[Discussion] TalkTalk software update 72.44.211, 70.44.212 and 60.44.211

Philip TrottPhilip Trott Posts: 1,040Administrator admin
Hi all,

Please feel free to discuss the TalkTalk software update 72.44.211, 70.44.212 and 60.44.211 in this thread.

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  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,297Member ✭✭✭
    It looks faintly absurd to me.

    The YouView Latest Versions page shows two rollouts going on at once, from a single earlier version, for each included Huawei box.

    It’s always been implied, and quite possibly stated, that a new rollout could not start until an existing one had finished, a useful device for explaining why NextGen development is so extended, and updates so widely separated.

    But now, apparently, we learn this is not so.

    But quite apart from that, how does this all work? Do Huawei users who haven’t yet got the first update still get it, and then later get the second, apparently feature-free, one?

    Or is it that all future updates will be to the latest release? And so that latest versions page should actually have dual entries on the left, and the single new update on the right?

    Enquiring minds want to know....
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • Philip TrottPhilip Trott Posts: 1,040Administrator admin
    edited 6 December 2017, 11:19AM
    Hi Roy,

    Thanks for your feedback, I've changed the Latest Versions page to more accurately reflect the release cycle here, you are quite right. For TalkTalk there are two previous versions of software 124/125 and 147/148 both of which have halted rollout. They both contain the same feature set and the later one is an incremental update.

    This latest software 211/212 will be available to all TalkTalk boxes in due course (superseding both) and contains a back-end maintenance fix. I hope this makes it a bit clearer to understand!
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,297Member ✭✭✭
    Enquiring minds have been satisfied - thank you, Phil.
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • StevefStevef Posts: 42Member
    My 372t box froze and would not wake up following this update. A soft reboot and check for latest software worked.
  • JTreasJTreas Posts: 1Member

    I don't know whether it had just updated itself, but my DN370T completely failed yesterday. A soft reboot worked. The same thing happened today and nothing will make it start. After saying waking up for about 10 minutes, the screen just goes black. Any ideas?

  • jimbjimb Posts: 998Member ✭✭
    Apple007 said:
    When will the discover mode  be back?  please do not say soon, we had the word soon ever since the next Gen went live,  with no new features or apps and next gen software came with statement, the next gen will make it easier and quicker for updates and new services to come live,  but nothing has, just the recording menu looks visually better with Pic Icons, but many other companies and smart tv providers have had this way before Youview Next Gen.  Are Youview now slowing down and putting all hope in the development of features and apps to the providers it partner with such as TalkTalk, BT, PLUSNET? why has there been no development of features, apps or the return of discover since the launch of next gen software update, you had big song and dace about this but failed to keep it updated with features and apps or the return of Discover mode, we ask WHY and WHAT IS GOING ON?   
    I think Apple007 is the same as SW007.
    Remember who SW is folks?
  • jimbjimb Posts: 998Member ✭✭
    To be found on Twitter as @SWilkins007
     ;) 
  • Hello,

    My box performed an update last week and since then has had nothing but issues, it freezes and I cannot access the menus, guides, change channel or anything, other than switch it on and off.  It appears to coincide with recordings being made at the same time.  I have performed a software reset and a factory reset keeping the recordings but to no avail, it works again until a certain point and then becomes unresponsive again.  This is now the 7th Youview box I've had, which have been 4 different models by different manufacturers and all of them have ended up in a similar state or worse.  The common denominator in all scenarios was the software, the hardware was different in each case but the symptoms very similar.  When it works I think it's a great bit of software, but it's got to the point now where if the next update doesn't resolve this issue I will be moving away from YouView for good.

    The current device I have is less than 6 months old (DN372T) and was provided by TalkTalk as a replacement to another that broke before it, however I have now left them and cannot have the box replaced.  On previous occasions I have purchased them directly from a retailer until they kept breaking.  At the time I thought it was the hardware, but I no longer believe that to be the case.

    Is there a bug in your backlog for this?  If so when do you plan to address it and when will the release be performed?
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,411Member, Champion mod
    edited 30 March 2018, 11:15AM
    Hi @quantumdefect - it sounds like you have not had a great experience with box reliability.

    You mention your box performed a software update in the last week but, checking on the TalkTalk software updates, the last update for the TalkTalk boxes was released almost 4 months ago. Such a release would normally reach all boxes within a few weeks. The main way an update would not reach a box is if the box is not connected to the network, but I assume you keep your box connected.

    When you say the box did a software update, what was the indicator to you that this had happened (since software updates usually happen in the night and are largely transparent unless a new feature appears). If when you turn the box on it actually comes up with a very simple menu offering options to do a software reset, software reinstall etc, then that would mean the box has experienced a serious error and gone into maintenance mode. This could perhaps happen if there is some issue with the hard disk or overheating etc.

    The relatively poor reliability of the Humax T1xxx boxes is well know. Some people seem fine with them but others experience one or more failure (the worst I recall being someone who had 6 failed boxes). I had 3, each of which never lasted more than 8 months. Moving on to a Humax T2xxx box though was a much better experience. The Humax T2xxx boxes have a very good reliability record. I've not had a TalkTalk/Huawei box but from comments from others they too would seem to generally be very reliable.

    Is you box in a TV cabinet where it may be getting insufficient ventilation. It may be too late to rescue your current box, but if you replace it with a new one then keeping it well ventilated is perhaps the only key suggestion that may mitigate whatever (hardware) issue is befalling the boxes you have had (although they could of course all be suffering different issues and you are just being very very unlucky).
  • Hi @Keith,

    I know it was a software update because I noticed the user interface changed with some subtle UX changes appearing the day of the issues beginning.  The box is well ventilated and has not overheated, it feels relatively warm to touch, not hot.  This is one of the things I check when a device is not responding correctly. 

    With regards to the boxes I have had, I have had a few Humax boxes, I can't recall the first one but it was a 500GB early version of which I had 2, one which was DTRT1000 1TB box, which I had 2 of, a DTR2000 and this Huawei box which I have had 2 of.

    It feels to me more like some form of memory leak or message bus issue when it is recording, once the box starts up it is responsive until the scheduled recordings begin, then very quickly becomes unresponsive.  Similarly, if I am watching Netflix and the box triggers into recordings it will struggle to play the next episode, the menus within Netflix are still responsive until I leave the application, returning to the then it crashes again.  The disk still works because some recordings are succeeding and I can play recordings which have already been recorded.  As I said, the hardware appears to function fine when recordings are not being performed which is why I believe it is software.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,297Member ✭✭✭
    @quantumdefect

    What you describe sounds to me like a failing hard disc - one that can replay, as you describe, but struggles to record, and thus needs the box to carry out heavy buffering, which it can’t quite cope with.

    Bear in mind that a YouView box is always recording at least the channel it is tuned to, so scheduled recordings represent an additional load on the recording capacity, not the only load on it, unless you happen to be making a scheduled recording of the channel you are tuned to.

    This suggests some things you can try to test the above hypothesis. While recording one, two, or three channels at once, listen to the hard drive on the box, and see if you can hear signs of distress, from excessive retries.

    It may be worth trying a Maintenance Mode reset, or resets, of varying degrees of drasticness, which may help with software problems, if that is what you actually have.

    But eating your way through 7 YouView boxes of varying makes and models strongly suggests the common denominator is your environment in some way - dodgy mains, DC (or worse, more mains) on your aerial cable, or some derangement of something you had connected to the boxes - HDMI, SCART, SP/DIF, phono that is out of spec.

    What devices is the YouView box connected to, by the way, make, model, and type of connection? There wouldn’t be a plasma TV in the equation by any chance, would there?

    Assuming that your YouView boxes were installed in accordance with the YouView guidelines - sufficient ventilation, no other boxes stacked above or below the YouView box, careful arrangement of cables to prevent cross-interference, no industrial machinery the other side of the wall, and so on.

    But while you aren’t the only person who has reported the serial failure of a significant number of YouView boxes, there have only been a couple of you, and if this had anything to do with an inherent fault in the YouView software, I think there would have been many more.

    Other than the above, I would have to start hypothesising about interference from parallel universes, which would make my brane hurt 😔 
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • quantumdefectquantumdefect Posts: 4Member
    Hi @Roy,

    I have been in 3 different residences over 5 years where the boxes have been in different environments, all in a well ventilated area connected to different displays, all LED or LCD, none emitting any serious levels heat and all on different aerials, mains connections and electrical supplies.  The drive is still able to record, but the box becomes unresponsive whilst it is doing so, obviously I don't know the architecture of your software but the fact that I can't navigate any menus,  change channel or interact with the box in any way does not really indicate to me that there is a hard drive issue.  Either way, I can't see this being resolved if there isn't even a willingness to accept it could be a software issue on your part.  The only step left for me to do is to perform the factory reset and lose recordings which is a frustrating one.  I can't hear any signs of stress from the hard drive, the only other thing I could do is remove it and run diagnostic and integrity checks on the drive itself,  but at this point, due to the volume of issues I've had with the Youview boxes I'm more inclined to just move away to another provider.


  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,411Member, Champion mod
    Hi @quantumdefect - the extra info above is useful in understanding that your environment has actually been changing and the primary most visible constant is the successive failures of YouView boxes.

    Something worth noting is that this is a community forum and the vast majority of responses you get are thus from other YouView users/customers, which includes Roy and me, rather than from YouView employees (although Sarah or Phil may be able to chip in tomorrow). There is some interaction from YouView staff but if you want a more structured and formal interaction with YouView you may do better to contact them via their formal support centre. See the live chat, phone and email links at the far bottom of https://support.youview.com/

    Based on the many thousands of interactions on this forum I have seen, your experience does seem to be unique (in terms of what is documented here), i.e. failure of numerous boxes ranging across models and manufacturers, with those boxes being in different home environments over time (hence not always the same electrics and perhaps not always the same TV cabinet), and also, given the time span, covering a wide range of the YouView software versions, including the major change from old gen to next gen.

    There are approximately 3 million currently running YouView devices out there now. Over the years there have been a few fairly fundamental software issues (e.g. BFIS, disappearing channels back in 2012/13 as seen in the consolidated list of bugs and faults) but YouView have acknowledged those when they arose and fixed them within a few months. There are certainly many short comings of the software (see the consolidated list of improvements and feature requests) but those are more around features and functions that any fundamental operational issues such as those you are experiencing.

    From the symptoms you describe, my own experience of failing T1000 YouView boxes back in 2013/14, and the various accounts from others over the years, I would tend to say even with the changing factors you have helpfully described it does still seem to point to hardware issues, that ultimately relate to the disk mis-performing but may also come about via overheating and poor quality capacitors (in the T1000 boxes only though).

    Where to go from here though in your position is difficult. If it were me I would feel I have limited confidence that a further new box will resolve the issues, and no expectation that any software change will help either. I would thus either be looking to switch to something like FreeView Play (after reading up on the pros and cons of that), or looking to go with a YouView option that gives me long lasting solid cover, e.g. newly purchased box with a 5 year Richer Sounds warranty or an ISP subscription that would thus cover all replacements at no further cost to me.

  • quantumdefectquantumdefect Posts: 4Member
    Hi @Keith and @Roy,

    My apologies, I failed to notice that you are members of ths community. I agree with you that my situation may seem unique but if you consider the number of people that own a box, most of which are supplied by the television service providers, then consider the number of people who complain about similar issues on support threads and end up having the box replaced and even further those who are unable or unwilling to post on a public forum and instead just have the device replaced, it quickly becomes conceivable that it is not that unique.

    That being said, thanks for your advice on the next communication points. 

    Again, sorry for the accusatory nature of my previous posts, I believed I was being dismissed by Youview representatives. 
  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,411Member, Champion mod
    edited 2 April 2018, 6:09PM
    No problem @quantumdefect, I hope you find a solution as without the issue you are experiencing, and even with the shortcomings of YouView (which I'm always happy to point out to them  ;) ), it is arguably still the best system around (unless you are happy to pay more for some higher priced combination of TV services).
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,297Member ✭✭✭
    edited 3 April 2018, 6:23AM
    Likewise from me @quantumdefect - despite the frequency of my posts, I’m just a Member like you, and not an Administrator like Phil, who started this thread, or Sarah.

    Nonetheless, you must not imagine that every problem reported, and every box failure, is the same issue as yours. Like any modern device dependent on both software and hardware, YouView boxes are fallible, and there have been, and still are, ongoing software issues - BFIS as Keith mentioned, now fixed; an issue where boxes would only record for a few minutes, now also fixed; an issue where boxes in certain areas don’t tune to the expected transmitters and/or record from the wrong ones, causing recording failures, still ongoing; and a couple of other things we have had few, but enough, reports of to know they are issues, but not to know why.

    There’s another common issue we see, when someone reports a bug in an update because their box has gone wrong after the update. But often it isn’t the content of the update at fault - as shown by the many people who get no issues at all with the update - but the fact of the update, which it seems, can sometimes stress boxes to the point of failure. If this is just the software installed slightly awry, then it can often be rectified with a Maintenance Mode reset of the necessary degree of drasticness, but sometimes it seems that the hardware gets stressed to the point of failure. Or maybe there was an issue before that is now exposed - bad memory or disc, never invoked previously, gets used by the update - or some such.

    But the things that cause the total derangement of boxes are pretty much all hardware issues - failed power supplies, faulty hard drives, bad memory, and so on. And while there might possibly be a generic fault that affected all Humax boxes, say, it is pretty unlikely that the Huawei boxes used by TalkTalk would have the same issues for the same reason, there being nothing below the presentation level of the YouView software common to both platforms.

    I daresay a statistician could look at the failure rate of the various YouView  boxes, and calculate how many replacements the average user might expect over, say, five years. And conversely, for any given number of box failures, how many of YouView’s 3 million users might expect those in a given timescale; and you with your seven failures being several sigmas out on the Gaussian curve, but by no means alone.

    But each of those failures being a random event, for one of several possible reasons based on the fallibility of hardware, and not some single cause popping up every time.

    So no solace there.

    But yes, if I’d had six boxes fail on me (I have had one, from that BFIS issue in the early days, and the replacement T1000 I got is still going strong, having had a very good innings of its own, and probably someone else’s share of the reliability pie as well), I’d look elsewhere.

    The FVP5000 perhaps, though that is out of the Humax frying pan and into the Humax fire, so maybe a Panasonic, who seem to be pretty much the only other well-known brand making PVRs these days. Non-subscription ones anyway.
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • SarahSarah Posts: 875Administrator admin
    Hi @quantumdefect

    Can you confirm the software version you're currently running on the box (if you are able to access this section)? It'd be useful to have to relay back to our team as it is quite unusual for a box to update so late on after an update has gone live. You can find this info through Settings > Information & Reset > Software information.

    Thanks a lot,
    Sarah
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