Recordings List: Folders and series rollups

KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
edited 4 May 2017, 12:39AM in Feedback
*** Summarised idea from trials process ***

There are many reasons why the number of recordings you are holding on your PVR at any one time may be quite a long list. Whilst with a short list it is generally easy to quickly see the item or episode you want, with a longer list it can quickly become messy and many people wish to have mechanisms to help them organise the content so it is easier for them to find and review.

For recordings that are part of a series you will often want to see those items together, in order and with the next one to watch first in the list. A solution for this might be for such related recordings to all be in an ordered folder or for those recordings to appear in the list all rolled up into a single entry which can be expanded on selection or play the next episode by default.

Some systems automatically list recordings from a series in a folder. For those that watch recordings quickly and do not have a long recording list such forced automatic behaviour can be annoying. As such any automatic series folders or rollup feature could benefit from a user option to turn it on or off as desired.

More generally some may wish to manually create folders to gather together some items, e.g. maybe you record a lot of films that you wish to watch more than once so want to tuck all films in a folder to keep them from cluttering the main recordings list, some even wish to sort films into further folders by genre etc.
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Comments

  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Member Posts: 315
    edited 31 July 2014, 10:44AM
    All Tv programs are categorized on broadcast. TopUpTV PVRs for instance use those categories to filter your recordings. You select drama, news, sport, etc amd it only displays that category. Very handy and it solves the YouView's present flat structure.
  • BrbBrb Member Posts: 65
    edited 31 July 2014, 10:45AM
    I am up to 19 pages of recordings.

    Personally I would like ability to name the folders and move files over but I can be a bit of a control freak LOL :)
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 10:29AM
    I see no reason why they cannot make this quite flexible to meet a wide range of needs yet still not make it appear complicated (or even be very noticable) if people do not want to use such features. Within reason choice is generally always a good thing.
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    edited 5 March 2017, 2:28PM
    I don't have a good suggestion but seem to recall the Virgin TIVO has a good way of filtering recordings. Have a look at them ;)
  • tracestraces Member Posts: 199
    edited 24 November 2016, 8:25PM
    Agreed, folders for series would tidy the recordings list up loads.
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 4 May 2017, 12:39AM
    I commented on the sort order of series recordings, and this was changed in the recent update (whilst programmes with the same name were all together within this list the dates were in random order) I did suggest that most people would wish to watch the oldest in the series first (i.e. watch them in order of broadcast), and was disappointed to see that they are listed in most recent to oldest - not a big issue - I just go to the last one. However, if folders are implemented - PLEASE - PLEASE - make the order reverse date order - next one to watch at the top.
  • richard1richard1 Member Posts: 4
    edited 1 October 2012, 7:26PM
    i like the sort functon on pvrs, you can sort by smallest to largest & viceversa, oldest to newest and vv, by date recorded and by name a to z and viceversa if sorted a to z it would also sort by recording date also. if you do sort the list it should remane sorted as the user has made the order. with youview i have to click a to z every time i go into the recorded list as it seems to default back to recorded date. my TVonics DTR-HD500 is very good at sorting recordings and has other exellent features, if youview could implement the features in their boxes they would be pretty hard to beat. swap channel function is a good idea also.
  • malcolmv24malcolmv24 Member Posts: 2
    edited 2 October 2012, 8:17AM
    To see how Humax implemented folders and how well it works look at the Foxsat -HDR. Records seies into folders, can create folders and can move recordings into them. So all films are in a folder marked Films and Music in another. That way I have a very short list
  • malcolmv24malcolmv24 Member Posts: 2
    edited 2 October 2012, 8:20AM
    v24
  • endsbowenendsbowen Member Posts: 38
    edited 14 December 2016, 10:29PM
    I think any facility YouView got to add they need to be careful how its implemented so your mother can use. At the moment its quite simple, and they have to take time to design that easiness into future enhancements. I would assume this is where the time will be taken to make it easy to use, along with coding and testing.
  • marcusd666marcusd666 Member Posts: 14
    edited 4 May 2017, 12:39AM
    I think this would be a good idea sky+ does something similar puts all the same series into one sub folder which makes it a lot easier. I would also add that the programs are sorted by oldest first.
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 2 December 2016, 8:27PM

    I think this would be a good idea sky+ does something similar puts all the same series into one sub folder which makes it a lot easier. I would also add that the programs are sorted by oldest first.

    I have made the suggestion about the sort order - but when they implemented it in the recordings, they did it the other way (despite my suggestion). Hope they take note of this with folders - (or provide a configurable option to have the programmes in reverse date order in the folders). Becomes even more important with folders, unless there is a wraparound from top to bottom, as if you have them in most recent first, (and any SENSIBLE person would want to watch the OLDEST first), then it would be more pointless key presses to get to the bottom of the list. Even the wraparound work-around would be one key press too many. No-one, (I would suggest) wants to watch a series backwards! User-friendly would be reverse date order - elementary.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 8 October 2012, 8:39PM

    I think this would be a good idea sky+ does something similar puts all the same series into one sub folder which makes it a lot easier. I would also add that the programs are sorted by oldest first.

    Totally agree, at least user should be able to set and save how they are sorted.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 8 October 2012, 8:46PM
    As mentioned above, Sky+ (which mostly is the pinnacle of good design and user-friendliness and should be treated as a "Yardstick" or standard in my opinion) does sort recordings into folders. However, it goes one better, and I'd like that to be implemented:

    1) If more than one item in a seres is recorded, it goes into a folder, that can be expanded in-line with the rest of the recoding list by, for example pressing OK, and collapsed, for example by presssing BACK or navigating down past the last recording in the expanded list.

    2) If only one item from a series, or a stand-alone programme is recorded, then it appears in the list as a single entry that cannot be expanded (other than to press Info)

    3) Other than a visual clue (eg a + sign) that the series folder can be expanded, individual recordings and folders in the list are sorted by date or by name and look almost exactly the same as each other. Of course, if people miss the + sign it does not matter, because individual items are played when you press OK and a series of more than one recording is expanded to show all the recordings available when you press OK - so everything is totally obvious and easy to use.
  • edited 26 September 2013, 8:33AM
    " Of course, if people miss the + sign it does not matter,"

    It has to matter, because you need to take into account what pressing delete does - if you press at folder level does the button delete the whole folder, just the top entry or a random entry?

    For this reason it has to be clear to users that there's a folder of content so they can properly manage their recordings.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 9 October 2012, 6:40AM
    Yes it needs to be clear (on Sky+ there is a "stack icon" in place of the date / time to give that clue) - the point I'm making is that even if people don't notice the clear visual clue, it would immediately become obvious as soon as they press a button. Let me try to explain.

    Having highlighted an item in the list, all people can do is press Play or OK (on Sky+ both do the same thing), Info or Del.

    Play/OK:
    If this is pressed on a non-folder it performs its normal action
    If it is pressed on a folder it opens up the folder, selecting the first item, you can then press any button again or navigate through the list of content in the folder.

    Info:
    If this is pressed on a non-folder it performs its normal action.
    If it is pressed on a folder, it opens up the folder and shows some overall info for the series (eg number of episodes and series title), you can then navigate through the list of content in the folder.

    Del:
    If this is pressed on a non-folder it performs its normal action
    If it is pressed on a folder, it opens up the folder and asks if you want to delete all programmes in the folder. "Yes" deletes the whole folder, "No" selects the first item, you can then press any button again (eg Del to delete the first item) or navigate through the list of content in the folder.

    Unfortunately Youview displays recordings in pages rather than a single very long page, and that (In my opinion poor) design does not lend itself easily to displaying the contents of folders that may be more than one page long. if this behaviour remains the same, then the folder contents would possibly need to be displayed as a "sub-page" to avoid breaking the current design (instead of an inline, indented sub-section of the overall list).
  • edited 26 September 2013, 8:33AM
    Hi

    Am looking forward to series folders arriving, any chance that future updates might bring the ability to either list recorded films separately to TV shows or to file, even manually, films into a single folder?

    Once series folders arrive, users could find themselves with TV shows 'hidden' among lists of films depending on their recording mix. It'd be great to tidy up the films if possible.

    It'd also be nice if we could filter recordings by genre - comedy, drama, factual - but realise this would be dependent on what data is made available by the broadcasters.

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Folders/MyView management.
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 4 May 2017, 12:39AM
    I would like series folders (or a single rolled-up entry - which, when OK'd, plays the oldest automatically, as suggested - neat idea), and would probably like to have films in a separate folder as well.

    I have lost interest in the categories that the broadcasters use as they are far too broad - switching on folder use for the film category would be a simple way to get films stored in one folder, but I wouldn't want every programme to be stored in a category folder. Not sure if having a folder on/off switch for categories, and just being able to switch it on for a single category as an option, isn't making the user interface too complex versus the design aims.

    To balance functionality with simplicity, a compromise would be to have an option to switch folders on/off - on would automatically store all programmes in a series as a single entry - folder or rollup (like the rollup idea). Then to have optional additional manual functionality of moving any recording to a folder which you had created and named yourself. Mrs Trellis of North Wales would probably not bother with either of these options, whereas people like Martin and I would probably use both functions.
  • edited 26 September 2013, 8:33AM
    Hi churchwarden

    Sorry if my post/suggestion was unclear, I typed it in a hurry.

    I wasn't suggesting a folder for each genre, I think that would be unwieldily as you suggest, just new filters alongside the watched/unwatched ones already present via the GREEN button in the MyView > Recordings screen.

    Plus of course a general FILM folder for all films to live in together regardless of genre.

    Apols for any confusion :-)
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 4 May 2017, 12:39AM
    Right - I think read it too quickly - you DID say filters - not folders. We agree!
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 10:29AM
    So as of the 30/10/2012 update we now have a basic series rollup implementation (but not general folders yet).

    My understanding is that the series rollup feature as implemented now is just a natural extension of the main recordings list gathering items from a single series into a (virtual) folder. Being a simple extension of the main list the series rollup listing is reverse chronological like the main list.

    At first I though that it was obvious everyone would want the rollup to be in chronological order as they would obviously want to watch the oldest episode first. However, some people do not watch and delete items but instead keep the items to form a collection for future rewatching. Such people may be watching the series broadly as it happens and then they of course do want the newest episode at the top of the list as that is the next one to watch and if the list were in the opposite order the next episode that they want to view would become progressively further down the list the more episodes they store.

    So there are reasons to have such lists in either order and hence adding a sticky chronological/reverse chronological sort order option in a future update would be a good way to go, plus potentially a quick resort colour key to swap the order if you occasionally want it the other way or a colour key etc to jump to the other end of the list in one press.
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 4 May 2017, 12:39AM
    I am one of the people who would like to watch the oldest recorded programme first. This could be easily achieved by allowing the UP keypress to roll round to the bottom of the list i.e. make the list wraparound. Simple, effective, and would work.

    Of course, being able to set the list to the preferred order as a sticky option would be great - and I agree totally with the greater use of the colour keys. Your suggestion in the final paragraph above would be ideal, but I would be happy with an interim UP option, which would, I would have thought, be fairly simple to implement until a more complex system were available. Everyone - whether watching most recent or earliest would get to the programme they wish to play with one key press from the revealed list.
  • ScuttlebroomScuttlebroom Member Posts: 279
    edited 13 November 2013, 10:01AM
    After the latest software update introduced folders, I have come across an improvement I would like to see in the a future update to this feature:

    When recording a film that is split by the news, the box cleverly doesn't record the news, however it doesn't put the two sections of the film into a folder, it simply shows them separately, so you have to look at the timings of each part to make sure you play it in order!

    Perhaps they could also be put into a folder?
  • edited 13 November 2013, 10:01AM
    Hi Scuttlebroom

    Sorry if you already know this, the series folders works by using the broadcaster supplied series link info attached to the programme. Where the info on two (or more) recordings match, the box creates a folder (or at least displays one and hides the recordings).

    As there's no series link info on the film the box currently has nothing to allow it to match the two parts of the film.

    I've previously asked for either the ability to manually put films into a folder or have them filed automatically into a 'films' folder.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 10:29AM
    Somewhat related to the idea of putting a split film into a folder I had been meaning to create a separate topic idea about having such split part items automatically joined into a single recording file.

    On a previous PVR I had one could manually join two items into one but if the box could do it automatically that could be good. Equally there could be cases where this is the wrong thing to do automatically (not that I can think of one right now) and hence why such a feature would be a bad idea.
  • edited 26 September 2013, 8:33AM
    I like Keith's idea of manually joining two items but I can see doing this automatically could be a problem without a LOT of processing on the box's part.

    Let imagine The Italian Job (the superb 1969 one) airs on Film 4 today as part of a 'Great films and their duff remakes' season and is followed later in the day by the dire 2003 hack-a-thon which went under the same name, unless the box had some very rigid rules it could join the two into a single file.

    Now, it might be thought this could be resolved by relying on the air date - but then what happens if a single film is split around the news in such a way that the second half airs after midnight?

    Both if these are pretty 'what if' scenarios but they're the sort of questions YouView needs to consider and either allow for in the code, or ignore as too niche and rare, before they can implement a lot of the features we ask for,
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 10:29AM
    I've created two new separate idea topics, one for a function to automatically join split recordings and the other for an option to manually join/split/crop recordings so people can give further comment on those as appropriate :)
  • ScuttlebroomScuttlebroom Member Posts: 279
    edited 5 November 2012, 5:29PM
    Martin1 said:

    Hi Scuttlebroom

    Sorry if you already know this, the series folders works by using the broadcaster supplied series link info attached to the programme. Where the info on two (or more) recordings match, the box creates a folder (or at least displays one and hides the recordings).

    As there's no series link info on the film the box currently has nothing to allow it to match the two parts of the film.

    I've previously asked for either the ability to manually put films into a folder or have them filed automatically into a 'films' folder.

    Hi Martin, yes I did know that, I just wanted to point out, that the way the box deals with this issue now may confuse other users who are not aware why it does it, and I thought the easiest way was to place them in to a folder!

    Although I know like Keith's idea better!
  • edited 5 November 2012, 5:34PM
    Martin1 said:

    Hi Scuttlebroom

    Sorry if you already know this, the series folders works by using the broadcaster supplied series link info attached to the programme. Where the info on two (or more) recordings match, the box creates a folder (or at least displays one and hides the recordings).

    As there's no series link info on the film the box currently has nothing to allow it to match the two parts of the film.

    I've previously asked for either the ability to manually put films into a folder or have them filed automatically into a 'films' folder.

    Sorry, hadn't meant to teach granny to suck eggs. It's not always easy to remember who might know what, hope it didn't seem as if I was talking down to you.
  • ScuttlebroomScuttlebroom Member Posts: 279
    edited 5 November 2012, 7:13PM
    Martin1 said:

    Hi Scuttlebroom

    Sorry if you already know this, the series folders works by using the broadcaster supplied series link info attached to the programme. Where the info on two (or more) recordings match, the box creates a folder (or at least displays one and hides the recordings).

    As there's no series link info on the film the box currently has nothing to allow it to match the two parts of the film.

    I've previously asked for either the ability to manually put films into a folder or have them filed automatically into a 'films' folder.

    Not at all Martin, i appreciate the sentiment, and I prefer people to remind others of the reason, as other readers may not know how things work, but can understand if it is explained!

    If you ever talked down to me would certainly let you know!;-)
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