My box was only updated the latest software yesterday. I have noticed now when I set a recording eg start time 9pm end time 10pm. If the program runs over by seconds or minutes, the recording ends at 10pm and the run over time is not recorded !! . On the old software this was a very rare occurrence The old software seemed to know when the program had started and ended if the program schedule was slightly out. Has anyone else noticed this. Looks like I may have to record the program after the one I am recording to see the end. I have a Humax dtr-t2100 box.
Having just had the update, I was immediately disappointed for 5 reasons and wish I hadnt had it:
1, when calling on a recording for playback we can no longer enter the user choice of playback begin time (ie, tap in 10:00 to start playback after 10 minutes in to the program). Now it seems to be either from the start of the program or wherever you left off watching. Terrible. This is highly important to be brought back. Imagine a recording that is 3 hours long (like a film) and you stop at 2 hours. When you resume the next day you want to start from 1 hour in again to remind you where you had seen up to or want to show a scene to your partner at a specific point you noted. Now you cant without the ball-ache of laborious rewinding/fastforwarding.
2, The GUIDE which shows the *popular* programs on show now for quick select is typically showing the SD versions (channel 1, 2, 3, 4 etc). I never watch SD channels (big screen, fuzzy pictures with SD) so they are pointless and take up space. Need the choice to remove the feature or tailor it to show only HD versions of the channels.
3, On the old software, during INFO of a program (eg channel 1) would show similar to "Available on HD/Watch on HD" where you can effectively go to the HD equivalent channel. Now it doesnt show this.
4, The 'background program image', although can be turned off if a distraction, is no substitute for the 'mini preview' window that used to show in the corner whilst browsing the guide. Now we have completely lost the ability to keep an eye on the current program whilst taking time to review our guide and MyTV options.
5, The program 'splash screen' image of the recorded programs are hiding the full program titles. Titles used to be seen in full in the old text based system but this flash version concentrate more on distracting image to the detriment of clear visible program title information (where it is longer than, say, 4 words). Example, it would now show "The Graham Norton S" instead of "The Graham Norton Show". Or "New Celebrity Juice:.." instead of "New Celebrity Juice Xmas Show" (which is a very different show to the normal one). This is VERY bad. You would need to start to watch the program before being able to determine which it is (or press INFO). Why should we have to do this?! (A clear sign of style over substance).
I wished I hadnt done the update. It was a backwards step in favour of using program imagery and removed some key useful features.
Well, anybody can read it, not just you :-)
But your "we are now seeing objections to a change that the first wave of complainants were most insistent about" was my nice lead-in to it, and i wanted to say that I thought this wasn't a 50-50 flip-flop, and while the original "Last Tile" approach did suit some people, it wouldn't be so many as compared to the "First Tile" brigade.
Re your interesting last point, the fundamentally bad thing, IMHO, is that Series handling, possibly the most complex thing that YouView has to do, is implemented in the Info function (try pressing the i button when in Recordings and a Series tile is selected - it does the same as OK. Then try pressing the i button when you are in there looking at the Series - it will exit back to the Recordings screen.
So you have to have the info bar for each Series episode displayed already, as you can't press i to get it.
Accordingly, I think this is a bad thing.
In fact, I think it is a very bad thing, as it will require all the Series handling code to be dug out of the essentially passive low-functionality Info function, and reimplemented as the high-complexity highly-active extension to the Record/Playback function that it needs to be.
I have been looking for a name for this sort of code design error, but I can't find it; perhaps Stephen will know.
Or perhaps he will explain that I am FoS here, and why I am wrong :-)
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
Having just had the update, I was immediately disappointed for 5 reasons and wish I hadnt had it:
1, when calling on a recording for playback we can no longer enter the user choice of playback begin time (ie, tap in 10:00 to start playback after 10 minutes in to the program). Now it seems to be either from the start of the program or wherever you left off watching. Terrible. This is highly important to be brought back. Imagine a recording that is 3 hours long (like a film) and you stop at 2 hours. When you resume the next day you want to start from 1 hour in again to remind you where you had seen up to or want to show a scene to your partner at a specific point you noted. Now you cant without the ball-ache of laborious rewinding/fastforwarding.
2, The GUIDE which shows the *popular* programs on show now for quick select is typically showing the SD versions (channel 1, 2, 3, 4 etc). I never watch SD channels (big screen, fuzzy pictures with SD) so they are pointless and take up space. Need the choice to remove the feature or tailor it to show only HD versions of the channels.
3, On the old software, during INFO of a program (eg channel 1) would show similar to "Available on HD/Watch on HD" where you can effectively go to the HD equivalent channel. Now it doesnt show this.
4, The 'background program image', although can be turned off if a distraction, is no substitute for the 'mini preview' window that used to show in the corner whilst browsing the guide. Now we have completely lost the ability to keep an eye on the current program whilst taking time to review our guide and MyTV options.
5, The program 'splash screen' image of the recorded programs are hiding the full program titles. Titles used to be seen in full in the old text based system but this flash version concentrate more on distracting image to the detriment of clear visible program title information (where it is longer than, say, 4 words). Example, it would now show "The Graham Norton S" instead of "The Graham Norton Show". Or "New Celebrity Juice:.." instead of "New Celebrity Juice Xmas Show" (which is a very different show to the normal one). This is VERY bad. You would need to start to watch the program before being able to determine which it is (or press INFO). Why should we have to do this?! (A clear sign of style over substance).
I wished I hadnt done the update. It was a backwards step in favour of using program imagery and removed some key useful features.
I agree that improvements still need to be made to MyTV, but for me it is how you move within it that is key. I never did get the hang of up/down/OK etc. and the differing points these would lead you to access the old lists, hence my general preference for the tiles. I think/hope that once the "journey" process is improved including better scrolling functionality then many other objections will fade away.
"The second bug is now that as a BT customer I only have the standard definition subscription, if I search for a program it puts the HD versions I am not subscribed to first...."
I didn't know there was such a thing as an SD-only subscription. Would anyone with BT TV care to comment?
simple - I dont pay for the HD package on BT, i only get things like Comedy Central, GOLD, Alibi etc in SD, If i search for a show I know is on say Comedy Central i get a list of all the ones on Comedy Central HD up first so i have to scroll for ages to find one i can watch
I still cant understand why i have to press the "youview" button once it turns on to get rid of that stupid TV guide...what is the point of this? im obviously missing it
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
Hi Gee - the chances of a roll back would be about zero, this has been rolling out for over 5 months, the roll out is expected to be complete in June, and is most likely rolled out to getting on for 2m boxes now (out of about 2.5m boxes in total).
Almost all the issues have been listed since day one of the roll out and only now are we seeing the smallest of changes in response to such matters. Whilst the feedback on this forum is largely negative YouView say they have plenty of positive feedback from other channels including trialists and focus groups used before the launch.
Whether the issues are ultimately causing some people to move away from YouView only YouView, BT and TalkTalk can probably say (and are unlikely to do so). Given change has so far been slow I would suspect BT and TalkTalk are not seeing many people leave otherwise they would have exerted pressure for faster change (or stopping the roll out or even rolling back). That further change is needed to address various short comings in next gen seems clear, when it will come is somewhat uncertain as is how much change there will be. I would like to think though they will have ironed out many of the issues by Christmas if not before.
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
Hi Gee - the chances of a roll back would be about zero
Hey Keith, you are not prepared to go beyond "about?" A bit non-committal that. :-)
Here's a screenshot of the CEO of YouView with his head in his hands just after seeing what programme details have been put on the banner when pausing MotD.
This isn't a massive problem, obviously (a quick back out of the recording and into it again rectified the data), but it IS yet another bug which is more evidence in favour that this NextGen has not had any thorough testing.
I'm a software tester for a living and whilst I agree testing will prove there are bugs, it will never prove there are none, comments along the lines of "oh well you should have seen it before!" Are not good enough, people want a quality product, not "we tried"
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
There will be no roll back tho I'm now looking at moving away from youview to now tv
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
How about 'infinitesimal' or 'infinitesimally small'; zero would be very final and perhaps there is some astonishingly improbably set of circumstances that if they came into alignment could result in a rollback. For all intents and purposes though, as I've said elsewhere, this train only goes in one direction (whether it currently has all the carriages or not) ;-)
Here's a screenshot of the CEO of YouView with his head in his hands just after seeing what programme details have been put on the banner when pausing MotD.
This isn't a massive problem, obviously (a quick back out of the recording and into it again rectified the data), but it IS yet another bug which is more evidence in favour that this NextGen has not had any thorough testing.
And what a living that must be, until they find the perfect software, obviously.
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
Keith> "Whether the issues are ultimately causing some people to move away from YouView [and] only YouView, BT and TalkTalk can probably say (and are unlikely to do so)."
TalkTalks numbers have decreased recently and BTs risen, but that was all pre-NextGen. 6 months will tell, but I doubt will have any effect. Despite anything said on here.
I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
I can tell you, but you would think I'm just having a go at TT, which I wouldn't be. Lets just say the data scandal hit them hard. In more ways than one.
I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
Not at all and I have no axe to grind for TT. But this information must be in the public domain after all?
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
Yes, the press. Upon the data scandal, they shed 37,000 users in just one quarter and with the refusal of Dido to resign their shares hit the floor. Then upon Didos later declaration to resign, after being offered a GOVT position, TTs shares rose by 25%, but are still on the floor. Why someone hasn't come in for them is beyond me, as they would be a sound investment.
I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
Ah, we were at cross purposes I think. I also think big fat Charlie has a better long-term view with no pressure to sell than many might realise.
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
Wouldn't be allowed...
I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
Having just had the update, I was immediately disappointed for 5 reasons and wish I hadnt had it:
1, when calling on a recording for playback we can no longer enter the user choice of playback begin time (ie, tap in 10:00 to start playback after 10 minutes in to the program). Now it seems to be either from the start of the program or wherever you left off watching. Terrible. This is highly important to be brought back. Imagine a recording that is 3 hours long (like a film) and you stop at 2 hours. When you resume the next day you want to start from 1 hour in again to remind you where you had seen up to or want to show a scene to your partner at a specific point you noted. Now you cant without the ball-ache of laborious rewinding/fastforwarding.
2, The GUIDE which shows the *popular* programs on show now for quick select is typically showing the SD versions (channel 1, 2, 3, 4 etc). I never watch SD channels (big screen, fuzzy pictures with SD) so they are pointless and take up space. Need the choice to remove the feature or tailor it to show only HD versions of the channels.
3, On the old software, during INFO of a program (eg channel 1) would show similar to "Available on HD/Watch on HD" where you can effectively go to the HD equivalent channel. Now it doesnt show this.
4, The 'background program image', although can be turned off if a distraction, is no substitute for the 'mini preview' window that used to show in the corner whilst browsing the guide. Now we have completely lost the ability to keep an eye on the current program whilst taking time to review our guide and MyTV options.
5, The program 'splash screen' image of the recorded programs are hiding the full program titles. Titles used to be seen in full in the old text based system but this flash version concentrate more on distracting image to the detriment of clear visible program title information (where it is longer than, say, 4 words). Example, it would now show "The Graham Norton S" instead of "The Graham Norton Show". Or "New Celebrity Juice:.." instead of "New Celebrity Juice Xmas Show" (which is a very different show to the normal one). This is VERY bad. You would need to start to watch the program before being able to determine which it is (or press INFO). Why should we have to do this?! (A clear sign of style over substance).
I wished I hadnt done the update. It was a backwards step in favour of using program imagery and removed some key useful features.
I find it hard to understand why the old 'info' details are not there, if they are going to be added later - why rollout now? I remember SKY doing a similar change but allowing the list option to be retained if required rather than just assuming we all want pictures and extra data only when the box is selected. Madness, very cross Marc L
New interface is terrible. Give us more options in "Settings / Accessibility & Language / Appearance", including one to revert to lists with no pictures.
Agree, please allow an option to go back to the old interface too - allowing that might be the best way of finding out what the users actually want.
New interface is terrible. Give us more options in "Settings / Accessibility & Language / Appearance", including one to revert to lists with no pictures.
YouView should know what its users want, from Keith's 100-item list of things that actual users have actually requested from YouView over the last five years; some provided, many not.
If what its users want had been a major driver for YouView, they would have been working down this list by now.
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
This new software update sucks. -The 'discover' feature has been removed making it impossible to simultaneously browse BBC I player, ITV player etc. -You can no longer scroll through your recordings in a list view -You can no longer filter your recordings by watched/not watched -The pause/rewind and live record features have all become more buggy and sound/picture often get scrambled.
I have tried twice now to return my box to factory settings, but it wont let me. I have now lost two years worth of recordings and am still stuck with this awful new interface.
I am extremely disappointed as, until this update I have always been entirely satisfied with this Youview box. If I am unable to factory reset and return to the old (much better) interface, I will be forced to replace the box with a rival brand. Adam
I think you are talking about NextGen generally, rather than the small improvements wrought by 27.50.0
Your factory reset has worked - this has never, even on CurrentGen, brought back an old software release.
If you had asked here in time, we could have told you that, and you need not have lost your recordings :-(
I guess that rival brand beckons; as ever, we politely ask that when you have fastened on one and established your use of it, you pop back and tell us all the ways in which it is better.
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
Okay, my biggest issue with this update is definitely the recording page. I have a series recording with 45 episodes in the folder for my two toddlers. When you go into the series folder, you only get 5 episodes displayed and there is no way to jump forward a page at a time. When you go into this folder, you are always placed on the first entry regardless of where you were previously. If you want to jump to the end of the list, you can't even tap left to jump to the end, you can have to tap right individually, in this case 44 times to get to the end. Crazy! Now, what happens if I have done this and finished watching the episode and decide I want to delete it? When the recording stops and you dismiss the notification, it takes you back outside the series folder. I now need to go back into it and tap right 44 times again to get back to that episode so I can delete it! I love the YouView box but this latest update is beyond frustrating!
This is my biggest issue. Check the photo I uploaded here, it's ridiculous how much UI was ignored with this latest software downgrade.
Okay, my biggest issue with this update is definitely the recording page. I have a series recording with 45 episodes in the folder for my two toddlers. When you go into the series folder, you only get 5 episodes displayed and there is no way to jump forward a page at a time. When you go into this folder, you are always placed on the first entry regardless of where you were previously. If you want to jump to the end of the list, you can't even tap left to jump to the end, you can have to tap right individually, in this case 44 times to get to the end. Crazy! Now, what happens if I have done this and finished watching the episode and decide I want to delete it? When the recording stops and you dismiss the notification, it takes you back outside the series folder. I now need to go back into it and tap right 44 times again to get back to that episode so I can delete it! I love the YouView box but this latest update is beyond frustrating!
Same issue I face with a large number of episodes in a series recording. Much prefer the simple page full of listings to get as many episodes as possible onto a single page.
This needs rolling back or at least an option to have a text based view. This icon based design might work well on a tablet but it's terrible on a tv. Might have to drag the old sky box out of the garage in the meantime.
Comments
But your "we are now seeing objections to a change that the first wave of complainants were most insistent about"
was my nice lead-in to it, and i wanted to say that I thought this wasn't a 50-50 flip-flop, and while the original "Last Tile" approach did suit some people, it wouldn't be so many as compared to the "First Tile" brigade.
Re your interesting last point, the fundamentally bad thing, IMHO, is that Series handling, possibly the most complex thing that YouView has to do, is implemented in the Info function (try pressing the i button when in Recordings and a Series tile is selected - it does the same as OK. Then try pressing the i button when you are in there looking at the Series - it will exit back to the Recordings screen.
So you have to have the info bar for each Series episode displayed already, as you can't press i to get it.
Accordingly, I think this is a bad thing.
In fact, I think it is a very bad thing, as it will require all the Series handling code to be dug out of the essentially passive low-functionality Info function, and reimplemented as the high-complexity highly-active extension to the Record/Playback function that it needs to be.
I have been looking for a name for this sort of code design error, but I can't find it; perhaps Stephen will know.
Or perhaps he will explain that I am FoS here, and why I am wrong :-)
If i search for a show I know is on say Comedy Central i get a list of all the ones on Comedy Central HD up first so i have to scroll for ages to find one i can watch
BT/Youview need to get this update rolled back asap or they will be losing customers.
Why not canvas/poll users in future as to what they would actually like to see in future updates rather than roll out something that is complete garbage and destroys the functionality of the service.
Almost all the issues have been listed since day one of the roll out and only now are we seeing the smallest of changes in response to such matters. Whilst the feedback on this forum is largely negative YouView say they have plenty of positive feedback from other channels including trialists and focus groups used before the launch.
Whether the issues are ultimately causing some people to move away from YouView only YouView, BT and TalkTalk can probably say (and are unlikely to do so). Given change has so far been slow I would suspect BT and TalkTalk are not seeing many people leave otherwise they would have exerted pressure for faster change (or stopping the roll out or even rolling back). That further change is needed to address various short comings in next gen seems clear, when it will come is somewhat uncertain as is how much change there will be. I would like to think though they will have ironed out many of the issues by Christmas if not before.
"Whether the issues are ultimately causing some people to move away from YouView [and] only YouView, BT and TalkTalk can probably say (and are unlikely to do so)."
TalkTalks numbers have decreased recently and BTs risen, but that was all pre-NextGen. 6 months will tell, but I doubt will have any effect. Despite anything said on here.
Lets just say the data scandal hit them hard. In more ways than one.
Agree, please allow an option to go back to the old interface too - allowing that might be the best way of finding out what the users actually want.
If what its users want had been a major driver for YouView, they would have been working down this list by now.
-The 'discover' feature has been removed making it impossible to simultaneously browse BBC I player, ITV player etc.
-You can no longer scroll through your recordings in a list view
-You can no longer filter your recordings by watched/not watched
-The pause/rewind and live record features have all become more buggy and sound/picture often get scrambled.
I have tried twice now to return my box to factory settings, but it wont let me.
I have now lost two years worth of recordings and am still stuck with this awful new interface.
I am extremely disappointed as, until this update I have always been entirely satisfied with this Youview box.
If I am unable to factory reset and return to the old (much better) interface, I will be forced to replace the box with a rival brand.
Adam
Your factory reset has worked - this has never, even on CurrentGen, brought back an old software release.
If you had asked here in time, we could have told you that, and you need not have lost your recordings :-(
I guess that rival brand beckons; as ever, we politely ask that when you have fastened on one and established your use of it, you pop back and tell us all the ways in which it is better.
None of these users needed an engineer and got fixed -
https://community.bt.com/t5/YouView-Boxes/Re-IPC6017-error-after-using-BT-player/td-p/1741432/page/5#
Or contact YouView -
https://community.youview.com/youview/topics/-discussion-bt-software-update-27-50-0-d5t1siggrtrn?top...
This icon based design might work well on a tablet but it's terrible on a tv.
Might have to drag the old sky box out of the garage in the meantime.