Goodbye YouView Forums
Madcotto
Member Posts: 580 ✭✭
Hi i wasent a big player here but i always kept a tab open to see where i could help and to follow the developments of what i hope to be a great platform.
but i cannot carry on bothering while there are some people and noticably Martin carry on been so condescending in there responses esp to new users.
to say martin has not clue of any of his actions is the same excuse my 13 and 12 year old children give as excuses when they cought out. mb he dosent i we meet these people all the time and they clueless of there own actions but thats normaly reserved for the kids standing outside a shop corner.
so sorry i kept this tab open as to follow and help not row with pretentious people so i shall bid you all goodbye and ik no great loss but im not the first person driven from this site and wont be the last.
have fun with your boxes people it can only get greater....
but i cannot carry on bothering while there are some people and noticably Martin carry on been so condescending in there responses esp to new users.
to say martin has not clue of any of his actions is the same excuse my 13 and 12 year old children give as excuses when they cought out. mb he dosent i we meet these people all the time and they clueless of there own actions but thats normaly reserved for the kids standing outside a shop corner.
so sorry i kept this tab open as to follow and help not row with pretentious people so i shall bid you all goodbye and ik no great loss but im not the first person driven from this site and wont be the last.
have fun with your boxes people it can only get greater....
0
Comments
I wasn't going to comment but as you've done so, this post is the result of Madcotto seeking to portray a post as me calling another user 'stupid'.
As you can see for yourself, I did no such thing: http://community.youview.com/youview/...
He was then told by someone else about his posts - which included suggestions of violence against me - and descended into open abuse.
I've done nothing to no-one, including nothing to justify your jibe either.
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"ITS A BOY" I shouted "A BOY, I DON'T BELIEVE IT, ITS A BOY" and with tears streaming down my face I swore I'd never visit another Thai brothel!!!
If that's what 'Every forum needs a Martin' was intended to convey then i'll take it as a compliment of sorts which I missed the first time round.
Having had words twisted, sugestions of violence towsrds me and outright verbal abuse you perhaps will be kind enough to understand and forgive if I was defensive and misunderstood your post.
I don't see how describing someone as infomed and helpful, if terse but doesn't suffer fools is a jibe?
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Martin 8 minutes ago
Hi
If that's what 'Every forum needs a Martin' was intended to convey then i'll take it as a compliment of sorts which I missed the first time round.
Having had words twisted, sugestions of violence towsrds me and outright verbal abuse you perhaps will be kind enough to understand and forgive if I was defensive and misunderstood your post.
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It would seem you view any disagreement with your opinion on this forum as an attack upon your person. And always react to such alternative views in both an aggressive and confrontational manner. And such behavior is neither conducive nor constructive in what is an internet forum. Where everyone is entitled to their opinion. After all, thats the whole point of a forum in the first place.
"I totally disagree with what your saying, but I totally defend your democratic right to say it."
Apart from in Martins world.
Which is quite sad, actually.
VM signing off.
Someone fabricated an entirely unthought and unsaid by me 'meaning' to a post, then intimated that they thought I should be punched for a comment that existed only in their head before finally launching into a totally unprovoked verbal assault on me.
In my view that falls way beyond one's right to hold a different opinion to others.
It was also not merely only my view, it is a matter of fact and other posters told the culprit of his/her behaviour.
As I said to Gomez, if my processing of that nonsense lead me to misread his comments then he has my apology. I've never claimed perfection.
You meanwhile continue to make very clear swipes at me while at the same time claiming to be outraged and disapponted by my demeanour and behaviour.
However I think I have the solution.
I'll not address you again on this forum, and you, as you're so keen on respecting other people's opinions and are not a moderator, can cease issuing dictates such as:
"Martin... Keyboard Warrior Martin. Just shut up. Please. For once."
while at the same time claiming a respect for other people's right to post.
.
It is a classic case of not what you say but how you say it. You have seriously annoyed me at times but I will not be driven away because of you. I would ask Madcotto to reconsider, He/she has a lot to offer this forum and has done so in the past.
I'm sure that at times I'm as annoying as anyone else here with a strong or opposing view, you included.
Where we differ is that I don't feel the need to endlessly tell you that you're annoying which, given the lack of tolerance I'm so often accused of, is pretty startling.
Howver annoying you find me, that doesn't make it ok for people to lie and claim that I really meant Y when I said X or to talk about punching me or launch into a sweary tirade when they're told that what was meant is what was said.
If I'd done that to you you wouldn't tolerate it, why should I?
As for
>> maybe you should pause and read what you have typed before hitting "reply".
Given the way a perfectly vanilla statement of opinion was willfully twisted beyond all logic or comprehension into a claim that I'd called someone "stupid" I very much doubt there's much I could post that someone couldn't claim outrage over.
But I do find it interesting that you make no criticism of madcattos dishonest parsing and twisting of my post, his/her failure to contact the mods if they really thought what they claimed to think, their talk of violence towards me and finally their foul-mouthed rant that was removed by a moderator.
You and at least one other person in this thread have chosen to gloss over the fact that I was the target (victim would be OTT) of an unprovoked attack while publicly laying into what you see as my failings.
Indeed you even call for the culprit to remain in the forums, expressing absolutely no word or criticism about their behaviour.
That's your choice but I think sadly it makes you look less than consistent in your approach.
Are there such threads for all the people that I might find annoying or disagree with?
Or should we talk about Youview and just accept those people for what they are?
In the past various topics have sprung up in response to this such as
http://community.youview.com/youview/...
http://community.youview.com/youview/...
http://community.youview.com/youview/...
http://community.youview.com/youview/...
Such topics in themselves tend to have spawned some discussion and debate but also tended to clear the air or at least return the forum to a better state of harmony. Overall though that level of harmony whilst rising and falling at different times does seem to be showing an overall downward trend. Any such downward trend in forum effectiveness, inclusiveness, appeal and harmony is something the community should not wish to see and should expect to reverse or settle at a sensible, constructive and productive level.
I have on the odd occasion asked myself should I continue to contribute to the forum/community. Whilst I have been posting less of late I do still read (almost) all posts to keep abreast of what is happening and then reply where there is something more I can add. It is pleasing to see that there are some new people on the forum who have not just come to get help but are also offering good advice and support to others too. Equally though it is disappointing to see that some valuable members have dropped away, be that simply posting less or even closing their account in at least one case. People may drop away from the forum for any number of reasons though and it need not be anything to do with their view of it and could just as equally be for other reasons including deciding the product is not for them and moving their attention elsewhere.
I do think there is never a time on the forum where it is appropriate to resort to direct insults and/or swearing. Madcotto clearly snapped yesterday which was unexpected in the context of that topic alone and inappropriate in general on the forum. Likewise though Martin has also snapped on another topic in the last 10 days and neither should be condoned for using the f word (and I'm sure they regret it now and would not do so again). Others have also gone too far in the past with inappropriate and unnecessary statements they have made.
Martin, in particular, has come in for some significant criticism from some. Martin is (one of) the most visible people on this forum having outposted anyone else by a factor of about 2, and all but about 2 people by a factor of about 4 or more. Some above have made comments about Martin, personally I have found lots of useful information within the posts he has made whilst equally seeing some as quite terse, direct or challenging (but personally taking no offence nor assuming any was meant even if one could choose to read something into what was written when it would not have generally been meant that way) and others still as lengthy and sometimes circular debates (generally so because there are opposing points of view and neither is fundamentally wrong/incorrect and they are simply different positions on an issue/topic). I see it as possible for people to consider such posts as helpful and informative (which would tend to be backed up by the clear support and thanks Martin receives for his efforts on the forum either in the form of stars or simply replies of thanks) whilst others clearly at times read into the postings a tone or confrontational nature that they do not like.
Martin and Madcotto though should not solely be singled out as if they are fundamentally at fault, or even if they are that they are the only people. Gomez and redchiz have at times been misunderstood or involved in tense debate to name but two more.
So where does the forum go from here. Well I would still like to encourage anyone/everyone to contribute in an open and friendly manner. Healthy discussion and debate should also be welcome. Someone mentioned before about having a bad point option as an opposite to the good point/answer stars etc. As was noted then that seems like a bad idea (and Get Satisfaction would be highly unlikely to implement it even if it were requested). So it remains up to the community as a whole to contribute positively and show respect. Community members should continue to acknowledge good points and answers with stars but likewise may wish to think twice about staring posts that potentially egg on debates that then tend to cause temperatures to rise and ultimately only detract from the forum.
I welcome the engagement of YouView (both in providing the forum and posting on it, particularly Tanja and Piers). I appreciate they have commercial and contractual terms that may limit how open they can be with their posts. I've had very limited additional engagement with YouView outside of the forum since being made a champion. I'm happy for that to stay that way but equally would be willing to engage further with them outside the forum (be it via email, phone or even visting them in person) if that could be of any help. That could be to discuss some of the points people raise on the forum but YouView feel so far they cannot respond to such as detailed lists of changes in updates, accurate recording, clipping and (soft/intelligent) padding, boot fail invalid signature progress, general bug fix and development pace and constraints etc. Of course any such discussions may not bear any obvious fruit in the short term that can be seen from the perspective of the forum and anything discussed would most likely be considered confidential and hence I might not be able say anything on the forum about what I might learn from YouView (or even what I may tell them).
Overall though as has been said before, let's all try harder to get on, welcome and help others and show the necessary amount of understanding and tolerance.
(a tip I sometimes fail to observe myself)
As always, a balanced and even-handed post.
As I said in an email to the mods last night - sent before any talk of punching or swearing - a situation in which one's posts are endlessly rewritten by others who wish to assert they meant something else is untenable and a forum where that behaviour is tolerated will rapidly become very unpleasant for all.
Throw in the obvious double standard of third parties claiming that a post secretly meant something else while at the same egging on, making and celebrating overt jibes and you have recipe for endless disharmony.
Tragically I think this is rapidly going to become a forum where only a single mindset is allowed - if you disagree on an issue others care passionately for you will endlessly be shouted down across all manner of threads and discussions.
All nuance is rapidly being stripped from the claimed understanding of people's posts so that someone posting that they think padding has its uses but mentioning that YouView have said it won't be simple or quick to add is, within 2 posts, cast as an opponent of those who want padding.
The number of instances in which this appears to be a simple misreading rather than deliberate distortion seems to me to be increasing.
This does of course create the circular discussion you referred to.
Equally people seem to be wanting to take a simple disagreement in one thread across to each and every subsequent discussion.
Here's an example of that:
"I now see from from the Channel List Management thread that redchiz obviously can speak for himself. Can't see now why I bothered defending him."
A jibe or adverse comment based on something in another thread.
Now maybe this is the crux of people's annoyances with me, but I think each discussion is a self-contained entity, not part of an ongoing battle or row. If someone irritates you in discussion X be big enough to read their comments in discussion Y with an open mind.
People are increasingly - as happened last night - leaping in with assertions and claimed outrage in response to comments which weren't directed at them and no-one else has expressed any issue with. If one really did think the comment was out of order, the correct thing to do would be to alert the mods, not embark on a series of attacks.
More worryingly, jibes about posters - sometimes me, sometimes others - are made in threads where that person hasn't even posted and then rewarded with gold stars as if somehow something clever has been done.
Then if the target of these remarks dares respond in any way at all, they're accused of being disruptive, difficult or argumentative while the attacker is lauded and celebrated.
Is this a deliberate attempt to make them fulfil the claim or merely an unawareness on the part of some about their own behaviour and hypocrisy?
I really have no idea but when people are endlessly goaded they are guaranteed to end up posting in a defensive, even 'short' manner as they seek to reduce the potential for yet another round of jibes, sneering and attacks.
I've said it before and I'll repeat it today, if you post on a forum you will encounter people, views and opinions which you will disagree with. If you cannot cope with that then you should think twice before joining forums and asserting opinions, expecting never to have them questioned or disagreed with.
There is far too much 'playing the man, not the ball' about this forum these days and it seems to have gotten a lot worse since Christmas.
Edit: Here's an example where the constant aggro put me off of posting and adding to a discussion.
In one of the padding discussions, Tom said.
"In the highly unlikely event that someone wants to record two concurrent programmes, followed by another two"
Now actually I do this reasonably often but having typed out a response I ended up not posting it because I anticipated that any suggestion on my part that I did indeed record two concurrent shows and than another would be portrayed by someone as me being awkward.
No-one should have to refrain from posting the truth because they sense others will make them out to be liars or troublemakers.
As to why things seemed to have got worse lately? I put that down to the frustation of users not having their pet issues satisfactorily addressed and in the vacuum left by the non-response of Youview turning on each other. Prime example is the Delete Confirmation topic which seems to have split the community down the middle.
This silence by YV means there is a lot of speculation and assumptions made. I'm sorry Martin but you are one of the main culprits here. You post giving the impression that you are in full possession of the facts. Unless you are truly within the inner circle of YV it would be more helpful if you posted purely on the facts as you know them. You seem to leap to the defence of the YV Team regardless of the fact that they may be wrong
This and nothing else is what annoys me most on here. Martin is not the only culprit, but because of the large ammount of input he has given this Forum he is the most noticed.
I think it is time now that YV make their prescence felt more so that we are in a position to believe what we read. Also I would appreciate members not replying on the behalf of YV.
That may be true, but if those of us who grew up in the alt groups on usenet responded in kind to the many goadings, a) the recipients wouldn't like it and b) we'd be banned from the forum.
I'd suggest that what needs to stop are the endless expressions of views about other posters. It's not what the forums are here for.
>> As to why things seemed to have got worse lately? I put that down to the frustation of users not having their pet issues satisfactorily addressed and in the vacuum left by the non-response of Youview turning on each other. Prime example is the Delete Confirmation topic which seems to have split the community down the middle.
Possibly, it's another example where taking a middle way - my suggestion of an undelete option - gets ignored so that the speaker gets accused of being for or against one 'side'.
I also have a concern that some people think they're working their way towards promotion by acclaim by shouting down unpopular people. It's what I warned of before and I'd hate to be proven right.
My point exactly Martin, the fault lies with the YV Team. Hallelujah we agree at last.
Shut him up good and proper. But a good rule to follow when replying to a barb (real or imaginary).
Everything I post is my opinion unless obviously not and i assume people will know that, I refuse to start every sentence with IMO.
But the risk of people thinking I'm speaking on anyone else's behalf is one reason I would never - not that I'd expect it to be offered - accept an invitation to be a forum champ.
>> You seem to leap to the defence of the YV Team regardless of the fact that they may be wrong
What I try to do answer people and point them in the direction of any previous statements by YouView concerning their point or question.
Some of the decisions YouView have taken I disagree with and have said so, but there are times when I post the links or info they've provided without comment even when I think they're wrong.
I dont feel the need to always say when I think people or companies are wrong or mistaken.
>> Also I would appreciate members not replying on the behalf of YV.
If I'm guilty of looking like I'm doing that, it's because of the time it can take for a YV staff member to answer and I hate to think of people sitting waiting for an answer I might have at least some knowledge of.
Now, if you or another experienced person directly calls for a YV rep to answer that's very different to not answering a newer member who might ask YouView for help with an issue you or I know and can help with.
Plus this is primarily a community forum so most of the answers are going to come from the community.