Important Information Regarding the Mobile App

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Comments

  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 294
    Same here lifelong BT broadband customer but my bt I'd won't work. Sneaky feeling that bt might try to entice people like us with a bt tv deal, maybe throw in the sport, but why would anyone pay for a glorified freeview service? I did in the distant past to get my hands on a youview box but certainly wouldn't now.
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • jimbjimb Member, Super User Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭
    Roy said:

    ...Behind the scenes, at a guess, TalkTalk were offered the infrastructure behind the App, since the TalkTalk App is just a skin on the YouView App, but declined to take it on, even just for TalkTalk customers, let alone all us retail users...

    ...My wife’s suitably cynical response is ‘follow the money’, a trail that leads straight to BT’s door, but what their motives here might be, I have no idea. Just being a dog on the manger? Or to have their rival YouView Retail and TalkTalk streams crippled by the loss of the App, even at the cost of their own BT Retail stream suffering similar collateral damage?...

    I think 'follow the money' is what it's all about.

    We don't know how many people use the app, but BT will certainly have access to their users' data.
    What if someone in a management meeting said "Hey guys do you realise that our app is being used x thousand times every day? Wouldn't it be great if we were the only people offering it?"
    And then BT used its considerable financial clout to "make it so".
  • JoeJoe Member, Super User Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭
    edited 9 February 2020, 10:49AM
    I haven’t looked into the freeview play situation for a while. Seems to be lots of mention of the Manhattan box, so I guess that’s the strongest competition for Youview retail.
     
    For me looking at the freeview play landscape, I’ve got just as many doubts if not more about the longevity of individual box manufacturers, and the support for their products. Whose to say Manhattan will still be producing and supporting freeview play boxes in a couple of years time? 
     
    However I’m very disappointed by the sudden change in focus of Youview, it seems to be an increasingly fragmented platform where once it’s strength was it’s apparent unity across retail, and the isp’s. 

    If the retail platform has to fend for itself more, will we see manufacturers like Humax picking up the baton and producing supporting apps? Will we see adverts again for the retail platform on tv? If not how will it grow? Without platform wide unity, The smaller arm of Youview retail looks increasingly vulnerable.
    Retail users are still waiting for Amazon prime app to launch. BT and TalkTalk have had it for some time now. It’s a world away from when Netflix launched on Youview platform wide across retail and the isp’s.
     
  • GRUMPYGRUMPY Member Posts: 7
    mmmm
    We are not removing the YouView community forum as this is a key resource for users looking for help and for us to collect feedback. We greatly appreciate and value the input and time that users have given us over the years and we hope this continues in the future.

    no one will be a youview customer/user as we will all be bt ,tt and sony customers , this site will be very quiet with just 3 "customers "
  • GRUMPYGRUMPY Member Posts: 7
    also why are you still advertising the mobile app on your website 
  • SteamyweeSteamywee Member Posts: 6
    edited 10 February 2020, 11:26AM
    Sarah said:
    Hi @redchiz @Daniel
    We would recommend reaching out to TalkTalk regarding their TalkTalk Planner App. Contact details can be found here
    Thanks,
    Sarah

    Who designed that mesage on your web site?
    It is poorly constructed and lacks a date so reference to "Today" conveys absolutely nothing!
    Just when was "Today"?
    TalkTalk have of course omitted to inform us, their captives of these impending changes.

    Your message goes on to offer hope to us poor saps under the heading:-
    "What are the alternatives to the YouView App – and where can I find them?
    ...which is quickly snatched away from all except BT customers.
    Not conducive to a smooth transition!
  • GRUMPYGRUMPY Member Posts: 7
    there has been a few mentions about a manhattan box so i looked at their website and did not see anything about a mobile app so i emailed them and the reply i had was an app will be released later in the year WITH remote recording 
    😁
  • TomWTomW Member Posts: 501 ✭✭
    edited 10 February 2020, 4:35PM
    This is very disappointing indeed.

    I suspect this is nothing more than a cheap and nasty way for BT to acquire a unique selling point. Not developing new features and not putting back the features that were lost to ‘next gen’ is bad enough but taking away a really useful and long-established feature for the benefit of BT is, quite frankly, taking the p*ss.

    Many of us have paid good money for our YV boxes and bought them at least in part because of the remote recording feature. To have that feature taken away probably isn’t a breach of contract but it most definitely feels like a breach of trust.

    Freeview play boxes are looking like an increasingly tempting option, particularly Manhattan box. I’ll be jumping ship at the earliest opportunity. I long since stopped posting regularly on this forum but this is the final nail in the coffin.
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    edited 10 February 2020, 5:08PM

    @TomW as Sarah has said BT are still only a 1 in 7 equal partner in YouView and therefore would have no right demanding anything is withdrawn purely for its own benefit. It is a pure YouView decision to withdraw support for the remote app. Maybe you should be pointing fingers towards the other 6 partners and asking them why they are allowing YouView to do this.

    I suggest you read Sarah's response, they make the functionality available for 'all' its business partners but 'only' BT have bothered to develop and host it's own app.

    As I have said already I would suggest the removal of funding from the other Partners have left YouView in a position where they are unable to afford to support 'customer only' and have had to move to a different business model of working for its business partner in whatever capacity they will fund and hence can no longer host directly the app but would need the business partner to host it. That would need to be Humax for retail, TalkTalk/PlusNet/BT for ISP (I think Huawei only ever supplied boxes by subscription not on retail sale) and Sony for their TV's.

    As you can see above even the 'manhattan' freeview play box doesn't have a remote app yet till 'later in the year'.

    Humax do 'I believe' have their own remote app for their Freeview play box so it shouldn't be too much of an issue to host one for its YouView boxes but I admit I don't have enough technical knowledge to know how easy this is.

  • TomWTomW Member Posts: 501 ✭✭
    @scott

    If BT are providing the Loin’s share of the funding I hardly think they can be considered “equal partners”.

    And if a manufacturer such as Manhattan, who don’t have any partners can develop and support a remote recording app then it begs the question - why can’t YouView?

    Also let’s not forget many of us have paid money for our boxes. YouView have had their pound of flesh from us and now they’re selling us down the river. There are myriad devices one can buy which have a mobile app and offer continued support for the lifetime of the product. Continued funding is therefore not a prerequisite for app support.
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭

    @TomW Try telling that to Apple/Microsoft etc that you have bought their product and therefore expect them to support it forever. Last time I looked they had a bit bigger bank balance than YouView or Manhattan. you could also say Humax have had their pound of flesh (they didn't give their boxes away) so why are they supporting their freeview play boxes with an app but not their YouView boxes.

    I define 'equal' when all partners have a 14.3% share -


  • TomWTomW Member Posts: 501 ✭✭
    edited 10 February 2020, 6:06PM
    @Scott all my Apple and Microsoft products still work as advertised, despite the fact that some of them have been superseded, whereas YouView has regressed and is still a current product.

    As for Humax, who knows under what terms they were contracted to produce boxes for YouView and FreeView play. Certainly not me. Perhaps they’re afforded the option to customise the FreeView play user experience but not YouView. They’re not a YouView partner or an ISP so it would be odd for them to support app develop on a platform over which they have zero control.

    I define equal as when all partners have equal say. Which even the most rose tinted YouView optimist can surely see isn’t the case when one partner is providing almost all the funding.

  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭
    Basically whats happened is YouView have removed YouView's remote record app. TalkTalk used that app as well only put their own skin on it but now its gone as well. They could support their own but that wouldn't be commercially viable which is why they piggy backed YouViews.

    Why does everyone keep mentioning Humax? Humax have nothing to do with YouView other than making boxes for them made to YouView specifications and there the partnerships ends.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    Visionman said:
    Basically whats happened is YouView have removed YouView's remote record app. TalkTalk used that app as well only put their own skin on it but now its gone as well. They could support their own but that wouldn't be commercially viable which is why they piggy backed YouViews.

    Why does everyone keep mentioning Humax? Humax have nothing to do with YouView other than making boxes for them made to YouView specifications and there the partnerships ends.
    No apparently BT have FORCED YouView to remove the app as they are the only voice in what YouView are and aren’t allowed to do.
  • JoeJoe Member, Super User Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭
    Why does everyone keep mentioning Humax? Humax have nothing to do with YouView other than making boxes for them made to YouView specifications and there the partnerships ends.
    Basically Humax and Sony are  the retail arm of Youview. I guess they lease the software for their boxes/tv’s. 

    They’re mentioned in the same statement along with the ISP’s that Youview put out about their change of business strategy. 

    What I’ve gleaned is that if retail users are ever to get a new mobile app, it will have to in future come from Humax, or Sony. As they’re the business to customer end of the new Youview business strategy. 


  • WilfHWilfH Member Posts: 50
    scott said:
    Visionman said:
    Basically whats happened is YouView have removed YouView's remote record app. TalkTalk used that app as well only put their own skin on it but now its gone as well. They could support their own but that wouldn't be commercially viable which is why they piggy backed YouViews.

    Why does everyone keep mentioning Humax? Humax have nothing to do with YouView other than making boxes for them made to YouView specifications and there the partnerships ends.
    No apparently BT have FORCED YouView to remove the app as they are the only voice in what YouView are and aren’t allowed to do.
    Is there real evidence for this statement?  There is much more to distinguish the BT app from th YV one than just the remote record facility though admittedly as a BT customer I had been using the YVapp rather than the BT one for its pure simplicity. I suspect the real truth here is that YouView are simply cutting their own development overheads. 

    Wilf
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    WilfH said:
    scott said:
    Visionman said:
    Basically whats happened is YouView have removed YouView's remote record app. TalkTalk used that app as well only put their own skin on it but now its gone as well. They could support their own but that wouldn't be commercially viable which is why they piggy backed YouViews.

    Why does everyone keep mentioning Humax? Humax have nothing to do with YouView other than making boxes for them made to YouView specifications and there the partnerships ends.
    No apparently BT have FORCED YouView to remove the app as they are the only voice in what YouView are and aren’t allowed to do.
    Is there real evidence for this statement?  There is much more to distinguish the BT app from th YV one than just the remote record facility though admittedly as a BT customer I had been using the YVapp rather than the BT one for its pure simplicity. I suspect the real truth here is that YouView are simply cutting their own development overheads. 

    Wilf
    There is no proof whatsoever. But certain people will insist it is true.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭
    edited 10 February 2020, 11:16PM
    scott said:
    No apparently BT have FORCED YouView to remove the app as they are the only voice in what YouView are and aren’t allowed to do.

     Prove it.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • andro101010andro101010 Member Posts: 31
    Whilst I love YouView, I have hated the cat-herding difficulties between stakeholders that have resulted in bad decisions like this closure of the app, at a time when I think the EPG should be being integrated into the voice search for Google and Siri/AppleTV! The 2014 review by the BBC of YouView considered that the  iOS and Android app were part of the provision of accessibility features necessary for continued BBC support. The same review also considered that no-one ISP or shareholder was gaining preferential access or dominating the development. The closure of the app is both a blow to accessibility and evidence of a stakeholder exerting greater dominance over the platform.
  • WilfHWilfH Member Posts: 50
    As has been indicated previously there is no demonstrable evidence that BT have forced the closure of the app. This seems however to be the narrative that users of this forum seem to want to encourage in order to have something to rail against. 

    There are many possible reasons why YV may have gone down this route and hopefully it will become clear in due course. My personal suspicion is that this may possibly be because of a change to the infrastructure to support NextGen where old infrastructure needed for the old app is being decommissioned once and for all.   It is common practice for manufacturers to cease support for old or legacy systems as a mechanism to persuade users to buy new kit. Sony seem to do this with boring regularity. My first Sony Blu-ray player had an Amazon Prime app which Sony disabled after a few years rather than update it to a newer version. The fact probably was that the existing app relied on very old hardware and code and wasn’t cost effective for them to support when they could persuade me to buy a new product but it’s still very frustrating. 

    We are pretty sure that BT will launch new hardware in the next few months. It may well be that YV does something similar. 

    Wilf
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 294
    Youview launch a new product 🐃🤣
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    BT launch new hardware in a few months 🤣🤣
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭
    edited 13 February 2020, 12:21AM
    scott said:
    BT launch new hardware in a few months 🤣🤣

    A new 4K box with HDR which will be much faster and run much cooler than the T4000. I don't know why its taken so long to release.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,816 ✭✭✭
    Visionman said:
    scott said:
    No apparently BT have FORCED YouView to remove the app as they are the only voice in what YouView are and aren’t allowed to do.

     Prove it.
    Disprove it.
    Three cheers for reasoned debate, whether for or against
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,816 ✭✭✭
    Visionman said:
    scott said:
    BT launch new hardware in a few months 🤣🤣

    A new 4K box with HDR which will be much faster and run much cooler than the T4000. I don't know why its taken so long to release.
    Perhaps BT are still trying to figure out how to have it run only for BT TV subscribers?
    Three cheers for reasoned debate, whether for or against
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 294
    Considering its sports and box office are encrypted dont think it's tv output would be much of a stretch putting it behind a pay wall for BT
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,089 ✭✭✭
    BT TV is already behind a paywall. I think what Roy was (mischievously) getting at is that they somehow contrive to hobble the box so it will not work at all for other than BT TV subscribers. Of course that cannot happen, but they could adopt a box on loan for the duration model, like Sky Q. Even that would not prevent boxes falling into the hands of third-party resellers.
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    edited 13 February 2020, 2:23PM
    redchiz said:
    BT TV is already behind a paywall. I think what Roy was (mischievously) getting at is that they somehow contrive to hobble the box so it will not work at all for other than BT TV subscribers. Of course that cannot happen, but they could adopt a box on loan for the duration model, like Sky Q. Even that would not prevent boxes falling into the hands of third-party resellers.


    They already have.

    Ownership of broadband hubs and TV boxes

    • As of 13 December 2019, we own all BT Broadband Hubs (Hub 4, Smart Hub, Ultrafast Smart Hub and Smart Hub 2) and TV Boxes (Z4, G4 and G5) sent out to customers. Not applicable for Hubs and Wi-Fi Discs purchased outright.
    • When you replace hubs or boxes, or leave BT, please return those items to us. If the kit is not returned, you may be liable for a charge. Details of charging can be found on the Tariff Guide.
    • You have a total of 60 days to return your items and which includes the time taken for us to send out a jiffy bag.
    • If you prefer, you may also drop your items off in an EE store (see bt.com/returns for more details).
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,089 ✭✭✭
    @scott Yes indeed, I should clarify my point. Current BT boxes are available to purchase via retail. Will this apply to the new one?
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    redchiz said:
    @scott Yes indeed, I should clarify my point. Current BT boxes are available to purchase via retail. Will this apply to the new one?

    @redchiz - I don't think the T4000 was ever offered for retail, was it?
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