Puzzled

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  • scottscott Posts: 1,926Member ✭✭✭
    edited 4 March 2019, 8:50AM

    @Roy yes totally agree with everything you say. I believe the code bases are the same but features are supressed by the different platforms (something Visionman wants to argue with but doesn't present any evidence why he believes it isn't the case). The players I would suspect are probably not there unless the platform allows them to be added as a separate 'app'.

    Therefore I believe a simple change in the platform configuration script could allow previously hidden (supressed) features to magically appear without any software update (of course you need the software to be at a high enough level to have passed the one with those features in the first place, something BT have fallen behind slightly but expect to change shortly). 

  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,929Member ✭✭✭
    scott said:
    @roy - sorry early morning so not quite got my head working. Regarding your theory about the update to the iPlayer, the iPlayer restart has been working on the retail T2000 since 31.56 (August I think) so why would there be a change to the iPlayer to allow the BT boxes to spring into life, also it would still need the code to be in the software to allow the GUI the show up, a player update would not suddenly allow functionality on the box GUI if it wasnt there anyway. So I still stand by my statement that the boxes always have the code built.
    i believe someone with a BT box using it on a TalkTalk line still gets the Amazon app as I thought I saw mentioned on the TalkTalk forum.
    My retail box still has discover and watchlist on a BT isp so the features stay available or not depending on the box not the isp. The isp just dictates the colour scheme.
    Another thing men of my calibre  :p never know is when various features hit the retail YouView official releases, as my T4000 is my only box that isn’t jiggered about with.

    So my theory may well fall to the ground based on the timing of when a BBC iPlayer with the restart feature was first available.

    But I hope I made clear that it still depends, as you say, on the code preexisting in the software, biding its time until the feature in the Player is available.

    Of course, if it does fall to the ground, we are back in the Puzzled state  :/

    I’ve covered your other points, I hope, in the portmanteau posting above.
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,929Member ✭✭✭
    scott said:
    Visionman, at the risk of boring everybody, I have been told it is a commercial decision by BT not to utilise discover and watchlist, therefore in my opinion it is BT’s agenda to push its customers to the BT player to discover content and not turn on this feature. I have also stated why I think the code is there.
    Now try putting your proper argument as to why I am wrong rather than your childish, I know you are you said you are, argument.

    P.S the only reason I am even replying is because the strong winds are keeping me awake :)
    I can see why BT might not want Discover if they have something they think is better, or more advantageous to them, in BT TV, but not why they would want to suppress Watchlist.

    And as to BT putting pressure on YouView to suppress certain features right across the common code base, don’t you think that might explain the inordinate delay in us getting proper Hide Channels, because BT want still to push their subscription channels at BT subscribers who don’t have BT TV, in Search and elsewhere, rather than us hiding them and their results out of sight and out of mind?
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,265Member ✭✭✭
    Hi Roy,

    I know you have a brain the size of a planet (or perhaps that was Keith) but heres a memory jog, if one was needed -

    "We are committed to continuously develop and improve the experience using the advances in technology in order to serve viewers and meet the ambitions of our partners.
    Our new Cloud infrastructure helps us achieve this by bringing more flexibility for our partners to tailor their YouView offering according to their needs. As a result devices may vary in functionality, features, Players or Apps."

    https://community.youview.com/youview/discussion/7604247/youview-statement-on-box-updates/p1

    Which was followed by -

    “Hi Everyone,

    I can confirm that the statement that YouView have released over on their community is correct. Things will be a little different from now on, we’ll bring new features and updates to BT set top boxes based on our customer feedback rather than generic updates across BT, TalkTalk and Plusnet."

    https://community.bt.com/t5/YouView-from-BT/Future-box-update/td-p/1813462

    So in my view (and my view only) there is no conspiracy theory at play here, just divergence. 



  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,929Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2019, 12:32PM
    @Visionman

    That was probably Keith, though I have been described as more mercurial than saturnine  :p

    I’m not generally big on conspiracy theories, as operating most of them would demand a degree of competence not generally observed in such undertakings. So I generally reckon that cock-up, rather than conspiracy, rules most things.

    And I do know that the YouView offerings are moving apart, with TalkTalk no longer guaranteeing that their YouView service will work on any but their own subscriber boxes, for instance, though I don’t think it’s come to that yet.

    But we must be ready for an influx of ‘I can’t get (xxx) from BT to work on my T2000 even though I have a BT TV subscription’. Though I don’t think we’ve seen any such yet here; have you seen any on the BT Community?

    But actually, when you think about my hypothesis, what you are saying supports it, rather than going against it.

    We are not talking here about box differences; we are talking about the across-the-board absence of the remaining features that Hide Channels had on OldGen.

    As you correctly observe, platform divergence means that BT could perfectly well keep the current Hide Channels functionality, while Retail (something curiously absent from your second quote above, I notice, which tells you something about how BT view things) could go on and implement it completely again.

    Yet this isn’t happening. Anyone able to confirm this is cock-up rather than conspiracy?

    But while ‘conspiracy’ is far from proven, the lack of further Hide Channels progress would meet the competence test here.

    I would though, be very happy to be proved wrong, mainly by seeing the missing features released after all.

    But suppressions happen - ‘doing a Visionman’, I have secret arcane knowledge of a suppression (though not applied against YouView) that happened, but which I can’t talk about....

    EDIT: added ‘not’ in front of talking, above, as I intended to say.
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,812Member ✭✭✭
    The availability of Amazon Prime Video on TalkTalk, albeit via a BT box, is news to me. Anybody got a link to a source?
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,265Member ✭✭✭
    @Roy - no its neither a cock-up nor conspiracy.

    @redchiz - Any BT supplied box can provide Amazon on any line, but it has to have been provided by BT, as at the moment they are the only ones with it.
  • scottscott Posts: 1,926Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2019, 1:02PM

    @redchiz you could ask this guy (post #6)

    https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2300336/does-talktalk-youview-have-bt-sport-now-tv-netflix-or-amazon-prime

    'I take the TalkTalk service, but on a BT box. Apologies, I didn't know that it had not come to the Huawei boxes. Another reason for TalkTalk subscribers to invest in a retail BT box if they are dissatisfied with the Huawei offering. Not only is it much quicker, but you can get Prime Video on it as well. What I don't get (yet) is Discover and Action Panel. I live in hope.'

  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,812Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks @scott, certainly haven't seen anything to that effect on the TT forums. Although his suggestion is duff is it not, as a BT retail box does not carry Amazon Prime?
  • scottscott Posts: 1,926Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2019, 1:53PM

    From everything I see the retail BT boxes should also have the Amazon app (they are on the same software as the non retail versions). I can't say for certain as don't have one but the guy in the post has a T2110 and says he has it. Can anyone with a retail BT branded humax box confirm or deny either way.

    The software announcements YouView make never ever seem to mention to retail BT boxes (T2110 or T2210) so hard to dissect from the announcement (the 31.69 announcement only quotes T2100 and T2200 boxes but the latest software screen says the retail T2110 and T2210 are also on this version).

  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,265Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2019, 2:04PM
    scott said:

    From everything I see the retail BT boxes should also have the Amazon app (they are on the same software as the non retail versions). I can't say for certain


     Oh dear. I appear to have made a mistake. Whilst I have been talking to "scott", I thought it was our "scott" who is a knowledgeable YouView user and multi-platform seasoned trialist. But it has become obvious now I wasn't. And thats only my fault. My apologies, and completely my fault. I won't be doing that again. 
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,929Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2019, 5:41PM
    Visionman said:
    @Roy - no its neither a cock-up nor conspiracy.
    Like there’s any way you could possibly know that.

    Who told you - the ‘wrong scott’?
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • scottscott Posts: 1,926Member ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2019, 6:00PM
    I presume it was a dig at my lack of knowledge on retail BT boxes. I know there are plenty of things I don’t know, get wrong or have a good discussion about differing ideas. Happy to discuss with anybody who wants a proper discussion but not interested in just digs, there are plenty of better things to do or test  :)
  • Rob PRob P Posts: 45Member
    edited 6 March 2019, 9:49PM

    scott said:

    From everything I see the retail BT boxes should also have the Amazon app (they are on the same software as the non retail versions). I can't say for certain as don't have one but the guy in the post has a T2110 and says he has it. Can anyone with a retail BT branded humax box confirm or deny either way.

    Yes the Amazon Prime Video app is indeed present on my BT retail T2110 box. I don't have a subscription to this (nor to BT, my ISP is Vodafone) but it certainly loads up OK
  • scottscott Posts: 1,926Member ✭✭✭
    So I am correct that the BT retail boxes also have Amazon. Thanks for the confirmation.
  • scottscott Posts: 1,926Member ✭✭✭
    Can I also please ask people for some more confirmation. Can people with BT boxes other than the T4000 confirm that they don’t have iPlayer restart. I have been told it is only on 31.108 but not had that confirmed.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,265Member ✭✭✭
    The information is contained here -
    https://support.youview.com/youview-box/software-updates/latest-software-versions

    Just click on the blue links for the relevant info.
  • scottscott Posts: 1,926Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks Visionman but that will not work. This feature was released about a week ago for BT boxes without a software update, therefore the information will not be contained on those links. The only way I can find out is by people confirming if they have it on their boxes. It has been confirmed it should be available for boxes on 31.108 (T4000) but not sure about T21xx boxes on 31.69. That is what I was trying to find out.
  • Rob PRob P Posts: 45Member
    scott said:
    The only way I can find out is by people confirming if they have it on their boxes. It has been confirmed it should be available for boxes on 31.108 (T4000) but not sure about T21xx boxes on 31.69. That is what I was trying to find out.
    I don't appear to have it; My box is:
    BT Retail DTR-T2110
    31.69.0
    component 3.5.132
    platform config 4430

    I assume I'd see some prompt for this on the screen? I tried holding OK as mentioned elsewhere in the thread but nothing happened. I have an LG  Freeview Play TV upstairs which flashes up a (somewhat irritating) banner to press the green button to restart in iPlayer - definitely not getting anything like that on the youview box
  • skillerskiller Posts: 288Member ✭✭
    My T2100 was on Platform Config 4430 last November and has had at least 2 more updates to its Platform Config since then (4448 and then the current 4467), whilst still remaining on 31.69.0-3.5.132. My T2200 is also currently on 31.69.0-3.5.132 with Platform Config 4467.

    So, from what @Rob P has said above, it would appear that perhaps the BT Retail boxes are still on Platform Config 4430 and the iPlayer Live Restart feature was "turned on" with the introduction of config 4467.

    At least, that's my guess.

    The Platform Config of my T1000 is 4129, but I don't expect that to have kept up with any of the other BT boxes since it was forked off down its own little cul-de-sac last April. But I'd be interested to know what the Platform Config of the T4000 currently is.

    And @scott, can you confirm something for me please as it seems (at least to me) as if you may have contradicted yourself? You said, "Can people with BT boxes other than the T4000 confirm that they don’t have iPlayer restart. I have been told it is only on 31.108 but not had that confirmed", which suggests to me that iPlayer Restart is not on the T4000. But then you said, "It has been confirmed it should be available for boxes on 31.108 (T4000) but not sure about T21xx boxes on 31.69", which suggests to me that it is on the T4000. (Apologies if I've misread what you've written.)
  • scottscott Posts: 1,926Member ✭✭✭
    edited 8 March 2019, 6:01AM
    skiller said:
    My T2100 was on Platform Config 4430 last November and has had at least 2 more updates to its Platform Config since then (4448 and then the current 4467), whilst still remaining on 31.69.0-3.5.132. My T2200 is also currently on 31.69.0-3.5.132 with Platform Config 4467.

    So, from what @Rob P has said above, it would appear that perhaps the BT Retail boxes are still on Platform Config 4430 and the iPlayer Live Restart feature was "turned on" with the introduction of config 4467.

    At least, that's my guess.

    The Platform Config of my T1000 is 4129, but I don't expect that to have kept up with any of the other BT boxes since it was forked off down its own little cul-de-sac last April. But I'd be interested to know what the Platform Config of the T4000 currently is.

    And @scott, can you confirm something for me please as it seems (at least to me) as if you may have contradicted yourself? You said, "Can people with BT boxes other than the T4000 confirm that they don’t have iPlayer restart. I have been told it is only on 31.108 but not had that confirmed", which suggests to me that iPlayer Restart is not on the T4000. But then you said, "It has been confirmed it should be available for boxes on 31.108 (T4000) but not sure about T21xx boxes on 31.69", which suggests to me that it is on the T4000. (Apologies if I've misread what you've written.)
    I have been fishing around a bit to try and confirm. So from what I know now this was turned on with a platform configuration about a week or so ago, definitely for T4000 but I am lead to believe for all BT live software releases (not including the T1xxx as they are pretty much left now).
    @skiller you didn’t say if your T2100 on config 4467 had iPlayer restart or not. Sounds like BT Retail may not have it yet, unless Rob P could do a manual update and get something different.
  • Tim CTim C Posts: 376Member ✭✭
    Both my T4000 & T2100 support BBC iPlayer restart now.
    The T4000 is 31.108/3.5.136 and my T2100 is 31.69/3.5.132.
    Both have platform config of 4467 & ISP config of 21188
    “Where’s ‘Jump to Time’ and all that other OldGen good stuff that was promised to come back, including the proper ‘Hide Channels’ etc etc.., rather than the unnecessary & unasked for that does get added and serves no useful purpose? Give me optional lists as well :) ."
  • Rob PRob P Posts: 45Member
    scott said:
    I have been fishing around a bit to try and confirm. So from what I know now this was turned on with a platform configuration about a week or so ago, definitely for T4000 but I am lead to believe for all BT live software releases (not including the T1xxx as they are pretty much left now).
    @skiller you didn’t say if your T2100 on config 4467 had iPlayer restart or not. Sounds like BT Retail may not have it yet, unless Rob P could do a manual update and get something different.
    Interesting - Still on 4430 and no updates available when I try a manual update.
  • skillerskiller Posts: 288Member ✭✭
    scott said:
    @skiller you didn’t say if your T2100 on config 4467 had iPlayer restart or not. Sounds like BT Retail may not have it yet, unless Rob P could do a manual update and get something different.
    Hi @scott, sorry for the lateness of my reply. Yes, my T2100 does have the feature as I originally confirmed in my first post in this thread on page 1. I agree, it looks like all ISP BT boxes now have it, but not BT retail as yet, as @Rob P's testimony suggests.
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