Failed recordings again !!!

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Comments

  • edited 26 September 2013, 7:33AM
    Skipping EastEnders is just the box's quality control feature at work ;)

    While a missed recording is a PITA, EastEnders is available via the backwards EPG/catch-up feature.
  • Ian2Ian2 Member Posts: 45
    edited 19 October 2012, 7:59AM
    Martin1 said:

    Skipping EastEnders is just the box's quality control feature at work ;)

    While a missed recording is a PITA, EastEnders is available via the backwards EPG/catch-up feature.

    Not when its last weeks Eastenders.....The 7 day backwards EPG is rather limiting. Thankgoodness my 11 years old TiVo recorded it and thank goodness for Mr Torrent who has more than 7 days worth available
  • Adrian2Adrian2 Member Posts: 17
    edited 19 October 2012, 8:03AM
    LOL @ Quality control. What is it about Eastenders? I hate it when I find myself watching it.

    I lost BBC1 and BBC2 yesterday and it failed recordings into the future (makes sense if BBC isn't there to plan against).

    I think this is the first time it has happened as I had to re-tune to pick them again.

    I'm in surburban South Manchester so is this likely to be a one off, my aerial, or the local signal?

    Otherwise Failed Recordings had dropped right off.
  • edited 19 October 2012, 8:43AM
    Martin1 said:

    Skipping EastEnders is just the box's quality control feature at work ;)

    While a missed recording is a PITA, EastEnders is available via the backwards EPG/catch-up feature.

    >> Not when its last weeks Eastenders

    Even when it's last week's EastEnders - the omnibus episode from the 12th is available via YouVIew.
  • JustJust Member Posts: 15
    edited 19 October 2012, 10:36AM
    All of my recordings set for Sunday failed, signal was fine as my HTPC recorded everything (thankfully). YouView need to get a handle on this quick, not recording accurately will kill this off quicker than a C5.
  • Matt FMatt F Member Posts: 204
    edited 20 October 2012, 11:49AM
    Other forums for completely different PVRs are having this exact problem for the same timeframe. I.e. Could well be information from broadcasters that youview take series link instructions from that is incorrect.
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Member Posts: 315
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Lately, all of my recordings of CSI series on 5.US missed recording about a few minutes of the end. Very annoying as you miss the mystery resolving, so to speak. I have hence been doing parallel recording on my old TopUpTV Thomson PVR. None of the recordings there missed the ends.

    I don't think missed recordings is to do with broadcasters' signalling. Don't you agree?
  • edited 26 September 2013, 7:33AM
    Hi Matt

    Thanks for posting that.

    The clipped recordings issue absolutely IS because of the information from broadcasters that youview take series link instructions from.

    YouVIew uses a system called Accurate Record which relies on exactly that information to stop/start recordings, Channel 4 have already put their hands up to being the culprits for Homeland Eps 1 & 2 being clipped.

    They've promised to resolve the issue for future episodes. All that's needed is for all the broadcasters to get their acts in gear.

    :-)
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Member Posts: 315
    edited 20 October 2012, 12:11PM
    Martin, do you have a link where you read CH4's admission of such error that you can share with us?

    Also, if the clipped recording is to do with AR signalling how come my TopUpTV PVR recorded all CSI episodes correctly?
  • edited 26 September 2013, 7:33AM
    Sure:

    http://community.youview.com/youview/...

    I don't know much about TUTV PVRs, do they use AR? Do you not use padding on that box?

    Never used a TUTV box, I did used to subscribe but used a Pace 'half moon' shaped box back when they first launched. (here it is for any nostalgia fans: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pace-DTVA-3-S...)

    Suspect YouView will either kill them off or spur them to add themselves as a player and make themselves attractive to a whole new customer base.
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Member Posts: 315
    edited 20 October 2012, 12:19PM
    Thanks.

    It is very difficult to understand that a broadcasters who broadcasts everything via an automated transmission control system (all major broadcasters use such a system) can send wrong AR signalling.

    If the programming is done correctly things work all the time as programmed. It is either they are manually sending AR signals during broadcast, which is absurd, or their system is so flaky that it is a miracle they broadcast the programs at all.

    Either way, it is a disgrace.
  • edited 26 September 2013, 7:33AM
    I don't pretend to know how the play out systems work so I can't really answer your question.

    I did wonder - and this is just a random guess which may be entirely technically inaccurate and impossible - whether the HD version of the channel was running a little behind the SD and the AR signals weren't being timed to allow for this.
  • edited 26 September 2013, 7:33AM
    Just to add, I suggested here

    http://community.youview.com/youview/...

    that we compile a list of clipped recordings in a separate thread to see if a pattern is discernible.
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Member Posts: 315
    edited 20 October 2012, 12:49PM
    Being in the TV industry I have some knowledge about how play outs are done and what type of equipment are used. One widely used example is below.

    http://www.snellgroup.com/products/au...

    These days play out is outsourced. BBC uses Red Bee for instance, I can't remember who does the play out for CH4, could be Technicolor, but I'm not sure. I have friends who work at those centres. I know that all they do is to enter the schedule given to them by the broadcaster into the play out system. The system then sends the program on the server to transmission at the time the schedule requires.

    Now, logic says that the schedule that is entered by the operator was correct as the program started and ended on schedule the only possible answer is AR was not used. If my logic is sound then the question is: do all broadcasters use AR?

    Do a Google search on 'Accurate Recording' and nothing comes up besides an old BBC R&D page. Does anyone has any information that confirms the use of AR by CH4 or CH5 for that matter?
  • edited 26 September 2013, 7:33AM
    Worth pointing out that the oft-praised, even fetishised, HDR FOX T2 suffers from the same problem, especially with Homeland:

    http://myhumax.org/forum/topic/inaccu...
  • Matt FMatt F Member Posts: 204
    edited 20 October 2012, 12:56PM

    Lately, all of my recordings of CSI series on 5.US missed recording about a few minutes of the end. Very annoying as you miss the mystery resolving, so to speak. I have hence been doing parallel recording on my old TopUpTV Thomson PVR. None of the recordings there missed the ends.

    I don't think missed recordings is to do with broadcasters' signalling. Don't you agree?

    I'm not sure I do agree. The issue where a pvr records just the last few minutes is one of I have seen before on my old fetch PVR and it comes as no surprise to me that it happened on one of the '5' channels as they have been the main culprits in series link horrors for as long as I have had series link enabled PVRs including my first Sagem. Without knowing how your Thompson box works in comparison with my Youview or Fetch box I guess it's all speculation :-)
  • edited 20 October 2012, 12:59PM

    Lately, all of my recordings of CSI series on 5.US missed recording about a few minutes of the end. Very annoying as you miss the mystery resolving, so to speak. I have hence been doing parallel recording on my old TopUpTV Thomson PVR. None of the recordings there missed the ends.

    I don't think missed recordings is to do with broadcasters' signalling. Don't you agree?

    As I said below, even the fetishise HDR FOX T2 suffers from the same problem, especially with Homeland:

    http://myhumax.org/forum/topic/inaccu...

    which suggests it's not a YouView specific issue.
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Member Posts: 315
    edited 20 October 2012, 1:04PM

    Lately, all of my recordings of CSI series on 5.US missed recording about a few minutes of the end. Very annoying as you miss the mystery resolving, so to speak. I have hence been doing parallel recording on my old TopUpTV Thomson PVR. None of the recordings there missed the ends.

    I don't think missed recordings is to do with broadcasters' signalling. Don't you agree?

    I don't know how the TopUpTV box works either, but it does. Isn't that an indicator that the problem is device(s) related?
  • edited 20 October 2012, 1:10PM

    Lately, all of my recordings of CSI series on 5.US missed recording about a few minutes of the end. Very annoying as you miss the mystery resolving, so to speak. I have hence been doing parallel recording on my old TopUpTV Thomson PVR. None of the recordings there missed the ends.

    I don't think missed recordings is to do with broadcasters' signalling. Don't you agree?

    Not really, unless the TUTV box uses AR and has no padding enabled then it's not a like for like comparison.

    Accurate record is part of the Freeview+ and Freeview HD+ standard:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeview%2B

    but does TUTV comply?
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Member Posts: 315
    edited 20 October 2012, 1:14PM

    Lately, all of my recordings of CSI series on 5.US missed recording about a few minutes of the end. Very annoying as you miss the mystery resolving, so to speak. I have hence been doing parallel recording on my old TopUpTV Thomson PVR. None of the recordings there missed the ends.

    I don't think missed recordings is to do with broadcasters' signalling. Don't you agree?

    The question is, does YouView supports AR as they are not Freeview+ or FreeviewHD compliant. I don't see the relevant logo on my box, do you?
  • edited 20 October 2012, 1:24PM

    Lately, all of my recordings of CSI series on 5.US missed recording about a few minutes of the end. Very annoying as you miss the mystery resolving, so to speak. I have hence been doing parallel recording on my old TopUpTV Thomson PVR. None of the recordings there missed the ends.

    I don't think missed recordings is to do with broadcasters' signalling. Don't you agree?

    It's been stated on here many times that they do without any Mods or staff correcting it.

    And Amazon states:

    "Accurate Recording
    There’s no need to worry about missing a recording if the programme schedule changes, like a football match going into extra time or a breaking news flash. Schedule tracking starts recording your programme only when it starts being broadcast, so your recordings are always accurate."

    I assume that's information they got from Humax or YouView.
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Member Posts: 315
    edited 20 October 2012, 1:32PM

    Lately, all of my recordings of CSI series on 5.US missed recording about a few minutes of the end. Very annoying as you miss the mystery resolving, so to speak. I have hence been doing parallel recording on my old TopUpTV Thomson PVR. None of the recordings there missed the ends.

    I don't think missed recordings is to do with broadcasters' signalling. Don't you agree?

    No disrespect to you, but it is blah, blah, blah, as far as I'm concerned. I miss the end of all episodes of a program that I have multiple series link in a week. If the functionality is depending on the broadcasters they shouldn't declare it as Amazon does it above.

    If YouView or Humax cannot supply me, the consumer, the service they advertise it is at best false advertisement. Especially when there is widespread issues with this whole AP palaver.

    You cannot advertise services out of a wish or spec list. They should be replicable by the general public.
  • edited 20 October 2012, 1:33PM

    Lately, all of my recordings of CSI series on 5.US missed recording about a few minutes of the end. Very annoying as you miss the mystery resolving, so to speak. I have hence been doing parallel recording on my old TopUpTV Thomson PVR. None of the recordings there missed the ends.

    I don't think missed recordings is to do with broadcasters' signalling. Don't you agree?

    As an update, the YouVIew spec says

    "3.6.1. Commencing acquisition
    Acquisition of linear content shall be controlled by changes in the EIT present/following information as described in the DTG D-Book 7 Part A v1."

    https://industry.youview.com/resource...

    Sadly the DTG D-Book 7 Part A is only available to members:

    http://www.dtg.org.uk/publications/bo...

    but here's some info people may find of use:
    http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showth...
  • sarumbear1sarumbear1 Member Posts: 315
    edited 20 October 2012, 1:46PM
    I have created a question post, asking YouView to clarify if the statement "Schedule tracking starts recording your programme only when it starts being broadcast, so your recordings are always accurate." on Amazon's product page is correct. (Emphasis mine.)

    http://community.youview.com/youview/...
  • darucladarucla Member Posts: 52
    edited 20 October 2012, 2:10PM
    http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/1...

    Chapter 11 gives the following Accurate Recording information.

    [quote]The first mode is to use scheduled time and is signalled when the identifier_type is '00'. In this case the receiver uses its
    internal clock to control the start and end of recording based on the times indicated by the start_time and duration fields. The start_time and duration fields offer the best estimate of when the content will be broadcast. Ideally, such CRI data should be updated to reflect any changes shortly before or during broadcast to provide more accurate information.
    To offer increased reliability of capture a receiver may employ guard intervals either side of the scheduled start_time and implicit scheduled end time. In determining the size of these guard intervals the receiver may consider the early_start_window and late_end_window, if provided by the broadcaster for the particular item of content to be recorded. The intention is that the early_start_window and late_end_window fields should be considered an estimate of the maximum by which the broadcast time may differ from the scheduled time. [/quote]

    But, without further reading, I don't think that all broadcasters have to use anything other than "first mode", (Certainly it seems that Five does not, and nor do some of the other less mainstream channels.) or whether any intelligent system is used to catch programming changes
  • Adrian2Adrian2 Member Posts: 17
    edited 20 October 2012, 3:37PM
    Where is the vendor response to all this????
  • Matt FMatt F Member Posts: 204
    edited 20 October 2012, 6:11PM
    Adrian2 said:

    Where is the vendor response to all this????

    The vendor response could well be it being fixed on the next update. Its just over a week away. Maybe an online forum is not the best place to guarantee personal contact regarding individual cases. How about ringing support?
  • Adrian2Adrian2 Member Posts: 17
    edited 21 October 2012, 10:17AM
    Adrian2 said:

    Where is the vendor response to all this????

    That would be good. Not looking for personal contact, just a response other than the FAQ, or to say what lines of investigation they might be pursuing.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,453 ✭✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 9:29AM
    On a different topic someone else also asked why no YouView response was being given. The response given there broadly confirmed YouView do see all posts but only respond when they have something definitive to say/add and that they see the forum as more of a place for customer discussion. For specific or individual responses they then recommend direct contact via phone or the support email form.

    There is a topic listing the different resources and options available for obtaining support in case that is of any use.
  • Adrian2Adrian2 Member Posts: 17
    edited 21 October 2012, 11:34AM
    ok, thanks
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