which they're equally entitled to. This "friction" started when a pair of seemingly regular forum users started to question the assessment of some new users, who are clearly not happy already. One even suggested that they were over-reacting and should use different words to describe the issues. Their reaction is theirs alone and it's nobody's place to question their feelings or the words they choose to use as, in the context of PVTs and this forum, it's relative. That's where I think this started to escalate and has now become a situation of "them-and-us".

    I've said plenty TO THE SOFTWARE MANUFACTURER about my own feelings towards their Next Gen software and the manner in which it happened, so I'm outta here. You can have your forum back now. Unless of course others turn up in the days and weeks to come to complain about the same thing, in which case you can treat them the same and it'll get heated, or you could give them the space to provide feedback and vent and they'll likely leave again more quickly.

    No hard feelings!
  • Dave Howes2Dave Howes2 Member Posts: 246
    edited 11 April 2017, 7:35PM

    Some very amusing comments on this thread today from a couple of people trying to pretend there is no problem here, on the basis that it's OK if 95% of people posting don't like/want this update, because there are plenty of other users who haven't bothered to post. This reminds me very strongly of the Blackberry forums a few years ago - much loved platform, starts to get criticised on forums because developments do not actually pay attention to what customers need/want, and a few hardcore Blackberry addicts react with fury and argue that there must be lots of people who like it and those posting should just go away and get used to it. We all know how that ended up...

    Would that be the Blackberry phone that's just been reissued with an Android OS, and has sold out in pre-orders before they've even been made? ;~)
    Probably a better comparison would be the Reciva internet radio - a brilliant thing that came out around ten years ago (I've got two). Unfortunately, the company that made them kept coming up with firmware updates that continually made major changes, until a couple of people in the user group got fed up and produced their own firmware, which absolutely everybody installed. Since then the company has gone bust, the user group have taken over the web end of the system, the custom firmware is still working perfectly eight years later, with no updates, and following a very successful Kickstarter campaign new sets will be available shortly, using a Raspberry Pi as the main board instead of the original Barracuda boards. You can even download a free distro to build your own. Meanwhile my ten year old radio just sits there in the kitchen and works, the only difference being that the number of available stations has increased from twenty thousand to three-quarters of a million!
  • Dave DriverDave Driver Member Posts: 32
    edited 11 March 2017, 5:31PM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    I'm sorry if my comment about regular forumites was offensive. It wasn't meant that way. I have been on other forums in the past, where you start to get to know a little group of people and you chat about this and that as well as whatever it is that the forum's about. It's a cosy little world and it wouldn't be surprising if that cosy little group were a bit miffed to be invaded by a whole load of new people doing nothing but complain about the thing you've all been chatting about for ages.

    So I'm sorry if I assumed that this was how it was here. I am one of those unhappy invaders who is here to complain, justifiably IMHO. And if someone tells me that what I am complaining about is OK really, or that I'll get used to it, I have every right to be annoyed, because it's my opinion that it's not OK really, and I don't want to get used to something that is substandard.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,358 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 8:32PM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    Hi Dave

    I am embarrassed, on behalf of you and the other recent incomers, by the person on this forum who is doing that, and being not just unhelpful, but downright rude :-(

    I have requested that action be taken to stop this, and we must see what Monday brings :-)

    The normal pattern of activity on this forum is that there are the regulars, who indeed chat among ourselves, but we are quite firm about staying on topic, albeit the the topic we stay on isn't just YouView, but the wider world of in-home media consumption generally, albeit with a strong focus on YouView itself.

    This is leavened by a steady stream of new arrivals, who have some problem or other with their YouView box, where we can either explain it's generic, or a known issue slated to be fixed, or something they can perhaps do something about for themselves, under guidance from us, or from YouView support staff.

    Recently, the steady stream of largely tractable problem postings has turned into a deluge of complaints from YouView users who have been updated to NextGen unbidden, find they have lost CurrentGen features that they took for granted, and all for the sake of a new UI, with more than a few shortcomings as a UI.

    So a three-pronged trident of complaint that we can do nothing to help you with; but which you hope YouView will take on board and address.

    And please do not assume that the regulars here are fiercely protective of YouView, old or new; while many responses, on learning of this rollout were more level-headed that my own "Aarghh no - please don't, it's not remotely ready, quick, find me a parapet I can duck behind!" the issues it has raised, for us as well as you, are well understood by all the sensible regulars here.
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,952 ✭✭✭
    edited 12 March 2017, 3:03AM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    I'm sure there was also mention of putting our forum tin hats on, with the expected deluge. And what happened? Exactly what we said would...
    But by far in excess of what we expected. I'm talking about the comments there, not the numbers, which have been fewer than expected (for me, anyway).

    "My personal feeling, for what's it's worth, is that the new UI should not have been released generally until all, or almost all, of the existing functionality in the old version had been added back, and most of the major UI failings, such as in the area of Series handling, had been corrected."
    AMEN
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,358 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 9:34PM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    Wait until the BT PVR users get hit by this update, unless BT are sensitive enough to the negative feedback from their zapper users to hold off, however reluctantly.

    If not, the ordure will really hit the turbulence generator :-(
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
  • zulu17zulu17 Member, Super User Posts: 1,037 ✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 9:41PM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    I've not actually read much feedback from the zapper users on the forums.
  • jimbjimb Member, Super User Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 9:56PM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    Stating the obvious, but the BT zapper users won't be dealing with series recordings problems.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,952 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 9:52PM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    Roy-
    Whoa there tiger!
    44s generally been well received, with the majority giving it a thumbs up. But then it would, wouldn't it? (think about it ;))
    And T1000 users are raving about it breathing new life into their old boxes (improvements on speed, stability and reliability).
    I mean what other platform provider would have the consideration to update five year old kit? Answer - none. YouView are to be commended for that.
    But no such praise can be heaped on 45 or 46, sadly. Which falls badly short...
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,952 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 9:56PM

    To Phil from YouView,

    Thanks very much for your response. It is good to know that YouView are reading the customer feedback and intend to take it on board.

    It is not so good that we cannot reverse this unwanted software change, which is clearly what everyone wants. The most worrying part of your response, however, is the following:

    "We believe the visual changes made in the new update to areas of the UI will make it easier to use for viewers going forward...."

    You seem to be saying that the chorus of customer dissatisfaction is just wrong, and that the handful of people who work in your office have decided that the UI is now easier to use. With respect this is simply delusional - it reminds me of the Trump administration's "alternative facts". Please do not stick your head in the sand over this - listen to your customer base here, acknowledge that the UI has got worse, and use the next update to restore the features that made people like YouView the first place. The history of technology platforms tells us that it will not survive for long if you do not listen to your customers.

    jimb>
    "Stating the obvious, but the BT zapper users won't be dealing with series recordings problems."
    Agree. And its sometimes needed to state the obvious. :)
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,358 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 10:21PM

    image I've just been readying an old Humax HDR Fox T2 with custom firmware against the time when, inevitably, the dreaded 'upgrade' happens to us, and I noticed that this is one of the options for listings, you can choose lists, icons, or both! What a sensible option. Bearing in mind that this is cobbled together by a small bunch of amateurs in their spare time, surely Youview could come up with similar choices? You can also have any background image or colour you want, or the TV playing, or even a slideshow of your own photos if that's what floats your boat. Brilliant stuff!
    (Not my photo by the way, camera battery flat).
     
    image

    Interesting to note what it's doing as well - copying a video to a flash drive :~)
    This is also a feature of the official firmware.

    SRB - that's a stark binary choice, and the world is more complex than that. Can you not think of any cases in your past testing experience where a third thing happened?
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
  • Michael LoweMichael Lowe Member Posts: 2
    edited 18 March 2017, 4:13PM
    Since my Humax DTR-T2000 box auto-updated to 27.46.0 it has begun to power up randomly in "Maintenance Mode" without being activated by the remote or box. This is the case irrespective of which power saving mode is selected. Basically , the unit is off in standby mode at night and has powered up overnight into maintenance mode in the morning. I have to select "reset software" to reset the box and turn it off again. This is a daily occurrence and is most annoying and needs to be addressed by Humax.
         
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,952 ✭✭✭
    edited 12 March 2017, 12:21AM

    image I've just been readying an old Humax HDR Fox T2 with custom firmware against the time when, inevitably, the dreaded 'upgrade' happens to us, and I noticed that this is one of the options for listings, you can choose lists, icons, or both! What a sensible option. Bearing in mind that this is cobbled together by a small bunch of amateurs in their spare time, surely Youview could come up with similar choices? You can also have any background image or colour you want, or the TV playing, or even a slideshow of your own photos if that's what floats your boat. Brilliant stuff!
    (Not my photo by the way, camera battery flat).
     
    image

    Interesting to note what it's doing as well - copying a video to a flash drive :~)
    This is also a feature of the official firmware.

    Yes and yeah, thats a dam good point. So can you, SRB? 
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
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