Important Information Regarding the Mobile App

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Comments

  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 602 ✭✭
    Totally agree with you Louise73! But don't give up yet. There are many others not happy at the moment.
    John L
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,004 ✭✭✭
    Still doesn’t make a lick of sense.

    YouView continue to have all the development costs of the remote app, so all they are saving is the cost of operating the Retail/TalkTalk server supporting our use of the app, less whatever TalkTalk were paying YouView to run this, revenue they will no longer get.

    And I don’t buy the corporate-speak that YouView are using to describe this; in fact, I am quite insulted by it, as if none of us had the intelligence to discern there’s a lot more to it that we are not being told.

    I‘m still sailing the world - I’m writing this from the bar of the Sydney Opera House at 11:00 am, your midnight - but when I get home, I’ll be looking for a box supplier who shows some signs of valuing my custom.

    Oh - and it’s understandably got a bit fratchy in here recently, but let’s take it out on the company causing it, not each other, huh?


    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 325
    It makes perfect sense. BT wanted exclusive use of the app for its pay tv.
    It wasn't an intended attack on retail. 
    God knows I miss it just as much as everyone else but the rational is plain to see.
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    edited 6 March 2020, 8:51AM
    YouView app being pulled is absolutely nothing to do with BT and all to do with YouView not wanting to spend, so everyone can stop blaming BT and direct your questions straight to YouView and it’s server setup.
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 602 ✭✭
    Roy said:
     but let’s take it out on the company causing it, not each other, huh?

    Totally agree Roy! It's Youview that is upsetting retail customers that have invested their hard earned money in purchasing the boxes in "good faith". When I last looked about 2 weeks ago, shops are were showing retail boxes with Remote app advertised on boxes on display. Youview's web advert still has the Remote App on their video. They might have amended advert webpage a short while ago, but a few days ago when I last checked, video has not changed. Watch this space . . . . John L



    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,101 ✭✭✭
    TalkTalk customers are losing this service too remember. 
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 325
    edited 6 March 2020, 12:32PM
    scott said:
    YouView app being pulled is absolutely nothing to do with BT and all to do with YouView not wanting to spend, so everyone can stop blaming BT and direct your questions straight to YouView and it’s server setup.
    So who actually owns and funds youview?
    And how safe is this particular site?
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    @kodikid YouView is jointly owned by BBC, ITV, CH4, CH5, Arqiva, Talk Talk and BT.
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 325
    Is that the same BBC/ITV that own Britbox, you know the one that's not currently available on youview..

    you have to question their commitment to the cause 🤔
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,866 ✭✭✭
    kodikid said:
    Is that the same BBC/ITV that own Britbox, you know the one that's not currently available on youview..

    you have to question their commitment to the cause 🤔

    I'm sorry for saying but you literally know nothing. But what you are doing is throwing a hissy fit aiming your barbs at BT and YouView. YouView is fair game but BT? This very strange turn of events is nothing to do with them. It is a YouView decsion and YouViews alone.  
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 325
    edited 7 March 2020, 6:40PM
     Name (or quote) one single negative comment made by myself against either. 

    PS
    Is "youviews " an actual word?
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • MateybassMateybass Member Posts: 13
    edited 7 March 2020, 5:01PM
    It doesn't make any sense, in this expanding world of "the internet of things", to take a backward step from "smart"ness and even less sense instead of just ceasing to update the software, to actually stop it from working all together. I also doubt that it needs an army of software engineers to occasionally update the app software, especially as it was very rarely updated on the android. But why stop people using it all together? Why not just allow it to function as normal for those that still have it, on the understanding that it won't be updated? Or why not open it up to the hobbyist programmers as an open source project, like the old Topfield machines which, because of this approach, were highly regarded?

    We are being told that BT have nothing to do with this but when you have retail, Talk Talk and BT users happily co-existing, then suddenly retail and Talk Talk users are shut out, leaving BT with an app which coincidentally does the same thing, it does seem a bit suspicious. Was there some "encouragement" by BT (the only users that will be able to use a version of the app) so they could have a dedicated system to take on rivals Virgin, Sky etc and blow Talk Talk out of the water?

    I could sign up to BT broadband and get a BT subscription, to continue with youview as before but I don't see why I should change and if this is the only option for youview viewers to keep an app, then it's an ill-thought out policy. Just limiting your customers to BT is effectively what you will do, when potential new youview customers see there is now way to integrate their phone or tablet to their tv box... unless they sign up to BT! Might as well call it BTview...

    Once my box either dies or needs replacing, unless there is an app option, it won't be replaced with another youview box.
  • jimbjimb Member, Super User Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭
    @Mateybass a good post. Thank you. 
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,101 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 March 2020, 5:13PM
    I think there is no mileage in the home brew approach and I shudder at the thought frankly. But like @Mateybass I do wonder at why tripartite support has suddenly become a monopoly? Especially - sorry retail fans - as far as TalkTalk is concerned.
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 325
    I suppose to make a BT subscription attractive it makes commercial sense for them to offer exclusive use of the app.
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    Again everyone making accusations against BT without a shred of evidence. I will state once again try asking YouView what they will be doing on 31st March that will stop their app working and you might start to understand why this is purely a YouView decision.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,101 ✭✭✭
    Some of us are asking that @scott, but answer there is none.   :/
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 March 2020, 7:59PM
    @redchiz I have been told the answer but is obviously not my place to make that public. Nothing sinister from anyone purely a cost decision coupled with a change in business strategy going back to something that happened about a year ago.
    Will freeview play on android TVs move Sony tvs away from even including YouView as an option also going forward.
  • BernoBerno Member Posts: 9
    Where do retail customers stand legally, as an advertised feature has been withdrawn? Surely this is a breach of some consumer law?
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,866 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 March 2020, 8:05PM
    kodikid said:
    I suppose to make a BT subscription attractive it makes commercial sense for them to offer exclusive use of the app.
    That is NOT true as the "The "  app that has been withdrawn has nothing to do with BT as they use their own.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,101 ✭✭✭
    Visionman said:
    That is NOT true as the "The "  app that has been withdrawn has nothing to do with BT as they use their own.
    Really, BT have always had their own app totally unrelated to YouView? I am just getting more confused by the minute. Especially from the posters who appear to have inside information, unlike the rest of us. 
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 325
    edited 7 March 2020, 10:19PM
    scott said:
    @redchiz I have been told the answer but is obviously not my place to make that public. Nothing sinister from anyone purely a cost decision coupled with a change in business strategy going back to something that happened about a year ago.
    Will freeview play on android TVs move Sony tvs away from even including YouView as an option also going forward
    scott said:
    @redchiz I have been told the answer but is obviously not my place to make that public. Nothing sinister from anyone purely a cost decision coupled with a change in business strategy going back to something that happened about a year ago.
    Will freeview play on android TVs move Sony tvs away from even including YouView as an option also going forward.
    Youview themselves have said they are "refocusing " from direct to consumer products and are now only interested in tv tech services direct to its customers...who are apparently 
    BT
    Sony
    Humax and Talk Talk. 

    Me thinks this signals the end of youview in the retail market, so why fund a app in a market it no longer supports. 

    Scotty mate...any vacancies at MI5?
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    kodikid said:
    scott said:
    @redchiz I have been told the answer but is obviously not my place to make that public. Nothing sinister from anyone purely a cost decision coupled with a change in business strategy going back to something that happened about a year ago.
    Will freeview play on android TVs move Sony tvs away from even including YouView as an option also going forward
    scott said:
    @redchiz I have been told the answer but is obviously not my place to make that public. Nothing sinister from anyone purely a cost decision coupled with a change in business strategy going back to something that happened about a year ago.
    Will freeview play on android TVs move Sony tvs away from even including YouView as an option also going forward.
    Youview themselves have said they are "refocusing " from direct to consumer products and are now only interested in tv tech services direct to its customers...who are apparently 
    BT
    Sony
    Humax and Talk Talk. 

    Me thinks this signals the end of youview in the retail market, so why fund a app in a market it no longer supports. 

    Scotty mate...any vacancies at MI5?
    So why do you keep blaming it on BT. I think a job in politics might suit you better :)
  • MateybassMateybass Member Posts: 13
    edited 7 March 2020, 11:31PM
    scott said:
    Again everyone making accusations against BT without a shred of evidence. I will state once again try asking YouView what they will be doing on 31st March that will stop their app working and you might start to understand why this is purely a YouView decision.
    Not making accusations but you've got to admit it doesn't look good if the only customers who will come out of this with a working app are BT customers. Is it any coincidence that BT appear to be launching BT TV, which will be a big competitor for the Youview platform? Have Youview just cut their own throat by alienating Talk Talk, Plusnet, Sony and retail customers?

    As far as 31st March is concerned, my app stopped working last week... that was February! Which was part of my point... why disable the app when they could have just dropped support but kept it active. They have deliberately disabled it by means of software update. Even Microsoft don't deliberately disable older Windows when they stop support. Can you now trust they won't deliberately disable your box too at some point?

  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,004 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2020, 6:30AM
    scott said:
    @redchiz I have been told the answer but is obviously not my place to make that public. Nothing sinister from anyone purely a cost decision coupled with a change in business strategy going back to something that happened about a year ago.
    Will freeview play on android TVs move Sony tvs away from even including YouView as an option also going forward.
    @scott

    I should be decidedly upset if YouView had told you something they hadn’t told me, so I will await the 31st March for YouView’s reasons to become clear with the same scepticism that I await @Visionman’s ‘HDR YouView box’, still in limbo if it even exists.

    For those still puzzled by all this:-

    The remote app relies on a YouView server; once you have paired your remote device with the YouView box, the box sends your details, including the exact set of channels you have, to that central server.

    The app on your device sends your requests to the server. But the server does not contact your box, as this method leads to vulnerabilities, so your box polls the server every so often to see if there are any messages for it from your remote app(s). And goes from there.

    YouView are going to switch off this server. Nothing any of us can do can replace this server.

    But why are they going to switch off this server? If it’s to save money, it’s only going to be a small amount of money, as the design is pretty stable, and can’t be a big maintenance task.

    I could understand it if they were going to stop the whole remote operation, where it seems that every new phone, and every new release of iOS or Android, requires the code to be tweaked to support it.

    But that side of it, they have to keep going, because that feeds into the api they have to supply BT with, and would have had to supply TalkTalk with, if that operation was going to run its own server, instead of piggybacking on, and so ceasing, when the YouView server is ceased.

    (NB TalkTalk users, complain like hell to TalkTalk about them not implementing their own server for this. There’s no reason they can’t, beyond having the will to do this, when the YouView service goes down).

    So the above covers the technical and financial issues. What’s left? Not YouView just needing to save a few pennies, that’s all certain. 

    So I am going to keep thinking the reason behind all this is arm-twisting from BT to give them an exclusive competitive advantage, until somebody from YouView or BT denies this. And not just denies it, but give an explanation for it that I can actually believe.

    The question has also arisen of how YouView is controlled and financed. As a public company, they have to produce accounts that are available for all to see, and the latest are here:-

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07308805/filing-history

    Open the third item down under Filing History, Full accounts made up to 31 March 2019, and have a browse. Pay particular attention to Note 13 on page 22, though this (EDIT) perhaps makes pale into insignificance the net loss of £15,622,756 for 2019 (end EDIT -  sorry, got it backwards at first from what I meant to say).

    If you have a friendly accountant who understands balance sheets, show him these figures and watch his face  :* 

    I wish that if my company had any losses I could transfer them to reserves, and consider myself still as a going concern; but I can’t, so I have to make a profit every year or I go phut   :'(
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    edited 10 March 2020, 10:58AM
    @Roy your post contradicts itself. Where with one hand you talk about turning things off just to save some money isn’t worthwhile (do you have exact costs for running and maintaining a server infrastructure in parallel with a separate one) and the next hand you quote how much money YouView are in the red (Guessing the partners are refusing to further fund the retail only business).
    As you say the ability to run the remote app with an update to its api is possible but it needs someone to pay
  • jimbjimb Member, Super User Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭
    Roy said:
    ...The question has also arisen of how YouView is controlled and financed. As a public company, they have to produce accounts that are available for all to see, and the latest are here:-

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07308805/filing-history

    Open the third item down under Filing History, Full accounts made up to 31 March 2019, and have a browse. Pay particular attention to Note 13 on page 22, though this pales into insignificance beside the net loss of £15,622,756 for 2019. 

    To save people searching for this, have a look at my post here:
    https://community.youview.com/youview/discussion/comment/19003672/#Comment_19003672
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,004 ✭✭✭
    scott said:
    @Roy your post contradicts itself. Where with one hand you talk about turning things off just to save some money isn’t worthwhile (do you have exact costs for running and maintaining a server infrastructure in parallel with a separate one) and the next hand you quote how much money YouView are in the red (Guessing the partners are refusing to further fund the retail only business).
    As you say the ability to run the remote app with an update to its api is possible but it needs someone to pay
    @Scott - I see no contradiction that I have made here. Running the app server might cost a few thousands, maybe even tens of thousands, per annum; but when you are in a £60m hole and losing £16m a year, cutting that out is like rearranging the deckchairs on the Queen Mary 2.

    But I do see a contradiction that you have made - if you are guessing that the partners, of which BT is by far the largest, are refusing to fund any ongoing retail business, then doesn’t that make exactly the point about BT’s influence on this decision that you are seeking to deny?
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • scottscott Member, Super User Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2020, 10:33AM
    @Roy I see no contradiction. Would you be happy for people to take a percentage of your wages/income to pay for your neighbours to have sky.
    It would be entirely ok for BT to not pay for YouView to port their remote record app to new servers purely for retail/TalkTalk customers, that is just business sense not BT being awkward. You need to lobby YouView and TalkTalk asking them to pay the cost. YouView are now supplying its OS to each manufacturer and each manufacturer will pay them for what they want. Therefore Humax/YouView/TalkTalk need to find the funds and customer pressure needs to be applied there not crying that their better off neighbour won’t pay for them to have it.
    YouView themselves have said their remote app is available to any manufacturer/supplier who pays for it so how can this be BT possibly stopping anyone from doing it... total garbage.

    Anyway I am bored (as I am sure most others are) of this blame game so people are free to carry on blaming whoever they want if that makes them feel better. I won’t comment anymore. Enjoy your Wednesday everyone.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,866 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2020, 7:40PM
    Well, my own thoughts are that going forward, if anything further happens that retail users aren't happy with, of which I'm one, lets just blame BT for everything. No proof will be required (this is social media after all) just accusations. And with that I'm signing off this thread as well.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
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