DTR-T2100 permanently accessing internet, I think!

Connection to the T2100 is by Devolo 85Mbs homeplugs. Until recently, this setup has worked ok, but I now note that the Devolo units are showing that the T2100 appears to be accessing (presumably) the internet on a permanent basis. To put it another way, the lights are showing much data transmission. Don't know when it started, but if it helps, we had a planned power cut last Thursday, and problem only noticed since then, over the last 2 or 3 days.
Device info: Humax DTRT2100. Variant 84B08500. Component S/w: 3.3.62 (fa13d7). Manufacturers s/w: 29.27.0. ISP configuration: 2143. Last Update & check 20.11.17.
Manual update fails for update players & apps, and yes, I am aware that there is a problem with this.
I'm on BT Infinity with unlimited data etc. Not sure what speed I'm working at but have recently been upgraded towards 75Mbs. Using HomeHub 5 Type A.
I've powered down the T2100 for a while, but no different. Box seems to be working otherwise, but not bothered testing every little thing as all I'm really interested in are the saved recordings.

Is this a known problem? Or do I have faulty T2100?

CaptainMintMan
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Comments

  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,526Member ✭✭✭
    Hi CaptainMintMan, I'm not sure what you mean here, YouView boxes do access the internet on a permanent basis assuming they are connected, otherwise many of the features of the box won't work. How your homeplugs behave is another matter, perhaps there is an issue there?
  • Sorry, I'll try to explain better.
    Normally, the homeplugs just sit there in a ready state with very little activity, just the occasional light flash to show that they are on standby. As of now, they are flashing merrily thus indicating the passage of data, and as the T2100 is the only device connected to the lan at the moment, then it shows that the T2100 is transmitting/receiving data which I assume is to/from the internet. Switch off the T2100 and the homeplugs immediately go into standby mode.
    Does that help?

    You are, of course, quite correct in that the T1200 uses the internet to gain access to all the non-air services, and hence does have a permanent connection, but it never used to appear to be transmitting/receiving data all the time.

    CaptainMintMan
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,526Member ✭✭✭
    Does that help?

    Kind of, but there still doesn't seem to be anything wrong here, does there? Have you checked with Devolo, or a powerline/homeplug forum, if there is such a thing?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,762Member ✭✭✭
    The designation 85Mbs does not lead to a model description on the Devolo site, but on both the 500 and 1200 models, the description of the lights does not seem to indicate data transmission, just that such transmission is freely possible.

    But if I am wrong, can you point me to where on the Devolo website I can read the manual for your homeplugs, and where this describes the way the lights show that data transmission is occurring?

    But even if you can find such a thing, you have only to look at the lights on the Ethernet port of the YouView box to realise there is constant transmission going on, though only perhaps of keep-alive and broadcast packets exchanged with the router.

    So the interesting question is why the change since the power cut? If this were my BT PLAs, the answer would be that you can press a button on either PLA to inhibit the LED display, a setting which is lost if they are power cycled, unless you press the button again.

    Could something similar be the case here?
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • Everything does indeed appear to be working correctly, except for the excessive data transmission. And that's why I'm querying it. I could understand it if it went on for a few hours, but a few days? Somehow, I don't think it is quite right. And although I'm on unlimited bandwidth, I wouldn't want to have this going on if I was on limited bandwidth.

    Cap.
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,526Member ✭✭✭
    How are you measuring the excessive data transmission?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,762Member ✭✭✭
    edited 21 November 2017, 8:22AM
    Everything does indeed appear to be working correctly, except for the excessive data transmission. And that's why I'm querying it. I could understand it if it went on for a few hours, but a few days? Somehow, I don't think it is quite right. And although I'm on unlimited bandwidth, I wouldn't want to have this going on if I was on limited bandwidth.

    Cap.
    As I requested above, can you please can you state exactly what model of Devolos you are using?

    From the manual for the 500s:-
      
    3.3 Functions

    The dLAN 500 duo has a monitoring light (LED), two network jacks and an encryption button.

    Monitoring light

    The monitoring light (LED) shows all of the statuses for the dLAN 500 duo by illuminating and/or flashing in different ways:
     
     The LED flashes at uniform intervals (of 2s) if the dLAN 500 duo is connected to the mains supply but there is no dLAN connection. 

     The LED lights up if the dLAN 500 duo is ready to operate and there is a dLAN connection.

      The LED flashes quickly if the encryption process (pairing) is being performed in the dLAN network.

      The LED flashes at irregular intervals (0.5 s/2 s) if the dLAN 500 duo is in PowerSave mode.

    None of this suggests that the light can flash to indicate data transmission - are you sure it is not one of the above you are seeing?  
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • I have also seen this on my BT 2100 youview box since update to 29.27.0 software last week.
    Setup is xbox and youview connected to a dlink switch, led on switch for youview box flashing 24/7 even in standby never did it before.
  • My Devolo units are quite, if not very, old. They are what I suppose could be called the 2nd generation units (Devolo 85Mbps HighSpeed), and I have two versions at that. On the older version I have 6 lights: ETH - 100/Act, 10/Act, dLan -Col, Power, Act, Link. Of these, Power & Link are steady whilst 100/Act & Act are flashing. Remove the Ethernet connection and the flashing stops other than an occasional flash on the Act light.
    The info is available on the devolo site, but I have to go out now so I'll look later.
    Measurement of data speed is by visual means, ie the data light is flashing merrily!
    I note that there is a Linux support suite on Devolo which intimates that it can give more info. I need to find out how to install it etc.
    Watch this space.
    CaptainMintMan
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,762Member ✭✭✭
    My Devolo units are quite, if not very, old. They are what I suppose could be called the 2nd generation units (Devolo 85Mbps HighSpeed), and I have two versions at that. On the older version I have 6 lights: ETH - 100/Act, 10/Act, dLan -Col, Power, Act, Link. Of these, Power & Link are steady whilst 100/Act & Act are flashing. Remove the Ethernet connection and the flashing stops other than an occasional flash on the Act light.
    The info is available on the devolo site, but I have to go out now so I'll look later.
    Measurement of data speed is by visual means, ie the data light is flashing merrily!
    I note that there is a Linux support suite on Devolo which intimates that it can give more info. I need to find out how to install it etc.
    Watch this space.
    CaptainMintMan
    Well, I found the manual for the three-lights version, though not the six-lights one, And yes, it indeed does describe the lights flashing when data is being transmitted.

    I wonder why Devolo stopped showing data transmission in its later models, though? Do you think it might have been because it was worrying people unnecessarily?  :p

    Even if there is data being transmitted, though, it may be going no further than your router. Has that got a flashing light for data actually going out to the internet? If you pull the telephone link momentarily off the router, thus cutting off the internet, does this make any difference to what the Devolos are showing?
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • Just disconnected the data cable to youview box and led stopped flashing reconnected and led flashing .
    I have 3 youview boxes but unable to easily check other 2 as connected to dlink powerlines with non flashing leds.
    Can somebody from youview comment on this please.
  • Just checked the bt 2200 youview box also on 29.27.0 software and led on the ethernet port flashing all the time.
  • SarahSarah Posts: 658Administrator admin
    edited 21 November 2017, 12:23PM
    Hi @CaptainMintMan

    The Powerline lights flashing does usually indicate a flow back and forth of data but as mentioned above, this also might be a particular feature of the PLA you are using.

    Can you let us know if you've noticed any change to your data usage since observing this change i.e. has it increased. To our knowledge this is not a known problem. The Next Gen UI is more reliant on data as it uses the cloud to generate images so technically when the box is on, there will be a communication back and forth with the internet as a necessity of its design.

    We'll query this further with the team to check :) 

    Thanks,

    Sarah

  • Hi folks,
    This is my setup:

    I'm using what I will call 2nd generation of Devolo powerline units, 1st generation being the original 14Mbps units. 2nd generation are 85Mbps and are compatible with 1st generation albeit at 1st generation speeds. I have no 1st generation units.

    Also, Devolo have two versions of these 85Mbps units, the earlier one having 6 lights and the later having 3 lights. I have one later version which I've used as the "master" unit, ie the one connected to the router. I also have three older versions, all with six lights and these are used: one connected to the T2100 box; one connected to my "backup" computer; and one for use elsewhere in the house as required, eg my youngest when he comes to visit. Under normal conditions, the T2100 is effectively permanently connected whilst the other two are only connected as and when required, hence in effect the T2100 has sole use of the system 24/7.

    My main computer is directly connected to the router, a BT Homehub5 Type A. The "master" Devolo unit is at the side of me and hence readily seen.

    When I first got the T2100, three years ago???, BT, understandably wanted to sell me their latest 500Mps (???) units, but as I had the 85Mps units spare, I decided to try them first as I saw no point in buying new if the existing stuff would work. And work they did. And in fact other than a hiccup on the T2100 perhaps a couple of years ago, they have worked very well indeed.

    To be continued

    Cap
  • Continued:
    I've done a few tests - hope they make sense. Reference to lights refers always to the "master" 85Mbps unit.

    1. Everything except the "master" 85Mbps unit disconnected, ie unplugged.
    T2100 unhappy - seems to require internet access even though playback of recordings, and aerial reception satisfactory.
    "Master" unit had an orange light signifying standby mode, however, I do not know how long it takes to go into this mode, or if it goes into this mode when ethernet disconnected - which it accidently was.
    With ethernet reconnected:
           Power light was permanently green
           ETH light intermittent green every 2 secs or so.
           dLAN light fully green except when ETH went green.
    In other words ETH & dLAN slow flash.

    2. Backup computer connection.
    Essentially as expected either all lights green with ETH/dLAN flashing every 2 secs plus rapid flash when computer accessing internet.

    3. 85Mbps unit used for T2100 access plugged in but T2100 ethernet lead disconnected. Backup computer completely disconnected.
    As expected all lights green on "master" unit, with flash every 2 secs. Occasional burst of activity which I assume is when units do a test call to see what's going on.

    4.  T2100 plugged in but on fast start standby. Nothing else connected.
    Initial flurry of data, then stopped for a while, then more or less continuous data transmission.

    5 T2100 switched on. Nothing else connected.
    More or less continuous data transmission. T2100 now happy as internet connected - see 1 above.

    To be continued.

    Cap.


  • CaptainMintManCaptainMintMan Posts: 13Member
    edited 21 November 2017, 4:08PM
    Final comment.
    Apparently, there is some software available which will allow me to monitor what's going on with the Devolo units. Unfortunately, I'm on Linux Mint which is based on Ubuntu and whilst there is a version for Ubuntu, I haven't (yet) been able to get it to work on Mint. I shall investigate further.

    Roy,
    I haven't yet tried disconnecting the telephone line. I will do so and report back.

    Sarah,
    I know of no way of checking my data usage. I used to be able to do so on ADSL, but now that I'm on BT's unlimited Infinity, all I get is "You are on unlimited bandwidth so don't need to know!" Or words to that effect.
    Having said that, I don't like it. Although your explanation may well be the answer, it does not seem like good engineering practice as it is using bandwidth unnecessarily. When all said and done, the EPG comes over the aerial, and whilst the extra channels, and their EPG are indeed internet based, surely the only time that internet access is required is when the user actively requests it. Therefore why use something unnecessarily and thus add to the countries power demand (OK, individually the demand is quite small, but add them all together, and then what?), and, incidently, increase my already substantial electric bill!

    Regards
    CaptainMintMan

    ps What does PLA stand for?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 13,762Member ✭✭✭
    PowerLine Adaptor
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • Roy,
    Some answers & thanks (for the PLA).

    No buttons on the PLA units - they start to work as soon as plugged in.
    The later (3 light) units are known as High Speed II 85Mbps. The earlier (6 light) units just as High Speed 85Mbps. The manual etc is available from Devolo as a download.
    Disconnecting the line from the rear of the HomeHub 5. The T2100 is distinctly unhappy! The data rate drops. It seems that the T2100 knows when there ain't no internet and keeps trying until it comes back on, then resumes its data transmission/reception.

    Final thoughts. I can understand that to the unitiated, lots of flashing lights might not be helpful. Plus, of course, it's extra cost. But I like it. Ok, I'm not a comms technician, but I do have some electrical/electronic knowledge which means that I can get some sort of idea as to what's going on. Ironically, as you intimated, had there been no lights, then I wouldn't have known anything about it!

    Sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

    But, in all honesty, I don't like this sort of thing in general, eg when people start telling me to do this, that, and the other. And this, I think, is a typical case whereby the programmers have gone ahead and done something that they want to do with no regard for what the user might want. And I don't like it when "they" do an unwanted upgrade which results in more usage of MY bandwidth. As a matter of interest, Mozilla have recently upgraded Firefox. And again, I've lost what I had before. Why can't "they" leave things alone?

    CaptainMintMan



  • jimbjimb Posts: 953Member ✭✭
    (I might have missed this but...)
    Can you describe what the lights look like when you're watching a Freeview channel, and what they look like if your watching a programme with iPlayer.
  • I haven't specifically checked, but I would think that watching a Freeview channel, ie via the aerial, will be no different to what I've already described. Reason being that the T2100 isn't in use at that time as the TV has its own tuner.
    I can, and have used the T2100 on Freeview. In that situation, again, it will be using the aerial, so it will be no different to what I've already described.
    Watching via iPlayer is something I very seldom do, but from observations elsewhere, eg main computer to backup computer which uses the same network, I would expect the lights to flash rather more than they do at the moment.
    I'll do a check tomorrow when The Mrs is out(can't get to the T2100 at the moment), but I really don't see anything different happening.

    Cap.
  • jimb,
    No noticeable difference in flashing rate - going like **** all the time.
    Cap.

    ps. I mentioned above about some software to see what was happening on the homeplug network. Although with some assistance I managed to download the program, it failed to do anything, indeed it didn't even recognise that I was working via a homeplug. So here endeth that one!
  • SarahSarah Posts: 658Administrator admin
    Hi all,

    Just to let you know that this is still being looked into internally so I'll come back once I have an update regarding this. Thanks for the information provided so far.

    Sarah
  • jimbjimb Posts: 953Member ✭✭
    jimb,
    No noticeable difference in flashing rate... 

    Well I'd say that there is definitely a problem. 
    My powerline adaptors show a clear difference of activity between the two. 
     :/ 
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Posts: 701Member ✭✭✭
    edited 22 November 2017, 2:56PM
    I can't say that I am seeing anything untoward on my Humax Retail box version 29.27.0

    Picture is data flow monitor from my router. In this session the Humax box has local Ip address 192.168.1.154 and the most sessions that were open was 19. These only appear when the guide is open or the YouView menu bar is at the bottom of the screen. As you can see the sessions aren't troubling the data flow as they read and write minuscule amounts of data. After the guide or menu are closed, the sessions close after a minute or two and the entry disappears.



    Then from my syslog monitor. log is of USER info for 192.168.1.154

     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire connected-tv.files.bbci.co.uk
     192.168.1.154:41045 -> 2.16.20.209:80 (TCP)Web
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire images-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154:46727 -> 23.192.163.72:80 (TCP)Web
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire reporting-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154:51260 -> 173.222.211.65:80 (TCP)Web
     192.168.1.154:51260 -> 173.222.211.65:80 (TCP) close connection
     192.168.1.154:46727 -> 23.192.163.72:80 (TCP) close connection
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire feeds-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire feeds-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire feeds-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire feeds-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire feeds-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire feeds-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire feeds-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire feeds-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire feeds-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire feeds-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire feeds-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154:48328 -> 23.192.162.129:80 (TCP)Web
     192.168.1.154:43386 -> 23.192.162.138:80 (TCP)Web
     192.168.1.154:48330 -> 23.192.162.129:80 (TCP)Web
     192.168.1.154:43388 -> 23.192.162.138:80 (TCP)Web
     192.168.1.154:48332 -> 23.192.162.129:80 (TCP)Web
     192.168.1.154:43390 -> 23.192.162.138:80 (TCP)Web
     192.168.1.154:48334 -> 23.192.162.129:80 (TCP)Web
     192.168.1.154:43392 -> 23.192.162.138:80 (TCP)Web
     192.168.1.154:48332 -> 23.192.162.129:80 (TCP) close connection
     192.168.1.154 DNS -> 212.23.6.100 inquire images-live.youview.tv
     192.168.1.154:49677 -> 23.192.163.40:80 (TCP)Web

    Hope this helps

    John.
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • Hi jimb,
    I wonder if it's anything to do with possible speed differences between your setup and mine. Mine's running at supposedly 85Mbps (but probably nearer 25) so if yours happens to be faster than mine....
    Cap.
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,526Member ✭✭✭
    The speed capability of the adapter is irrelevant as long as it is faster than the broadband connection.
  • jimbjimb Posts: 953Member ✭✭
    Hi jimb,
    I wonder if it's anything to do with possible speed differences between your setup and mine. Mine's running at supposedly 85Mbps (but probably nearer 25) so if yours happens to be faster than mine....
    Cap.

    My broadband is 35Mbps, I have no idea what the spec of the PLAs is.
    Watching the lights on the PLAs it looks much what I'd expect when different things happen.
    For example when opening MyTV there's a flurry of activity due to the tiles images loading.

    (I'm certainly not seeing a "flashing rate - going like **** all the time.")
     ;) 
  • Ok, I've perhaps not been clear enough!
    My powerline LAN uses supposedly 85Mbps units which, last time I checked (some years ago) were actually running at about 25Mbps, this being in accordance with Devolo's info which states that the speed will drop according to the distance and how its connected (direct into the mains or via a strip of plugs).
    My broadband, has supposedly recently been upgraded (FOC) towards 75Mbps from 52Mbps, which itself was upgraded from 39Mbps (actual about 38Mbps). Having just done a speed test, I am getting a download speed of 63.6Mbps.
    In theory then, my broadband speed comfortably exceeds the LAN speed. How that relates to TV program display I don't know: what I can say is that on the rare occasions I've used BT TV, it's usually been ok.

    Anaglypta,
    As mentioned earlier, I've no way of checking the effect on Broadband usage. Certainly with the BT Homehub5, I've never seen a display anything like yours, and believe me, I've been into every screen bar one (the Reset screen). It may be there, hidden somewhere, but where??? Which means that I can only assume that the data flow is going somewhere out of the HH5, presumably to line.
    Having said that your comments are much more in line with what I would expect, ie next to, or even nothing, except when actually required.

    Cap.
  • SarahSarah Posts: 658Administrator admin
    edited 24 November 2017, 12:30PM
    Hi @CaptainMintMan

    There's a post over on the BT forums which is the cause of it showing that it's constantly accessing the internet.
    Steve_M at BT also made a post yesterday which goes into a bit more detail on this topic, you can have a read here :)

    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • speedyritespeedyrite Posts: 58Member
    @Sarah @CaptainMintMan and other participants
    Interesting thread. I think I may be seeing the same here, as I can see the PLA whilst watching tv and I was aware that it seemed to be flashing a lot more during viewing recently (but hadn't actually done any investigation).

    I'm *not* a BT Sport subscriber, and I get my phone & broadband service from Sky, but I do use a BT Retail DTR-T2110 YouView recorder.

    So regarding the constant IGMP traffic for the benefit of improvements to recording of BT Sport content on a BT YouView STB, surely this should only be happening for/targetted at BT Sport subscribers (presumably identified and/or initiated from the YouView box itself knowing that the customer has got a BT Sport subscription)? Or is the whole thing "a bit more complicated than that"?
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