Youview on Sony AF9
One of the reasons for purchasing the Sony AF9 was the use of Youview. However, I was dissapointed to see that if I choose the Youview experience over the default Freeview I must do without using the TV’s Freesat channels and tuners. As I can use Freesat alongside Freeview, I presume the restriction is a consequence of something Youview related.
I would really like to have the full functions of the TV rather than the rediculous loss of Freesat simply for my preference and loyalty to Youview.
I would really like to have the full functions of the TV rather than the rediculous loss of Freesat simply for my preference and loyalty to Youview.
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What they do have is an unmanaged European Satellite platform of over 3000 unmanaged channels, but I don't know if any are UK as I've never bothered loading them. To be honest, I'd rather find 2 hours to waste somewhere else.
When switching back to Youview, all the channels for Youview must be resinstalled and you lose all the Freesat channels. When you retune the Freesat channels you revert to Freeview.
The issue is exactly as i stated and the AF9 has a sat receiver.
IF (SATELLITE) CONNECTION INPUT(S) - 2 (Bottom)
You'll have to take your complaint to the supplier if such restrictions weren't stipulated.
My point is that the satellite cannot be used when Youview is chosen over Freeview. If Freeview is used you can also use the sat channels.
If you enable Satellite you'll also be able to access Digital Terrestrial Television (note not Freeview), but won't also be able to access YouView.
But heres the crux - If you enable YouView, it will wipe all the Sat channels from the TV, period, and to get them back you'll have to exit YouView first and then re-install them.
You can have Digital Terrestrial Television and Satellite TV together, but not have YouView with either of them.
It is important to distinguish between Freesat and satellite reception generally - Freesat is a superior, Freeview-like, EPG for satellite services, which these Sony TVs do not possess, having only the basic Now and Next programme information.
In several cases, buyers who thought these sets had Freesat - some assuming it, some having been actively mis-sold - have sent these TVs back and obtained an alternative that does really have Freesat. So it matters.
Have you actually tried switching to Satellite from YouView? It has been reported on the Community here that this is now possible, though the documentation still says you can’t. But I have no personal experience of this, not having satellite here.
A small point is that if you switch away from YouView to the ‘Freeview’ side, you don’t actually have to retune on the way back to YouView; just Skip that step. I have used this to rearrange the channel ordering, something you can only do on the ’Freeview’ side, and preserve that reordering when back in YouView.
The various services - YouView, DTT (loosely ‘Freeview’), satellite - are more than just GUIs; each has a memory footprint. And though no-one in either Sony or YouView will divulge what the issue is or was that would not allow YouView and satellite simultaneously, I suspect that the memory in these Sony sets could not hold both footprints simultaneously.
I also suspect this is why YouView on these sets has stalled with most of the usual YouView features found on the boxes still not present. But is the YouView footprint bigger than it should have been, or is Sony’s memory smaller than it should have been? That’s the question that makes everybody look at their shoes.
However, while this might have been the case with the 2015 sets, you’d think increasing the memory on the later ones would have been fairly straightforward. So perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye.
Or doesn’t, in the case of satellite
i think it’s disappointing that there is no real structure like with the FreeSat EPG for satellite on TV’s without FreeSat branding but that have a single or dual Set of satellite inputs.
It’s dissapointing that Sony go to the trouble of producing an extraordinary TV like the AF9 that cost £4k for the larger version, has all the required hardware components but have not gone the last few inches with an apprpriate usability interface that brings it all together.
Failing that, I’m sure that there must be some logical reasons, but if Youview is a collaboration of channel providers partly to compete with chargeable satellite provers, then why would they not want to port the Youview platform to work on satellite tuners to make users with a dish paying for Sky realise that what is available from their dish without the chargeable Sky channels may well be more than adequate for them. It would be great if they enhanced the platform ao that it combined all the free satellites with the free terrestial channels into a single interface on TVs that have both sets of tuners. To me, at least, it makes sense.
Firstly, the UI on the AF9 was the fundamental starting point, not the endpoint, and certainly not a hastily added afterthought. Sony made the design decision to use the Google Android TV UI, and this clunky thing has been dragging their sets down since 2015. The OLED shootout in the November What HiFi? gave the crown to LG, because of the Sony UI shortcomings, even though Sony use LG panels and arguably get a better picture from them than LG themselves can.
And Sony seems to have split into two design and engineering teams; one ensuring that the picture on these sets is better than ever, with more than adequate hardware, and the other building the UI with underspecified hardware and ongoing software problems, besides the issues that mean YouView has never been able to realise its full potential (as shown by its PVRs) on these TVs.
Secondly, YouView was never intended as a challenge to Sky; rather, it was intended as a superset of Freeview, with all the Freeview channels, all the Players, and the ability to choose programmes directly off the EPG, to watch if live, record if in the future, and uniquely then, to watch on catchup if they were past but available on a player.
So the challenge was to Freeview; a challenge that has been answered with Freeview Play, especially after the ISP tail started wagging the YouView dog, and things like BT TV and BT Sport did start looking like a challenge to Sky.
YouView, for one reason or another, was always about OTA broadcasts, never satellite; and satellite tuners are different from the SD and HD broadcast tuners, so adding those to YouView boxes would have added cost and complication; and YouView and its predecessors had enough trouble getting off the ground due to their perceived threat to Freeview, without taking on Sky as well; even as it was, Sky tried to stop YouView getting permission to launch.
What you are looking for though, perhaps, is provided by Panasonic, with Freeview Play plus Freesat on some of their TVs, though admittedly not integrated. But even if they were, would it make that much difference? Despite this USP, Panasonic haven’t swept the board, and still trail some way behind the big three TV manufacturers who don’t offer this.
Because Freetime From Freesat already has that market cornered.
Freetime From Freesat is YouViews satellite clone and do a very good job of it.
Freetime From Freesat was only ever intended to be on Freesat. YouView only on Digital terrestrial television.
"YouView was never intended as a challenge to Sky."
Indeed it wasn't. It was introduced as an alternative to and via DTT.
The Android UI is blisteringly fast and doesn’t seem to me to have any problems ... apart from not being able to load Now TV as an app. Not a problem because it isn’t something I try except when on a silly offer.
I have just bought a TV which is really great in all respects except this irritating one. I have a Hummy Freesat and two BT recorders as well as a motorised system and having bought a new TV, and with a very, very clear preference for Youview rather than Freeview, I’m hardly looking to replace the Sony with a Panasonic and I do not believe I chose the wrong TV.
But thanks for the information.
I hope I didn’t give the impression that I thought you had bought the wrong TV - we didn’t touch, for one thing, on sound, where the rear sub and the screen shakers give the AF9 quite a USP.
I just mentioned the Panny sets because they have both Freeview and Freesat, as you desired, and so represent a solution for those where this consideration outweighs all others; but of course, they don’t have YouView, which was a strong factor in your AF9 choice.
Thiugh I must confess I blinked a bit at this, as there is much in the PVR YouView feature set that is missing on these TVs; enough difference for some people who have bought a Sony Android TV on the promise of ‘YouView’ to send them back, or get a YouView box as well, because of the disparities.
A £20 NowTV stick, at the small cost of occupying an HDMI port, is what I always recommend to those who want NowTV, and used to recommend to those who moved off the YouView UI and therefore lost the itv Hub and All4, though there is an unofficial software workaround for that now.
“BT is one of the seven investors in the YouView consortium, which has developed an internet-connected set-top box, bringing catch-up and pay-TV functionality as an alternative to signing up to Virgin Media and Sky.”
I am a long-term user and beta-tester of Youview. I have most Youview boxes. I remained open minded about Freeview and even bought the Humax FVP 500T, which I returned after trying it and finding it lacking. I reverted to my previous solution of two BT UHD set-top boxes working together to provide the amount of recording I need. I find on STBs Youview to be much better and to my own preferences than Freeview. It was therefore a perfectly logical choice for me and was a bonus when deciding to buy the Sony AF9. I cannot praise the AF9 enough it is an extraordinary TV. Youview integrates perfectly well on the AF9 except for the issue I raise here.
Thanks for you pointers on the other thrad suggesting I read other background reading but my presence here wasn’t in any way intended to give the impression that I am interested in conducting detailed resarch on the issue.
I tracked your quote down to an article by Daniel Farey-Jones in Campaign in 2013; it is hard to know if he was quoting something BT told him, or putting his own spin on it.
But I certainly can’t find it as a direct BT quote, let alone a YouView one.
And as I said above, BT and TalkTalk did start dragging YouView into competion with Sky; but that was never the idea with projects Kangaroo and Canvas, the forerunners to YouView. Or even, as far as I can tell, a direction taken by YouView itself at its initial launch.
But I’m glad you like your AF9; I think I would be put off by the way it leans back, or is this unnoticeable in practice?
I do not know if this is true, or true only for the latest sets, or not true at all.
i think when YouView and Sony started out together, there was a pretty clear intention that YouView and satellite would coexist, and that YouView on these sets, with an added HDD, would be as close to YouView PVR functionality as it was possible to get.
So nothing to do with licence restrictions at all.
And I think it foundered when even the cut-down YouView we have now could not be shoe-horned into these sets without something else having to give, that something in the first instance being simultaneous satellite use.
But no-one from Sony or YouView will even say if this is the case, let alone who is responsible for the footprint mismatch, if this is indeed a footprint mismatch issue.
It was widely reported that one of Youviews aims was to take on and beat Sky. I see no reason why it wouldn’t be and I saw it often. eg
“The new deal will almost certainly mean that BT and TalkTalk will shoulder the bulk of the additional funding required - they are very keen to develop full mobile TV services to challenge BSkyB's Sky Go service, for example.”
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/may/12/youview-increase-staff-sky-bbc-itv-channel-4
But going head to head with Sky did not go very well for them, something that I suspect YouView knew all along, as the pure retail side never attempted this.
I thought I’d retry Now TV on their entertainment and film for £99 per year - bought it in May and we haven’t used it. We do not miss Sky at all. Netflix is well integrated into the Sony box and I use that sometimes with VPN.
The only thing I’d like is the Sky box or the Virgin box, hence our trying the 5000T which I really wanted to like, but it was rubbish. I asked Youview why there wasn’t a Youview version of the 5000T and was told it was purely a `Hummy decision. So I asked Hummy and they said it was a Youview decision.
A youview version of the 5000T would be a perfect box for me failing the Youview Sony version discussed here.