Youview Wifi Support
fusemunk
Member Posts: 40 ✭
in Discussion
With enhanced broadband now common and mesh technology growing, it would be a great addition to have new Youboxes support wifi
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fusemunk
Member Posts: 40 ✭
fusemunk
Member Posts: 40 ✭
Comments
Yes indeed, and I can confirm I ran my T1000 that way in Spain, with a similar device to yours, but made by TP-Link.
However, I am but a retail user, and those with a BT subscription and a BT Home Hub will need to be aware that the Hub does not pass multicast over WiFi.
For which the two alternate solutions are either to use a third-party router with no such restriction, or to get another WiFi nanorouter, plug that into an Ethernet port on the Home Hub, and talk to that from the remote WiFi nanorouter.
So I can see why the BT Youview boxes don’t support wifi.
In my living room I got the BT 2100 Youview box connected via TP Link 300mbps pass though Home Plugs and upstairs I got the retail BT Youview box connected direct into the Home Hub 4 using Ethernet cable. BT multicast channels seems to work 98% of the time without any problems using the TP Limg Home Plugs.
Im not sure how the wifi disc will work with the new BT smart Hub 2.
Darren
Like, I don’t think the disc is built in - it’s separate - and separate enough that while the router is yours, the disc remains BT’s property. (Why?)
And are you saying there is a configuration setting on the current Smart Hubs that would let them pass multicast over WiFi? If so, can you please post details?
Also your links are to the smart hub 1 here is the smarthub2 with disc built in
https://www.productsandservices.bt.com/broadband/complete-wifi
The reason BT hold the discs is because going forwards BT want a role in your house driving all the iot presumed to multiply very quickly over the next few years and they are hoping their role will be to look after all these including coming to your house to make sure you are setup and working and looking after them as you go forwards (yes I know what people will say about that but they do have to look for avenues to leverage additional money and the people on here are a smallish minority that know what they want but there is a vast population that don’t really have a clue).
The link I gave (still) has the Smart Hub 2, if you look further down the page.
I’m not sure what it would mean for a router to have a disc ‘built in’, since the disc is a WiFi repeater, and the router WiFi signal is the thing it repeats.
But here’s some more information, showing what one of the discs looks like. And incidentally confirming that it has a single Ethernet port on it.
BT’s information is still a moving target, and I should have given a screenshot, not that second link, as last night it led to a ‘work in progress’ page, whereas now there is content there; last night, it was impossible to find out what ‘Complete WiFi’ was, or what the broadband requirements for it were.
Even now, its still not joined up; this link currently says £65, but click through the ‘Buy Now’ link and it currently says £100. (I’m saying ‘currently’, as one or other will likely get amended by the time you look at this).
As to why the discs belong to BT rather than to you, your explanation makes perfect sense, except that it then requires an explanation of why BT don’t include the Smart Hub 2 in their side of things also, but do allow you to buy that?
And separating the issue of whether the earlier Smart Hub can support multicast over WiFi, that BT sent you a Hub to trial this is encouraging, even if the results sent them back to the drawing board, or to abandon the attempt altogether.
But even if it looked exactly like the standard Hub, the internals may have been rather different; circuit boards, firmware, and so on.
So that BT can provide a Hub that can attempt to do this does not in any way support the assertion that an existing standard Hub can be reconfigured to do it, which is what we were talking about.
@Roy - I would be amazed if the internals were different but I agree the firmware could well of been. I wasn't saying that people with existing Hubs could suddenly change something and make them pass multicast (although it could be possible), I was simply saying that it was possible from a Hub (albeit one that might have been slightly different) and therefore I would expect the new hub to have this built in otherwise it would be fairly 'un-futureproofed' especially as BT have already proved it can be done (albeit not very well back then but that was a few years ago).
This is where I show my ignorance. Would the Ethernet LAN port allow you connect a client device i.e. STB or is that port only for direct connection to a router (WAN?), would the client get an address ok via the disc Ethernet port?. The main thing we need to know is if multicast can be carried over the disc mesh network straight out the box, I have asked someone and will see if I get an answer (I have a SmartHub 2 but unfortunately not got my hands on one of the discs yet so can't just try it myself - I have been told that in testing a lot of people that had a 3 disc Whole Home Wi-Fi replaced that with a smarthub2 and one disc and got better speed and coverage than the 3 disc whole home solution but I haven't been able to confirm that myself so it does appear at least slightly hopeful at this point).
Going from someone's comments via your link -
The new Smart Hub 2 above is the first to include built-in mesh functionality even if it is proprietary to BT and to use it you need to subscribe to BT Plus to get the mesh disk(s).
I am not certain of the ins and outs but I know there is a split in the SmartHub 2's menu between 2.4/5 and discs wireless, so although they all use the same ssid's and allow you to roam between devices seamlessly I think there is possibly a difference between the Wi-Fi signal output from the router and the 'mesh' network the disks use (even though in use it would appear no different). Which 'could' mean that you could possibly utilise multicast using the disc network and direct connection of the STB to a disc even if you can't direct from the router wireless, I don't really know.
Again you link would seem to bear this theory out -
UPDATE 27th Nov 2018 @ 2:37pm
BT has confirmed that the 2.4GHz band on their SH2 can deliver a peak WiFi speed of 289Mbps, while the same band for their Wi-Fi Discs will do 385Mbps. The Smart Hub 2’s chipset is also based on Broadcom’s 63138, 4366 and 43602 (i.e. slightly newer than the original SH1).
P.S - just thought I can test one part of this out tonight by plugging my AP into my STB and connecting to the SmartHub2 and seeing if it passes the IP channels, if this does work I expect it to be quite poor as before but I wouldn't be surprised if BT locked multicast to the Wi-Fi mesh network and therefore needed you to buy BT Plus if you wanted to use your STB wirelessly (including maybe releasing a combined disc/wireless box in the future that could be sold with a BT Plus bundle).
Much speculation on both our parts, but here are a few things I do know:-
The TP-Link nano router I have has its own SSID, and possibly password also; it starts with the router SSID, but then adds something of its own. This can be faintly annoying, and inconvenient, when trying to use it as a WiFi extender, as you need to link to that amended SSID to get the benefit of it. But you still get an IP address on the main network, via DHCP.
Clearly, this is not the way to go; but if the nano router broadcasts the same SSID as the main router, then while it makes the connection seamless, you now don’t know, if you are in range of both, which one you are connected to, and you may be connected to the marginal one.
So for this to work, both the router and the repeaters need to know what is going on. Then you can be handed off to the most favourable device in the configuration. And this is what mesh networks do; plus, in addition, having the possibility to go though an intermediate repeater if there is more than one repeater in the network.
So you can have a repeater which is out of range of the main router, and yet still go via it, as long as both it and the main router are in range of the intermediate repeater.
As with all new technologies it seems, there is yet no interoperability standard for repeaters of different makes; hence BT’s lock-in via its discs. But standards will come, as they came to 3D glasses (remember those?) and to PLAs.
I’ve just implemented these for my garden office, which do repeat the main router SSID on the WiFi side. But I don’t know if or how they negotiate for clashes with the main router; maybe they take the view that if you are using Powerlines, you must be out of WiFi range of the main router, though this isn’t quite true in my case. But I can see from the connected devices I have there that they are avoiding the one-bar signal from the main router in favour of the three-bar signal from the PLA, so something is going on there to ensure this works as it should.
The BT discs, as with any mesh network, negotiate with the main router by DHCP, and this does not differentiate between the WiFi links to that disc and the one Ethernet link, the signal over which also goes back by WiFi over the mesh network to the main router.
But whether the Smart Hub 2 passes multicast over WiFi to WiFi devices, directly and/or via the discs, or only to Ethernet-connected devices on the discs, or not at all and you still need PLAs from the main router to a YouView box if you don’t/can’t connect it directly by Ethernet to the main router, is the £65 (or is it £100?) question.
Perhaps, if we can’t find the answer in the published material, some kind soul with a BT TV subscription would like to ask this, either of BT directly, or over on the BT TV forum?
@Roy Just had this response -
Just tested it .. works perfectly. STB connected to disc, and disc connected via Wifi to SH2
If I don't get an answer about direct wi-fi connection to SH2 I will test it out myself tonight (unless someone else has a SH2 and AP then can check before me). If BT were smart
they would work it so it doesn't work with a direct Wi-Fi connection in which case people would have to buy BT Plus total Wi-Fi off them to get a disc and get it to work (maybe bundle it with a multibox subscription). I can see a new box having the disc electronics bundled within it (maybe they will only allow you to 'borrow' the box) and supply a new SH2 as part of the subscription with a one off installation cost, hang on doesn't that remind me of another company lol....
Therefore looking to connect to the youview box via enternet which has an input from a wifi receiver.
Roy what do i need to give it a try?
One of these would be a good start, and might be all you need, as IIRC, TalkTalk don’t have BT’s prohibition on multicast going out over WiFi. Especially with the mesh system you have.
This nanorouter is dual band, so you can try the more empty, and potentially faster, 5Ghz band on it, if the router and mesh systems support that. 2.4Ghz has better penetration through walls and over distance, if you get issues, but hopefully the mesh system will deal with such range issues anyway.
From the details on the page I reference, Client Mode seems to be the Mode you want. There might be a setting or two needed for multicast, if you have any TalkTalk Boosts, e.g. IGMP Snooping, but try it on, say, the BBC iPlayer first, for basic proof of concept, and then see if you can get the Boosts, configuring it for that if required.
Good luck!
As to full fat NowTV, I’m sure anyone who wants this has long ago bought a NowTV box or stick, rather than waiting for it to appear on their YouView box.
Like me; who, looking at the channels on NowTV versus those on BT TV, and not seeing too much of an overlap, will be puzzled by your assertion that BT TV will become irrelevant?
Is that just your personal opinion, or do you have any evidence to back it up?
Enquiring minds want to know.
I just used an old wifi TP-LINk extender (now I have the Mesh Velop I had spares) that had an Ethernet out. I reset it then connected to my new Network. I then set it up near one of my Velop nodes and plugged it into my Humax Youview box ethernet , replacing my PLA Ethernet connection.
Result! My Sky sports is working much better - no pixel issues, the iPlayer is not stopping after 30 mins. Even watched iPlayer and recorded Sky sport (multicast) at same time.
Now going to do the same with my other Youview boxes....
Thanks
They have already stated that their 4K live sport will have HDR later this year and if you really think they won’t have a new box to also take advantage you are plain wrong.
Also why do you think they need to up thier game. They are the first recordable stb to have Netflix, Amazon and shortly full NowTV suite along with 4K sports with Dolby Atmos and exclusive AMC channel. They will never get into the content business like SKY but then when you have thier full content on your box along with the very deep pocketed Netflix and Amazon’s why would you want to.
I have also proved you can connect a new disc to a box and get full Wi-fi so again I think BT (like or loath the idea) will look to leverage you buying thier complete Wi-fi solution to easily have Wi-fi boxes.
Like I said I am happy to make a bet with you about a new box this year if you are so certain there won’t be one
Decade old box, seriously you might like to check your facts first
BT trialled Wi-fi solutions but couldn’t get a reliable connection for multicast, that will only change with a mesh network that complete Wi-fi will offer so watch this space this year.