Going to the Dark Side?

trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
edited 8 May 2018, 10:23AM in Discussion
Given the unfixed/unfixable problems I have been having with loss of sound
https://community.youview.com/youview/discussion/7364239/sound-disappears-when-you-change-channels-from-sd-to-hd-channel/p1
I am tempted by Humax support's suggestion that I replace the DTR-T2000 with a FVP-5000T. 

John Lewis, from who I bought the T2000, have been kept up to date with the problem and are prepared to swap the boxes for a not unreasonable fee, given that the 5000T is £80 more than the T2000. Both have NetFlix which is a must

On the plus side, the FVP has 3 tuners, it has different firmware (so this should fix the sound problem).
The downside is that the FVP is very like my daughter's HDR-1100S and that has a couple things I don't like.  It doesn't have an easily visible light that tells you whether it is in standby or is ON.  And it takes an age to switch from standby to ON.  Humax have confirmed both items as also being "features" of the FVP-5000T.

Now we come the main issue which is the switch from YouView to FreeView Play.  Has anyone experience of the differences?  What am I going to notice as different?

Bear in mind that 85% of my viewing is of recorded TV, 5% is of catch-up (usually when a recording has failed or the two recording limit if the T2000 has been exceeded), 5% is live TV (news channels only) and 5% Netflix.

I usually use the EPG to schedule recordings, but I occasionally use the YouView App to set recordings. I understand that FreeView has an equivalent app.

I look forward to hearing views

Comments

  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,049Member ✭✭✭
    Given that you have had some very specific problems with your YouView boxes, I’m inclined to think it’s where you live; some corner case of the competing transmitters you receive that discombobulate your tuners.

    I constantly bemoan that YouView don’t have a van with instrumented YouView boxes on board that they can drive to tuning trouble spots and see exactly what is going on/going wrong in them.

    But a lot of the tuning smarts (or dumbs) are in the Humax firmware, and I would press Humax very closely on the subject of whether the FVP uses similar algorithms to the YouView tuning firmware, or whether it is significantly different.

    And if the former, look at the Pannys.
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • sevansevan Posts: 19Member
    edited 10 May 2018, 7:38AM
    After having odd problems with a second hand BT box towards the end of last year, I dithered since then about what to do, Youview or Freeview Play.
    A big problem now is that you can't walk into a shop and see any of these boxes up and running. I would have liked to have looked at the FVP-5000 but had to content myself with reading the user manuals and the on line reviews.
    What I wanted (over my old Panasonic DVD recorder) was the ability to set recordings from a distance. Based on what I was told in a John Lewis store by a Panasonic representative, I bought a Panasonic DMR-HWT 150B. 
    I had asked specific questions which he had answered but for whatever reason, they were wrong. I took the box back.
    I found that Freeview Play was slow and the EPG weird. If you move back in time you stay on the same channel but are presented with a range of days in that programme to select from. To go to a different channel you have to go back to 'today', change channels and then go left again. I much prefer the Youview method.
    My old Panny has one feature which I really like and will miss. When a programme comes to the adverts, a press of a button will skip to the end of the adverts. It's not perfect but it works most of the time. I was told that the new Panny was the same but I didn't get round to testing it.
    I bought a new BT box retail from John Lewis recently and it seems a vast improvement over the one I had before Christmas. It just seems to do what it is supposed to do and the Youview app on IOS (I prefer this to the BT app) works well.
    Also, it's small enough to take in the caravan on holiday. All I need now is the ability to either plug in a usb stick and play my home videos or a way of transferring them to box's HDD.
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
    Thanks for this
    sevan said:
    "A big problem now is that you can't walk into a shop and see any of these boxes up and running. I would have liked to have looked at the FVP-5000 but had to content myself with reading the user manuals and the on line reviews."
    I totally agree.

    "I found that Freeview Play was slow and the EPG weird. If you move back in time you stay on the same channel but are presented with a range of days in that programme to select from. To go to a different channel you have to go back to 'today', change channels and then go left again. I much prefer the Youview method."
    Slow is worrying,  The moving back in time does sound a bit clunky but I could live with it

    "My old Panny has one feature which I really like and will miss. When a programme comes to the adverts, a press of a button will skip to the end of the adverts. "
    I use the SKIP FWD button on the T2000 remote A LOT.  The PVF5000T doesn't have one.  There is a work around but it is a bit clunky.  I researched whether the Logitech Harmony remotes could replicate the function and it appears that they can, but not the model I have!! Oh bu**er!!!



  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,852Member ✭✭✭
    edited 10 May 2018, 10:35AM
    A YouView is like greased lightning. You press a button and it does it, instantly.

    An FVP-5000T is whats known as a pause and play box. You press a button on the remote, it pauses, thinks about it, then does it. 

    But I agree with Roy. It may not be your box thats the issue. It may be your signal area.
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
    VisionMan and Roy.  You may both be right on the root cause, given the history of problems I have had which may be attributable to competing/conflicting signals.  But that's not going to get fixed anytime soon

    And Roy may also be right that, if the same algorithms are used across the ranges of Humax boxes, the problem may also manifest itself in the FVP-5000T.  But, in the absence of any other way of fixing the problem, it's worth a try
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,049Member ✭✭✭
    edited 10 May 2018, 11:54AM
    sevan said:

    <Snip good stuff>
    ....
    Also, it's small enough to take in the caravan on holiday. All I need now is the ability to either plug in a usb stick and play my home videos or a way of transferring them to box's HDD.
    @sevan

    I don’t think YouView will ever let you put your own stuff on the HDD. And it’s a pretty perilous place to put it, given there is no backup or recovery mechanism if anything breaks.

    But why not just plug your USB stick straight into a USB port on your TV, if it has such?

    I can play all my home videos that way; and even play them from a portable HDD, if the fancy takes me.
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,049Member ✭✭✭
    trophytr5 said:
    VisionMan and Roy.  You may both be right on the root cause, given the history of problems I have had which may be attributable to competing/conflicting signals.  But that's not going to get fixed anytime soon

    And Roy may also be right that, if the same algorithms are used across the ranges of Humax boxes, the problem may also manifest itself in the FVP-5000T.  But, in the absence of any other way of fixing the problem, it's worth a try
    @trophytr5 I imagine all your TVs behave perfectly? So I might have to refine my suggestion to say the cause of your problems may be the YouView, possibly Humax, tuning algorithms and the competing/conflicting signals in your area.

    As you say, the latter won’t get fixed any time soon.

    But maybe you could fix the former, and stay with YouView if you otherwise like it fine, and this is potentially a Humax-wide issue, by getting a Huawei YouView box?
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • jimbjimb Posts: 985Member ✭✭
    Roy said:

    But maybe you could fix the former...... by getting a Huawei YouView box?

    Now that really is going to the dark side. 
     :o 

  • sevansevan Posts: 19Member
    Having rejected Freeview Play in favour of Youview I then rejected the Humax branded boxes because of their reported noisiness and poor reliability reputation. That left me with a choice of a BT box made by ,,,,,,,,,!
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
    @trophytr5 I imagine all your TVs behave perfectly? So I might have to refine my suggestion to say the cause of your problems may be the YouView, possibly Humax, tuning algorithms and the competing/conflicting signals in your area.

    As you say, the latter won’t get fixed any time soon.

    But maybe you could fix the former, and stay with YouView if you otherwise like it fine, and this is potentially a Humax-wide issue, by getting a Huawei YouView box?
    I only have one TV and, except for the Humax channel switching/loss of sound/first thing in the morning problem, it seems to work fine in all other respects.  As I live alone and don't watch TV in bed, why would I need more than one TV?

    "Huawei YouView box" = TalkTalk? Is there a retail version?

    I visited John Lewis today, to voice the comments that I had heard here about the box's speed and they kindly set up a FVP-5000T for me to try (no internet connection though). 

    The FreeView interface is different and may have its quirks (as does the YouView interface)  but it did not seem particularly slow although there was noticeable lag when changing channels, say 7 seconds as against the 3-4 seconds I've just observed on my DTR  T1010 and T2000 boxes.  But this may have been related the box only just having been tuned to local signals.

    Moving through the EPG seemed OK and there was little lag when I pressed the "record" button although I didn't carry through and record something

    I just wish that manufacturers would standardise on the layout of remote buttons!!  Humax even have the Stop and Pause buttons reversed on the DTR 2000 and the HDR 1100 that my daughter has. Same remote, buttons in different places
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
    I have only one TV (this is why I couldn't try and recreate the problem with another TV.  It seems to work perfectly except when the Humax box gets its knickers in a twist and that is not the TV's fault.

    "Huawei YouView" = TalkTalk?  Is there a retail version?

    I went into John Lewis today and they hooked up a Humax FVP-5000T to a TV for me to have a look at.  There was no internet connection. The FreeView interface is different to the YouView one, and both have their quirks.

    Speed in the EPG seemed OK. There was a longer lag when changing channels than with the DTR 2000 (7 seconds as opposed to 3-4). But this may have been due the box having just been tuned and not yet rebooted.  This is nothing I couldn't live with as I don't change channels very often. Just in the morning which is when the sound loss problem happens.

    I tried selecting a programme to record and the response time on that was fine, even though I didn't actually set it to record.

    As there wasn't an internet connection, I wasn't able to look at the response to getting into the catch-up players but the DTR2000 isn't that fast either.  And it's also a lot slower than the FreeSat HDR1100.

    And why can't manufacturers standardise where they put buttons on remotes???  Humax use the same physical remote for the HDR1100 and the DTRT1010/T2000. But the STOP and PAUSE buttons are reversed. WHY?????


  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,597Member ✭✭✭
    trophytr5 said:


    "Huawei YouView" = TalkTalk?  Is there a retail version?



    No. There used to be, but Huawei pulled this a while ago. You can however buy a TalkTalk box online, or find plenty of previously owned ones at reasonable prices on a well-known auction site as well as high street outlets dealing in second-hand goods.

    If you are interested make sure you go for the DN372T model which is the most recent.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,852Member ✭✭✭
    trophytr5 
    Your response time on a YouView in changing channels is 3-4 seconds? Thats not normal.
    All my channel changes take about 1. Thats bizarre.
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
    I checked with a stopwatch this morning.
    CH1 to CH107 - 4-5 secs
    CH107 to CH1 - 2-3 secs
    Over about 3-4 changes. 

    Measured from press of last button in number (i.e. "1" in CH107 to CH1 and "7" in CH1 to CH107, to sound back after change. It usually changes the picture and the sound catches up (or not in some cases)

    The longer wait in 1 to 107 might it waiting for the "other shoe to drop"
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
    edited 17 May 2018, 10:35AM
    OK, the FVP-5000T is installed and seems to be working OK. First impressions are that the FreeView interface isn't as slick as the YouView one, but it is OK.

    The remote doen't have as good a "feel" as the YouView, but it does have the ability to change IR frequencies so it doesn't try and operate the T1010.  However my Harmony 350 remote doesn't appear to have the same feature, but I am still investigating that

    The SKIP feature is available in recording playback but you use the > key (to the right of OK) to get it

    I've plugged in a USB external drive with movies on it and that works OK, although I have yet to work out how (or even if) I can update the drive across my network from the PC using the Humax as a server

    The thing that really sucks is the Humax LiveTV app for tablets and phones.  I have been using the YouView app to schedule recordings on the 2 boxes (T1010 and T2000) without having the blank off the IR receiver on one box while programming the other. YouView app worked out of the box and has been reliable at all times, even scheduling recording from Spain. Very useful if you go away for 2 weeks - please, please introduce a 14 day EPG!!

    The LiveTV app is ****!!!  Totally useless! Not of merchantable quality. Very poor value for money (even though it's free). Unfit for purpose and every other expression of technical disgust I can think of. I can't even get it to display the schedule, let alone schedule a recording. 

    EDIT - I have just managed to get the Live TV app to work.  It's not as easy as the YouView app and I have yet to set a recording, but I can now see the schedule
  • Tim CTim C Posts: 311Member ✭✭
    I'd be interested to see screenshots of the recording & scheduled screens to compare them to Youview past & present.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,852Member ✭✭✭
    Why and for what purpose? As its not how they look, its how they perform?
  • Tim CTim C Posts: 311Member ✭✭
    Visionman said:
    Why and for what purpose? As its not how they look, its how they perform?
    Just who are you to question what I'd like to see?

    I will answer you though - I hate NextGen & want to see what alternatives are available , also Youview has become very unreliable with all these failed recordings & that's both on my OldGen & NextGen boxes.
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
    It seems to me that, as a visual medium, the "look and feel" of the interface IS important.  That's why I got John Lewis to set up a demo for me before making my decision, although they couldn't demo the Recordings piece (nothing on the demo box) or the On-Demand (no internet connection)

    In any case, here are screenshots

  • Tim CTim C Posts: 311Member ✭✭
    trophytr5 said:
    It seems to me that, as a visual medium, the "look and feel" of the interface IS important.  That's why I got John Lewis to set up a demo for me before making my decision, although they couldn't demo the Recordings piece (nothing on the demo box) or the On-Demand (no internet connection)

    In any case, here are screenshots

    Thanks for that. Not as good as OldGen IMHO but nevertheless quite acceptable.
    Looks a viable option to me.
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
    One further observation.
    I have 32 recordings on the T1010 and it has used 15% of the 500gb hard drive
    I have 20 recordings on the 5000T and it has used 17% of the 500gb hard drive.

    Both are, more or less, the same programmes, so it appears that the FVP (FreeView) box uses more space than the TDR (YouView) boxes.  Worth bearing in mind if you are thinking of changing to FreeView. If I had realised, I might have gone for the 1TB version
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,852Member ✭✭✭
    Response time?
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
    I don't have a problem with the 5000T's responses.

    If there's something you're particularly concerned about, let me know and I'll see if I can measure it.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,852Member ✭✭✭
    No no, not concerned, just curious as to remote press to action time. No biggie.
    Enjoy your new box trophytr5. 
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,049Member ✭✭✭
    @trophytr5, have you checked for the recording difficulties you used to have with YouView boxes, to see if the 5000T is free of these?
    ‘Does television exist for us to watch, or do we exist to watch television?’ - Noah Hawley
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
    @Visionman - seems no worse than with the T2000, except that I can't do a side-by-side comparision.  If anything, it's faster tha the old T1010 which does seem to be struggling these days!!

    @Roy - No sign of it not recording in HD, if that is the problem you are asking about.  Having read back over the old thread, it appears that it was fixed in the end on the T1010 and I don't recall having had the problem with the T2000

    As far as space use is concerned, I am avoiding Hd recordings as far as possible for the moment, as my 2 week holiday is coming up and I don't want to lose recording while I am away.  I have tested the TV Guide app on the 5000T and it seems to work remotely over a wifi connection which should be all I need
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 8,852Member ✭✭✭
    edited 23 May 2018, 9:28PM
    Sounds perfect. You may come across a few problems as you go. This is the forum to reference if you do -
    https://myhumax.org/forum/forum/fvp-4000t-1
  • trophytr5trophytr5 Posts: 159Member
    I'm already on there.  I changed my user name to DaveG1946 as I have sold the Trophy
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