4k Ultra BT New Box

SerendipitySerendipity Member Posts: 5
I have "upgraded" to the BT 4k Ultra HD Youview box and have scanned for freeview channels, of which there are a grand total of 97.

My old box had 156 channels!

The missing channels include all ITV (HD and SD) and all BBC HD.

I have done several rescans of new box but still get the same channels. I have done a factory reset and then rescan and still same result. I have checked all cables etc. but all to no avail.
I have removed new box and re-installed old box. I rescanned old box for channels and get the same 156 channels including ITV and BBC HD.

I have gone to settings and checked the signal strength and quality on old box. The ITV 1 SD has strength of 60% and quality 90%, ITV1 HD has strength of 75% and quality of 98%; both of these are missing on the new box.

BBC1 HD has strength of 75% and quality of 97% but is missing on new box, whereas the  BBC1 SD has strength of 90% and quality of 100% and is present on new box.

So does anyone have any idea why I cannot scan the missing channels? Is signal strength of 90 % required?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Comments

  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 312
    One of the great things of a subscription is your equipment is under warranty. 
    Get on the phone to BT and give them the same rationale. 
    They have a dedicated team who will assist. 
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 577 ✭✭
    edited 8 July 2020, 8:32PM
    Hi Serendipity,
    When you mentioned you have upgraded to BT Ultra box, was this brand new/unused unit? Why I ask this question, is that if previously used, the channels may need clearing before retuning. I'm sure you may have already done this, but worth asking you.

    If brand new/BT subscription as per kodikid, contact BT directly for more help. They should give you more info, maybe replacement unit if defective.

    If you want to try a retune again, unplug aerial, do a retune to obtain zero channels (clears prev. memory), then replug aerial & have another go at retuning.. 

    Please let forum know if this fixes your problem. The only other thought is recheck your aerial leads & condition of tv aerial. Depending on your area, might be engineering work. We lost a few channels earlier this week that have now reappeared on the Com7/8 inc. QVC HD 111. BBC News HD 107. John L
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 312
    If his old box works perfectly then obviously his aerial is fine.
    All this messing around with retunes /factory resets is boarding on the ludicrous. 
    If you had a brand new car and it wouldn't start you really wouldn't strip the engine to get it going😫.
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 July 2020, 10:11PM
    kodikid said:
    If his old box works perfectly then obviously his aerial is fine.
    All this messing around with retunes /factory resets is boarding on the ludicrous. 
    If you had a brand new car and it wouldn't start you really wouldn't strip the engine to get it going😫.
    I don’t like the Signal Quality being less than 100 on those stated Signal Strengths from the old box, and that sounds to me like noise getting in.

    This happens, typically, if there is industrial equipment nearby, or earthing on the aerial path is bad, or if the aerial cable is run in close proximity to an HDMI cable with indifferent shielding.

    The latter is easy to spot and to fix, the other possibilities less so.

    Having said that, I am not aware that the T4000 is pickier about the aerial signal than earlier boxes; but maybe it is.
    These tests for COVID-19 get right up my nose.
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 577 ✭✭
    Hi Kodikid,
    I think you will find the ignition on a car is slightly different from a TV problem. Box was upgraded, but we don't know if 2nd hand or new. Unless you are a mind reader? I would wait for Serendipity to confirm. He might actually need help if this is the issue. John L
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 312
    edited 8 July 2020, 10:31PM
    John
    You come across as  a really nice bloke and I dont want to be sarcastic or cause you offense...but the title of this thread clearly mentions it's a new box.
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 577 ✭✭
    Kodikid,
    Sarcastic as you might be, await for the user to confirm. Sometimes new isn't always new. John L
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭
     Is signal strength of 90 % required?
    A Signal Strength of 90% isn't required. It can be as low as 50%.
    Signal Quality should be 100%. Anything less means that information is being lost, though you might not be able to detect it.
  • SerendipitySerendipity Member Posts: 5
    Many thanks  for all your replies.

    The box is (so far as I am aware) brand spanking new from BT so there should be no issue there. I had spoken to BT earlier today. I only got as far as the 'front line' advisor and I told him that I had checked cables, re-scanned channels and factory re-set the new box. He wondered whether there were problems with the local transmitter (Winter Hill) and suggested waiting and trying again with re-scans etc. and if that did not work then he would pass me further up the chain of expertise.

    I thought about this and then the idea of reinstating the old box and seeing if this could get the Winter Hill stations after a re-scan. In fact the re-scan produced another 12 channels previously it had 144 and now has 156! 

    I thought I would join here and pose the question and see if I was missing something obvious but the train of thought on here seems to reflect my own impression that there is something amiss with the new box.

    I will give BT a ring tomorrow and will update here with their response.

    Thanks again one and all.

    S
  • SerendipitySerendipity Member Posts: 5
    Roy said:
    kodikid said:
    If his old box works perfectly then obviously his aerial is fine.
    All this messing around with retunes /factory resets is boarding on the ludicrous. 
    If you had a brand new car and it wouldn't start you really wouldn't strip the engine to get it going😫.
    I don’t like the Signal Quality being less than 100 on those stated Signal Strengths from the old box, and that sounds to me like noise getting in.

    This happens, typically, if there is industrial equipment nearby, or earthing on the aerial path is bad, or if the aerial cable is run in close proximity to an HDMI cable with indifferent shielding.


    Thanks Roy.

    There's no industrial equipment nearby but I will try running the aerial cable away from the HDMI cable and replacing the HDMI cable.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭
    John L said:
    Kodikid,
    Sarcastic as you might be, await for the user to confirm. Sometimes new isn't always new. John L
    Indeed. As in the apparent contradiction “My new car is secondhand”. Where ‘new’ is ‘new to me’ 😀
    These tests for COVID-19 get right up my nose.
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 312
    edited 9 July 2020, 9:41AM
    If you upgrade and receive a new, refurbished or used box the point of direction all points to your service provider to rectify when experiencing difficulties. 

    You pay them to provide a service. 
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • SarahSarah Administrator Posts: 1,576 admin
    Hi @Serendipity

    Just to add onto the advice here, I've checked the Winter Hill transmitter and there's no engineering works or signalling issues happening there at the moment so it shouldn't be the transmitter causing this issue to occur.

    As Roy has mentioned, there are other factors which could be playing a part in this so it'd be interesting to know if the issue persists after trying these.
    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • SerendipitySerendipity Member Posts: 5
    I replaced the HDMI cable from old box to TV and kept it away from the aerial into the old box and checked the signal strength on  ITV 1 HD at 75% and signal quality at 100%, so an improvement of quality.

    Emboldened by this, I removed the old box and replaced with the new box. After doing another factory reset I scanned for channels which came back at 152 aerial channels. "Oh good" thought I, as it was pretty similar to the 156 channels of the old box. Alas there was only partial success. I got all the missing SD channels, Itv, Channel 4 etc. but still no HD channels from the aerial.

    So a call to BT. The upshot of which was that the lady on the end of the phone requested more factory resets, scans and we still got the same channels. She indicated that the internet speed was lower than the  contracted minimum, it's running at 20Mbps and should be at least 35 Mbps, and suggested this might be something which could affect the ability of the box. So she has scheduled an engineer to visit early next week. So we will see what happens then.


  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,857 ✭✭✭
    Your internet speed is nothing to do with the amount of Freeview channels received as they are received via and over your aerial, not the internet. Re your internet; you make have a break in your telephone line, and if so your speed will be affected when it rains.  
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 312
    I replaced the HDMI cable from old box to TV and kept it away from the aerial into the old box and checked the signal strength on  ITV 1 HD at 75% and signal quality at 100%, so an improvement of quality.

    Emboldened by this, I removed the old box and replaced with the new box. After doing another factory reset I scanned for channels which came back at 152 aerial channels. "Oh good" thought I, as it was pretty similar to the 156 channels of the old box. Alas there was only partial success. I got all the missing SD channels, Itv, Channel 4 etc. but still no HD channels from the aerial.

    So a call to BT. The upshot of which was that the lady on the end of the phone requested more factory resets, scans and we still got the same channels. She indicated that the internet speed was lower than the  contracted minimum, it's running at 20Mbps and should be at least 35 Mbps, and suggested this might be something which could affect the ability of the box. So she has scheduled an engineer to visit early next week. So we will see what happens then.


    Did they mention any charges?
    If an engineer calls and finds a fault that's not connected to BT they will bill you for the call out.
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭
    kodikid said:
    I replaced the HDMI cable from old box to TV and kept it away from the aerial into the old box and checked the signal strength on  ITV 1 HD at 75% and signal quality at 100%, so an improvement of quality.

    Emboldened by this, I removed the old box and replaced with the new box. After doing another factory reset I scanned for channels which came back at 152 aerial channels. "Oh good" thought I, as it was pretty similar to the 156 channels of the old box. Alas there was only partial success. I got all the missing SD channels, Itv, Channel 4 etc. but still no HD channels from the aerial.

    So a call to BT. The upshot of which was that the lady on the end of the phone requested more factory resets, scans and we still got the same channels. She indicated that the internet speed was lower than the  contracted minimum, it's running at 20Mbps and should be at least 35 Mbps, and suggested this might be something which could affect the ability of the box. So she has scheduled an engineer to visit early next week. So we will see what happens then.


    Did they mention any charges?
    If an engineer calls and finds a fault that's not connected to BT they will bill you for the call out.
    But he didn’t call them out; they volunteered to come.
    These tests for COVID-19 get right up my nose.
  • SerendipitySerendipity Member Posts: 5
    Apparently a 6db attenuator was all that was required. We now have HD and ITV, Channel 4 and 5, etc.
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭
    edited 18 July 2020, 10:18PM
    It's interesting that a Signal Strength reading of 75%+, taken from a Youview box, can be too high.
    There's a 12dB attenuator in our aerial lead and the Youview box gives a reading of 55-65%, depending on the channel.
    The reading from the TV, which gets its signal from the other branch of a two-way splitter, is close to 100%.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭
    edited 19 July 2020, 8:34AM
    jonesh said:
    It's interesting that a Signal Strength reading of 75%+, taken from a Youview box, can be too high.
    There's a 12dB attenuator in our aerial lead and the Youview box gives a reading of 55-65%, depending on the channel.
    The reading from the TV, which gets its signal from the other branch of a two-way splitter, is close to 100%.
    @jonesh

    I expect if I come and SHOUT EXTREMELY LOUDLY IN YOUR EAR you will get some idea why excessive signal strength can be a problem for YouView boxes.

    A well-designed tuner, though, should dynamically compensate for this, channel by channel, whereas an attenuator in the aerial chain pulls all channels down, weak and strong alike 🤫
    These tests for COVID-19 get right up my nose.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,857 ✭✭✭
    Its like channel volume. It varies channel by channel. And if you switch devices, sheesh!
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭
    I have experience of some of the adverse affects that too strong a signal can have on TV equipment. The aerial engineer who sorted out the problem for us told me that he often finds that a signal booster has been installed, when what is needed is an attenuator.
    Taking into account variations pointed out by @Visionman, Signal Strength readings taken from our T1000, which isn't representative of all Youview boxes, have always been significantly lower than those taken from other TV devices in our house. Readings from our Youview box are in the 55-65% region, whereas on other TV devices it is at, or close to, 100%.
    Some time ago we were told that a software update would bring the readings taken from Youview boxes more in line with other devices, but that doesn't seem to be the case. We get regular reports of reception problems that turn out to be too strong a signal when the Signal Strength reading is significantly less than 100%.
    If someone has a reception issue and their Signal Strength reading is 75%, they might reasonable think that it should be higher. After all, Signal Quality needs to be 100%, so why not Signal Strength? They might then buy and fit a signal booster, which might  make the problem worse.
    If the budget won't stretch to installing better quality tuners in the boxes, then Youview should modify the software so that Signal Strength readings close to 100% are not too strong for the tuners to work properly.
    Grousing seems to be in vogue at the moment :).
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭
    @jonesh

    I think what YouView said was that they were going to start using a recognised standard for reporting Signal Strength. Other manufacturers may still not be using that standard.

    However, you have to wonder at a standard measured in percentages (percentages of what?) where once you get much above 60%, your tuner is overloaded.

    It does look as though TV sets use 100% as their marker of an entirely adequate signal. And presumably, automatically attenuate anything beyond that, to hold it to 100%
    These tests for COVID-19 get right up my nose.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,857 ✭✭✭
    jonesh said:
    I have experience of some of the adverse affects that too strong a signal can have on TV equipment. The aerial engineer who sorted out the problem for us told me that he often finds that a signal booster has been installed, when what is needed is an attenuator.
    Taking into account variations pointed out by @Visionman, Signal Strength readings taken from our T1000, which isn't representative of all Youview boxes, have always been significantly lower than those taken from other TV devices in our house. Readings from our Youview box are in the 55-65% region, whereas on other TV devices it is at, or close to, 100%.
    Some time ago we were told that a software update would bring the readings taken from Youview boxes more in line with other devices, but that doesn't seem to be the case. We get regular reports of reception problems that turn out to be too strong a signal when the Signal Strength reading is significantly less than 100%.
    If someone has a reception issue and their Signal Strength reading is 75%, they might reasonable think that it should be higher. After all, Signal Quality needs to be 100%, so why not Signal Strength? They might then buy and fit a signal booster, which might  make the problem worse.
    If the budget won't stretch to installing better quality tuners in the boxes, then Youview should modify the software so that Signal Strength readings close to 100% are not too strong for the tuners to work properly.
    Grousing seems to be in vogue at the moment :).

    Whats grousing, @jonesh ?
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭
    Roy said:
    @jonesh
    It does look as though TV sets use 100% as their marker of an entirely adequate signal. And presumably, automatically attenuate anything beyond that, to hold it to 100%
    I have an ageing Panasonic recorder. It shows Signal Strength as a line going from 1-10. If the line reaches 10, it turns red and flashes >10. A useful feature.
    I just checked it and it shows SS>10. That's with a 12dB attenuator in the line and the signal split six ways.
    A few weeks ago I made some connection changes and I forgot to plug the aerial lead back into the TV. It was several days before I realised why the picture had some minor pixellation . . .
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