Sony Movies duplicated

I receive Sony Movies on channel 32, and also on channel 792. When I record a programme on channel 32 I get two recordings - one from channel 32 and a duplicate from channel 792. I can afford the disk space but it restricts the simultaneous recordings I can make and the channels I can watch simultaneously. Hiding channel 792 has no effect. All help will be gratefully received. Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,019 ✭✭✭
    Hi @JohnHaggerty and welcome to the Community!

    Yes, I can see this duplication - thanks for the heads up.

    This sort of thing happens when there is a channel reallocation, and the old entry goes and lives on a 79x series number, for people who haven’t retuned and whose TVs aren’t as nimble as YouView is.

    Currently, I have 790, 791 and 792 occupied in this way, though both 790 and 791 just tell you to retune. 

    For somebody with a less nimble TV, when they go to 95, Create and Crafters, they will actually be taken to 791, where they will be told to retune. And when they do, they will get the ‘new’ 95 on 95, and the ‘old’ one will show up on 791. For a while, until pretty much everyone interested should have seen this and retuned.

    YouView does this step automagically.

    But it looks as if something has gone wrong, at the Freeview level, with 32/792, since instead of broadcasting the retune notice on 792, the ‘old’ 32, it is still showing the same broadcast as the new 32.

    Which YouView, by automagically retuning, has already got for you on the new 32.

    These channel reallocations can get quite arcane; some YouView can deal with automagically, some it can half deal with, and some it can’t deal with at all.

    But it looks like it has dealt with this one as fully as it can, since I tried a retune, and the 79x channels stayed in place with the 32/792 confusion still extant.

    It may well be a bug that YouView records both, though, or it may be the unavoidable consequence of Freeview possibly getting this wrong.

    Or both; but it’s certainly something that @Sarah ought to take up for us, to find out what’s going wrong here.
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • SarahSarah Administrator Posts: 1,602 admin
    Hiya,
    Thanks for raising this, we'll have a look into it now. I'll let you know when I have updates :)
    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • JohnHaggertyJohnHaggerty Member Posts: 4
    Thanks Roy. At least I know there's nothing more that I can do. And thanks to @Sarah - I'm seriously impressed at how soon this got addressed. I know we all have more important things to worry about at present, but it's still an inconvenience.
  • zulu17zulu17 Member, Super User Posts: 1,022 ✭✭
    The notification about the 15 April Freeview changes
    https://www.freeview.co.uk/15-april-2020-channel-changes

    Has the not very helpful statement that  Sony Movies are changing the way they are broadcast.
  • SarahSarah Administrator Posts: 1,602 admin
    Hiya, 

    The Sony Movies channel moved to a different mux on the 15h April and there is a simulcast on channel 792 on the old mux for the time being. We can see that there are duplicate identifiers in the schedule metadata which would cause the box to record both channels instead of just the one you set to record. We've raised this issue with Digital UK so will update when we get more info :) 

    Thanks,
    Sarah

  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,019 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 April 2020, 2:39PM
    Thanks Roy. At least I know there's nothing more that I can do. And thanks to @Sarah - I'm seriously impressed at how soon this got addressed. I know we all have more important things to worry about at present, but it's still an inconvenience.
    Yep, @Sarah is on it like a tigress🐅 🐯

    I forgot to mention earlier that Hide Channels only works for the EPG. 

    It used to hide them more widely before NextGen, the 2016 revamp of the UI, but the functionality it had then has never been restored 😢

    Though even if it was, this issue might still occur; the YouView box is looking for a thing called a CRID, a flag that should identify a programme uniquely, and if it sees this, it will record the programme, no matter how much the programme’s title, expected time and date, and expected channel may differ from what you set to record. (In fact, it doesn’t care about these things, which is great when your favourite programme is displaced from its expected slot by something unscheduled, possibly delayed and/or moved to a different channel; as long as the broadcaster keeps the same CRID, you get your recording).

    But when the CRID isn’t unique like it should be, and the programmes start at the same time, as in this case, the box gets both, if it can. And a fallback mechanism, to record only one copy, might be tricky to devise, especially if the duplicate CRID was for an entirely different programme; the box would not know which to choose. So getting both, and letting you choose, is safer 😎

    It does know, though, when it has had a programme for a certain CRID, and so won’t (usually!) make a repeat recording from a +1 channel, say. Unless the original recording failed, in which case the +1 may be just the ticket....
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • SarahSarah Administrator Posts: 1,602 admin
    Hiya,

    Our Content team have been in touch with Digital UK and have been informed that due to the way this simulcast channel is set up, the identifiers will be the same as the main channel and so recordings will be duplicated.

    We recommend contacting Sony Movies to feed back any concerns regarding this. The email address for this is: [email protected] 

    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • JohnHaggertyJohnHaggerty Member Posts: 4
    Thanks Sarah.
    I've just emailed the following to them:

    Hi Sony Movies,
    I posted the following on the Youview Community:
    I receive Sony Movies on channel 32, and also on channel 792. When I record a programme on channel 32 I get two recordings - one from channel 32 and a duplicate from channel 792. I can afford the disk space but it restricts the simultaneous recordings I can make and the channels I can watch simultaneously. Hiding channel 792 has no effect. All help will be gratefully received. Thanks in advance.

    Youview Community admin. responded with:
    Our Content team have been in touch with Digital UK and have been informed that due to the way this simulcast channel is set up, the identifiers will be the same as the main channel and so recordings will be duplicated.
    We recommend contacting Sony Movies to feed back any concerns regarding this. The email address for this is: [email protected]

    When do you anticipate that you will have fixed this?
    ...

    I'll update this thread when / if I get a response.
    Regards,
    John

  • zulu17zulu17 Member, Super User Posts: 1,022 ✭✭
    A few observations
    I believe the trigger for the issue is the way Sony Movies tends to broadcast many of their films. They often split their movies into 2 parts with a five minute Sony movie news in the middle.They are not the only channel to do this, but what this means is that the parts of the film need to be linked so they indicate that they are linked within the crid identifier.
    so what I think is occurring here is that  channel 32 has a Programme Crid for the programme and a link identifier for example #1. So I suspect uwhen you select this programme to record the PVR in this case Youview determines that other instances for the same Programme Crid and SAME matching link identifier needs to be recorded. Channel 792 has exactly the same CRID information as Channel 32 so the PVR  finds same matching link information and decides that also needs to be recorded.

    Now if you record a movie that does not have a 5 minute movie news break in the middle , for example Secret Window  scheduled 5pm-6:50pm Friday 24th (tomorrow)  I believe it will only be recorded on Channel 32 as the CRID is a simple unlinked Programme CRID so even though the same Programme CRID data exist for the channel 792 broadcast the fact that the single record request was made on channel 32 means only the broadcast on that channel is scheduled.





  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,019 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 April 2020, 9:50PM
    @zulu17

    That’s a very ingenious theory.

    However, I have just requested the Movie News tomorrow morning at 02:20 AM, and the Teleshopping at 06:00am, neither of which are split, on 32, and I see the duplicate entries from 792 in my schedule.

    Requested on my YouView box since, for some strange reason, the BT TV app does not offer me the chance to record the Movie News, though it would have let me have the Teleshopping, on 32. The BT app stops at 525, so doesn’t show 792.

    You can tell the two recordings apart in Scheduled, as one has the Sony Movies logo, and the other doesn’t.

    I deleted the duplicate Teleshopping, and the one with the logo remained. I deleted the logo’ed Movie News, and both instances went.

    I just tried recording again, with the 9:55pm Movie News from 32, and the 12:25am Movie News from 792. Neither shows up as a duplicate in Scheduled, so my tentative workaround of deleting one duplicate from Scheduled has failed on both counts.

    I will leave the two scheduled Movie News recordings to run, predicting that I will see two copies of each in the morning, and report the results then.
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,019 ✭✭✭
    OK, just checked the first Movie News, and it’s not duplicated. interesting....
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • zulu17zulu17 Member, Super User Posts: 1,022 ✭✭
    @Roy  Movie News , Movie News Extra and Teleshopping on Sony Movies are I believe simple Programme CRIDS  so I would expect them only to record the individual programme on the channel you set the recording on.

  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,019 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 April 2020, 9:47PM
    zulu17 said:
    @Roy  Movie News , Movie News Extra and Teleshopping on Sony Movies are I believe simple Programme CRIDS  so I would expect them only to record the individual programme on the channel you set the recording on.

    Well, I am thoroughly confused now. Early yesterday evening, even the simple CRID programmes were duplicating in the schedule. And I could selectively delete the 792 programme, leaving the 32 schedule intact. Later on, I was getting single schedules only.

    Leaving these to run, I only got the one programme, which points to the schedule being duplicated on the two channels, but the duplication not happening at the point of recording.

    Today, I found every Movie News programme with a recording flag on it, even though I had set only a couple of individual ones of these to record. Which might mean that all these Movie News programmes share a single CRID. And since I didn’t have a raft of the things actually record, this would tend to confirm that, as the YouView box will only record one instance of a CRID, AFAIK, regarding the others as duplicates of it. Even though they aren’t; but the box can’t tell that.

    Tonight, I was only getting single recordings of these simple CRID programmes, though trying to record a movie earlier that was split, I pressed Record on one part, and got four recordings scheduled, Parts 1 and 2, on each of 32 and 792.

    And then deleting one part made all four go away.

    I’ve just repeated this, and got the same results.

    So what I’m seeing tonight fits your hypothesis, @zulu17

    But what I saw last night didn’t. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t mistaken; But the simplest hypothesis is that I was....
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • JohnHaggertyJohnHaggerty Member Posts: 4
    Hi Roy,
    At one point during my experimenting I had a duplicate split recording where I managed to delete a single recording, leaving a duplicate and a singleton. I don't know how I did it but the behaviour did vary, so I believe you weren't mistaken last night.
    Until it gets sorted I'll just record from Sony Movies +1 instead when I can. Not elegant perhaps, but less of a hassle.
  • MAVMAV Member Posts: 1
    Sony Movies recordings are duplicated on my TV. I cannot delete them which means I cannot watch TV when the recording is happening. BT Help help told me to update my software which I did but it made no difference. I have been told to do a factory reset and that this will definitely cure the problem, however I have a lot of films saved that I do not want to lose. Before I do a factory reset can anyone offer any advise. I have tried contacting BT but have to wait for hours and none of the FAQ address this problem.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,019 ✭✭✭
    edited 18 May 2020, 11:27AM
    Hi @MAV and welcome to the Community!

    Yes, Sony Movies is changing channels and muxes, so the old channel has moved to 792. And as they are using the same programme identifiers as the new 32, you get both selected in your schedules.

    See the postings above for more details.

    I can’t speak for BT Help, but I think they gave you bad advice; I know of no YouView software fix for this, and I can’t see how a reset would help either.

    However, a retune that makes 792 go away will fix it. But a retune at the moment may not make it go away; if you can see Sony Movies on 32 and 792, this is it for the moment.

    As above, I did have a play about with this when the issue first arose; I think there was a workaround involving that after you set the recording, you go into Schedule and delete one of the duplicates. Though if this makes both schedule entries go away, or you still get two recordings anyway, or if it works if you record from 792 (which has to be directly on the box, since the BT App does not show 792) rather than 32, I can’t determine; I got conflicting results, which I never sorted out the mechanism behind.

    It has also been suggested that the issue only affects movies which are split over two time slots, with some ‘upcoming movies’ trailer programme in the middle, and not those that are all in one lump. Again, I got apparently conflicting results here.

    But as you are incentivised to find a solution to this, perhaps you could retry these combinations, and see what, if anything works here, and let us know of any successes.

    792 is there because not everyone’s TV is as clever as a YouView box; the box can retune for this, and I expect yours has.

    But for TVs that can’t, when their owners tune to 32, they invisibly get 792 rather than a blank screen.

    But if nothing stops the duplicates, then 792 showing channel 32 programmes is only temporary, and will change to a ‘Retune Now’ notice once Sony acknowledge that everyone ought to have had a reasonable length of time to know they need to retune. And some time after that, 792 will disappear completely, until some other channel needs it for a migration placeholder.
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    Emailing Sony wouldn't do any good unfortunately. I have been emailing them for years about ar issues which they promised to sort but unfortunately are still present. My own opinion of course is it would be a waste of time emailing. 
  • DarrenDarren Member, Super User Posts: 370 ✭✭

    https://www.tvchannellists.com/Forthcoming_changes_to_digital_platforms_(UK_%26_Ireland)
    If you look at  link it shows that Sony Movie channel is due to be removed from Freeview on 22nd June.



  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    Correct me if I'm wrong but that looks like all user generated list. Whosoever published it dont say where the source comes from. It may happen it may not but I think I would like to see a source that's more reliable.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,019 ✭✭✭
    Daniel said:
    Correct me if I'm wrong but that looks like all user generated list. Whosoever published it dont say where the source comes from. It may happen it may not but I think I would like to see a source that's more reliable.
    Yes, it’s a wiki. You can read the About Us if you want to know more.

    If you follow that Note 6 against Sony Movies removal on 22 June, though, you actually reach the current 792 duplicate, with a removal date of 2 June.

    I have absolutely no idea how to contact the site to ask someone to check this discrepancy and the false alarm they have generated here, though, except by signing up, which I don’t want to do.

    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • DarrenDarren Member, Super User Posts: 370 ✭✭
    edited 26 May 2020, 3:11PM
    I only found the link as someone posted it over on the Digital Spy Forums well over a week ago.
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