BT and Sky wholesale arrangements for 2019

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  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    Edit post should definitely be available in mobile view. I posted a second post as I could not be bothered to click view desktop site. @sarah I hope you and the team get onto vanilla about this.
  • JoeJoe Member, Super User Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭
    @Daniel thanks I haven’t used the new forum much so was wondering whether I was missing something or not. Really should have the facility to edit easily available like we used to
  • Daniel said:
    If I was that desperate for now tv I wouldn't goto BT or any other company who may become a reseller in future I would get a now TV box or use a Chromecast in the event that retail users get blocked out of the goodies that get added for now TV. I personally find there is more than enough on Netflix in terms of TV and movies and it's fantastic value and there is no way I could watch everything so no need for me to use now TV at present. I recently purchased Amazon prime as well so even more to watch on there along with getting my items next day delivery.
    I wouldn't buy a Now TV box either to be honest. I have a Roku which isn't nobbled by Sky and has thousands of channels available to choose from which will never appear on a Now TV box. There are plenty of hidden gems on a Roku which Sky refuse to entertain on 'their' Roku powered variant (Now TV).
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    Robert said:
    Daniel said:
    If I was that desperate for now tv I wouldn't goto BT or any other company who may become a reseller in future I would get a now TV box or use a Chromecast in the event that retail users get blocked out of the goodies that get added for now TV. I personally find there is more than enough on Netflix in terms of TV and movies and it's fantastic value and there is no way I could watch everything so no need for me to use now TV at present. I recently purchased Amazon prime as well so even more to watch on there along with getting my items next day delivery.
    I wouldn't buy a Now TV box either to be honest. I have a Roku which isn't nobbled by Sky and has thousands of channels available to choose from which will never appear on a Now TV box. There are plenty of hidden gems on a Roku which Sky refuse to entertain on 'their' Roku powered variant (Now TV).
    I do get what you are saying but if price is a factor for some it would be a consideration as they are cheaper than the Roku. Saying that there is one version of a Roku on Amazon for£29 which isn't bad for a streamer. Definitely worth the extra money if you can spare it.
  • AshAsh Member Posts: 264
    edited 17 December 2017, 9:05PM
    Joe said:

    I distinctly remember Netflix being announced like this too. Retail customers were concerned at the time that it would be BT only. We were proved wrong.
    To be honest I can't imagine sky/now TV agreeing to this unless pure retail Youview users also gained full access. @Joe is correct that there was no mention of Netflix be made available on pure retail boxes until very shortly before it actually happened. Remember the media at large always seems to conveniently forget that you view is available without a contract.

    I mean what what NowTV going to do have two different app versions, one for BT users and one for the retail users? I can't see them going for that as it would be a pain in terms of development.

    I wonder what TalkTalk thinks of this development?
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    I can fully see them going for that. Nothing sky do has ever been the easy way to do things where other platforms are concerned.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,089 ✭✭✭
    This does appear to be a mutual wholesale arrangement between BT and Sky, no mention at all of other parties. Remember that TalkTalk already have their own arrangements to carry much more Sky content presently than do BT. None of this is available to retail users.
  • I think you'll find that this is definitely a BT/Sky arrangement ONLY and it won't be appearing on retail Youview boxes  ;)
    @redchiz above is wholly accurate in his assessment of the deal struck.
  • @Ash wrote
    I mean the one thing what I NowTV going to do have two different app versions, one for BT users and one for the retail users? I can't see them going for that as it would be a pain in terms of development.
    I fully expect BT, as part of this agreement between them and Sky, to develop a standalone Now TV app for the BT TV platform.
    After all, Youview have a stripped down Now TV app as it is, (which BT use), so the precedent is there for differing Now TV apps on different platforms so expect to see BT develop, in conjunction with Sky, their own variant of the app.
  • AshAsh Member Posts: 264
    Ash said:
    Joe said:

    I distinctly remember Netflix being announced like this too. Retail customers were concerned at the time that it would be BT only. We were proved wrong.
    To be honest I can't imagine sky/now TV agreeing to this unless pure retail Youview users also gained full access. @Joe is correct that there was no mention of Netflix be made available on pure retail boxes until very shortly before it actually happened. Remember the media at large always seems to conveniently forget that you view is available without a contract.

    I mean what what NowTV going to do have two different app versions, one for BT users and one for the retail users? I can't see them going for that as it would be a pain in terms of development.

    I wonder what TalkTalk thinks of this development?
    That should make more sense now it seems my dictation software is as temperamental as ever and I'm still just as blind as I ever was  :(
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    I can understand why people are bringing up Netflix but to me it's no comparison. Netflix want as many eyeballs on there services as they can get. Sky don't seam to worried about that with there exclusivity of channels which will obviously be no more in 2019 for sky Atlantic and just the general way they run sky on a daily basis. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,813 ✭✭✭
    Keith said:
    Roy said:
    Ash said:
    Yesterday I was trying to post about the kind of video quality people will probably get from now TV on youview when everything goes live. But the some reason the forum wouldn't let me and after about third attempt of trying. I noticed a tiny pop-up in the bottom left corner of the screen saying that my post would appear. Once it had been approved, which is a bit strange.
    I just got the same thing, trying to reply to Daniel, below  :'(

    But this posted perfectly well.

    Maybe because I used a link? Or used the Sky word? No.....

    @Sarah?
    @Roy, @Ash, @Sarah - I would speculate what is going on here is an unintended/unexpected consequence of (Akismet and/or StopForumSpam?) spam filtering which I think Sarah recently tweaked.

    I've not looked in any detail as to how the spam filtering in Vanilla works but hopefully @Sarah can look at the trapped posts, confirm the reason they are held for moderation, e.g. user unverified and post contains an external link (purely speculative guess as to the sort of rule it may apply). If it is something like that and accounts are verified/unverified it would be worth checking that regular user accounts are properly flagged as verified and hence have the expected level of trust.

    The posting of mine you are replying to is one I did, as me, after getting the issue, and the link in it is to the same thing as the link in the one Vanilla would not accept.

    I think this addresses both the issues you speculate about; I am not an unverified user, and Vanilla is not objecting to the link.

    It must have been something else about the posting.

    Anyway, I hope it is waiting to be approved somewhere, as I no longer have it, for posting or investigation, so I do hope Vanilla has not destroyed it.
    Three cheers for reasoned debate, whether for or against
  • JoeJoe Member, Super User Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭
    I think Netflix and amazon are Nowtv’s main competitors. Judging by the amount of devices Nowtv is on already, I’d say they are aiming for market saturation, just as amazon and Netflix are doing.

    I think The Netflix app is very likely the blueprint for how BT handle these big app names on the YouView platform. I think it will be available YouView wide (including retail), with BT offering its customers the convenience of a single inclusive billing as they have done with Netflix.

    The wording of the BT statement does make it sound exclusive to BT customers, but that’s exactly how they announced the launch of Netflix as well. I’ll eat my YouView box and hat if it’s not available to retail users as well. 




  • The wording of the BT statement does make it sound exclusive to BT customers
    As does the wording on Sky's website. They also state https://www.sky.com/help/articles/get-bt-sport-on-sky that it is to appear on BT TV set top boxes with no mention  of Youview boxes. Sky will make our NowTV streaming service available on the BT TV set-top-box. As a retail agent, BT will sell NowTV on Sky’s behalf, offering BT TV customers access to NowTV’s most popular channels including Sky Atlantic, Sky One, Sky Living, Sky Sports and Sky Cinema. I'd imagine part of the deal struck would be for BT to have exclusive rights to the Now TV app which they'll be developing for their platform only.  

  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭
    edited 18 December 2017, 1:49AM
    Joe said:
    I think Netflix and amazon are Nowtv’s main competitors. Judging by the amount of devices Nowtv is on already, I’d say they are aiming for market saturation, just as amazon and Netflix are doing.

    I think The Netflix app is very likely the blueprint for how BT handle these big app names on the YouView platform. I think it will be available YouView wide (including retail), with BT offering its customers the convenience of a single inclusive billing as they have done with Netflix.

    The wording of the BT statement does make it sound exclusive to BT customers, but that’s exactly how they announced the launch of Netflix as well. I’ll eat my YouView box and hat if it’s not available to retail users as well.

    At the moment this is a SKY/BT deal only. No one else is involved. If that changes only time will tell.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    I read on the internet talk talk used to offer now TV a few years ago and the streams got provided over there own IP servers I don't know how true this is as it's a internet forum I read it on but if its been done like this before what's to say it won't be again. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,813 ✭✭✭

    Daniel said:
    If I was that desperate for now tv I wouldn't goto BT or any other company who may become a reseller in future I would get a now TV box or use a Chromecast in the event that retail users get blocked out of the goodies that get added for now TV. I personally find there is more than enough on Netflix in terms of TV and movies and it's fantastic value and there is no way I could watch everything so no need for me to use now TV at present. I recently purchased Amazon prime as well so even more to watch on there along with getting my items next day delivery.
    Fine if you have Sky anyway, as you get pretty much all the Sky stuff on Sky Go. But if not, then NowTV is the third leg of the tripod of non-Freeview access. And a quick calculation shows that even if you only watch a handful of Sky series on Amazon or some other platform, the amount you shell out comes pretty close to what Sky want per year.

    And you have to wait for series like the brilliant Babylon Berlin, currently only available on Sky/NowTV.
    Three cheers for reasoned debate, whether for or against
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,813 ✭✭✭
    edited 18 December 2017, 1:49PM
    Joe said:
    Roy said:
    Joe said:
    Can we no longer edit posts? 
    I edit fine on my iPad. What is your difficulty, exactly?

    Look - edited!
    @Roy the facility to edit a post doesn’t appear to be available when using the iPhone. I’ve had a look at the desktop version and there does appear to be an arrow pointing down in the top right corner of the post to edit, this seems to be absent on the iPhone. Perhaps I’m missing something?

    I've just checked on my wife's iPhone, and you are right - there does seem no way to edit, except via Daniel's workaround. I have had a poke about on the internet (including in the Vanilla documentation where Edit doesn't even seem to feature that I could find), but found nothing useful.

    I find my Android phone has the same drawback :'( 

    @Sarah?
    Three cheers for reasoned debate, whether for or against
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭
    edited 18 December 2017, 3:12PM

    .

    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • AshAsh Member Posts: 264
    Joe said:
    scott said:
    I hope that will be at least 720p for
    Movies and entertainment.
    can’t imagine BT accepting a deal for SD only 
    @Joe @scott
    based on my own experience using NowTV this  on the vast majority of devices that NowTV supports all of the sky, branded channels on NowTV are now streamed at a maximum quality of 720p HD. However, the majority of third-party channels (non-sky, branded ) are SD.

    There streaming quality  help article isn't as clear as it used to be, though , which is a shame

    I can tell you though that certain devices have a quality indicator when streaming (games consoles and smart TV. The maximum quality  when stuff is available in HD is 4865 and this refers to video bit rate , so to be more specific. It's actually 4865Kbps , so that means rounded up. You need a stable Internet connection of at least 5Mbps to get 720p HD. To bring up the quality indicator when streaming on a smart TV or games console, just press and arrow key or select on the remote to bring up the UI overlay and in the top right, you'll see the quality indicator 

  • SarahSarah Administrator Posts: 1,551 admin
    Hi all, In regards to the spam and forum related queries, I've posted about it here.

    Thanks! 
  • JoeJoe Member, Super User Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2017, 11:40PM
    Robert said:
    @Ash wrote
    I mean the one thing what I NowTV going to do have two different app versions, one for BT users and one for the retail users? I can't see them going for that as it would be a pain in terms of development.
    I fully expect BT, as part of this agreement between them and Sky, to develop a standalone Now TV app for the BT TV platform.
    After all, Youview have a stripped down Now TV app as it is, (which BT use), so the precedent is there for differing Now TV apps on different platforms so expect to see BT develop, in conjunction with Sky, their own variant of the app.
    The stripped down version of the nowtv app was due to Youview not implementing the necessary unicast steaming technology ( at least that’s what YouView told the public). I believe Sky/TalkTalk found a work around to get the nowtv streaming channels on YouView TalkTalk boxes as a temporary measure until the full app could be implemented. They used TalkTalk’s multicast network. Press reports seemed to suggest that Sky became frustrated with the large carry costs of using TalkTalk’s multicast network, and eventually pulled the channels. I imagine also frustrated at YouView’s/BT lack of progress on a usable unicast streaming implementation. At least now we know why BT/youview were dragging their heels. 

    To to this day there is still a FAQ in the YouView nowtv app saying that they are working with YouView to bring the live channels soon.

    I don’t think any of us can say for certain whether or not nowtv will be available platform wide, but I find it hard to believe that a service designed to be open and available on as many devices as possible would want to hide behind BT’s paywall. It would spell the end for the open YouView platform. 

    Imagine a YouView where Netflix, amazon, and nowtv were only available to BT users? It seems counter to their ethos. The platform would be dead in the water for retail users, and maybe TalkTalk and plusnet users too.  I can’t see that happening.... Still i’m ready to eat my YouView box and hat, just in case.
  • JoeJoe Member, Super User Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭
    For those who didn't follow the launch of Netflix on Youview and how the BT press presented it initially, heres an old post. With Netflix It took a while for the full story to filter through. This time round we have much more time to speculate!


  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,089 ✭✭✭
    edited 18 December 2017, 7:48PM
    YouView announced that Netflix was going to be available across the platform, despite BT trying to claim it for themselves. With NOW TV no such thing has happened. Although 2019 is a long way away, who knows what might happen?
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭
    Joe>
    "Imagine a YouView where Netflix, amazon, and nowtv were only available to BT users? It seems counter to their ethos. The platform would be dead in the water for retail users, and maybe TalkTalk and plusnet users too.  I can’t see that happening.... Still i’m ready to eat my YouView box and hat, just in case."

    Imagine a YouView where all ten Sky Sports channels were only available to TalkTalk?
    But denied to BT, Plusnet and retail? Oh, wait a minute....

    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • Joe wrote
    I find it hard to believe that a service designed to be open and available on as many devices as possible would want to hide behind BT’s paywall. It would spell the end for the open YouView platform.
    I can't imagine BT not being in a position to go it alone if it wanted to. Those rumours of BT taking over the full Youview operation have never completely went away. Again, whether it happens or not, well that's anyones guess.
    As for hiding behind BTs paywall, it's exactly what Sky have chosen to do with this new multi platform approach. Of course that doesn't stop them launching on retail Youview but without any discounts possibly forthcoming from the new 'merger' of minds at BT/Sky.
    At the end of the day this new deal isn't with Youview, it's with BT.

  • JoeJoe Member, Super User Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2017, 11:43PM
    redchiz said:
    YouView announced that Netflix was going to be available across the platform, despite BT trying to claim it for themselves. With NOW TV no such thing has happened. Although 2019 is a long way away, who knows what might happen?
    Yes it’s a different dynamic with a whole year to wait. If it follows the Netflix pattern then, hopefully other announcements will come from YouView in due course. Visionman said:
    Joe>
    "Imagine a YouView where Netflix, amazon, and nowtv were only available to BT users? It seems counter to their ethos. The platform would be dead in the water for retail users, and maybe TalkTalk and plusnet users too.  I can’t see that happening.... Still i’m ready to eat my YouView box and hat, just in case."

    Imagine a YouView where all ten Sky Sports channels were only available to TalkTalk?
    But denied to BT, Plusnet and retail? Oh, wait a minute....

    That’s certainly part of the expectations of the traditional model of selling channels wholesale to competitors, but you have to admit Nowtv follows a different model. It’s a widely available app like Netflix and amazon. 

    I guess we’ll all see at some point in the following year what way this going to go.... My knife and fork remain poised. 
  • JoeJoe Member, Super User Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭
    Robert said:
    Joe wrote
    I find it hard to believe that a service designed to be open and available on as many devices as possible would want to hide behind BT’s paywall. It would spell the end for the open YouView platform.
    I can't imagine BT not being in a position to go it alone if it wanted to. Those rumours of BT taking over the full Youview operation have never completely went away. Again, whether it happens or not, well that's anyones guess.
    As for hiding behind BTs paywall, it's exactly what Sky have chosen to do with this new multi platform approach. Of course that doesn't stop them launching on retail Youview but without any discounts possibly forthcoming from the new 'merger' of minds at BT/Sky.
    At the end of the day this new deal isn't with Youview, it's with BT.

    Yes BT buying out the other YouView stake holders would likely change everything.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭
    As Robert has pointed out, and its very important to emphasize this, this is an exclusive commercial agreement between Sky and BT only. And there are strong indications there is another in the pipeline, led by BT, but will more than likely be cross-platform.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,813 ✭✭✭
    Look at the straws in the wind. How many national newspapers, discussing the implications of all this for BT’s TV platform, actually mentioned YouView?

    TalkTalk is a busted flush, hemorrhaging customers, Retail is a device to keep the PSB broadcasters onside until the inevitable dawns, and the threat that Sky and BT would continue to go toe to toe for sports rights, enriching the sports bodies but impoverishing themselves, has just been neutralised.

    The only issue now is what price the traditional quad play, when the new play is the triple play between Netflix, Amazon and Sky/NowTV, content is king, and BT, TalkTalk and YouView aren’t making any content?

    Or maybe we have a new quad play - water, gas, electricity, and broadband - and the things that made broadband ‘sticky’, like email and extra channels, and the pain of changing providers, just don’t make it sticky any more?

    My YouView boxes, once the coming thing, are now no more than glorified VHS video recorders. Glorified to give picture quality, features, and ease of use beyond the wildest dreams of VHS, to be sure; but with no Amazon, with cut-down NowTV, and with Netflix and catchup one remove from the same services direct from my TV set, YouView becomes a studied irrelevance once you get beyond its recording capabilities.

    How did that happen? How did YouView, once the pioneer and now the laggard, get so thoroughly overtaken?
    Three cheers for reasoned debate, whether for or against
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