[Discussion] Humax retail software update 27.50.0

13468921

Comments

  • stokesd3stokesd3 Member Posts: 137
    edited 22 April 2017, 12:44PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    But you're repeating yourself it's making the thread stressful. Yes we have unknowingly become a team of testers ourselves as it was released too early but let's wait for the updates to roll through eh, we'll get there :-)
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,095 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 1:38PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    You are not a team of testers; the software has already been tested and it works pretty much perfectly.

    Within its limitations, which are admittedly many.

    But it is important to make this distinction, if only to stop you all bad-mouthing the real testers, who had to work within those same limitations and, you may be assured, did not remain silent about that.
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 22 April 2017, 3:01PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    It doesn't seem very well tested. Do they need new ones?
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 1:53PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    You are not really in a position to say that without knowing what the beta versions were like, which is another way of saying what Roy posted earlier.
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 22 April 2017, 3:02PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    Surely I am entitled to my opinion on this public forum. If yours is different to mine then I am still entitled to my own.
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 24 April 2017, 10:40AM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    This forum seems to have censors who have been self selected.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 April 2017, 10:40AM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    Opinions are fine, we all have them, perhaps you could expand on yours? Knowledge tends to make for better informed opinion. 
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 24 April 2017, 10:40AM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    Think about it.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 April 2017, 10:41AM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    I have, I am amazed how anyone let alone a member of one day's standing could form such a view. Perhaps that gives us an insight into the thought processes that goes into all your opinions generally?
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 24 April 2017, 10:41AM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    O dear
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 April 2017, 10:41AM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    Yes dear?
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 2:17PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    O dear?? @matthew There is no way you can know how good or bad a forum is when you only have ten posts here
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 2:21PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    The previous version of the GetSat forum system provided ordinary users access to an overall changelog and also left a visible footprint for any deleted posts. Alas both those features are not in the current system which can lead to a lack of transparency. GetSat until relatively recently did not support community managers/moderators editing anything but their own posts. Thus the changelog, footprints of deletes, and lack of ability for posts to be retrospectively changed (once other actions such as replies or likes have occurred) gave a high degree of confidence one could understand what minimal changes may have occurred.

    A post deletion will result in the original poster being notified but the rest of us will not clearly know such action has occurred, an edit of text within a post probably results in no notification to the original poster. All in all moderation and management of a community (and in particular one run on the GetSat platform) can be a tightrope act, you need to be brave and confident enough to get out and stay out on the wire but a wrong step or slip can lead to the occasional misinterpreted or painful moment ;-)
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 24 April 2017, 10:41AM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    That's at least 4 of the trials team identified
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 2:53PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    Keith, that's very interesting, but I am afraid too cryptic for me in the context of this particular thread and last few posts in particular? #confused
  • grassmarketgrassmarket Member Posts: 11
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 3:15PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    Forget about the structure of the forums for the moment, most people have. That does not mean you should belittle those who have and will continue to contribute more than you.

    Leaving that aside, have you actually understood what Roy said? Yes, they consciously withdrew a  platform because it had to be fundamentally re-written for modern technology from the ground up. They did say at the outset that certain features would be temporarily lost, but would be reinstated. And this is why they cannot simply "withdraw" NextGen. Call it what you like in the meantime, but positive and constructive criticism is likely to yield a better response than hysteria.
  • grassmarketgrassmarket Member Posts: 11
    edited 22 April 2017, 3:23PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    I agree - things seem to be disappearing, at least. My (mis-placed) comment that used to be in this thread disappeared before I'd even reposted it below as a separate remark.
    An earlier comment to Roy was also truncated.
    Keith - Is it because I did a copy/paste? I've not been notified of any 'post deletion' activity.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 3:29PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    @grassmarket - I am even more confused now, your comment is still in place above, I was puzzled why you effectively reposted as a reply?? Which admittedly affected slightly the tone of my response, sorry!
  • grassmarketgrassmarket Member Posts: 11
    edited 22 April 2017, 3:34PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    YouView have just warned me that I've reached 250 points, so it's not safe to reply to any of this - I'm dangerously close to becoming a forum junkie.
    But having skimmed through some of your recent 'banter' with Matthew - don't think I need to.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 3:38PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    Ah, you prefer monologue rather than dialogue, you're not the only one. Goodbye.
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 22 April 2017, 3:40PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    Congratulations and here was I thinking that the high point earners were the trialists and censors
  • Tim CTim C Member, Super User Posts: 506 ✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 11:15PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    I think it's worth pointing out 2 things:-

    1. The testers very likely did a pretty good job testing NextGen prior to it's release as the functionality that is there does seem to work quite acceptably. So shall we say 9/10 for the testers.

    2. The testers are in no way responsible for the lack of certain functionality which was clearly a (ill-)considered MANAGEMENT decision.

    The fact that for many the Youview experience has been ruined is down to YouView management alone.

    So can we please leave the testers/trialists alone.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 11:15PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    Personally I have always thought of "points" on a forum as similar to medals for members of the Royal Family, earned for not much more than being there. So don't get hung up about that.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 4:36PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    The remarks about censors above could be interpreted to mean so many things. One interpretation is that it refers to the fact some posts have been forked and/or deleted of late or perhaps even that some people think post content is being edited by a subset of people. Hence my comment was to clarify who has the power to do what on here and hence observe that only the YouView community managers would be taking such actions (and one would expect only sparingly). Censor could equally perhaps be interpreted to mean that long standing or more vocal members are simply pushing their points to the level that it is suppressing other views. Broadly I would say a whole spectrum of views of the next gen system has been captured across the many threads here, and regardless of my personal view or views of that feedback it is ultimately only YouView who can weigh it up (along with any other info they wish to consider) and take action (or not as the case may be).
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 25 April 2017, 9:44PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    Cheers Keith, I always thought no post was summarily removed without notice. It never occurred to me that a different view would be regarded as censorship, that may be it, the way people try to make a point, eh? ;)
  • stokesd3stokesd3 Member Posts: 137
    edited 22 April 2017, 5:35PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    Yes to clarify, my comment wasn't aimed at the testers themselves, but more at YV's premature release, disregarding the outstanding concerns already raised.
  • stokesd3stokesd3 Member Posts: 137
    edited 22 April 2017, 5:37PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    Roy,

    My comment wasn't aimed at the testers, more YV for not addressing outstanding feedback before release.
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 23 April 2017, 8:20PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    Hi Grassmarket.  And please keep your views coming. A bit of history, much like Roy's description of the re-write, is probably necessary here to help you understand the different background of posters on this forum.

    Some of us have been here since year dot - indeed since before the YouView kit was available to the public.  Some, like myself, had had PVRs for many years, and immediately started to regale the YouView team with requests for improvements - some very minor (e.g. landing on the earliest rather than latest recording) and some more involved (re-ordering of channels in the guide - favourite's list etc.).

    As time progressed, Keith, one of the forum members did a sterling job of listing the requests.  Over a fairly short period, the list grew to over 100 items.  Time passed and few, if any of these requests were implemented - or in some cases, even acknowledged.

    The reason for this,apparently, was that due to the software used, changes were fraught, with knock-on negative effects in other areas of the system. Indeed, there was one particularly disruptive issue which existed for months before the system stabilised back to a fully working system.

    Over time, in order not to damage our health, drop dead of heart attacks, fall about foaming at the mouth etc. us older members came to develop a more fatalistic and philosophical mood, being grateful for any crumbs of improvement the team threw our way. One of these was 'folders' although they ignored the request to land on the earliest recording in the folder.

    We also consoled ourselves with the view that the base functionality of YouView was excellent, the guide gave easy access to 'on demand' and in general we could do what we wanted, albeit with far too many key-strokes in some case.

    So that gives you a 'profile' of some of us who've been here for ages.

    With the advent of Nextgen, the forum has seen a whole new group of members who, not unreasonably, IMHO, are much less 'worn down' by the system, much less accepting of the failings of the design, and much more vocal in their criticism.

    This, in some ways, is a welcome development.  This new group are basically repeating what the rest of us have been saying for 5 years with little or no success.

    My own view is that the rewrite, if it makes implementing changes easier, will potentially be a good thing. There are signs that the design team are starting to pay attention to what we are saying, and implementing much-needed improvements in a reasonable time-frame. All this is good.

    Hopefully we can all move things forward now to try to get the system that YouView SHOULD be, with a UI that is fit for purpose.

    We all need to pull in the same direction, whilst being realistic about the things that need to change.  In this light, understanding and forbearance between the two groups - the old-timers and the new arrivals - is the best way to achieve this. We all want the same thing in the end - and pulling together to persuade YouView of a good forward direction is going to be more likely to succeed than wasting our efforts and energy sniping at each other.

    This probably means that we all try to reign in our ire, whilst at the same time factually describing exactly what we would like to change.  If we do that, I think we will find that we are all singing out of the same hymn book (sorry....).
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 22 April 2017, 5:52PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    TLDR (to save anybody else facetiously posting it)
Sign In or Register to comment.