New to YouView and tuning issues

crozzercrozzer Member Posts: 4
Good evening,

Finally quit sky and have started my BT - YouView package today and connected everything up fine.  Attached my TV arial to the rear but every time I retune my channels I receive varying amounts of TV channels back from amounts of 0 to 180.  Sometimes I don't get BBC or ITV back - hence the re-tunes.  Signal strength is over 90% which is OK but quality is variable and mostly less than 50%.  Must have re-tuned about 30 times now and each time get different amount of channels back.  When I connect this cable to the back of my TV I get all channels everytime.

So frustating.  Bearing in mind this is a brand new box could anyone shed any light on what may be wrong please?

Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 312
    Your best bet is to contact BT.
    Pointless "messing" around with a new box that's part of a sub package. 
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • crozzercrozzer Member Posts: 4
    kodikid said:
    Your best bet is to contact BT.
    Pointless "messing" around with a new box that's part of a sub package. 
    I tried BT earlier but it was out of hours.  Thought I would ask here also in case someone has other advice.  I will be calling BT tomorrow though.  Thanks.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭
    edited 31 July 2020, 10:11PM
    crozzer said:
    Good evening,

    Finally quit sky and have started my BT - YouView package today and connected everything up fine.  Attached my TV arial to the rear but every time I retune my channels I receive varying amounts of TV channels back from amounts of 0 to 180.  Sometimes I don't get BBC or ITV back - hence the re-tunes.  Signal strength is over 90% which is OK but quality is variable and mostly less than 50%.  Must have re-tuned about 30 times now and each time get different amount of channels back.  When I connect this cable to the back of my TV I get all channels everytime.

    So frustating.  Bearing in mind this is a brand new box could anyone shed any light on what may be wrong please?

    Thanks in advance.
    @crozier

    Signal Quality should be 100%, and 50% is awful, as you are finding,

    And a Signal Strength of 90% is very much not OK, and you need to put an attenuator in series with your aerial cable to get it down to about 50 to 60%, which should allow the Quality to get up to 100%.

    In effect, the YouView box is seeing the TV signal SHOUTING VERY LOUDLY IN ITS EAR, deafening it, and this needs to be moderated.

    I’m guessing you live very close to a transmitter?

    TVs don’t seem to have this problem, as I am guessing they have circuits in them to attenuate over-strong signals, but YouView boxes don’t.

    Here’s a variable attenuator on Amazon; you can twiddle the little red knob until sanity is restored:-

    These tests for COVID-19 get right up my nose.
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭
    crozzer said:
    Good evening,

    Finally quit sky and have started my BT - YouView package today and connected everything up fine.  Attached my TV arial to the rear but every time I retune my channels I receive varying amounts of TV channels back from amounts of 0 to 180.  Sometimes I don't get BBC or ITV back - hence the re-tunes.  Signal strength is over 90% which is OK but quality is variable and mostly less than 50%.  Must have re-tuned about 30 times now and each time get different amount of channels back.  When I connect this cable to the back of my TV I get all channels everytime.

    So frustating.  Bearing in mind this is a brand new box could anyone shed any light on what may be wrong please?

    Thanks in advance.
    A signal quality reading of less than 50% is the reason why your box isn't finding all the channels.
    The signal quality reading isn't a true measure of signal quality. It is a measure of how successfully the tuner is decoding the channel that your box is tuned to. TVs seem to be able to cope with a strong signal better than Youview boxes.
    Signal quality needs to be at, or close to 100%.
    Unintuitively, a signal strength reading of over 90% can be too high. A strong signal can overload the tuners, resulting in a drop in signal quality.
    Try fitting an attenuator in your aerial lead, to get your signal strength below 75%. Variable attenuators are are available to buy at modest cost. This one, for example.
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭
    @Roy beat me to it :).
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭
    jonesh said:
    @Roy beat me to it :).
    Two heads are better than one - especially when they agree on what the problem is, and how to solve it 😀
    These tests for COVID-19 get right up my nose.
  • Tim CTim C Member, Super User Posts: 494 ✭✭
    I'd be looking at the aerial connection personally as a starter. A poor connection could possibly explain the differing results that are being achieved.

    Don't totally agree about signal strength of 90% being rather high. My 2 units , a T2100 & a T4000 , both work quite happily at 94% signal strength and as an aside on this I have another T4000 that was on OldGen until 2 weeks ago and the signal strength for that was showing at 66% but updated to NextGen it came in at 95% (different aerial). In OldGen days a signal strength of over 80% was considered too high but then Youview rewrote the calculation as I've just demonstrated.
    This is just my personal experience so others can disagree and quote their experiences as being quite different.
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭
    edited 1 August 2020, 1:01PM
    There could be an issue with the aerial connection, but the fact that it works in the TV suggests otherwise.
    If the OP contacts BT, as suggested by @kodikid, they might send out an engineer to check the system.
    You are not comparing like with like when you quote your signal strength readings. Your setup works, but @crozzer's doesn't.
    A signal strength reading of over 90% can be OK if the signal is clean and free from interference, but for many people that is not the case.
    To take @Roy's analogy a stage further, you would probably be able to hear what a person was saying if they were speaking loudly in a quiet environment, but that might not be the case if there was a lot of background noise.
    The idea of fitting an attenuator is to suppress the background noise to enable the tuners to "hear" the TV signal and decode the channels.
    It might work :).
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,857 ✭✭✭
    edited 1 August 2020, 4:59PM
    jonesh said:
    There could be an issue with the aerial connection, but the fact that it works in the TV suggests otherwise.

    A lot of people think that, but thats actually not the case. A TV box, any TV box, needs a stronger aerial signal to work than a TV and there are technical reasons for that. Since broadcasting became digital, too weak a signal doesn't get anything and too strong just blitzes the device completely.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭
    Visionman said:
     A TV box, any TV box, needs a stronger aerial signal to work than a TV and there are technical reasons for that. Since broadcasting became digital, too weak a signal doesn't get anything and too strong just blitzes the device completely.
    What are the technical reasons for a TV box needing a stronger signal than a TV @Visionman.
    The tuners in both types of device would appear to be doing the same job.
  • crozzercrozzer Member Posts: 4
    Thanks all.  Plot thickens.  I have an upstairs aerial box in the wall (like downstairs) and when I tune the youview box via that port I get 176 channels (as expected).  This is without any attenuation and everything is fine and dandy with Quality of 100% and strength 50% ish.  So this looks to me like I do need an attenuator downstairs.  Correct?

    Which then begs the question as to why the difference between up and down stairs?
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭
    It's certainly worth a try.
    An aerial fitter might be able to answer your second question. I haven't got a clue :/ .
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭
    crozzer said:
    Thanks all.  Plot thickens.  I have an upstairs aerial box in the wall (like downstairs) and when I tune the youview box via that port I get 176 channels (as expected).  This is without any attenuation and everything is fine and dandy with Quality of 100% and strength 50% ish.  So this looks to me like I do need an attenuator downstairs.  Correct?

    Which then begs the question as to why the difference between up and down stairs?
    @“Tim C"

    I’ve just checked a few channels, and I’m getting 100/100, somewhat to my surprise, with no issues. And everything works perfectly. I wonder if YouView moved the goalposts?

    @crozzer

    What you describe points to a problem on the downstairs socket, with the experience with the upstairs socket seeming to indicate that aerial, signal, and YouView box are all OK.

    I would now be inclined to open up the downstairs socket and look for a short, a dry joint, or a disconnected wire (RF can leap a small gap, though not without some damage to its integrity).

    Something in there that a TV seems to take in its stride, but a YouView box doesn’t.

    And I would posit that if there is nothing to see and the problem persists, you need an aerial specialist, rather than a BT Overreach network engineer, to look at it. Unless the BT engineer also has aerial smarts.
    These tests for COVID-19 get right up my nose.
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭
    edited 2 August 2020, 12:17PM
    During the Oldgen days I spent a while trying to figure out what the youview signal strength meter was telling us. Unlike any other consumer receiver I had seen it appeared to be showing mainly* the channel power measured in dBμV. ie 100% = 100dBμV (Very strong).
    I know this was changed when Nextgen came along but I can't see where I updated this info. From memory 100% was then around 45dBμV which is the absolute minimum recommended by the CAI (Meaning anything under 100 was not enough. Not very helpful). Of course there are occasions when someone can pick up a decent picture at only 30dBμV but this cannot be relied upon if you need to replace your receiver.
    When I'm defurloughed I plan to go through the measurements again.

    As for what @crozzer should do now I can't fault what @Roy says above. Although if your bad signal is stronger than your good signal (I assume you are testing the same channel), then I wonder if they are coming from the same source. If so did someone previously fit an amplifier somewhere, not seen an improvement so went and got a dish installed?

  • crozzercrozzer Member Posts: 4
    Thanks @Roy I did open the socket a couple of days ago and looked fine although as I am not an expert I wouldn't really know what to look for.

    Took delivery of an attenuator from Amazon today and after a couple of re-tunes and twists on the little red knob, I am now getting 180 tv channels with about 50% strength and > 95% quality.  Let's hope it stays like that.

    No idea why there is a difference between up and down stairs mind you.  House is only 23 years old so perhaps the original installer put something in place in the loft for the upstairs feed?  I haven't been up there to check.  When next up there I will double check.  But for now all seems well.

    Thanks for all the help, it is greatly appreciated.
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭
    Success! Good of you to report back.
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