Forum feedback on MyTV in Next Gen software

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Comments

  • jimbjimb Member, Super User Posts: 1,352 ✭✭✭
    edited 19 April 2017, 6:15PM
    Phil8 said:

    Hi all,

    Following your valuable feedback on MyTV there are a number of improvements that will be rolled out to your box shortly.

    These include;

    •    Easier navigation with a new layout of 12 equally sized, larger scale tiles
    •    See more of the programme title and details with the new larger tiles
    •    Start at the beginning of a series folder as we now land you on your first recorded episode
    •    And in addition, the main menu will now timeout after 30 seconds so you can get back to watching your favourite shows quicker

    The phased rollout of the updates to MyTV start shortly. We will let you know as soon as possible.

    Thank you again for your feedback.

    Phil

    Sorry, should have said "good responses to this update".
  • Sandy1Sandy1 Member Posts: 44
    edited 20 April 2017, 3:55PM
    Visionman said:

    I'd just like to recommend that if you have a forward thinking attitude, are willing to try new things and are prepared to give up your own time to provide feature testing activities and feedback, becoming a trialist can be a a very rewarding activity.
    Be warned though, the majority of people on the trials forum like the tiles, with a tweak or two here or there, of course. :)

    Hi Visionman.  Are you a a 'trialist'?  I think if you watch lots of TV and have been trialling the upgrade for some time before it was issued, you would become familiar with tiles and grow to like them.
    Having picture tiles make things colourful and stand out.  This is good if it is required to make something prominent.  But the problem is that as every recorded program is a picture, they are all prominent, but do not give full & readily identifiable information about what they are indicating.
    YouView is supposed to be for pleasure so should be easy & intuitive to use.
    If you were in a plant control room, piloting a plane or any other control room, prominent alarms and notices are used to draw your attention to major alarms.  If the MyTV page was used in any of the above types on control functions, it would be rejected immediately as confusing & useless.
    YouView may eventually give the option of a list view, but as they did not immediately admit or understand that a picture with an incomplete text description was useless, shows that they had only one aim & that was to have pictures to represent recorded programs.
  • Sandy1Sandy1 Member Posts: 44
    edited 6 August 2017, 12:28AM
    Visionman said:

    I'd just like to recommend that if you have a forward thinking attitude, are willing to try new things and are prepared to give up your own time to provide feature testing activities and feedback, becoming a trialist can be a a very rewarding activity.
    Be warned though, the majority of people on the trials forum like the tiles, with a tweak or two here or there, of course. :)

    Hi Visionman.  Are you a a 'trialist'?  I think if you watch lots of TV and have been trialling the upgrade for some time before it was issued, you would become familiar with tiles and grow to like them.
    Having picture tiles make things colourful and stand out.  This is good if it is required to make something prominent.  But the problem is that as every recorded program is a picture, they are all prominent, but do not give full & readily identifiable information about what they are indicating.
    YouView is supposed to be for pleasure so should be easy & intuitive to use.
    If you were in a plant control room, piloting a plane or any other control room, prominent alarms and notices are used to draw your attention to major alarms.  If the MyTV page was used in any of the above types on control functions, it would be rejected immediately as confusing & useless.
    YouView may eventually give the option of a list view, but as they did not immediately admit or understand that a picture with an incomplete text description was useless, shows that they had only one aim & that was to have pictures to represent recorded programs.
  • niccinicci Member Posts: 5
    edited 24 September 2017, 8:07PM
    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,002 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 April 2017, 9:01AM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    What are you going to do if the OK button also stops working, though?
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • momistmomist Member Posts: 139
    edited 21 April 2017, 9:21AM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    Sadly, the remote controllers supplied with the Humax YV boxes have a limited life, and no changes to the UI can really compensate for that.  You do need to buy a new remote.  I played around with mine for a while, opening it up and cleaning the contacts etc.  I even tried the aluminium foil trick.  All to no avail in the end, as it just continued to fail more.  The replacement from a third party is not as convenient a layout, but seems more reliable so far and has lasted now at least as long as the original.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 April 2017, 9:29AM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    The proper humax remote is not exactly expensive. You can get them from the Humax direct website.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 April 2017, 9:35AM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    Personally if I needed a new remote I would strongly consider investing a little more to get a universal remote. That would allow you to
    • control all/several devices from the one remote
    • have actions to turn on/off and configure multiple items in one press when starting/stopping viewing
    • have a button programmed to do the action to go straight to the recordings list in one press!
    • if you change your equipment you still keep the same remote so as you change TVs, AV receivers, PVRs, bluray players, games consoles etc the remote use largely stays the same and just controls the different devices
    Personally I am using a harmony 650 remote (having used various models over the years) and it makes for a much smoother experience, other universal remote models and brand of course exist too :)
  • Chris A.Chris A. Member Posts: 75
    edited 21 April 2017, 2:26PM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    EIGHTY QUID!!! Does it make the tea as well?
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 April 2017, 9:54AM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    You can get it for about £50 from well known suppliers, admittedly not that cheap but for me well worth it to be able to control all the devices, and the bonus of a single button to go straight to the MyTV recordings list :)

    As for kettles, well harmony remotes can control many devices and even learn remote codes directly, sadly my kettle is not such a device ;-)
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 21 April 2017, 9:55AM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    Not sure if this is the one Keith is referring to, but £50 seems the price here (unless you have a problem with Amazon's tax returns....)

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-Harmony-650-Remote-Control/dp/B00IRUS6K6
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 April 2017, 10:45AM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    My harmony elite does turn on the plug my kettle is attached to, so close to making the tea ;-)
  • WayneWayne Member Posts: 82
    edited 21 April 2017, 10:30AM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    It's a great remote. Was a bonus when they upped the device limit to 8 a couple of years back!
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 April 2017, 11:13AM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    Judging by the in-built screen it is only for those who like tiles though, not lists. ;)
  • momistmomist Member Posts: 139
    edited 21 April 2017, 11:00AM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    @Daniel, I don't like the idea of buying a new remote every two years or so - they should last longer than that, even if they cost more (which they don't unless you buy the all-singing all-dancing making-tea).
  • StephenStephen Member Posts: 758 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 21 April 2017, 2:24PM
    nicci said:

    PLEASE Bring back the 'record' option under the info screen of programmes. I can now only record using the mobile app, as the 'record' button on my remote control doesn't work (I have one of the 1st Gen BT Youview boxes) 

    Nicci - sorry to hear your remote is having problems - the record action is very much coming back.
    But in the meantime if you don't want to invest in a universal remote with biscuit holder and hot drinks dispenser, then plugging in a USB keyboard (wired, or a non-bluetooth wireless one) is a potentially zero-cost (if a little bit bulky) alternative - key mappings etc. (the "multimedia" keymap is probably the best for a standard keyboard) are here:
    https://support.youview.com/youview-box/accessibility/use-a-keyboard-as-a-remote
  • geoffccgeoffcc Member Posts: 25
    edited 30 April 2017, 4:09PM
    The tiles are literally a waste of space. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but not when it is not particularly relevant. The matrix of tiles approach makes it hard to find things easily. The  change YouView seem to suggest they will be rolling out is just to have bigger, more space wasting tiles.  A vertical list approach with tiles may work, if tiles have to be used.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 May 2017, 10:08AM
    Having had the MyTV layout update for a few days now I thought I would look at my recordings and see how the bigger tiles have benefited me in practice. In the original MyTV layout each tile could show about 15 characters of a programme title whereas the revised layout supports about 20. For completeness (and reference further down) I shall note that the old gen listings allowed for about 35 characters to be shown of the title.

    At the moment I have 25 distinct tiles (either individual programmes or series) and across those 25 tiles only 6 have truncated titles now, so approximately 25% of titles suffering some truncation. The 20 characters of text is arguably adequate for me to understand what each one is even though some are truncated.

    One thing that is (slightly) annoying (which is not strictly a YouVIew issue but is one that could easily coded to workaround with a one line filter in the code to strip it) is the 'New: ' prefix that some/many programmes have in the title data. That is consuming 5 precious characters, which at about 25% of the title space is arguably too wasteful. Across my 25 tiles 14 of then have the title prefix 'New: '! This is of no value to me and I would prefer it to be stripped off/removed. Doing this though (apart from making me feel happier) would only actually add 2 more tiles to the total of tiles that then fit on the whole title (and as it happens all the other 'news' are on ones that fit already).

    So in practical terms, on my limited set of current tiles, the change is largely sufficient to improve my ability to see the majority of titles sufficiently.

    This did though make me wonder if one looked at a wider set of titles what one might see. A quick scrape of some web listings, passed through some command line tools and out popped a list of programme title lengths and a couple of plots:

    image
    image
    A key point to note is that the listings I used to scrape from do not include the wasteful 'New: ' prefix!

    From the above one could note:
    • A 35 character limit means almost all titles are fully shown; without any 'New: ' prefixes it covers about 95% of titles and even if everything has a 5 character prefix then it still copes with about 90% of titles in full
    • When one drops down to 20 characters then these figures fall to 72% and 55%; so if you have a lot of 'New: ' prefixes you are could be rapidly descending towards half the tiles having truncated titles
    • When one drops to 15 characters (as it was before the recent update) then it falls to 55% and 23%
    From that one might conclude that the 15 character limit was thus very prone to potential truncation and hence the need for ones mind to extrapolate to fill in the gap. This change has the potential to significantly improve things such that many more titles should be displayed in full, and for those that are not one has a bit more data for the mind to work with to subconsciously extend and complete the title. Overall though the old gen 35 character limit is the most complete and well tailored to show all such titles (although arguably in a listing as in old gen many lines have lots of space and one cannot perhaps help but suggest that space be better used such as by adding a column for duration:) ). 

    Given the new tiles are larger they are thus actually taller and one could argue this extra vertical space lends itself to coding for the ability to wrap a title onto two lines if it exceeds 20 character. Such a line wrap, even allowing for wrapping at word breaks would deliver space broadly equivalent to the old gen 35 character limit. One could even make the case that the vertical space on the tiles could lend itself to several other short facts being shown directly (without any scrolling in to view, e.g. number of (unwatched/total) episodes, average duration) whilst still allowing the images to be seen for those that deduce things from pictures or just like the more colourful presentation.

    The above is of course something I have just very quickly hacked together and YouView should have better easier access to the data in order to be able to run a similar analysis across many weeks worth of programmes, perhaps even weighting it based on what people actually record (assuming the box may be reporting that back) and hence the results could shift somewhat. Nevertheless the above is hopefully still adequately accurate and illustrative :)
  • SpargoSpargo Member Posts: 31
    edited 17 July 2017, 5:49PM
    Keith, is it not possible to manually edit the title name in Next Gen then, so you could get rid of the 'NEW:'? That would be useful. I never tried it in the version before tiles because I didn't need to. I had a quick look in 27.50.0 but I couldn't see anything obvious.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,170 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 April 2017, 10:05PM
    Keith1 said:

    Having had the MyTV layout update for a few days now I thought I would look at my recordings and see how the bigger tiles have benefited me in practice. In the original MyTV layout each tile could show about 15 characters of a programme title whereas the revised layout supports about 20. For completeness (and reference further down) I shall note that the old gen listings allowed for about 35 characters to be shown of the title.

    At the moment I have 25 distinct tiles (either individual programmes or series) and across those 25 tiles only 6 have truncated titles now, so approximately 25% of titles suffering some truncation. The 20 characters of text is arguably adequate for me to understand what each one is even though some are truncated.

    One thing that is (slightly) annoying (which is not strictly a YouVIew issue but is one that could easily coded to workaround with a one line filter in the code to strip it) is the 'New: ' prefix that some/many programmes have in the title data. That is consuming 5 precious characters, which at about 25% of the title space is arguably too wasteful. Across my 25 tiles 14 of then have the title prefix 'New: '! This is of no value to me and I would prefer it to be stripped off/removed. Doing this though (apart from making me feel happier) would only actually add 2 more tiles to the total of tiles that then fit on the whole title (and as it happens all the other 'news' are on ones that fit already).

    So in practical terms, on my limited set of current tiles, the change is largely sufficient to improve my ability to see the majority of titles sufficiently.

    This did though make me wonder if one looked at a wider set of titles what one might see. A quick scrape of some web listings, passed through some command line tools and out popped a list of programme title lengths and a couple of plots:

    image
    image
    A key point to note is that the listings I used to scrape from do not include the wasteful 'New: ' prefix!

    From the above one could note:

    • A 35 character limit means almost all titles are fully shown; without any 'New: ' prefixes it covers about 95% of titles and even if everything has a 5 character prefix then it still copes with about 90% of titles in full
    • When one drops down to 20 characters then these figures fall to 72% and 55%; so if you have a lot of 'New: ' prefixes you are could be rapidly descending towards half the tiles having truncated titles
    • When one drops to 15 characters (as it was before the recent update) then it falls to 55% and 23%
    From that one might conclude that the 15 character limit was thus very prone to potential truncation and hence the need for ones mind to extrapolate to fill in the gap. This change has the potential to significantly improve things such that many more titles should be displayed in full, and for those that are not one has a bit more data for the mind to work with to subconsciously extend and complete the title. Overall though the old gen 35 character limit is the most complete and well tailored to show all such titles (although arguably in a listing as in old gen many lines have lots of space and one cannot perhaps help but suggest that space be better used such as by adding a column for duration:) ). 

    Given the new tiles are larger they are thus actually taller and one could argue this extra vertical space lends itself to coding for the ability to wrap a title onto two lines if it exceeds 20 character. Such a line wrap, even allowing for wrapping at word breaks would deliver space broadly equivalent to the old gen 35 character limit. One could even make the case that the vertical space on the tiles could lend itself to several other short facts being shown directly (without any scrolling in to view, e.g. number of (unwatched/total) episodes, average duration) whilst still allowing the images to be seen for those that deduce things from pictures or just like the more colourful presentation.

    The above is of course something I have just very quickly hacked together and YouView should have better easier access to the data in order to be able to run a similar analysis across many weeks worth of programmes, perhaps even weighting it based on what people actually record (assuming the box may be reporting that back) and hence the results could shift somewhat. Nevertheless the above is hopefully still adequately accurate and illustrative :)
    What you say has weight, as two lines of text is easily codeable and so perhaps may be a good thing.
    However, there are further considerations to take - the date of the content and whether said content is a single piece or a stack. And then can be a further line that is/can be "Watched" above them all.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 April 2017, 8:36PM
    Keith1 said:

    Having had the MyTV layout update for a few days now I thought I would look at my recordings and see how the bigger tiles have benefited me in practice. In the original MyTV layout each tile could show about 15 characters of a programme title whereas the revised layout supports about 20. For completeness (and reference further down) I shall note that the old gen listings allowed for about 35 characters to be shown of the title.

    At the moment I have 25 distinct tiles (either individual programmes or series) and across those 25 tiles only 6 have truncated titles now, so approximately 25% of titles suffering some truncation. The 20 characters of text is arguably adequate for me to understand what each one is even though some are truncated.

    One thing that is (slightly) annoying (which is not strictly a YouVIew issue but is one that could easily coded to workaround with a one line filter in the code to strip it) is the 'New: ' prefix that some/many programmes have in the title data. That is consuming 5 precious characters, which at about 25% of the title space is arguably too wasteful. Across my 25 tiles 14 of then have the title prefix 'New: '! This is of no value to me and I would prefer it to be stripped off/removed. Doing this though (apart from making me feel happier) would only actually add 2 more tiles to the total of tiles that then fit on the whole title (and as it happens all the other 'news' are on ones that fit already).

    So in practical terms, on my limited set of current tiles, the change is largely sufficient to improve my ability to see the majority of titles sufficiently.

    This did though make me wonder if one looked at a wider set of titles what one might see. A quick scrape of some web listings, passed through some command line tools and out popped a list of programme title lengths and a couple of plots:

    image
    image
    A key point to note is that the listings I used to scrape from do not include the wasteful 'New: ' prefix!

    From the above one could note:

    • A 35 character limit means almost all titles are fully shown; without any 'New: ' prefixes it covers about 95% of titles and even if everything has a 5 character prefix then it still copes with about 90% of titles in full
    • When one drops down to 20 characters then these figures fall to 72% and 55%; so if you have a lot of 'New: ' prefixes you are could be rapidly descending towards half the tiles having truncated titles
    • When one drops to 15 characters (as it was before the recent update) then it falls to 55% and 23%
    From that one might conclude that the 15 character limit was thus very prone to potential truncation and hence the need for ones mind to extrapolate to fill in the gap. This change has the potential to significantly improve things such that many more titles should be displayed in full, and for those that are not one has a bit more data for the mind to work with to subconsciously extend and complete the title. Overall though the old gen 35 character limit is the most complete and well tailored to show all such titles (although arguably in a listing as in old gen many lines have lots of space and one cannot perhaps help but suggest that space be better used such as by adding a column for duration:) ). 

    Given the new tiles are larger they are thus actually taller and one could argue this extra vertical space lends itself to coding for the ability to wrap a title onto two lines if it exceeds 20 character. Such a line wrap, even allowing for wrapping at word breaks would deliver space broadly equivalent to the old gen 35 character limit. One could even make the case that the vertical space on the tiles could lend itself to several other short facts being shown directly (without any scrolling in to view, e.g. number of (unwatched/total) episodes, average duration) whilst still allowing the images to be seen for those that deduce things from pictures or just like the more colourful presentation.

    The above is of course something I have just very quickly hacked together and YouView should have better easier access to the data in order to be able to run a similar analysis across many weeks worth of programmes, perhaps even weighting it based on what people actually record (assuming the box may be reporting that back) and hence the results could shift somewhat. Nevertheless the above is hopefully still adequately accurate and illustrative :)
    And you think this is going to stop broadcasters using the now common "New" prefix?
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 April 2017, 8:40PM
    Keith1 said:

    Having had the MyTV layout update for a few days now I thought I would look at my recordings and see how the bigger tiles have benefited me in practice. In the original MyTV layout each tile could show about 15 characters of a programme title whereas the revised layout supports about 20. For completeness (and reference further down) I shall note that the old gen listings allowed for about 35 characters to be shown of the title.

    At the moment I have 25 distinct tiles (either individual programmes or series) and across those 25 tiles only 6 have truncated titles now, so approximately 25% of titles suffering some truncation. The 20 characters of text is arguably adequate for me to understand what each one is even though some are truncated.

    One thing that is (slightly) annoying (which is not strictly a YouVIew issue but is one that could easily coded to workaround with a one line filter in the code to strip it) is the 'New: ' prefix that some/many programmes have in the title data. That is consuming 5 precious characters, which at about 25% of the title space is arguably too wasteful. Across my 25 tiles 14 of then have the title prefix 'New: '! This is of no value to me and I would prefer it to be stripped off/removed. Doing this though (apart from making me feel happier) would only actually add 2 more tiles to the total of tiles that then fit on the whole title (and as it happens all the other 'news' are on ones that fit already).

    So in practical terms, on my limited set of current tiles, the change is largely sufficient to improve my ability to see the majority of titles sufficiently.

    This did though make me wonder if one looked at a wider set of titles what one might see. A quick scrape of some web listings, passed through some command line tools and out popped a list of programme title lengths and a couple of plots:

    image
    image
    A key point to note is that the listings I used to scrape from do not include the wasteful 'New: ' prefix!

    From the above one could note:

    • A 35 character limit means almost all titles are fully shown; without any 'New: ' prefixes it covers about 95% of titles and even if everything has a 5 character prefix then it still copes with about 90% of titles in full
    • When one drops down to 20 characters then these figures fall to 72% and 55%; so if you have a lot of 'New: ' prefixes you are could be rapidly descending towards half the tiles having truncated titles
    • When one drops to 15 characters (as it was before the recent update) then it falls to 55% and 23%
    From that one might conclude that the 15 character limit was thus very prone to potential truncation and hence the need for ones mind to extrapolate to fill in the gap. This change has the potential to significantly improve things such that many more titles should be displayed in full, and for those that are not one has a bit more data for the mind to work with to subconsciously extend and complete the title. Overall though the old gen 35 character limit is the most complete and well tailored to show all such titles (although arguably in a listing as in old gen many lines have lots of space and one cannot perhaps help but suggest that space be better used such as by adding a column for duration:) ). 

    Given the new tiles are larger they are thus actually taller and one could argue this extra vertical space lends itself to coding for the ability to wrap a title onto two lines if it exceeds 20 character. Such a line wrap, even allowing for wrapping at word breaks would deliver space broadly equivalent to the old gen 35 character limit. One could even make the case that the vertical space on the tiles could lend itself to several other short facts being shown directly (without any scrolling in to view, e.g. number of (unwatched/total) episodes, average duration) whilst still allowing the images to be seen for those that deduce things from pictures or just like the more colourful presentation.

    The above is of course something I have just very quickly hacked together and YouView should have better easier access to the data in order to be able to run a similar analysis across many weeks worth of programmes, perhaps even weighting it based on what people actually record (assuming the box may be reporting that back) and hence the results could shift somewhat. Nevertheless the above is hopefully still adequately accurate and illustrative :)
    Indeed, I doubt broadcasters could be persuaded to drop the use of 'New: ' in their master data, after all it is hard enough to convince them all to properly implement AR and there are reasons why that would be in their interest as well as the viewers ;-)

    YouView coding to strip it out though would be perfectly doable with one more line of code :)
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 April 2017, 8:43PM
    Spargo said:

    Keith, is it not possible to manually edit the title name in Next Gen then, so you could get rid of the 'NEW:'? That would be useful. I never tried it in the version before tiles because I didn't need to. I had a quick look in 27.50.0 but I couldn't see anything obvious.

    Hi Spargo  - title editing is not possible on next gen, I don't even recall it from old gen but perhaps it was there but not something one would really have a need to use (I do recall it from my much older Humax 9300T but never really used it there either). Even if YouView did implement manual title editing, as much as I do not like the wasteful 'New: ', I would not wish to waste the time to manually remove it and would just use the time to get on and watch and then delete the item :)
  • SpargoSpargo Member Posts: 31
    edited 28 April 2017, 9:08PM
    Spargo said:

    Keith, is it not possible to manually edit the title name in Next Gen then, so you could get rid of the 'NEW:'? That would be useful. I never tried it in the version before tiles because I didn't need to. I had a quick look in 27.50.0 but I couldn't see anything obvious.

    Keith, I agree with you. Where I use title editing is on a Panasonic PVR which also has a DVD player/recorder. Series always have the same title and the only means of distinguishing between the separate episodes is in the descriptions where it says 1/3, 2/3 etc. I can edit the title name before it goes onto the DVD so I add 1/3, 2/3 to the Title Name.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 April 2017, 9:43PM
    Keith1 said:

    Having had the MyTV layout update for a few days now I thought I would look at my recordings and see how the bigger tiles have benefited me in practice. In the original MyTV layout each tile could show about 15 characters of a programme title whereas the revised layout supports about 20. For completeness (and reference further down) I shall note that the old gen listings allowed for about 35 characters to be shown of the title.

    At the moment I have 25 distinct tiles (either individual programmes or series) and across those 25 tiles only 6 have truncated titles now, so approximately 25% of titles suffering some truncation. The 20 characters of text is arguably adequate for me to understand what each one is even though some are truncated.

    One thing that is (slightly) annoying (which is not strictly a YouVIew issue but is one that could easily coded to workaround with a one line filter in the code to strip it) is the 'New: ' prefix that some/many programmes have in the title data. That is consuming 5 precious characters, which at about 25% of the title space is arguably too wasteful. Across my 25 tiles 14 of then have the title prefix 'New: '! This is of no value to me and I would prefer it to be stripped off/removed. Doing this though (apart from making me feel happier) would only actually add 2 more tiles to the total of tiles that then fit on the whole title (and as it happens all the other 'news' are on ones that fit already).

    So in practical terms, on my limited set of current tiles, the change is largely sufficient to improve my ability to see the majority of titles sufficiently.

    This did though make me wonder if one looked at a wider set of titles what one might see. A quick scrape of some web listings, passed through some command line tools and out popped a list of programme title lengths and a couple of plots:

    image
    image
    A key point to note is that the listings I used to scrape from do not include the wasteful 'New: ' prefix!

    From the above one could note:

    • A 35 character limit means almost all titles are fully shown; without any 'New: ' prefixes it covers about 95% of titles and even if everything has a 5 character prefix then it still copes with about 90% of titles in full
    • When one drops down to 20 characters then these figures fall to 72% and 55%; so if you have a lot of 'New: ' prefixes you are could be rapidly descending towards half the tiles having truncated titles
    • When one drops to 15 characters (as it was before the recent update) then it falls to 55% and 23%
    From that one might conclude that the 15 character limit was thus very prone to potential truncation and hence the need for ones mind to extrapolate to fill in the gap. This change has the potential to significantly improve things such that many more titles should be displayed in full, and for those that are not one has a bit more data for the mind to work with to subconsciously extend and complete the title. Overall though the old gen 35 character limit is the most complete and well tailored to show all such titles (although arguably in a listing as in old gen many lines have lots of space and one cannot perhaps help but suggest that space be better used such as by adding a column for duration:) ). 

    Given the new tiles are larger they are thus actually taller and one could argue this extra vertical space lends itself to coding for the ability to wrap a title onto two lines if it exceeds 20 character. Such a line wrap, even allowing for wrapping at word breaks would deliver space broadly equivalent to the old gen 35 character limit. One could even make the case that the vertical space on the tiles could lend itself to several other short facts being shown directly (without any scrolling in to view, e.g. number of (unwatched/total) episodes, average duration) whilst still allowing the images to be seen for those that deduce things from pictures or just like the more colourful presentation.

    The above is of course something I have just very quickly hacked together and YouView should have better easier access to the data in order to be able to run a similar analysis across many weeks worth of programmes, perhaps even weighting it based on what people actually record (assuming the box may be reporting that back) and hence the results could shift somewhat. Nevertheless the above is hopefully still adequately accurate and illustrative :)
    Ah, the dream of neutrality. Whither the platform without the broadcasters though?
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 29 April 2017, 9:31AM
    Spargo said:

    Keith, is it not possible to manually edit the title name in Next Gen then, so you could get rid of the 'NEW:'? That would be useful. I never tried it in the version before tiles because I didn't need to. I had a quick look in 27.50.0 but I couldn't see anything obvious.

    As usual, Keith, an interesting and comprehensive​ post. Unlike you, we do value the 'new' information. So many series are repeated that we find it useful to have an indication when the programme is being broadcast for the first time. Unfortunately, it is not consistent - new programmes not listed as new sometimes. Back to the fact that you can please some of the people some of the time... etc.
    Providing optional settings would resolve the issue but if options were provided in every area the UI would become unwieldy.
    However, I would suggest that in key areas, e.g. tiles or lists, optional settings are essential. Other 'would be nice to haves' I can live without...
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 April 2017, 9:37AM
    Spargo said:

    Keith, is it not possible to manually edit the title name in Next Gen then, so you could get rid of the 'NEW:'? That would be useful. I never tried it in the version before tiles because I didn't need to. I had a quick look in 27.50.0 but I couldn't see anything obvious.

    Thanks churchwarden - I can see the value in such a prefix/tag/flag where one uses it to choose what to watch/record. I see less value in it in the labels on the recordings I have made since to me they are things I have decided to watch so are all new to me (or something I want to renew my acquittance with on the rare occasion I watch something again). 

    I don't find a PVR EPG a great tool for browsing listings and choosing what to watch so for me it is just the tool I use once I've decided what to record to actually set the recording. I can see others will use it for consideration so new tags there have more value :)

    All in all 'New: ' is a minor detail and given there are limits to what YouView appear to work on I would put it low down any priority list I would wish them to consider (whereas if I were working on such a project myself I might just spend 30 minutes exploring it and then commit a one line change for a trial/test branch version and see what feedback it produces ;-) ).
  • Liz210Liz210 Member Posts: 10
    edited 8 May 2017, 9:45PM

    That, is very favourable, thank you for the update. You see, all people want, is comms! Cheers

    I don't see why there has to be tiles as it is just a bit of a blur when you look at it. Why can't the recordings just be shown in a list as before as it makes it much easier to see what you have. It is too "busy" - we don't need pictures to see what we have recorded.

    Also there is no option to choose normal or HD recording unless you actually scroll down to the HD channels and record from there.

    The scrolling up and down the tiles is not user friendly in my view, please put everything back as it was before!!!!  This is my main complaint but I am sure I will remember more and will add them here then

  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 April 2017, 9:43AM

    That, is very favourable, thank you for the update. You see, all people want, is comms! Cheers

    Hi Elizabeth - there has certainly been (plenty of negative and some positive) feedback from numerous people via this forum. If you are looking for a list of the issues to jog your thinking you could see my first impressions post, and if you are looking for various other topics where people have been discussing the issues see my topic list here :)
  • Liz210Liz210 Member Posts: 10
    edited 29 April 2017, 9:45AM

    That, is very favourable, thank you for the update. You see, all people want, is comms! Cheers

    Thank you Keith!
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