Sony YouView satellite Censorship

lmkcarlmkcar Member Posts: 1
Sony has agreed to disable satellite tuner on their set KD 55X 8796 set on allowing YouView choice over Freeview 
Has this happened on all Sony sets with twin tuners.? 

Comments

  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,374 ✭✭✭
    @lmkcar

    I’m not sure what you are on about here.

    Is this a garbled version of the technical limitation that choosing the YouView UI over the Freeview UI means that it is not possible to run the satellite tuner simultaneously?

    If so, this is the case with all Sony Android sets, is well documented, and has been the case since the launch of these sets in 2015.

    As is likewise the case with the recording capability on these sets, ever since that was launched, though initially recording on YouView was going to be provided.

    Nobody will say what went wrong with this plan, but it was likely ruled out, again, on technical grounds, rather than by the intervention of the Magisterium.

    By the way, all Sony Android sets have twin tuners, probably three in fact, 1 terrestrial and 2 satellite, and the top sets have an extra terrestrial tuner.

    Not that anything about these Sony Android TVs would ever tempt me away from Samsung and LG.
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
  • DJHB1980DJHB1980 Member Posts: 147
    I believe it is contractual not technical. 
    To suggest that you can’t have YouView and record or not and use satellite and record or not is preposterous. 
    It would be technically VERY easy to have both
    Recordable YouView & Recordable Satellite or in fact FreeSat
    on the Sony Bravia Android TV.

    From whom the limitations come from are the only unknown, it is maybe more likely to be YouView to preserve their pay models they have with BT & TalkTalk. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,374 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2020, 8:56AM
    @DJHB1980

    I bow to your specialised knowledge of the intimate workings of YouView on these Sony TVs.

    But I do wonder how you obtained it, by any method that didn’t involve breaking an NDA when posting it on here?

    NB: think overlays
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
  • Occam/Hanlon's razor - is it more likely that YouView:
    • (who were created to do Terrestrial TV) lack the metadata, skills and motivation to deal with satellite channels, so didn't.
    • conspired with Sony to ensure free satellite channels didn't affect BT & TalkTalk's premium channels which aren't available on these TVs??
    Same for recording:
    • Found it was more work to deal with Sony's recording system, so didn't.
    • Sabotaged to save retail sales of YouView recording boxes?
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,956 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2020, 10:26PM
    onceuponatime  

    Your funny. At this Christmas period, of which quite a few people will be spending alone, your user name almost sounds like pantomime. Oh no it isn't.

    Merry Christmas everyone. 
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,374 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2020, 8:23AM
    @onceuponatime

    Occam/Hanlon's razor - is it more likely that YouView:
    • (who were created to do Terrestrial TV) lack the metadata, skills and motivation to deal with satellite channels, so didn't.
    If I switch to the (non-Freesat) satellite channels on my Samsung TV, I am suddenly in a very different world from the Freeview side. The same would no doubt be true of these Sony TVs; that is, that YouView need not, and would not, concern itself with the satellite channels in any way.

    This would rule against the above conjecture.
    • conspired with Sony to ensure free satellite channels didn't affect BT & TalkTalk's premium channels which aren't available on these TVs??
    I’m not even sure this question makes sense, and Hanlon’s law anyway brings it down. Have you seen the free satellite channels that aren’t already on Freeview anyway? They wouldn’t impact BT and TalkTalk in the slightest.

    Same for recording:
    • Found it was more work to deal with Sony's recording system, so didn't.
    Unlikely in the extreme. Not that it wasn’t more work, which I am sure it would have been, but that Sony would lightly let YouView off the hook of the promised facility.
    • Sabotaged to save retail sales of YouView recording boxes?
    Well, let’s look at the evidence. Sony is a huge global manufacturer, and YouView is a dot on the UK landscape that Sony could sideswipe with a huge paw if it had a mind to. But would it agree that YouView could cripple a much-desired feature that all its competitors had, to save a segment of YouView’s market so tiny that even YouView could only run it as a loss-leader for its original charter?

    The least this conjecture could be is to ‘save all sales (and supplies) of YouView boxes’. And even that suffers from the same difficulties as above.

    It is one of the enduring mysteries why, when YouView fell so short of its original promise on these Sony Android TVs, that Sony did not move to overcome the technical difficulties by expanding the hardware and software capabilities of the 2016 sets, or at least the 2017 sets, if the shortcomings were on Sony’s side.

    As they must have been, or Sony would have been putting enormous pressure on YouView to deliver what was promised.

    The main purpose of YouView must have been to bring the itv Hub and All4 to these Sony sets; but you wonder at the Sony UK boardroom struggles there must have been since 2015, on the one side to have YouView work as originally intended, or on the other side to drop it altogether.

    And yet here it is in 2020, still falling between the same two stools on the flagship TVs of a major manufacturer; and no further forward, significantly, than when YouView on Sony Android couldn’t fulfil its promise in 2015.

    That’s the thing to wonder about; and not penny-ante conspiracy theories that rely on the very tiny YouView tail being able to wag the very large Sony dog.
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
  • DJHB1980DJHB1980 Member Posts: 147
    I don’t know why YouView & FreeSat don’t merge in some way to corner the free market.
    Any FreeSat box could easily have an aerial or FreeView box have satellite capability. 
    If a way to homogenise the EPG’s recordings etc and offer the apps too it could be a killer partnership.
    Lots of people have dishes up but no longer Sky & the aerials have FreeView.
    Most to all TV’s have both Satellite inputs and obviously FreeView. 
    If a memory card, flash drive or SSD slot could be incorporated then it would work amazing for recording. 
    The potential is there. 
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 367 ✭✭
    It's not just a question of inputs, but having tuners too which are capable of decoding the signals.
    You'd end up paying more to incorporate each others tuners which would be redundant to users who want only Freeview or Freesat.
    There is enough choice without complicating it for the few who may use both.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,374 ✭✭✭
    DJHB1980 said:
    I don’t know why YouView & FreeSat don’t merge in some way to corner the free market.
    Any FreeSat box could easily have an aerial or FreeView box have satellite capability. 
    If a way to homogenise the EPG’s recordings etc and offer the apps too it could be a killer partnership.
    Lots of people have dishes up but no longer Sky & the aerials have FreeView.
    Most to all TV’s have both Satellite inputs and obviously FreeView. 
    If a memory card, flash drive or SSD slot could be incorporated then it would work amazing for recording. 
    The potential is there. 
    @DJHB1980

    As you say, there are lots of TVs with both satellite and terrestrial tuners; it seems relatively easy and cheap to add satellite, but quite another thing to add the Freesat EPG. Though it looks as if Sony have finally bitten the bullet and added this.

    But as regards ‘easy’, look at the attempt to add YouView to the Sony Android TVs; while not actually abortive, it is certainly majorly compromised.
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
  • DJHB1980DJHB1980 Member Posts: 147
    YouView & FreeSat are essentially just Apps piggybacking on the system to turn all the frequencies and multiplexes and LCN’s etc to a useable interface for the consumer. 
    The “data” comes OTA over the air via an aerial then cabled to the TV or via a satellite then cabled to the TV. 
    It isn’t easy but for those that do it it is. Both these formats are just holding the delivery of content via internet WiFi & internet 5G  back for as long as possible.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,374 ✭✭✭
    DJHB1980 said:
    YouView & FreeSat are essentially just Apps piggybacking on the system to turn all the frequencies and multiplexes and LCN’s etc to a useable interface for the consumer. 
    The “data” comes OTA over the air via an aerial then cabled to the TV or via a satellite then cabled to the TV. 
    It isn’t easy but for those that do it it is. Both these formats are just holding the delivery of content via internet WiFi & internet 5G  back for as long as possible.
    All this is too wrong to merit a point by point refutation 😢
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,956 ✭✭✭
    edited 6 January 2021, 5:00AM
    DJHB1980 said:
    YouView & FreeSat are essentially just Apps piggybacking on the system to turn all the frequencies and multiplexes and LCN’s etc to a useable interface for the consumer. 
    The “data” comes OTA over the air via an aerial then cabled to the TV or via a satellite then cabled to the TV. 
    It isn’t easy but for those that do it it is. Both these formats are just holding the delivery of content via internet WiFi & internet 5G  back for as long as possible.

    Oh woah, thats so wrong its untrue.

    Dual tuner boxes have been done to death before. 4 tuners in a box. 2 for Freeview and 2 for satellite. Do you know how much of the market these previous now defunct 4 tuner boxes obtained?  - 2% - and that was the second attempt. So no, not really a good idea.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • DJHB1980DJHB1980 Member Posts: 147
    My tv has 2 satellite inputs
    and a dual tuner FreeView
    for watching 1 channel & recording another.

    if YouView controlled the satellite via their app (instead of FreeSat) as well as the “FreeView” they could harness the content. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,374 ✭✭✭
    DJHB1980 said:
    My tv has 2 satellite inputs
    and a dual tuner FreeView
    for watching 1 channel & recording another.

    if YouView controlled the satellite via their app (instead of FreeSat) as well as the “FreeView” they could harness the content. 
    I take it you have a Sony TV? 

    YouView can’t even make their existing software work properly on these sets, let alone extend what it can do 😢
    Back to my usual level of bafflement, then...
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