[Discussion] BT software update 27.50.0

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  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 July 2017, 2:03PM
    John C1 said:

    I'm currently waiting on the latest release but have had an issue with 27.50.0 that is perhaps worthwhile reporting. It happened again last night and this is my second time now over the last couple of months. The remote control stops accepting certain inputs, I could not bring up the guide, change channel or hit the YouView button with any success. The power button did drop the BT DTR-2110 I have into standby however, the only way I could get the remote working again was to use the off switch at the back and power back up that way.

    This didn't occur at any time using the original software in the previous 12-18 months that I have had the box.

    Let's hope that it doesn't happen again.
  • Bruce McSquidBruce McSquid Member Posts: 1
    edited 19 September 2017, 7:05AM
    I think it sucks too. I bought the box predicated on the basis that I'd seen it and specced it up because it was easy to use with old menu system. Got it in, I liked it and preferred it to the Virgin box it replaced.

    Then while we were out for a rare evening, after we'd only had it a couple of months it updated while my Mum was babysitting then didn't work so she couldn't watch telly for the rest of the evening - perfect timing. Took my a while to massage it back in to life the next day.

    I don't see this update as an improvement at all and not find it difficult to locate recorded shows and my wife managed to accidentally delete whole series the other day instead of the single episode she thought she was removing.

    YouView please, please at least push out an update which permits recorded show to be alpha-sorted...something computers have been able to do since their inception. Better still, please can include an option for a 'classic' view so that I can have the box I purchased back again. 
  • Steven6Steven6 Member Posts: 20
    edited 6 August 2017, 12:46PM

    I think it sucks too. I bought the box predicated on the basis that I'd seen it and specced it up because it was easy to use with old menu system. Got it in, I liked it and preferred it to the Virgin box it replaced.

    Then while we were out for a rare evening, after we'd only had it a couple of months it updated while my Mum was babysitting then didn't work so she couldn't watch telly for the rest of the evening - perfect timing. Took my a while to massage it back in to life the next day.

    I don't see this update as an improvement at all and not find it difficult to locate recorded shows and my wife managed to accidentally delete whole series the other day instead of the single episode she thought she was removing.

    YouView please, please at least push out an update which permits recorded show to be alpha-sorted...something computers have been able to do since their inception. Better still, please can include an option for a 'classic' view so that I can have the box I purchased back again. 

    And that they still push out this travesty in spite of all this criticism, is truly beyond my comprehension. MONTHS before I got this downgrade, this forum was already littered with massive disapproval and disgust, the likes of which I've never seen, so why do they not desist in pushing out this ****?! I never should have received this catastrophic software downgrade, NEVER!

    Now, allegedly, there have been slight corrections in newer software updates. However, these are being pushed out at a trickling rate akin to an incontinent octogenarian. Deplorable.

    So get this, there might still be some boxes out there that are running the old (far superior) software that are still set to receive this "downgrade". And then these unfortunate box owners will have to wait months (probably a year by now??) to receive the slight remediations that should have been fixed in beta!!! Urgh. I need to stop these forum notification emails. I don't like to be reminded each time I check my inbox of just how bad this new YouView experience is.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 26 July 2017, 10:51AM

    I think it sucks too. I bought the box predicated on the basis that I'd seen it and specced it up because it was easy to use with old menu system. Got it in, I liked it and preferred it to the Virgin box it replaced.

    Then while we were out for a rare evening, after we'd only had it a couple of months it updated while my Mum was babysitting then didn't work so she couldn't watch telly for the rest of the evening - perfect timing. Took my a while to massage it back in to life the next day.

    I don't see this update as an improvement at all and not find it difficult to locate recorded shows and my wife managed to accidentally delete whole series the other day instead of the single episode she thought she was removing.

    YouView please, please at least push out an update which permits recorded show to be alpha-sorted...something computers have been able to do since their inception. Better still, please can include an option for a 'classic' view so that I can have the box I purchased back again. 

    Bruce

    YouView boxes do not update while people are watching them.

    The only possible explanation I can see for what you describe, with a fully working and healthy box. is that you had been actively preventing updates (or that you switch the YouView box off at the mains each night, which comes to the same thing), that the YouView box had not been on all day, and that when your Mum switched it on, it offered her the update, which she accepted.

    The other explanation is that your box suffered a glitch severe enough for it to try to restart itself, and this didn't quite work until you massaged it the next day.

    I lean toward this explanation, since the first possibility, although it might have resulted in your Mum being suddenly faced with NextGen and possibly being quite unable to deal with the new UI, doesn't seem to be quite what you describe.

    For the future, I recommend that you use a further aerial cable from YouView box to TV, so that if the box misbehaves, you (or she) can always fall back on the old way, of watching TV on the actual TV.

    As regards your comments about NextGen when you finally did get it working again, spot on.

    The 'Delete Series when you thought you were only deleting an episode' issue has finally been fixed, though the update with it in may not have been rolled out to you yet.

    This after YouView's realisation that no matter how specific the message (and they had a couple of goes at it, with increasing bewilderment) that people were still operating the previous Stop programme/Del/Confirm sequence they always did on CurrentGen, without noticing that they had been shot out of the Series, not just the one episode, and that the Confirm message had been changed to warn of this; muscle memory does not use the higher brain functions :-(

    Now, as exiting the episode leaves you in the Series still, as it always should have, the issue does not arise any more, thank goodness.

    Future University courses on good UI design will reference NextGen as how not to do it, just as business courses will also cite NextGen as how not to do it, for the wider set of reasons touched on by Steven :-)
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • David CroucherDavid Croucher Member Posts: 1
    edited 27 July 2017, 12:25PM
    youwhat said:

    Bought a Humax FVP-4000T (Freeview Play), great box, can record 4 x channels + watch one and can view content remotely within the house using the Humax Media Player, FTP.  Has Netflix and all other OnDemand services that Youview has and more.
    Sorry Youview, you have lost a customer of 4 years through a badly implemented rollout.

    a lot more than 3 customers, no one in our family will ever purchase any of this branded **** again !
     
  • GrundersGrunders Member Posts: 131
    edited 27 July 2017, 1:55PM
    John C1 said:

    I'm currently waiting on the latest release but have had an issue with 27.50.0 that is perhaps worthwhile reporting. It happened again last night and this is my second time now over the last couple of months. The remote control stops accepting certain inputs, I could not bring up the guide, change channel or hit the YouView button with any success. The power button did drop the BT DTR-2110 I have into standby however, the only way I could get the remote working again was to use the off switch at the back and power back up that way.

    This didn't occur at any time using the original software in the previous 12-18 months that I have had the box.

    The box 'freeze' has just happened again to me. I also noticed that during this freeze it also stopped the signal loop-through of the aerial to the TV too - when switching to direct TV avoiding the box the TV complained of no signal.  I had to physically bypass the youview box for it to work again.

    No amount of button pressing/holding on the box itself made a difference and I was forced to do the turn off/turn on to get it back running again.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 27 July 2017, 2:07PM
    John C1 said:

    I'm currently waiting on the latest release but have had an issue with 27.50.0 that is perhaps worthwhile reporting. It happened again last night and this is my second time now over the last couple of months. The remote control stops accepting certain inputs, I could not bring up the guide, change channel or hit the YouView button with any success. The power button did drop the BT DTR-2110 I have into standby however, the only way I could get the remote working again was to use the off switch at the back and power back up that way.

    This didn't occur at any time using the original software in the previous 12-18 months that I have had the box.

    This is on BT version 27.50.0? You have two BT YouView boxes, on different releases?
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • GrundersGrunders Member Posts: 131
    edited 27 July 2017, 2:38PM
    John C1 said:

    I'm currently waiting on the latest release but have had an issue with 27.50.0 that is perhaps worthwhile reporting. It happened again last night and this is my second time now over the last couple of months. The remote control stops accepting certain inputs, I could not bring up the guide, change channel or hit the YouView button with any success. The power button did drop the BT DTR-2110 I have into standby however, the only way I could get the remote working again was to use the off switch at the back and power back up that way.

    This didn't occur at any time using the original software in the previous 12-18 months that I have had the box.

    No its on the latest.  I was continuing the comments regarding the suggestion (by Jonesh) that a 'soft reset' is a solution to exit out of the problem when it happens.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 27 July 2017, 3:51PM
    John C1 said:

    I'm currently waiting on the latest release but have had an issue with 27.50.0 that is perhaps worthwhile reporting. It happened again last night and this is my second time now over the last couple of months. The remote control stops accepting certain inputs, I could not bring up the guide, change channel or hit the YouView button with any success. The power button did drop the BT DTR-2110 I have into standby however, the only way I could get the remote working again was to use the off switch at the back and power back up that way.

    This didn't occur at any time using the original software in the previous 12-18 months that I have had the box.

    Ah, got it, apologies!

    Yes indeed, with a frozen box, a power cycle is indeed the only thing that will thaw it :-(
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • SarahBSarahB Member Posts: 4
    edited 28 July 2017, 8:13PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    I agree with Adam and Paul. Dreadful update. The original YouView box interface was so much better, quicker and easier. I joined TalkTalk to get away from BT. I never wanted to have anything to do with that company again. If it's something to do with them then it's no surprise the update is awful and has been forced upon customers with no choice. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 July 2017, 9:58PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    TalkTalk are in it up to their necks quite as far as BT are - in fact they were first to launch.

    Both ISPs wanted NextGen out there, arguably well before it was really ready, as ithey wanted to get their new Players, which were ready, and are much more tightly integrated into NextGen than their CurrentGen Players were, out there as fast as possible.

    The popular idea that YouView launched NextGen, and dragged the ISPs kicking and screaming with it, is 180 degrees ****-backwards :-(
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,167 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 July 2017, 10:03PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    I couldn't agree more that BT and TalkTalk were pushing this, although when is a major new interface ever completely "ready?" I don't get what you mean about the Players though, Roy?
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 July 2017, 11:07PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    I don't think we expected completely ready; just something that didn't, by comparison, make Ethelred look remarkably well prepared :-)

    In CurrentGen, the BT and TT extra bits over standard retail were implemented as Players, and could be found in the Players section.

    Now they hang off the Main Menu, I'm not sure what we call them :-( But those, anyway.
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 July 2017, 11:10PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Roy>
    "Both ISPs wanted NextGen out there, arguably well before it was really ready, as ithey wanted to get their new Players, which were ready, and are much more tightly integrated into NextGen than their CurrentGen Players were, out there as fast as possible."
    No.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 July 2017, 7:25AM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Visionman, you of all people I should not have to remind of the YouView Community Terms Of Use :-(

    12. ...Do not simply put down the opinion or advice given by others. If you don't agree with it, say why - respectfully. Don't just tell them they're wrong.. ...

    I am happy to be contradicted by a reasoned argument, but your bald 'No' rather breaks the rules .

    While my assertion is informed deduction, it is not backed by any privileged information, and indeed if it was, I could not say it here.

    But if you have any such to support your contradiction which you likewise cannot post here, then you know the mechanisms to use.
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • Steve KSteve K Member Posts: 295
    edited 29 July 2017, 6:34PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Discussion of the basic issues of Next Gen are getting hopelessly split across multiple threads including several with very similar titles.  

    As Roy says this update makes Ethelred look good but that's not the biggest issue.  I can accept mistakes as long as there is prompt admission of it and a commitment to fix the issues.  All we are seeing is denial and/or hiding.

    Youview need to give a list of the functional issues they accept need fixing and an expected schedule for correcting them

    And whoever moderates this forum really needs to combine all of the discussions of Next Gen deficiencies into one thread.  Unless of course their aim is divide and rule
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 July 2017, 7:34PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    "I can accept mistakes as long as there is prompt admission of it and a commitment to fix the issues.  All we are seeing is denial and/or hiding."
    No we're not. YouView have committed to fixing these issues, so what you state is quite simply not true.
    "Youview need to give a list of the functional issues they accept need fixing and an expected schedule for correcting them"
    They already have, but they'll never give a date for them and nor should they either.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 30 July 2017, 10:54AM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Steve K

    There was one thread, and it was written on Day Zero by Keith, and it ably summarised all the pros (some) and cons (many) of NextGen as it stood at that time.

    Using his special editing powers, Keith has been able to keep that thread up to date ever since.

    And of the ten thousand-odd postings since, I'd say about eight thousand could have been 'Me Toos' and 'What he saids' there, instead of the tens if not hundreds of disparate threads that have resulted from people posting their (understandable) ire without looking to see if pretty much everything they have to say, apart from casting doubt on the competence and parentage of those concerned, had not already been said.
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 July 2017, 10:13PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Parentage?
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 30 July 2017, 8:24AM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    A figure of speech referring euphemistically to certain forms of verbal abuse, in a jocular fashion. No such abuse was actually given, but you kind of knew people were thinking it :-)
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • andrew1andrew1 Member Posts: 17
    edited 30 July 2017, 9:05AM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Visionman, you mentioned that youview have committed to fixing the issues but can't and shouldn't say when.  Could you let me know where they have said that as it's quite a big deal if they have publically committed to fixing all of the issues?  I can understand them not being able to give precise dates but they should be able to say what they are working on first and roughly when it will be ready.

    I had two conversations directly with BT when I made a formal complaint about the upgrade not being fit for purpose.  During both conversations they said to me that they can not fix all of the issues people have raised but they are monitoring the forums to see which issues are pressing that they can fix.  They both made it sound like no decision had been made about what to fix and when.  Were these two people out of the loop and doing BT a disservice or were they more in the know and just being honest with me?  

    They closed my formal complaint on the basis that they are not going to do anything to fix my you view box.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭
    edited 30 July 2017, 10:55AM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    As I said before I think one will not be able to find something that says YouView will agree with all the issues listed and then address them to the satisfaction of all. I've already listed what I consider YouView have confirmed in my post over here.

    Beyond that there is the more specific topic on MyTV that YouView created to show they were listening and acting in that area.

    For me with the MyTV journeys now largely fixed (although there is room for improvement such as splitting into series, ideally landing in a series at the oldest part unwatched episode etc) my main day to day use issue is resolved. I've got used to the MyTV tiles (once they got rid of the silly quadruple tile) although again would be happy to see further improvement (e.g. 2 lines of text for titles so they are not cropped, show number of episodes on every tile not just scroll in on the one in focus). I expect edit channels will be back soon now and that will clean up my EPG (although I would still have a slight preference for a mini TV on it too, wrap around of the list, and if they were going to go beyond old gen then channel list reordering too!). I did not use discover and rarely used the action panel but to have those back in the future will be good for others.

    I do not immediately recall a public confirmation they will bring back the jump to a specific minute in a recording feature. I would have thought that was well worth doing so something it would be good to see YouView deliver soon (or failing that then publicly commit to doing it).

    There are still various other 'issues' noted in my first impressions post. Only YouView can say if they have any intention to address most of those and when. Chances of them saying so in public are limited (until they are working on the item and ready or close to releasing it).
  • Steve KSteve K Member Posts: 295
    edited 30 July 2017, 11:02AM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Well said Keith (again)

    It would certainly be good if the forum management would act to move discussions to the thread that YouView said they would monitor.  As I said though I believe it suits YouView to see feedback fragmented

    When you say "the MyTV journeys now largely fixed" did you mean just the issues with that particular function or (as could be read) all of the issues introduced by the Next Gen change?
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭
    edited 30 July 2017, 12:42PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Hi Steve - the issues (as I saw it) in rough order of severity with MyTV journeys were:
    1. exit journey from a recording did not return you to the exact episode you entered from such that you might easily delete it or move on to the next - resolved in 28.26.0 (having in 27.45.0 changed to actually returned you to MyTV rather than live TV)
    2. entry journey to a series put you on the newest item when the majority appeared to want the oldest - resolved in 27.50.0
    3. accidental deletion of the entire series, typically occurred as a consequence of the poor exit journey returning one to the overall tile and then one deleting the whole series without quite realising - dealt with as a consequence of 1 plus better deletion messages
    4. quadruple tile was distracting and made it harder for some to understand the natural row by row route through the tiles - resolved in 27.50.0
    What this leaves unresolved is that point 2 above does not suit everyone. Ideally YouView would tweak that code to enter on the oldest part unwatched item (the system knows what this is so I might expect it to be only a small code tweak). Even that may not suit everyone so they could just introduce a setting option where one can choose from oldest, newest, oldest part unwatched (with the last one being the default).

    Beyond that the MyTV 'issues' are them more about the info one sees on the tiles (where the slightly larger tiles now show 20 letters of a title rather than 15, but old gen showed nearer 35) and how the overall info is presented, i.e. tiles or lists. Whilst I would like to see a list view return for accessibility and/or preference reasons I am adequately comfortable with the tiles as they now are.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭
    edited 30 July 2017, 12:55PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    re point 2. In the past I've asked for a carousel for series stacks. In that whether the cursor lands on the newest recording (as at launch) or the oldest (as is now) one can flick the controller left or right, which has the effect of (in a circular motion) flicking the cursor to either the newest or oldest episode.
    Though it should be noted not one of NextGens functions or features has a carousel action, which is a failing, on my opinion.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭
    edited 30 July 2017, 1:24PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Yes, a wrap around effect would be good too, although Joe would likely point out that splitting into series would be cleaner and less prone to people going around and around and getting confused. They could easily put a blank tile or boundary line between tiles as one wraps around though to make it more obvious if appropriate.

    Whatever YouView do though it would be good to see more evidence soon that they have not been going round and round in circles internally and have in fact been progressing parallel tracks that will all deliver in time and move things forwards ;-)
  • zulu17zulu17 Member, Super User Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
    edited 30 July 2017, 2:04PM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    We should bear in mind that MyTV consists of both Recordings and Scheduled .
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭
    edited 1 August 2017, 10:33AM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Keith -
    Re My TV - The response of YouView (Retail) BT and TalkTalk to (rightly) massive user criticism at launch was swift. And these unplanned changes, based purely upon negative user feedback, were written from scratch. They couldn't have responded so rapidly on CurrentGen.
    The improvements to the My TV user journey have so far been impressive, but more work needs to be done -
    • Introduce Carousels (also known as a wrap-around)
    • Drop the cursor onto the first tile and not the 'Recordings' header (major pain)
    • Split series stacks/identifiers 
    • Offer the user options in 'Settings'.
    However, I think YouView have been deflected enough from their planned releases of 'Edit Channels', 'Action Panel' and 'Discover' and they are now concentrated on getting these out.
    I personally don't use any of the above, but the outcry for Edit Channels (Hide) has been massive on all the YouView fora across the net. As such we will hopefully see this feature released soon, and as with the improved user journey, hopefully also with improvements.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • Steve KSteve K Member Posts: 295
    edited 31 July 2017, 10:59AM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    Maybe we should do a poll on most resented functional errors

    To me the #1 by a very long way is no longer being able to set a start point for playing a long recording.

    #2:  no longer being able to see recordings as a list showing how many are in each series 

    #3  no longer having a precise display of the position (as minutes and seconds) of the play point in the play buffer

    Sad truth is because of those, now the Tour de France is over I am just not using the YouView box anymore.  It used to be my main free to air channels recorder
  • GrundersGrunders Member Posts: 131
    edited 1 August 2017, 10:32AM
    jimb said:

    Plenty of discussion to be found about this subject on Visionman's thread here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    I agree on those 3 points but would make them all equal priority.  Added to it I would also like the box to remain stable and stop freezing every day or so.  And remove the function of the BACK button to stop playback reverting to only using the normal 'stop' button (the clue is in the title) - I find this a right PITA in particularly in conjunction with that god-awful half screen of extended fog covering half the screen every time you touch a button on the remote.  (Get the timing wrong to pick up the remote, and press BACK to remove the fog and you find yourself stopping the whole playback and going back to live TV.  Whoever thought that was a good idea.)
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