TalkTalk drop charges for Multi-room but add charges for TV subscribers

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Comments

  • meviewmeview Posts: 5Member
    jimb said:
    ...
    With the charge, you’ll continue to receive access to over 80 channels, to On Demand players and the ability to add and remove extra channels when you want to....
    This could imply that without the charge, you don't get access to the 80 channels or access to the On Demand players, no?
  • John29John29 Posts: 40Member
    I did search... thread title and opening post appear to be praising Talktalk.

    Given that I read about this tonight I had no intention reading a thread praising them.

    Oh well, now there's a thread that's properly titled that's linked to that discussion.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,073Member ✭✭✭
    edited 17 January 2019, 9:16AM
    meview said:
    jimb said:
    ...
    With the charge, you’ll continue to receive access to over 80 channels, to On Demand players and the ability to add and remove extra channels when you want to....
    This could imply that without the charge, you don't get access to the 80 channels or access to the On Demand players, no?
    Precisely the point I was making.

    Good spot, @meview, and I am glad I am not the only one to think he sees a misleading statement right there.
    For those familiar with Red Dwarf, the internet seems to be divided into those who find it fascinating that Kryten is named after J.M. Barrie’s ‘The Admirable Crichton’, and those who think ‘So what?’
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,073Member ✭✭✭
    redchiz said:
    Roy said:
    @jimb

    So that is 80 channels you have just chosen to cut yourself off from, then?
    Read it again.
    See above.
    For those familiar with Red Dwarf, the internet seems to be divided into those who find it fascinating that Kryten is named after J.M. Barrie’s ‘The Admirable Crichton’, and those who think ‘So what?’
  • John29John29 Posts: 40Member
    edited 16 January 2019, 11:23PM
    redchiz said:
    Roy said:
    @jimb

    So that is 80 channels you have just chosen to cut yourself off from, then?
    Read it again.
    Are you being serious or sarcastic?
    You can't honestly think what that rep just said is okay?

    With the charge, you’ll continue to receive access to over 80 channels, to On Demand players and the ability to add and remove extra channels when you want to. 
    The part in bold is the ONLY thing they are paying for.

    That's absolutely shocking.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,073Member ✭✭✭
    edited 17 January 2019, 12:29AM
    redchiz said:
    TalkTalk could have handled this so much better. If they had made it an opt in, rather than opt out for one thing. Or are they really so cynical as to hope that inertia pulls in a few extra quid here and there, regardless of the reputational damage?

    But there are positives in this too. First, multiroom is now effectively free, save for setup charges. And somewhat buried in all this is a free £5 monthly rental voucher for the TalkTalk TV store.

    My own view is still emerging, but it may be that TalkTalk are trying to harden whatever it is that is their TV base. Everybody with a box? Surely not. This way they can more accurately target sales, marketing and perhaps with the help of YouView even advertising and other metrics at a more active, rather than passive TV base. Just a thought.
    Good stuff there, @redchiz, though I don’t know why it took me three goes to quote it.

    I take @John29’s point, though, that all that the £4 buys an existing TalkTalk customer with a box and no desire for multi room or film rentals is the right to buy Boosts; and who is going to opt in to paying for that?

    And it’s a brilliant marketing ploy, not; the sensible thing to do if you don’t have Boosts is to opt out, even if you might want them in the future. Because are TalkTalk really going to say to someone offering to pay for a Boost, even despite the now higher cost of entry “Oh no, you can’t have one because you haven’t been paying your £4 a month?” And when the customer wants to end the Boost for any reason “Yes you can stop paying for the Boost, but you can’t stop paying the £4 a month as you had a Boost, and you can’t opt out now”?

    And if you have an existing Boost, which you thought was costing you £7 a month, and is now going to cost you £11 - well, isn’t that going to be just the boost (small ‘b’) you need to give up on Boosts and opt out?

    So I think this will do the opposite of hardening their user base; customers who used to use the box to get the most out of their Boosts will use it, or not, as they think fit now, which may be less, and more casual.

    I suspect though, that TalkTalk are only looking at this going forward; the third leg of their triple play, TV, was being given away too cheaply, mainly bringing in zero revenue, and not leveraging enough people who would have gone elsewhere for their broadband without TV to merit doing it.

    And at £4, and given the competition costs more anyway, not creating any barrier to people taking the TV service, if they want it.

    So a sensible scheme to put new customers on.

    But TalkTalk should have bitten the bullet with existing customers and not charged them extra unless they had Boosts, or wanted to have them in the future, so nobody had to opt out.

    I do fear though that the cynical view may be justified, and that knowing many customers would not bother to opt out, TalkTalk perhaps though they would gain from the ‘loyalty penalty’ that our insurance companies have been found to be charging, and getting away with it because inertia is so much easier  :#
    For those familiar with Red Dwarf, the internet seems to be divided into those who find it fascinating that Kryten is named after J.M. Barrie’s ‘The Admirable Crichton’, and those who think ‘So what?’
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Posts: 125Member ✭✭
    Roy said:
    redchiz said:
    TalkTalk could have handled this so much better. If they had made it an opt in, rather than opt out for one thing. Or are they really so cynical as to hope that inertia pulls in a few extra quid here and there, regardless of the reputational damage?

    But there are positives in this too. First, multiroom is now effectively free, save for setup charges. And somewhat buried in all this is a free £5 monthly rental voucher for the TalkTalk TV store.

    My own view is still emerging, but it may be that TalkTalk are trying to harden whatever it is that is their TV base. Everybody with a box? Surely not. This way they can more accurately target sales, marketing and perhaps with the help of YouView even advertising and other metrics at a more active, rather than passive TV base. Just a thought.
    Good stuff there, @redchiz, though I don’t know why it took me three goes to quote it.

    I take @John29’s point, though, that all that the £4 buys an existing TalkTalk customer with a box and no desire for multi room or film rentals is the right to buy Boosts; and who is going to opt in to paying for that?

    And it’s a brilliant marketing ploy, not; the sensible thing to do if you don’t have Boosts is to opt out, even if you might want them in the future. Because are TalkTalk really going to say to someone offering to pay for a Boost, even despite the now higher cost of entry “Oh no, you can’t have one because you haven’t been paying your £4 a month?” And when the customer wants to end the Boost for any reason “Yes you can stop paying for the Boost, but you can’t stop paying the £4 a month as you had a Boost, and you can’t opt out now”?

    And if you have an existing Boost, which you thought was costing you £7 a month, and is now going to cost you £11 - well, isn’t that going to be just the boost (small ‘b’) you need to give up on Boosts and opt out?

    So I think this will do the opposite of hardening their user base; customers who used to use the box to get the most out of their Boosts will use it, or not, as they think fit now, which may be less, and more casual.

    I suspect though, that TalkTalk are only looking at this going forward; the third leg of their triple play, TV, was being given away too cheaply, mainly bringing in zero revenue, and not leveraging enough people who would have gone elsewhere for their broadband without TV to merit doing it.

    And at £4, and given the competition costs more anyway, not creating any barrier to people taking the TV service, if they want it.

    So a sensible scheme to put new customers on.

    But TalkTalk should have bitten the bullet with existing customers and not charged them extra unless they had Boosts, or wanted to have them in the future, so nobody had to opt out.

    I do fear though that the cynical view may be justified, and that knowing many customers would not bother to opt out, TalkTalk perhaps though they would gain from the ‘loyalty penalty’ that our insurance companies have been found to be charging, and getting away with it because inertia is so much easier  :#
    Well said both.
    TalkTalk issue emails with buttons to add boosts with one click. Why don't they add a button to remove TV with one click?
    As you've alluded to, apathy by customers will keep revenue streams up, but then the complaints will roll in when they realise they have been paying for something they don't use.
    I know a number of people who are or will be migrating to NOW TV as this seems a much cheaper option (with current promotions) and you seem to get more box sets and Sky Atlantic.
    Admittedly there are some channels missing that the full entertainment boost offers, but it does seem an attractive alternative, for a small hardware outlay.
  • fre55diefre55die Posts: 158Member
    Well My account runs from the first of the month and is taken out on the 10th of the month. I still have not received the E-mail informing me of the new charge !!!!
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,073Member ✭✭✭
    edited 17 January 2019, 9:14AM
    Visionman said:
    TalkTalks current situation isn't currently comparable with anyone elses, as its purely about charging customers £4 for a service they don't use and weren't even aware they had.
    That’s not quite true though, is it?

    If they took a YouView box from TalkTalk, and never told TalkTalk they stopped using it, then TalkTalk will have concluded that they still have the right to buy Boosts. Something that the customers will have been made aware of, by TalkTalk’s advertising and point of sale material, at least initially.

    A right, previously free, which TalkTalk have now decided they are going to charge for.

    A right which, now customers know it is going to be chargeable, they have to option to give up and not pay for, by opting out.

    I can happily agree that this is a crazy position that TalkTalk have got themselves into, and so the logic may seem topsy-turvy, but in their looking-glass world, it is entirely logical, and the logic is entirely consistent.
    For those familiar with Red Dwarf, the internet seems to be divided into those who find it fascinating that Kryten is named after J.M. Barrie’s ‘The Admirable Crichton’, and those who think ‘So what?’
  • scottscott Posts: 1,949Member ✭✭✭

    I would suggest this will fall into the same category as BT did some years ago :-

    BT Broadband customers charged for the BT Sport Europe TV package who didn't ask for it can get a refund, the regulator has ruled.
    The company has been reprimanded for an "unfair" deal that automatically charged for sports TV packages customers did not request.
    BT expanded its sports offering on 1 August, giving customers the choice of a four-channel premium package and a single channel basic package. As part of the changes, broadband-only customers would be charged £5 per month for the premium package.

    BT originally contacted customers in June and July saying they would be billed for the premium package unless they opted out by 31 July.
    Some customers complained to Ofcom after they were notified by BT they would be automatically charged for the premium package unless they opted out in the run up to the changes.
    Following the complaints, Ofcom spoke to the broadband and TV provider and has advised customers that they will be able to opt out of the premium deal within four weeks of being billed for the services.
    Customers have also been assured they will be reimbursed for any charges as a result of the changes if they choose the basic package or decline the sports packages altogether.

    https://www.moneywise.co.uk/news/2015-08-12/customers-to-be-refunded-bt-sport-europe-tv-bills

  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,091Member ✭✭✭
    Roy said:

    I do fear though that the cynical view may be justified, and that knowing many customers would not bother to opt out, TalkTalk perhaps thought they would gain from the ‘loyalty penalty’ that our insurance companies have been found to be charging, and getting away with it because inertia is so much easier  :#
    (I was just about to say this.)
    I think that's absolutely right @Roy and if this actually is their strategy then it's actually quite smart.  ;)
  • John29John29 Posts: 40Member
    edited 17 January 2019, 12:21PM
    New twist on this.... brand new Talktalk customer who just migrated, never had TV from them, owns a YouView box....

    yes... they are charging them £4 a month for the privilege of owning a YouView box.

    2 cases appeared today, at least 1 a Humax box.

    Any comment from YouView on this?
    Sarah?

    Any YouView customer who switches to the ISP Talktalk is getting a £4 a month charge?

  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,837Member ✭✭✭
    Can I ask those of you with partial and/or speed-reading issues and/or passing judgment on others to look at the whole of the conversation jimb posted earlier, not just part of it. Thank you.   :)
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,837Member ✭✭✭
    John29 said:
    New twist on this.... brand new Talktalk customer who just migrated, never had TV from them, owns a YouView box....

    yes... they are charging them £4 a month for the privilege of owning a YouView box.

    2 cases appeared today, at least 1 a Humax box.

    Any comment from YouView on this?
    Sarah?

    Any YouView customer who switches to the ISP Talktalk is getting a £4 a month charge?

    Have you got a source for this? 
  • John29John29 Posts: 40Member
    edited 17 January 2019, 2:09PM

    https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/TalkTalk-TV/My-Humax-has-been-hacked-by-TalkTalk/m-p/2301067#M133676
    and
    https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/TalkTalk-TV/Talktalk-FRAUDULENT-4-charge/m-p/2301002#M133663
    and
    http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/talktalk/f/4611249-beware-stealth-4month-charge-from-february.html
    and
    https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/8289-talktalk-customers-need-to-watch-out-for-4-tv-charge

    need more?

    Well well well... I've just had a good read of many of these threads.

    It's worse than you all think.

     

    I migrated to Talktalk on November and took a fibre package WITH NO TV.

    I have never, ever, in the past been a Talktalk customer, ever.

     

    I do however OWN my own YouView, that I bought. IT'S MINE.

     

    What a lovely warm feeling I got when I checked my emails yesterday to find I'm being charge £4 a month for having my own box.

     

    THIS IS FRAUD.

    I BOUGHT THIS BOX. IT IS MINE.

    YOU CANNOT CHARGE ME FOR USING IT.

     

    I've emailed the Talktalk CEO and I'm currently awaiting a callback from someone "senior".

     

    Just wow.... I really am speechless at the incompetence.

     

    We've lost track of who used to have a TV package so we'll simply charge EVERYONE with a Huawei branded YouView box.

     

    You do know they sold these Huawei boxes retail for a while?

    I used my box with Plusnet for 2 years with no problem.

     

    Shameful state of affairs.

  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,837Member ✭✭✭
    Sorry, I misunderstood your use of the phrase "brand new customer."
  • GoodbyeGoodbye Posts: 103Member
    That's how I discovered youview. At the time  bt were changing £6 a month for their gorifeid freeview TV.... but you were given a recordable box which at the time retailed for nearly £200. No brainer just cancelled when the year was up. 
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,336Member ✭✭✭
    So a user who is with Plusnet and already owns a YouView box decides to leave Plusnet and move to TalkTalk. But because TTs servers detect he has a box he automatically gets charged £4 a month and the onus is on HIM to cancel it?

    Thats not a Stealth Charge, thats a disgrace. And what a cock up. I hope the name of the Exec board member responsible for this mess comes out because they have a lot to answer for.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,073Member ✭✭✭
    redchiz said:
    Can I ask those of you with partial and/or speed-reading issues and/or passing judgment on others to look at the whole of the conversation jimb posted earlier, not just part of it. Thank you.   :)
    Bit elliptical @redchiz. Care to elucidate?
    For those familiar with Red Dwarf, the internet seems to be divided into those who find it fascinating that Kryten is named after J.M. Barrie’s ‘The Admirable Crichton’, and those who think ‘So what?’
  • John29John29 Posts: 40Member
    Which is what Talktalk customers did, only to be charged £4 a month 4-5 years later.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,073Member ✭✭✭
    Visionman said:
    So a user who is with Plusnet and already owns a YouView box decides to leave Plusnet and move to TalkTalk. But because TTs servers detect he has a box he automatically gets charged £4 a month and the onus is on HIM to cancel it?

    Thats not a Stealth Charge, thats a disgrace. And what a cock up. I hope the name of the Exec board member responsible for this mess comes out because they have a lot to answer for.
    No, he’s a TalkTalk customer, and one from back when TV was bundled in, not a ‘brand new customer’ from the current regime where TV is clearly separate; and he is not being charged for having or using a YouView box, he is being charged for the ‘privilege’ of being able to choose to have Boosts.

    It would likely be the same even if he had a Humax box, just as long as there is nothing to prevent him from taking Boosts.

    I expect Michael O’Leary will be round there soon to sit at the feet of the masters and see if he can adapt any of their wheezes for use at Cry-in-air, but what TalkTalk did here was entirely in accord with their stated new arrangements.
    For those familiar with Red Dwarf, the internet seems to be divided into those who find it fascinating that Kryten is named after J.M. Barrie’s ‘The Admirable Crichton’, and those who think ‘So what?’
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,837Member ✭✭✭
    John29 said:

    Oh well, now there's a thread that's properly titled that's linked to that discussion.
    Except it isn't.   :)

    @Sarah Could you merge/remove as appropriate please?


  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,336Member ✭✭✭
    "I have never, ever, in the past been a Talktalk customer, ever."

    Forgive the confusion Roy, but the above says he isn't and wasn't.
  • John29John29 Posts: 40Member
    Roy said:
    Visionman said:
    So a user who is with Plusnet and already owns a YouView box decides to leave Plusnet and move to TalkTalk. But because TTs servers detect he has a box he automatically gets charged £4 a month and the onus is on HIM to cancel it?

    Thats not a Stealth Charge, thats a disgrace. And what a cock up. I hope the name of the Exec board member responsible for this mess comes out because they have a lot to answer for.
    No, he’s a TalkTalk customer, and one from back when TV was bundled in, not a ‘brand new customer’ from the current regime where TV is clearly separate; and he is not being charged for having or using a YouView box, he is being charged for the ‘privilege’ of being able to choose to have Boosts.

    It would likely be the same even if he had a Humax box, just as long as there is nothing to prevent him from taking Boosts.

    I expect Michael O’Leary will be round there soon to sit at the feet of the masters and see if he can adapt any of their wheezes for use at Cry-in-air, but what TalkTalk did here was entirely in accord with their stated new arrangements.
    No, read that again.

    That's not a customer from when TV was bundled in, that's a customer who migrated to Talktalk in November (only 2 months ago) and took out a broadband/phone only package.

    Simply for having a Huawei branded YouView box they have been "opted in" to what they call "a TV access fee".

    The YouView box was NOT issued to this customer by Talktalk.

    The exact same thing has happened to a member on ThinkBroadband. It may be the same user but it doesn't look like it.

    That's a whole different level to what was already an outrageous change in policy, and 1 that I think warrants a comment from YouView.
  • Louise MurdochLouise Murdoch Posts: 38Administrator admin
    Threads have been merged, a redirect link will stay up for the time being.
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,837Member ✭✭✭
    Oops, thanks @Louise , should have asked you, too. Unless it's a spooky coincidence!
  • John29John29 Posts: 40Member
    edited 17 January 2019, 5:06PM
    Louise said:
    Threads have been merged, a redirect link will stay up for the time being.
    Threads have been merged with the title still making out this is a good thing from Talktalk.

    Will I repost with the correct title and link to here or are you going to edit the title?

    This is an absolute outrage and there should be a prominent thread on YouViews forum about it.

    edit: nvm I see the original thread title remains prominent enough.
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,837Member ✭✭✭
    @John29 Your topic title was inaccurate, this one isn't.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,073Member ✭✭✭
    edited 17 January 2019, 5:11PM
    Visionman said:
    "I have never, ever, in the past been a Talktalk customer, ever."

    Forgive the confusion Roy, but the above says he isn't and wasn't.
    The above, if we are talking about the same posting above, the one that John29 quoted, says that he wasn’t a customer then. But he is a customer now, since November 2018.

    When did TalkTalk start treating TV as separate from just taking their broadband generally? We have been told they used to give YouView boxes out with no (apparent) further obligation.

    But we certainly might wonder if they can tell their TalkTalk TV customers from their non-TV, but YouView-box-using, customers.

    Someone on the TalkTalk forum was suggesting TalkTalk can’t tell if you actually have a YouView box or not since all updates come from YouView servers, but I think that is nonsense, as all the traffic flows through TalkTalk’s internet servers. 

    Though Karl, an OCE there, did seem to be suggesting that the particular trigger for box detection was an update request coming up the wire to TalkTalk’s servers, irregardless of where that request is satisfied from.
    For those familiar with Red Dwarf, the internet seems to be divided into those who find it fascinating that Kryten is named after J.M. Barrie’s ‘The Admirable Crichton’, and those who think ‘So what?’
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