[Discussion] Humax retail software update 27.50.0

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Comments

  • SomersetBobSomersetBob Member Posts: 209 ✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 8:39PM
    Visionman said:

    Sydney>
    "Better, but still missing the features that we had before and were coming 'soon'."

    A comment you have often repeated...
    As announced by YouView here - 
    "MyTV is a top priority. Rest assured that your views and opinions shared here have been fed into the planning of further developments we are making with MyTV to bring improvements and new functionality."
    https://community.youview.com/youview/topics/forum-feedback-on-mytv-in-next-gen-software

    Thanks to feedback both on here and elsewhere, addressing My TV became the top priority for them, not the 'Soon'. And what an amazing difference its made.
    Still, can't please everyone, eh? :)

    I would be quite happy if BT & TT chose another platform :-)
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 9:00PM
    Visionman said:

    Sydney>
    "Better, but still missing the features that we had before and were coming 'soon'."

    A comment you have often repeated...
    As announced by YouView here - 
    "MyTV is a top priority. Rest assured that your views and opinions shared here have been fed into the planning of further developments we are making with MyTV to bring improvements and new functionality."
    https://community.youview.com/youview/topics/forum-feedback-on-mytv-in-next-gen-software

    Thanks to feedback both on here and elsewhere, addressing My TV became the top priority for them, not the 'Soon'. And what an amazing difference its made.
    Still, can't please everyone, eh? :)

    That's a selfish thing to say really. A majority of the two and a half million boxes are from TalkTalk or bt. Customers of these services are as much entitled to use the services as retail customers. Without the ip partners youviews userbase would be majorly depleted and youview would probably struggle. Most people who wants a Freeview recorder will be looking for the freeview logo which will be one major reason there is not more retail boxes sold.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,116 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 9:17PM
    Visionman said:

    Sydney>
    "Better, but still missing the features that we had before and were coming 'soon'."

    A comment you have often repeated...
    As announced by YouView here - 
    "MyTV is a top priority. Rest assured that your views and opinions shared here have been fed into the planning of further developments we are making with MyTV to bring improvements and new functionality."
    https://community.youview.com/youview/topics/forum-feedback-on-mytv-in-next-gen-software

    Thanks to feedback both on here and elsewhere, addressing My TV became the top priority for them, not the 'Soon'. And what an amazing difference its made.
    Still, can't please everyone, eh? :)

    Nah, it's because Retail is £150 upwards cash down, and the BT and TT offerings are a few quid a month, with extra goodies thrown in on top :-)
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • Sandy1Sandy1 Member Posts: 44
    edited 23 April 2017, 6:11AM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    I shall make this entry - view this forum for a couple of more days - then forget about YouView for a while.

    I contacted BBC, Humax & joined this forum in an attempt to point out how the upgrade was failing.

    The BBC support (pay for??) YouVIew, but are not interested in the customers negative experiences, following the upgrade.
    I have not heard of any responses about the upgrade from Humax.
    I've seen nothing in this forum from YouView, stating that any part of the upgrade requires changing.

    People on this forum repeatedly state, in great detail, the failings of the upgrade and how they should be fixed.  YouView do not respond to these statements and other members of the forum state how such statements are made by people who do not like change.  These other members also state how the MyTV pictures are great but DO NOT give any reason why the pictures are good - if they did, they might gain more support.

    I have bought two YouView boxes based upon their pre upgrade state.  YouView have now made them very difficult to use and I have NO option to do anything about it.

    There are a few sensible statements, like the one by churchwarden above.

    I emailed YouView several times.  I gave rational accounts of the upgrade failings and how they should be improved, only to have email communication terminated when I called one part of the upgrade stupid.  To me, this showed what little accountability there is within YouView when they can get so upset by being told that part of the upgrade is stupid (even when a rational for that statement is given).
    YouView don't appear to be accountable to anyone - box manufacturers, BBC or more importantly, their customers.

    The very least YouView should do is immediately admit what is wrong with the upgrade and that they WILL fix it.  They only have to read this forum to create a list of the fixes required.
    They must have realised that they were providing an upgrade for millions of boxes when they planned the upgrade so why they allowed the upgrade to take place with so many errors is stupid.
    If YouView management had allowed such an upgrade to take place for paying customers in any commercial enterprise, they would soon be a worthless company.

    I wish YouView good luck in creating a first class User Interface as I want my YouView boxes to be usable again.  Get a press realeas out about how you have failed and stating what you will be correcting - thanks.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 9:17PM
    Visionman said:

    Sydney>
    "Better, but still missing the features that we had before and were coming 'soon'."

    A comment you have often repeated...
    As announced by YouView here - 
    "MyTV is a top priority. Rest assured that your views and opinions shared here have been fed into the planning of further developments we are making with MyTV to bring improvements and new functionality."
    https://community.youview.com/youview/topics/forum-feedback-on-mytv-in-next-gen-software

    Thanks to feedback both on here and elsewhere, addressing My TV became the top priority for them, not the 'Soon'. And what an amazing difference its made.
    Still, can't please everyone, eh? :)

    I agree that's one of the main reasons people pick bt or TalkTalk and to be honest exactly what you are describing was why I picked bt tv that and the sports on offer however over time I ended up adding to the tv and mobile side of things I now pay around 150 a month for my services.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,116 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 9:22PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    That would have been entirely impractical though. About everything that has been raised here will probably have been fed back by testers who, knowing the product was incomplete and could not be completed before launch, one will have said (say) 'Fine, but please bring back Hiding Channels, at least, in this release', and another 'Action Panel, please', and a third 'Fix the back journeys' and a fourth 'improve the tiles' and a fifth 'fix the series handling'.

    Until, collectively, they would have been asking YouView to finish the product. For which there wasn't time. And....

    "There's a hole in my YouView, dear Dev Team, dear Dev Team..."

    So round it would go :-(
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,116 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 9:25PM
    Visionman said:

    Robbo>
    "The icons are all very pretty, I can live with them but prefer the previous simple listing of recordings. What is totally **** is that with internet channels we can no longer start a recording at a specific point. I have a 5 hour recording of British Superbikes, I know what time a certain race is due in the recording, can I jump forward 3 hours like I used to be able to do, not now I can't."

    There are comments like yours littered across the internet with all agreeing, including me.
    Whilst the return of this feature hasn't been confirmed for slotting yet, it has been fed back so YouView know do about it.
    And our common theme? We're all sport watchers and funnily enough, none of they minded the tiles, either.

    Apologies. I thought everyone knew :-(

    If not, that would certainly explain a lot of the bewilderment, then.
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,116 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 9:40PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    Re censorship - as Keith says, only YouView employees can delete posts, and they almost always contact the poster to say why.

    So if a new user feels they have been censored in this way without warning, you should ask YouView, in the person now of Sarah, to explain why, and especially why you weren't notified.

    I suspect though, that what may have happened is that the posting never actually got made; the CANCEL button below really ought to be a safe distance form the SUBMIT one, but it isn't.

    But I am also seeing what looks like new users crying 'Censorship' because a more established user disagreed, or gently suggested a better place to post.

    Neither of which is censorship, of course.

    Oh, and you can't have your cake and eat it; we established members are either a bunch of old tossers who don't understand, can safely be ignored and often actively abused, or we are a powerful cabal with secret powers to do you ill; we can't be both :-)
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 9:37PM
    Visionman said:

    Robbo>
    "The icons are all very pretty, I can live with them but prefer the previous simple listing of recordings. What is totally **** is that with internet channels we can no longer start a recording at a specific point. I have a 5 hour recording of British Superbikes, I know what time a certain race is due in the recording, can I jump forward 3 hours like I used to be able to do, not now I can't."

    There are comments like yours littered across the internet with all agreeing, including me.
    Whilst the return of this feature hasn't been confirmed for slotting yet, it has been fed back so YouView know do about it.
    And our common theme? We're all sport watchers and funnily enough, none of they minded the tiles, either.

    What is HTML 5? (Serious question. I'm interested to know).
  • MrMcgMrMcg Member Posts: 105
    edited 22 April 2017, 9:43PM
    Matthew3 said:

    Is this update available on my BT box?

    Roy,
    "For which there wasn't time"
    This is one point that still niggles in the back of my mind - what deadline were they working to ? Why was it so important to push out this Nextgen now, rather than spend another, say 6 months, bringing the functionality up to what they were replacing?
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 10:02PM
    Visionman said:

    Robbo>
    "The icons are all very pretty, I can live with them but prefer the previous simple listing of recordings. What is totally **** is that with internet channels we can no longer start a recording at a specific point. I have a 5 hour recording of British Superbikes, I know what time a certain race is due in the recording, can I jump forward 3 hours like I used to be able to do, not now I can't."

    There are comments like yours littered across the internet with all agreeing, including me.
    Whilst the return of this feature hasn't been confirmed for slotting yet, it has been fed back so YouView know do about it.
    And our common theme? We're all sport watchers and funnily enough, none of they minded the tiles, either.

    OK. I Googled it, but I'm not really much wiser.

    I suppose that all I need to know is that HTML 5 is different from Flash and therefore a re-write was needed.

    And here's me thinking that Flash was something that was used for cleaning floors. :-)
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,116 ✭✭✭
    edited 23 April 2017, 12:20AM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    The BBC effectively started what became YouView as Project Canvas'. Their expectation was that most YouView boxes would be sold Retail and used free of further charge.

    And were an original shareholder along with the other 3 PBSs, plus BT, TalkTalk and Arqiva,

    Unfortunately for the retail dream, both BT and TT fastened on the YouView box as an excellent platform for their subscription services -BT having realised that the days of its existing BT vision box were numbered.

    And people liked paying monthly, and getting extra subscription goodies, rather than shelling out a lump sum just to get a PVR.

    So the upshot is that about 90% of the boxes out there are subscription ones, a reality now reflected in BT and TT paying the lion's share of YouView funding, rather than the equal partnership that existed before.

    So complaining to the BBC won't do much good, and nor will complaining to Humax, who just make the boxes for retail and BT (but not TT) and have no control over the YouView software running on them.

    Complaints to BT and TT, from their subscribers, may get more traction, but you may be sure that NextGen would not have gone out without the enthusiastic support of both of them, so you would need to persuade them it was a wrong move, which might be an uphill task.
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,116 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 9:59PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    The BBC effectively started what became YouView as Project Canvas'. Their expectation was that most YouView boxes would be sold Retail and used free of further charge.

    And were an original shareholder along with the other 3 PBSs, BT, TalkTalk and Arqiva,

    Unfortunately for the retail dream, both BT and TT fastened on the YouView box as an excellent platform for their subscription services -BT having realised that the days of its existing BT vision box were numbered.

    And people liked paying monthly, and getting extra subscription goodies, rather than shelling out a lump sum just to get a PVR.

    So the upshot is that about 90% of the boxes out there are subscription ones, a reality now reflected in BT and TT paying the lion's share of YouView funding, rather than the equal partnership that existed before.

    So complaining to the BBC won't do much good, and nor will complaining to Humax, who just make the boxes for retail and BT (but not TT) and have no control over the YouView software running on them.

    Complaints to BT and TT, from their subscribers, may get more traction, but you may be sure that NextGen would not have gone out without the enthusiastic support of both of them, so you would need to persuade them it was a wrong move, which might be an uphill task.
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • SpargoSpargo Member Posts: 31
    edited 22 April 2017, 10:04PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    Not sure if this is the right place to post this as it really is a question for YouView techies but as they read this, or so I'm led to believe, I'll start here first.

    1. My T2000 has a scart socket and 2 USB sockets. I assume that the scart socket is for connection of a TV and the USBs for input/output of programmes from the hard drive. The latest user manual which I downloaded from the Humax site contains no mention whatsoever of these connections. I have searched the menus for any mention but found absolutely nothing, Do the options for exporting programmes to external drives only appear if such a drive is connected? The user manual is out of date and there needs to be something, somewhere which tells us what the latest software does. A difficult job I grant you but necessary nevertheless. I once worked with an RAF ex-WIng commander who was writing a user guide for an airborne datalink which I was in charge of. He regarded software engineers as being on the same level as aircraft mechanics, ie necessary evils, but he swore with a beautiful English accent, and quite often.

    2. If I record a programme series, such as Gardener's World, which is usually on weekly but has occasional breaks for snooker, etc I notice that nothing appears in the Schedule list to say that that may be another one available soon although obviously the Guide can only look eight days ahead. If I then decide I don't want to record any more programmes in the series how do I cancel it? The only way I can see is that I have to wait until the next programme becomes visible to the Guide and then I can delete it. I also have a Panasonic BWT 735 (great piece of kit) and on there the schedule list will contain the programme name but have no transmission date but I can delete that and no more of the series will be recorded. At the moment I don't know whether I've selected the programme series or a one-off.

    3. I can appreciate that there are some posters (no names, no pack drill) who like the tiles because of improved visibility but doesn't the Zoom facility (if it works) provide this? I think that the obvious preference for lists overrides the use of tiles which, as one recent poster succinctly pointed out, is basically a waste of space. The same picture is presented for each episode in a series and doesn't impart any extra information. My Panasonic (sorry to keep harping on about it) does it a much better way - for each recorded programme there is a small live thumbnail which plays the start of the actual recorded programme so each one is different and is a considerable help in identifying the programme. I understand that the current system on YouView is to get a picture from the internet or the cloud. When the internet speed is, as ours is, verging on 2mbps max, this can slow it down a bit.

    4. I suspect that there is a lot more functionality in the Humax T2000 than is being invoked (dictionary definition of which according to one IBM employee I knew is 'to arouse by prayer or incantation ') by the current YouView product. How do I know what I am missing and how much better it could have been with an alternative operating system?

    5. Finally, and I would be churlish if I didn't say this, I congratulate YouView for at least listening to our complaints (or alternative points of view) and acting upon them. I received 27.50.0 a few days ago and the programme presentation with small tiles is better but please provide lists as an alternative. I am particularly impressed with the speedy response especially as I bought mine from John Lewis (aka the mothership) and expected to be near the tail end of the update list.


  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 10:18PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    The USB ports don't allow transfer of recordings at all. The youview box would be better connected by hdmi cable so you can watch the hd channels in hd. The only reason to connect a modern box by scart is if you have a really old tv that's big backed.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 10:25PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    Also I have a easier time with the tiles than I ever did with the lists. Also I manage to Identify most of my recordings by the picture so only have to use zoom in certain places but it's rare and never in my tv. I find the box more user friendly and would stop using youview if I had to go back to the difficulties I had with the recordings list. I have vision issues that next gen made easier for me to use my box. At least I don't have to get my wife to find my recordings on my worse days.
  • Tim CTim C Member, Super User Posts: 506 ✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 10:30PM

    The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe...
    I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-

    I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:

    "So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.

    This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.

    You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."

    If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.

    That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers.
    [End of copied bit]

    Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.

    Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.

    To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it.
    The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.

    We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️

    Spargo
    I like the way Panasonic do things as well. And that's one of my fallback options  (a PWT535 I think - it's stored in the loft at the moment) if NextGen isn't improved with text lists & improved series handling or my update blocking fails.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,877 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 8:07PM
    This thread is about -
    [Discussion of] Humax retail software update 27.50.0
    ...

    I'm sadly not actually seeing much discussion about it...
    And I'm not the police, either.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 10:59PM
    Visionman said:

    This thread is about -
    [Discussion of] Humax retail software update 27.50.0
    ...

    I'm sadly not actually seeing much discussion about it...
    And I'm not the police, either.

    I imagine Sarah will either remove or fork any off topic posts on Monday.
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 23 April 2017, 6:22AM
    Visionman said:

    This thread is about -
    [Discussion of] Humax retail software update 27.50.0
    ...

    I'm sadly not actually seeing much discussion about it...
    And I'm not the police, either.

    This update 27.50.0 is just fiddling instead of dealing with the main issues. Wake up Youview.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,877 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 11:04PM
    Visionman said:

    This thread is about -
    [Discussion of] Humax retail software update 27.50.0
    ...

    I'm sadly not actually seeing much discussion about it...
    And I'm not the police, either.

    No, its actually the start of addressing the issues...
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 22 April 2017, 11:10PM
    Visionman said:

    This thread is about -
    [Discussion of] Humax retail software update 27.50.0
    ...

    I'm sadly not actually seeing much discussion about it...
    And I'm not the police, either.

    So Youview create issues and then sort them out very slowly. Clever? I don't think so.
  • edited 22 April 2017, 11:12PM
    Visionman said:

    This thread is about -
    [Discussion of] Humax retail software update 27.50.0
    ...

    I'm sadly not actually seeing much discussion about it...
    And I'm not the police, either.

    Very well put Matthew. Will Youview admit annoying their customer base now?
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,877 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 8:07PM
    Matthew, if you have 27.50 please free to talk about it...
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 22 April 2017, 11:27PM
    Visionman said:

    Matthew, if you have 27.50 please free to talk about it...

    Excuse me. At the start of this thread it says

    Hi all,

    Please feel free to discuss the latest Humax retail software update in this discussion thread.
    Phil, Support and Communications Manager

    Feel free does NOT mean you have to have it first.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,877 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2017, 11:38PM
    Visionman said:

    Matthew, if you have 27.50 please free to talk about it...

    Then feel free...
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 24 April 2017, 9:19AM
    Visionman said:

    Matthew, if you have 27.50 please free to talk about it...

    That will also apply to all the others that you have attempted to shut down on this thread.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,877 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 April 2017, 9:19AM
    Visionman said:

    Matthew, if you have 27.50 please free to talk about it...

    This topic is about 27.50. If you consciously choose to talk about something else not related to 27.50 on a thread thats about 27.50, then that is your choice alone.
    I have no moderation powers on here and nor does any user either.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • Matthew3Matthew3 Member Posts: 18
    edited 24 April 2017, 9:19AM
    Visionman said:

    Matthew, if you have 27.50 please free to talk about it...

    WOW, great to know that you are going to stop attempting to moderate this forum from now.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,877 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 April 2017, 9:21AM
    Visionman said:

    Matthew, if you have 27.50 please free to talk about it...

    Your personal attacks on me have no effect whatsoever. Enjoy.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
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