[Discussion] Humax Retail software update 32.18.10 / 3.6.48

Sarah

Hi all,

Please feel to discuss and provide feedback about the Humax Retail software update 32.18.10 / 3.6.48 here.

This release includes Smart Landing on Watch List and a new error code (YVM217) to indicate that the box is low on disk space.

Thanks,
Sarah 

Biz

This is now the fourth (possibly fifth) "update" to this firmware that has involved pretty much nothing more than a minor change to the GUI, a change that usually mirrors an existing feature by moving\copying code from A to B in the GUI and labelling it as something else.

Is it the policy of the development staff behind this firmware now to only maintain the stability of this software rather than build on it? Minor tweaks, bug fixes and new Error Codes are maintenance - adding new requested features, new switchable Menu options, fixing substantial problems (e.g. inability to remove titles from the Search facility without factory resetting the device) is development.

Has proper development of this software stopped?

robotman

You bring up a very reasonable question and your summation of recent 'developments' couldn't be more accurate. It shouldn't be too long however until those with Youview blinkers on jump on what you've said 

Roy

Of course development hasn’t stopped. 

This is it, with all teams working flat out 

The mountain has laboured and given birth to a mouse.....

Visionman

Stopped? No. But things have certainly been slow for quite some time.

scott

I think before your comment the six days of no comments after the announcement speaks volumes about what people think about these updates.

I can totally understand YouView are probably working on larger things in the background that they can't mention till they are ready for release and that can make it look like they are doing nothing BUT why continue to release these little picky updates that no-one really cares about when there are some other 'little' releases that people have been crying out for (e.g. Jump to Time, full channel hiding). I really can't fathom how/why YouView development takes some of the paths it does.

Biz

Unlike you I genuinely don't believe that Youview are working on bigger things for this firmware nor have any intentions to do so. The idea that thay are somehow saving all the "good stuff" up for some future release is contrary to the basic concept of software roll-out i.e. if you're making major changes to an existing codebase then you do it in stages and not dump all the changes on everyone in one go.

It is obvious that the last four\five\six updates have put this software in a developmental "holding pattern", not really going anywhere. Some of the feature requests such as Jump To Time or really anything more complicated than adding some text to the GUI are, again, something I genuinely believe are beyond the remit of Youview both now and in the future. As to why, I'm not privvy to the internals of Youview so can't say, but as you and others have pointed out some of these requested changes are really trivial in nature and the fact they haven't been addressed in the past is a pretty good indication that they won't be addressed in the future.

If there is any major software development going on then I suspect it's not for existing hardware, if for no other commercial reason than announcing brand new hardware with innovative, exciting additions and features would be an incentive to existing users to upgrade (spend money) to get this hardware. But if the existing software does what the new one does then why bother reaching for the wallet?

Visionman

Biz said:

Unlike you I genuinely don't believe that Youview are working on bigger things for this firmware nor have any intentions to do so. The idea that thay are somehow saving all the "good stuff" up for some future release is.....

Just one point here if thats OK?
Yes it been slow but no one has said YouView are saving all the "good stuff" up for some future release, because no one ever knows. 

jonesh

robotman said:

You bring up a very reasonable question and your summation of recent 'developments' couldn't be more accurate. It shouldn't be too long however until those with Youview blinkers on jump on what you've said 

Have you seen any of those with Youview blinkers on @robotman? They are out there, you know. Unicorns keep them as pets .

robotman

jonesh said:

robotman said:

You bring up a very reasonable question and your summation of recent 'developments' couldn't be more accurate. It shouldn't be too long however until those with Youview blinkers on jump on what you've said 

Have you seen any of those with Youview blinkers on @robotman? They are out there, you know. Unicorns keep them as pets .

Surprisingly the usual suspects have actually voiced their own misgivings this time around which is a very healthy departure from some of the 'Youview can do no wrong' mantra which has been the norm for so long now. Reading a little dissent from their 'followers' might just make someone at Youview sit up and take notice....although that would be a first for them  You are absolutely correct though @jonesh when you agree the 'blinkers brigade' are indeed out there, though whether or not unicorns keep them as pets would be something better known by my children than by me  

Back on topic though, there is so much functionality which Youview have never re-introduced, and one has to believe will never now bring back, to make you wonder if even they know what their true direction is going forward

We can only hope for better

scott

I would suggest the ‘usual suspects’ as you put it, always voice thier misgivings but also voice when people are being overly critical. This is a good forum (yes things get a bit overheated at times but that is just usual forum behaviour where people get a bit carried away - something we are all guilty of) with lots of help and lots of opinions (both good and bad) and lots of thoughts about what may/will happen in the future.
We know development is happening, BT have recently released the Amazon app and we know they are working hard on a summer NowTV launch (this probably includes a lot of YouView developers time) and hopefully some of this will come into retail also. YouView have also stated they are working on Alexa integration, now all these things could never actually make it to release but they will still always take development time. Now we could all argue about the priority of what things are being developed but unfortunately we would all have different ideas about which are the most important so YouView have to take their own route (however bizarre thier choices seem to be ).
So I don’t agree with the path of development but I wouldn’t also accuse YouView of not developing at all (how often do we see improved functional releases on hardware boxes from sky and virgin for example).
I am sure we will get some people jumping on this post saying I am a YouView groupy but I am fine with that as long as people realise we all have an opinion (right or wrong) and are free to voice it.

robotman

@scott

Refreshing to see a measured, honest, and accurate take on all things Youview. You are correct to assume a lot of time is being taken up on the development of integrating NowTV into BT Youview, something I'm quite looking forward to seeing the final results of

I should add I have absolutely no agenda here, have no issue with anyone posting on this forum, and am more than happy to converse with anyone who might disagree with my take on things at times. Like you say, that's what being part of a community is all about, being able to share your own views, respect those of others, no matter how bizarre they may seem at times and receiving the same amount of respect and understanding in return.

I'm not a Youview 'groupie', but I am very keen to see the platform progressing (including listening a little closer to OUR wishes) as it's the platform I've nailed my mast on

Onwards & upwards as they say

BTW, there's only one 'development' I'll never be a part of, and that's Alexa as I've strong feelings about the intrusion and privacy issues it brings with it, although I'm fully aware some people have no care whatsoever for their right to privacy or being 'spied' on by Big Brother (but that's a whole new thread on its own

Biz

scott said:

We know development is happening, BT have recently released the Amazon app and we know they are working hard on a summer NowTV launch (this probably includes a lot of YouView developers time) and hopefully some of this will come into retail also.
.
.
So I don’t agree with the path of development but I wouldn’t also accuse YouView of not developing at all (how often do we see improved functional releases on hardware boxes from sky and virgin for example).

Why is why I have gone out of my way in these postings to refer to "this firmware" i.e. for Humax Retail boxes like mine. I didn't say that Youview weren't developing software "at all" I said they weren't developing firmware for this device per se, hence I asked "Has proper development of this software stopped?" (emphasis added) Your comment that they may be busy working on software for other platforms seems to support my view that no effort is being spent on enhancing this firmware.

I also draw a distinction between the core functions of how the box operates and add-ons such as Players and external Apps. Development of NowTV or Amazon capabilities will be made available not by a firmware change but by the 'Update Players and Apps' ability of the box.

If the most users of current Humax Retail hardware can now expect is a 'dribble down' of functionality created for other hardware platforms then I think I've answered my own question, though it would be nice if a representative from Youview would comment on this just to clear things up once and for all. Feedback not acknowledged is just shouting into the wind.

Visionman

@Biz -  I'm sure you'll appreciate that stating you don't count the development of new features for apps as development at all and only class OS core functions as development is a highly personalised point of view that not all may agree with.

Biz

I class development of Apps as development of Apps. I class development of box firmware as development of box firmware. While it is obvious that development of Apps is carrying on apace my question is about development of box firmware, specifically Humax Retail firmware which, for at least the last five updates, has been perfunctory and minor in nature. When you announce that you've added a New Error code as 50% of an update's changes then I (personally as you point out) start seeing my doubts confirmed.

Until someone from Youview posts otherwise I am willing to accept the postings from Members I've read so far in that the resources that should be allocated to adding functionality and features to the Humax Retail firmware - including those that once existed but have been excised from it for some reason - are being allocated elsewhere. While I accept it I don't have to like it hence the feedback. Other people will have different opions to mine of course, and none of us will be proved 'right' or 'wrong' until, for the third time of asking, someone from Youview passes relevant comment.

Visionman

Hi @Biz - Bearing in mind I have multiple devices, as things stand at the moment Retail devices actually contain and have more core features than their ISP equivalents. Indeed it is the ISP users who are calling for their platforms to be brought up to spec with YouViews Retail core specs. Its a funny old world. Though please note I do have a degree of sympathy and agreement with what your saying. Though demanding asking for [Edited] a YouView rep come on here to explain their future plans for the platform isn't one of them as they never do that and never will, because thats not broadly speaking the purpose of this forum, as it is in the main a user to user forum with a light touch from the YouView team.

robotman

@Biz I agree with @Visionman when he says it's the ISP users who have more to complain about than retail users. As a BT customer I'm looking forward to NowTV in full on BT Youview BUT I'm also very disappointed BT haven't seen fit to include a lot of the options that retail box users have access to (eg. WatchList & Discover to name but two).

Biz

I think you'll see by looking at my posts that I have never, in your words, "demand[ed] a YouView rep come on here to explain their future plans for the platform" but merely asked if they could comment on a question I raised. I'm at a loss how a question can be intepreted as a demand and how asking for "a relevant comment" turns into a request to be told the "future plans for the platform" but each to his or her own.

Rather than my comments be open to further misinterpretation, innocent or wilful, I am going to bow out of this Thread. I have posted my feedback (as requested in the OP) , stated my opinions and the reasons for those opinions and have no wish to keep banging on the same drum over and over again.

Have a Nice Day.

Visionman

I have edited my last comment above for clarification. 

Roy

Biz said:

scott said:

We know development is happening, BT have recently released the Amazon app and we know they are working hard on a summer NowTV launch (this probably includes a lot of YouView developers time) and hopefully some of this will come into retail also.
.
.
So I don’t agree with the path of development but I wouldn’t also accuse YouView of not developing at all (how often do we see improved functional releases on hardware boxes from sky and virgin for example).

Why is why I have gone out of my way in these postings to refer to "this firmware" i.e. for Humax Retail boxes like mine. I didn't say that Youview weren't developing software "at all" I said they weren't developing firmware for this device per se, hence I asked "Has proper development of this software stopped?" (emphasis added) Your comment that they may be busy working on software for other platforms seems to support my view that no effort is being spent on enhancing this firmware.

I also draw a distinction between the core functions of how the box operates and add-ons such as Players and external Apps. Development of NowTV or Amazon capabilities will be made available not by a firmware change but by the 'Update Players and Apps' ability of the box.

If the most users of current Humax Retail hardware can now expect is a 'dribble down' of functionality created for other hardware platforms then I think I've answered my own question, though it would be nice if a representative from Youview would comment on this just to clear things up once and for all. Feedback not acknowledged is just shouting into the wind.

YouView don’t develop firmware, they develop software, common software that operates above the firmware level. Firmware is developed by the box manufacturers, in this case Humax and Huawei, and should require little or no  further development.

Though some software changes do require firmware changes; and sometimes firmware is found wanting, and has to be patched, as for various cases of failed recording with Humax boxes. And although I’m not aware of any Huawei firmware patches that were ever needed, perhaps there have been some in the past.

jonesh

robotman said:

jonesh said:

robotman said:

You bring up a very reasonable question and your summation of recent 'developments' couldn't be more accurate. It shouldn't be too long however until those with Youview blinkers on jump on what you've said 

Have you seen any of those with Youview blinkers on @robotman? They are out there, you know. Unicorns keep them as pets .

Surprisingly the usual suspects have actually voiced their own misgivings this time around which is a very healthy departure from some of the 'Youview can do no wrong' mantra which has been the norm for so long now. Reading a little dissent from their 'followers' might just make someone at Youview sit up and take notice....although that would be a first for them  You are absolutely correct though @jonesh when you agree the 'blinkers brigade' are indeed out there, though whether or not unicorns keep them as pets would be something better known by my children than by me  

Back on topic though, there is so much functionality which Youview have never re-introduced, and one has to believe will never now bring back, to make you wonder if even they know what their true direction is going forward

We can only hope for better

@robotman

In my five years of membership of this forum I have seen no evidence of there being a "'Youview can do no wrong' mantra". My observation is that the opposite is true. Evidence of this is @Keith's Consolidated list of improvements and feature requests, which is regularly updated in response to suggestions made by forum members.

Some very knowledgeable people make frequent contributions to the forum. They have wide experience of the various TV platforms and they regularly give their time freely to share their knowledge and to help people with problems that they might be experiencing with their home setup.

You might consider this in future before you refer to fellow forum members as "those with Youview blinkers on" or as "the usual suspects".

fusemunk

@robotman - NowTv has been built into the TalkTalk offering for a long time - both on the Humax and native TT box. I think your BT inclusion may be more of a commercial issue.  TT just introduced Amazon Prime to its boxes, although no Amazon on Humax TT boxes yet.
So with TT you have an integrated NowTV, Netflix and Prime, which when having three set up in multi room works very well for me.
Overall I agree with comments above - no stated vision feels like blind leading the blind.

Roy

fusemunk said:

@robotman - NowTv has been built into the TalkTalk offering for a long time - both on the Humax and native TT box. I think your BT inclusion may be more of a commercial issue.  TT just introduced Amazon Prime to its boxes, although no Amazon on Humax TT boxes yet.
So with TT you have an integrated NowTV, Netflix and Prime, which when having three set up in multi room works very well for me.
Overall I agree with comments above - no stated vision feels like blind leading the blind.

You get Entertainment and Sports, as well as just Movies?

I must alter my operating assumptions if so.

robotman

@Roy @fusemunk
According to this https://help.nowtv.com/article/NOW-TV-shows-that-aren-t-available-on-YouView it's only Movies on Youview regardless of it coming from Talk Talk or BT. There is nothing on the Talk Talk website to contradict that.

Visionman

Sorry for being dense @robotman - Now TV on retail only includes movies yes, but whats your overall point?

fusemunk

@robotman - fair point I saw the NowTv in the TT Youview and assumed it offered a full range of content. I have Sky Channels, On Demand and Sky Sports on TT so never needed to use it.

robotman

Visionman said:

Sorry for being dense @robotman - Now TV on retail only includes movies yes, but whats your overall point?

I have no ulterior motive if that's what you think. I'm not an agitator as I have no qualms with this service, after all I'm a BTTV customer. Sorry if maybe I have come across that way???

I wasn't making a point per se. I was responding to a claim further up that the full NowTV experience was on Talk Talk boxes, and a comment following immediately on from that by @Roy  

Roy

robotman said:

Visionman said:

Sorry for being dense @robotman - Now TV on retail only includes movies yes, but whats your overall point?

I have no ulterior motive if that's what you think. I'm not an agitator as I have no qualms with this service, after all I'm a BTTV customer. Sorry if maybe I have come across that way???

I wasn't making a point per se. I was responding to a claim further up that the full NowTV experience was on Talk Talk boxes, and a comment following immediately on from that by @Roy  

@robotman

Be assured that you did not come across as an agitator, in this area at least, (though I guess that earlier ‘blinkered’ remark must have stung, which is perhaps why @Visionman was being a little combative ), while we worked together constructively to tease out the reality behind @fusemunk’s misconception that NowTV had the full service on TalkTalk, as expressed in my question above.

robotman

@Roy @Visionman
I understand my earlier comments may have struck a little close to home for some people but having lurked around here for a very long time, and from experiences expressed by others here and elsewhere, I was only saying at the time how I perceived this forum, or more importantly some of the people who take part in it and their dismissive and belligerent attitude to anyone who refuses to share their views.

Anyhow, to get back on topic, I can only repeat what I said above, and that is that my response was simply responding to the misconception you refer to. It was in no way a disparaging comment on the Youview brand as a whole. I'm all for constructive criticism where appropriate but this was in no way me being critical of Youview/BT/Now tv.

As a BT TV customer I thoroughly enjoy my Youview experience and am looking forward to the full integration of Now TV into that platform 

**To anyone I've upset previously, I am sorry, but I do believe in constructive criticism, whether it's me disagreeing with someone OR them disagreeing with me. I'm man enough to accept whatever is thrown my way, after all I'm old enough to take the knocks and not take them to heart, otherwise I wouldn't be on any forums in the first place** 

Goodbye

Amen  brother 

dreamtime

Spot on there @robotman