[Discussion] Humax software update 28.23.0

2

Comments

  • jbtiborjbtibor Member Posts: 14
    edited 14 May 2017, 12:29PM
    jbtibor said:

    I don't know if it was this update or another but here are my issues.
    1. Can't find where to set 24h clock?
    2. No list view for recordings. The view with images is cluttered.
    3. After watching a recording both stop and back buttons open recordings page instead the page for the show I was watching so I have to open show details again and scroll through all recorded episodes.
    4. Recordings whithin a show are sorted oldest to newest so I have to scroll a lot to find latest. Should be sorted newest to oldest.

    I agree that it's impossible to have a single solution what pleases everyone, but I think selecting that oldest unwatched episode would satisfy a large majority of users. Also, deleters wouldn't really notice if order was newest first because I assume they wouldn't have more that 3-4 recordings at any time. Or something like in old version with list view where I pressed OK twice and I got the newest recording would also be acceptable.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 5:14PM
    jbtibor said:

    I don't know if it was this update or another but here are my issues.
    1. Can't find where to set 24h clock?
    2. No list view for recordings. The view with images is cluttered.
    3. After watching a recording both stop and back buttons open recordings page instead the page for the show I was watching so I have to open show details again and scroll through all recorded episodes.
    4. Recordings whithin a show are sorted oldest to newest so I have to scroll a lot to find latest. Should be sorted newest to oldest.

    A problem though for many deleters is they are not keep-uppers and hence they may say gather in an entire series of 10+ episodes and only then start watching. It was in part this backlog of episodes (which for some people was not just 10 or so but 50+) which led to the general feedback over the last 5-6 months that oldest would be better for more than newest.

    Ultimately YouView should just put in the relatively small amount of effort needed to:
    • default to oldest (part) unwatched
    • enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted
    • provide an option that allows a user to change the default behaviour to instead be oldest, newest (or the default oldest (part) unwatched)
    • and of course return you to the exact episode tile when you exit a recording (so you can delete it or move on to the next one easily when desired)
    Surely none of that is particularly difficult and it would thus seem easier to give the customer what is needed than it is to field months of negative feedback about rigid and inefficient features (and of course missing ones too) :)
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 1:28PM
    jbtibor said:

    I don't know if it was this update or another but here are my issues.
    1. Can't find where to set 24h clock?
    2. No list view for recordings. The view with images is cluttered.
    3. After watching a recording both stop and back buttons open recordings page instead the page for the show I was watching so I have to open show details again and scroll through all recorded episodes.
    4. Recordings whithin a show are sorted oldest to newest so I have to scroll a lot to find latest. Should be sorted newest to oldest.

    An even shorter (easier?) short-list of improvements would at least accommodate the 2nd and 4th of Keith's bullet points above, which would surely meet most objections.
  • stokesd3stokesd3 Member Posts: 137
    edited 22 May 2017, 4:52PM
    The jump from v27 to v28 implies major updates but I'm guessing not. Surely by now it should be putting you back into the series folder when stopping a programme. Still no option for more episodes whether upcoming or on demand either? Ugh :P
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭
    edited 19 May 2017, 8:39PM
    Keith>
    "A problem though for many deleters is they are not keep-uppers and hence they may say gather in an entire series of 10+ episodes and only then start watching. It was in part this backlog of episodes (which for some people was not just 10 or so but 50+) which led to the general feedback over the last 5-6 months that oldest would be better for more than newest. 

    Ultimately YouView should just put in the relatively small amount of effort needed to:
    • default to oldest (part) unwatched
    • enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted
    • provide an option that allows a user to change the default behaviour to instead be oldest, newest (or the default oldest (part) unwatched)
    • and of course return you to the exact episode tile when you exit a recording (so you can delete it or move on to the next one easily when desired)
    Surely none of that is particularly difficult and it would thus seem easier to give the customer what is needed than it is to field months of negative feedback about rigid and inefficient features (and of course missing ones too) :)"
    Point of note - YouView 2.0 does not take into account 'hoarders'. And neither did or does YV 1.0.
    Second Point of note - nor does any other box, either.
    There are many reasons for this, but the main one is PVRs these days are viewed (by the platform/manufacturer/provider) as temporary storage devices, and not a permanent repository.
    I'm not saying that is right or wrong, I'm just commenting on it and their attitude to it.

    One of your points has tweeked me, and with good reason, and it is this -

    "enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted"
    Amen to that Kieth and thats a point I've hammered home time and again.
    NONE of YV 2.0s features have a carousel action, which is a big miss and in my view a big, big, fault.
    User lands on the oldest episode (or newest, or last unwatched, or what the hell ever) and then has the option to flick left. Or right. Or even up and down.
    Hm. Its a huge hole and it needs to be filled....
    I disagree with the disagree as is, as its a joke.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,647 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 3:35PM
    jbtibor said:

    I don't know if it was this update or another but here are my issues.
    1. Can't find where to set 24h clock?
    2. No list view for recordings. The view with images is cluttered.
    3. After watching a recording both stop and back buttons open recordings page instead the page for the show I was watching so I have to open show details again and scroll through all recorded episodes.
    4. Recordings whithin a show are sorted oldest to newest so I have to scroll a lot to find latest. Should be sorted newest to oldest.

    Keith, dont forget the option to binge-watch, where the default after watching an episode is that it shows you the next one, unless you actively stop the process.
    I have a low opinion of people who press the Disagree button instead of engaging in reasoned debate. 
    I have an even lower opinion of YouView’s continued policy of letting such people hide behind the cloak of anonymity.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,647 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 3:36PM
    stokesd3 said:

    The jump from v27 to v28 implies major updates but I'm guessing not. Surely by now it should be putting you back into the series folder when stopping a programme. Still no option for more episodes whether upcoming or on demand either? Ugh :P

    I think YouView use one of the old Camelot lottery machines to choose release numbers for them?
    I have a low opinion of people who press the Disagree button instead of engaging in reasoned debate. 
    I have an even lower opinion of YouView’s continued policy of letting such people hide behind the cloak of anonymity.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,647 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 3:41PM
    Visionman, we did find that there is a carousel action in the mini guide, so you can wrap round from channel 001 to channel 900, or whatever.

    So it's clearly doable.

    And it is to be hoped that these postings will encourage YouView to bring this back everywhere, rather than going "Oops, we missed one!" and knocking it on the head :-(
    I have a low opinion of people who press the Disagree button instead of engaging in reasoned debate. 
    I have an even lower opinion of YouView’s continued policy of letting such people hide behind the cloak of anonymity.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭
    edited 15 May 2017, 12:24AM
    I've been in a very dark mood about YV 2.0 for a while now. But I owe a YouView staffer an apology.
    Steven, I apologise. You got my bite, but it was me, not you. And you have my respect.
    And yes Roy, carousels are possible, and so are HTML5 graphics as well with this platform.
    So many options! But which will they take?
    DEEP THOUGHT....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZLtcTZP2js 
    I disagree with the disagree as is, as its a joke.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 4:09PM
    jbtibor said:

    I don't know if it was this update or another but here are my issues.
    1. Can't find where to set 24h clock?
    2. No list view for recordings. The view with images is cluttered.
    3. After watching a recording both stop and back buttons open recordings page instead the page for the show I was watching so I have to open show details again and scroll through all recorded episodes.
    4. Recordings whithin a show are sorted oldest to newest so I have to scroll a lot to find latest. Should be sorted newest to oldest.

    Indeed, if they can deliver 2 and 4, as redchiz notes, then doing 1 and 3 plus a binge watch mode would be good for completeness. So far YouView have certainly left themselves with plenty of room for improvement having only really just got out of the starting blocks with the first few feature tweaks ;-)
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 4:23PM
    Visionman said:

    I've been in a very dark mood about YV 2.0 for a while now. But I owe a YouView staffer an apology.
    Steven, I apologise. You got my bite, but it was me, not you. And you have my respect.
    And yes Roy, carousels are possible, and so are HTML5 graphics as well with this platform.
    So many options! But which will they take?
    DEEP THOUGHT....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZLtcTZP2js 

    Can you please stop referring to 2.0, that sounds like a real release number, but of course bears no relation to the actual release numbers.
  • stokesd3stokesd3 Member Posts: 137
    edited 14 May 2017, 4:34PM
    stokesd3 said:

    The jump from v27 to v28 implies major updates but I'm guessing not. Surely by now it should be putting you back into the series folder when stopping a programme. Still no option for more episodes whether upcoming or on demand either? Ugh :P

    Most likely explanation... or maybe they got to 27.99 and thought oh well...
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 14 May 2017, 5:27PM
    Visionman said:

    Keith>
    "A problem though for many deleters is they are not keep-uppers and hence they may say gather in an entire series of 10+ episodes and only then start watching. It was in part this backlog of episodes (which for some people was not just 10 or so but 50+) which led to the general feedback over the last 5-6 months that oldest would be better for more than newest. 

    Ultimately YouView should just put in the relatively small amount of effort needed to:

    • default to oldest (part) unwatched
    • enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted
    • provide an option that allows a user to change the default behaviour to instead be oldest, newest (or the default oldest (part) unwatched)
    • and of course return you to the exact episode tile when you exit a recording (so you can delete it or move on to the next one easily when desired)
    Surely none of that is particularly difficult and it would thus seem easier to give the customer what is needed than it is to field months of negative feedback about rigid and inefficient features (and of course missing ones too) :)"
    Point of note - YouView 2.0 does not take into account 'hoarders'. And neither did or does YV 1.0.
    Second Point of note - nor does any other box, either.
    There are many reasons for this, but the main one is PVRs these days are viewed (by the platform/manufacturer/provider) as temporary storage devices, and not a permanent repository.
    I'm not saying that is right or wrong, I'm just commenting on it and their attitude to it.

    One of your points has tweeked me, and with good reason, and it is this -

    "enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted"
    Amen to that Kieth and thats a point I've hammered home time and again.
    NONE of YV 2.0s features have a carousel action, which is a big miss and in my view a big, big, fault.
    User lands on the oldest episode (or newest, or last unwatched, or what the hell ever) and then has the option to flick left. Or right. Or even up and down.
    Hm. Its a huge hole and it needs to be filled....
    As my mother used to say when I was a kid - "If they jumped over a cliff, would you?". Justifying poor user experience by referencing other kit is, IMHO, not sensible. If you followed that to its end point, every box could descend to the worst functionality out there. Surely, if "none of the other boxes" provide a particular function, it doesn't mean that that functionality is not desirable - it just means that the UI of most boxes is below par. 

    I totally agree with all of Keith's 4 points, and suspect that the majority of unhappy members on this forum would welcome them as well. Could be the start of turn the tide turning (which it badly needs to do...)

    And I particularly support his statement "Surely none of that is particularly difficult"! Of course, when I agree with this statement, I am purely referring to the technical effort required to implement the necessary code changes. As we are all aware, there are other more powerful factors at work at YouView Towers which may make such changes not just difficult, but impossible. (q.v. the release of NextGen)
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 14 May 2017, 5:33PM
    Visionman said:

    I've been in a very dark mood about YV 2.0 for a while now. But I owe a YouView staffer an apology.
    Steven, I apologise. You got my bite, but it was me, not you. And you have my respect.
    And yes Roy, carousels are possible, and so are HTML5 graphics as well with this platform.
    So many options! But which will they take?
    DEEP THOUGHT....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZLtcTZP2js 

    Surely, VM, you are not suggesting that the current YouView box designs its successor, are you?
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 5:36PM
    Visionman said:

    Keith>
    "A problem though for many deleters is they are not keep-uppers and hence they may say gather in an entire series of 10+ episodes and only then start watching. It was in part this backlog of episodes (which for some people was not just 10 or so but 50+) which led to the general feedback over the last 5-6 months that oldest would be better for more than newest. 

    Ultimately YouView should just put in the relatively small amount of effort needed to:

    • default to oldest (part) unwatched
    • enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted
    • provide an option that allows a user to change the default behaviour to instead be oldest, newest (or the default oldest (part) unwatched)
    • and of course return you to the exact episode tile when you exit a recording (so you can delete it or move on to the next one easily when desired)
    Surely none of that is particularly difficult and it would thus seem easier to give the customer what is needed than it is to field months of negative feedback about rigid and inefficient features (and of course missing ones too) :)"
    Point of note - YouView 2.0 does not take into account 'hoarders'. And neither did or does YV 1.0.
    Second Point of note - nor does any other box, either.
    There are many reasons for this, but the main one is PVRs these days are viewed (by the platform/manufacturer/provider) as temporary storage devices, and not a permanent repository.
    I'm not saying that is right or wrong, I'm just commenting on it and their attitude to it.

    One of your points has tweeked me, and with good reason, and it is this -

    "enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted"
    Amen to that Kieth and thats a point I've hammered home time and again.
    NONE of YV 2.0s features have a carousel action, which is a big miss and in my view a big, big, fault.
    User lands on the oldest episode (or newest, or last unwatched, or what the hell ever) and then has the option to flick left. Or right. Or even up and down.
    Hm. Its a huge hole and it needs to be filled....
    Honestly, it is the use of the word "surely" in that context which I find particularly unsupportable. Unless you are an expert with a proven track record in coding specifically for YouView boxes, or similar. Please don't start about other non-relevant IT expertise, it is as long as it is wide. I'm quite good at spreadsheets btw.
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 14 May 2017, 5:52PM
    Visionman said:

    Keith>
    "A problem though for many deleters is they are not keep-uppers and hence they may say gather in an entire series of 10+ episodes and only then start watching. It was in part this backlog of episodes (which for some people was not just 10 or so but 50+) which led to the general feedback over the last 5-6 months that oldest would be better for more than newest. 

    Ultimately YouView should just put in the relatively small amount of effort needed to:

    • default to oldest (part) unwatched
    • enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted
    • provide an option that allows a user to change the default behaviour to instead be oldest, newest (or the default oldest (part) unwatched)
    • and of course return you to the exact episode tile when you exit a recording (so you can delete it or move on to the next one easily when desired)
    Surely none of that is particularly difficult and it would thus seem easier to give the customer what is needed than it is to field months of negative feedback about rigid and inefficient features (and of course missing ones too) :)"
    Point of note - YouView 2.0 does not take into account 'hoarders'. And neither did or does YV 1.0.
    Second Point of note - nor does any other box, either.
    There are many reasons for this, but the main one is PVRs these days are viewed (by the platform/manufacturer/provider) as temporary storage devices, and not a permanent repository.
    I'm not saying that is right or wrong, I'm just commenting on it and their attitude to it.

    One of your points has tweeked me, and with good reason, and it is this -

    "enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted"
    Amen to that Kieth and thats a point I've hammered home time and again.
    NONE of YV 2.0s features have a carousel action, which is a big miss and in my view a big, big, fault.
    User lands on the oldest episode (or newest, or last unwatched, or what the hell ever) and then has the option to flick left. Or right. Or even up and down.
    Hm. Its a huge hole and it needs to be filled....
    To be perfectly honest, Redchiz, I don't seek your support.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 5:52PM
    Visionman said:

    Keith>
    "A problem though for many deleters is they are not keep-uppers and hence they may say gather in an entire series of 10+ episodes and only then start watching. It was in part this backlog of episodes (which for some people was not just 10 or so but 50+) which led to the general feedback over the last 5-6 months that oldest would be better for more than newest. 

    Ultimately YouView should just put in the relatively small amount of effort needed to:

    • default to oldest (part) unwatched
    • enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted
    • provide an option that allows a user to change the default behaviour to instead be oldest, newest (or the default oldest (part) unwatched)
    • and of course return you to the exact episode tile when you exit a recording (so you can delete it or move on to the next one easily when desired)
    Surely none of that is particularly difficult and it would thus seem easier to give the customer what is needed than it is to field months of negative feedback about rigid and inefficient features (and of course missing ones too) :)"
    Point of note - YouView 2.0 does not take into account 'hoarders'. And neither did or does YV 1.0.
    Second Point of note - nor does any other box, either.
    There are many reasons for this, but the main one is PVRs these days are viewed (by the platform/manufacturer/provider) as temporary storage devices, and not a permanent repository.
    I'm not saying that is right or wrong, I'm just commenting on it and their attitude to it.

    One of your points has tweeked me, and with good reason, and it is this -

    "enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted"
    Amen to that Kieth and thats a point I've hammered home time and again.
    NONE of YV 2.0s features have a carousel action, which is a big miss and in my view a big, big, fault.
    User lands on the oldest episode (or newest, or last unwatched, or what the hell ever) and then has the option to flick left. Or right. Or even up and down.
    Hm. Its a huge hole and it needs to be filled....
    Perhaps a fair point to say that saying 'surely' is not the most reasoned response I could have written (although one could consider it is just expressing an opinion even if as you note it is based on insufficient direct insight) :)

    I would of course happily sit down with Piers, Stephen or others at YouView Towers to look at the relevant chunk of code (or some mocked up pseudo code) and engage in related discussions so I can gain a better understanding of why it is not as easy as I expect it would be (not that one could really expect a commercial company to sit down with customers 1-1 for such review). I'm not sure what would be better to see - that it is easy but not being done or that it is hard and thus that the likelihood of what appear to be small changes coming through quickly is after all not likely to be quick ;-)
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 5:54PM
    Visionman said:

    Keith>
    "A problem though for many deleters is they are not keep-uppers and hence they may say gather in an entire series of 10+ episodes and only then start watching. It was in part this backlog of episodes (which for some people was not just 10 or so but 50+) which led to the general feedback over the last 5-6 months that oldest would be better for more than newest. 

    Ultimately YouView should just put in the relatively small amount of effort needed to:

    • default to oldest (part) unwatched
    • enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted
    • provide an option that allows a user to change the default behaviour to instead be oldest, newest (or the default oldest (part) unwatched)
    • and of course return you to the exact episode tile when you exit a recording (so you can delete it or move on to the next one easily when desired)
    Surely none of that is particularly difficult and it would thus seem easier to give the customer what is needed than it is to field months of negative feedback about rigid and inefficient features (and of course missing ones too) :)"
    Point of note - YouView 2.0 does not take into account 'hoarders'. And neither did or does YV 1.0.
    Second Point of note - nor does any other box, either.
    There are many reasons for this, but the main one is PVRs these days are viewed (by the platform/manufacturer/provider) as temporary storage devices, and not a permanent repository.
    I'm not saying that is right or wrong, I'm just commenting on it and their attitude to it.

    One of your points has tweeked me, and with good reason, and it is this -

    "enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted"
    Amen to that Kieth and thats a point I've hammered home time and again.
    NONE of YV 2.0s features have a carousel action, which is a big miss and in my view a big, big, fault.
    User lands on the oldest episode (or newest, or last unwatched, or what the hell ever) and then has the option to flick left. Or right. Or even up and down.
    Hm. Its a huge hole and it needs to be filled....
    To be perfectly honest @churchwarden I wasn't talking to you.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 5:55PM
    Visionman said:

    Keith>
    "A problem though for many deleters is they are not keep-uppers and hence they may say gather in an entire series of 10+ episodes and only then start watching. It was in part this backlog of episodes (which for some people was not just 10 or so but 50+) which led to the general feedback over the last 5-6 months that oldest would be better for more than newest. 

    Ultimately YouView should just put in the relatively small amount of effort needed to:

    • default to oldest (part) unwatched
    • enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted
    • provide an option that allows a user to change the default behaviour to instead be oldest, newest (or the default oldest (part) unwatched)
    • and of course return you to the exact episode tile when you exit a recording (so you can delete it or move on to the next one easily when desired)
    Surely none of that is particularly difficult and it would thus seem easier to give the customer what is needed than it is to field months of negative feedback about rigid and inefficient features (and of course missing ones too) :)"
    Point of note - YouView 2.0 does not take into account 'hoarders'. And neither did or does YV 1.0.
    Second Point of note - nor does any other box, either.
    There are many reasons for this, but the main one is PVRs these days are viewed (by the platform/manufacturer/provider) as temporary storage devices, and not a permanent repository.
    I'm not saying that is right or wrong, I'm just commenting on it and their attitude to it.

    One of your points has tweeked me, and with good reason, and it is this -

    "enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted"
    Amen to that Kieth and thats a point I've hammered home time and again.
    NONE of YV 2.0s features have a carousel action, which is a big miss and in my view a big, big, fault.
    User lands on the oldest episode (or newest, or last unwatched, or what the hell ever) and then has the option to flick left. Or right. Or even up and down.
    Hm. Its a huge hole and it needs to be filled....
    Keith, totally understood.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 6:34PM
    Visionman said:

    I've been in a very dark mood about YV 2.0 for a while now. But I owe a YouView staffer an apology.
    Steven, I apologise. You got my bite, but it was me, not you. And you have my respect.
    And yes Roy, carousels are possible, and so are HTML5 graphics as well with this platform.
    So many options! But which will they take?
    DEEP THOUGHT....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZLtcTZP2js 

    No, nothing of the kind, CW. As this is a completely new platform that isn't finished. 
    I'm not happy with that and so have decided to say so. 
    I disagree with the disagree as is, as its a joke.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,647 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 8:18PM
    Visionman said:

    I've been in a very dark mood about YV 2.0 for a while now. But I owe a YouView staffer an apology.
    Steven, I apologise. You got my bite, but it was me, not you. And you have my respect.
    And yes Roy, carousels are possible, and so are HTML5 graphics as well with this platform.
    So many options! But which will they take?
    DEEP THOUGHT....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZLtcTZP2js 

    For myself, NextGen is a self-inflicted wound, and only a flesh wound, that won't even need stitches.

    I did think it might have healed up by now though :-(

    I'm spitting furious, though, on behalf of all the people who have had NextGen wished on them unbidden, and largely unannounced.

    Those who would have elected to wait until NextGen was more finished should have been given that option.

    No question.
    I have a low opinion of people who press the Disagree button instead of engaging in reasoned debate. 
    I have an even lower opinion of YouView’s continued policy of letting such people hide behind the cloak of anonymity.
  • jbtiborjbtibor Member Posts: 14
    edited 14 May 2017, 8:21PM
    Visionman said:

    Keith>
    "A problem though for many deleters is they are not keep-uppers and hence they may say gather in an entire series of 10+ episodes and only then start watching. It was in part this backlog of episodes (which for some people was not just 10 or so but 50+) which led to the general feedback over the last 5-6 months that oldest would be better for more than newest. 

    Ultimately YouView should just put in the relatively small amount of effort needed to:

    • default to oldest (part) unwatched
    • enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted
    • provide an option that allows a user to change the default behaviour to instead be oldest, newest (or the default oldest (part) unwatched)
    • and of course return you to the exact episode tile when you exit a recording (so you can delete it or move on to the next one easily when desired)
    Surely none of that is particularly difficult and it would thus seem easier to give the customer what is needed than it is to field months of negative feedback about rigid and inefficient features (and of course missing ones too) :)"
    Point of note - YouView 2.0 does not take into account 'hoarders'. And neither did or does YV 1.0.
    Second Point of note - nor does any other box, either.
    There are many reasons for this, but the main one is PVRs these days are viewed (by the platform/manufacturer/provider) as temporary storage devices, and not a permanent repository.
    I'm not saying that is right or wrong, I'm just commenting on it and their attitude to it.

    One of your points has tweeked me, and with good reason, and it is this -

    "enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted"
    Amen to that Kieth and thats a point I've hammered home time and again.
    NONE of YV 2.0s features have a carousel action, which is a big miss and in my view a big, big, fault.
    User lands on the oldest episode (or newest, or last unwatched, or what the hell ever) and then has the option to flick left. Or right. Or even up and down.
    Hm. Its a huge hole and it needs to be filled....
    Point of note - YouView 2.0 does not take into account 'hoarders'. And neither did or does YV 1.0. 
    They released a 1TB version of the box and who else would need 1TB than a hoarder? That's 200+ hours of HD content so the software should support this.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 8:25PM
    Re pure retail users - YouView had no way of communicating with them, hence why it happened.
    Not pretty, I know. 
    I disagree with the disagree as is, as its a joke.
  • jbtiborjbtibor Member Posts: 14
    edited 14 May 2017, 8:26PM
    Visionman said:

    Keith>
    "A problem though for many deleters is they are not keep-uppers and hence they may say gather in an entire series of 10+ episodes and only then start watching. It was in part this backlog of episodes (which for some people was not just 10 or so but 50+) which led to the general feedback over the last 5-6 months that oldest would be better for more than newest. 

    Ultimately YouView should just put in the relatively small amount of effort needed to:

    • default to oldest (part) unwatched
    • enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted
    • provide an option that allows a user to change the default behaviour to instead be oldest, newest (or the default oldest (part) unwatched)
    • and of course return you to the exact episode tile when you exit a recording (so you can delete it or move on to the next one easily when desired)
    Surely none of that is particularly difficult and it would thus seem easier to give the customer what is needed than it is to field months of negative feedback about rigid and inefficient features (and of course missing ones too) :)"
    Point of note - YouView 2.0 does not take into account 'hoarders'. And neither did or does YV 1.0.
    Second Point of note - nor does any other box, either.
    There are many reasons for this, but the main one is PVRs these days are viewed (by the platform/manufacturer/provider) as temporary storage devices, and not a permanent repository.
    I'm not saying that is right or wrong, I'm just commenting on it and their attitude to it.

    One of your points has tweeked me, and with good reason, and it is this -

    "enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted"
    Amen to that Kieth and thats a point I've hammered home time and again.
    NONE of YV 2.0s features have a carousel action, which is a big miss and in my view a big, big, fault.
    User lands on the oldest episode (or newest, or last unwatched, or what the hell ever) and then has the option to flick left. Or right. Or even up and down.
    Hm. Its a huge hole and it needs to be filled....
    Unless you are an expert with a proven track record in coding specifically for YouView boxes
    They do html 5, so it's no different than an average website. There's also an API the frontend talks to, but we know it's possible there as well because it worked in previous versions. Also, we are talking about sorting, a feature built into almost all programming languages currently on the market, and even if it wouldn't be it really shouldn't take more than 30 minutes for a junior to implement it. Yes I know it needs planning, UX design, testing, showcase, deployment so it's not 30 minutes to get it onto a live box, but it's definitely a small effort.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 8:39PM
    Visionman said:

    Keith>
    "A problem though for many deleters is they are not keep-uppers and hence they may say gather in an entire series of 10+ episodes and only then start watching. It was in part this backlog of episodes (which for some people was not just 10 or so but 50+) which led to the general feedback over the last 5-6 months that oldest would be better for more than newest. 

    Ultimately YouView should just put in the relatively small amount of effort needed to:

    • default to oldest (part) unwatched
    • enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted
    • provide an option that allows a user to change the default behaviour to instead be oldest, newest (or the default oldest (part) unwatched)
    • and of course return you to the exact episode tile when you exit a recording (so you can delete it or move on to the next one easily when desired)
    Surely none of that is particularly difficult and it would thus seem easier to give the customer what is needed than it is to field months of negative feedback about rigid and inefficient features (and of course missing ones too) :)"
    Point of note - YouView 2.0 does not take into account 'hoarders'. And neither did or does YV 1.0.
    Second Point of note - nor does any other box, either.
    There are many reasons for this, but the main one is PVRs these days are viewed (by the platform/manufacturer/provider) as temporary storage devices, and not a permanent repository.
    I'm not saying that is right or wrong, I'm just commenting on it and their attitude to it.

    One of your points has tweeked me, and with good reason, and it is this -

    "enable wrap around so one can move from the oldest to the newest when wanted"
    Amen to that Kieth and thats a point I've hammered home time and again.
    NONE of YV 2.0s features have a carousel action, which is a big miss and in my view a big, big, fault.
    User lands on the oldest episode (or newest, or last unwatched, or what the hell ever) and then has the option to flick left. Or right. Or even up and down.
    Hm. Its a huge hole and it needs to be filled....
    No.
    I disagree with the disagree as is, as its a joke.
  • jbtiborjbtibor Member Posts: 14
    edited 14 May 2017, 9:17PM
    Re pure retail users - YouView had no way of communicating with them, hence why it happened.
    I have mine from BT, I'm still a BT customer yet I didn't get any notification. We were away for a few weeks and the new version has been there when we got home.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭
    edited 15 May 2017, 12:34AM
    One could easily argue YouView have a means to communicate with all end users who keep their box networked, i.e. deploy a minor software update (although of course I have no sight of the code to know whether this is as easy as I think or not) that has a small feature to display a message on the screen for 15 seconds from time to time until the user explicitly acknowledges it and it saves the fact they have thus received the message (which would of course tell them something big and exciting is coming soon and ideally direct them to further info online).

    One could hardly though expect YouView to put in that message that some people may not like what is coming, may find some much loved and key (to some) features are absent, there will be a few fresh problems and surprises awaiting, and that perhaps 6 months after one gets the update very little will have changed ;-)

    That said, on this forum whilst the bulk of the feedback has been of a negative nature it only amounts to about 1000 users feedback out of a user base of around 2.5m. Some may wish to try to extrapolate that this is the tip of an iceberg whilst others may wish to say even if it scaled up it would still ultimately only come to a minority of users. We alas will probably never know but when (hopefully not if) things improve then it largely does not matter :)

    On a positive note hopefully the roll out is very close to complete and we will see some bigger progress soon that continues on from the small tweaks recently seen.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭
    edited 15 May 2017, 12:34AM
    Roy>
    "For myself, NextGen is a self-inflicted wound, and only a flesh wound, that won't even need stitches.
    I did think it might have healed up by now though :-("
    Just for completeness, I'm going to be very careful what I say here.
    27.50 was and is a completely unplanned update that arose purely from the feedback on here. And only arose because of the feedback on here. The next update will to a large part address the rest of it.
    Maybe....
    I disagree with the disagree as is, as its a joke.
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 14 May 2017, 11:16PM
    Visionman said:

    I've been in a very dark mood about YV 2.0 for a while now. But I owe a YouView staffer an apology.
    Steven, I apologise. You got my bite, but it was me, not you. And you have my respect.
    And yes Roy, carousels are possible, and so are HTML5 graphics as well with this platform.
    So many options! But which will they take?
    DEEP THOUGHT....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZLtcTZP2js 

    "No, nothing of the kind, CW. As this is a completely new platform that isn't finished."

    I was attempting to be humourous/ironic VM relating to your very relevant video link. When the 'priests' were unhappy with Deep Thought's answer - 42 - it offered to create an even more powerful computer for them....
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 11:29PM
    Visionman said:

    I've been in a very dark mood about YV 2.0 for a while now. But I owe a YouView staffer an apology.
    Steven, I apologise. You got my bite, but it was me, not you. And you have my respect.
    And yes Roy, carousels are possible, and so are HTML5 graphics as well with this platform.
    So many options! But which will they take?
    DEEP THOUGHT....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZLtcTZP2js 

    Forgive me my friend, but the mood on here is very dark at the moment. Or just I am.
    But yes, a box destining and designing a future box. Heck, thats what I thought they were doing. I am not happy. :(
    I disagree with the disagree as is, as its a joke.
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