Removal of Delete Confirmation mildly deprecated

2

Comments

  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 11:30PM
    Keith1 said:

    Given that the removal of this option received negative feedback within hours of the features software update on 30/10/2012 and has continued to receive negative feedback since I would be surprised if YouView do absolutely nothing about it by the next features update which is likely to happen in January (so hopefully at most a month away now).

    As well as this topic about the issue there are also lots of comments and feedback on the change within these topics:

    On the undelete topic I have previously given my thoughts on what they could do now which is basically in line with many of the other comments people have made, i.e. bring back the confirmation step but then make an option to disable it for those that want to (i.e. the default behaviour would be safe again but for those that want speed over safety they can turn it off although they would be better served if they also then had an undelete option to recover from any occasional mistakes).

    Whilst I would think reenabling the confirmation step and even adding an option to disable it, for those that do not want it, was quick and straight forward there may still be reasons why YouView do not do this for the January update. If that is the case and nothing changes though in the January update I would hope YouView would post on the forum further information about what they are doing and hence their view/perspective on the issue, e.g. they could post to say an undelete option is in development and will be available in say April (which seems unlikely) or they could post to say despite the general majority view on the forum that the removal of the confirmation step is bad that their wider testing and customer feedback shows a strong preference for the current setup.

    Overall though I would simply hope that as a bare minimum in the next update they make the confirmation step an option and thus fairly easily address the issue in a way that can work well for all users.
    I agree if there is an undelete function then a confirmation step is not strictly necessary (to avoid or recover from incorrect presses of the delete button) and personally if there were an undelete function I would turn off delete confirmation and rely solely on the undelete feature. However, I can still see a place for a confirmation step for some and potentially even having it as the default still so that the default operation is as safe and obvious as possible as many expect such prompts and know how to respond to them whilst may not be as aware of an undelete function. A confirmation step is also more likely to prevent unseen/difficult to spot accidents that some may wish to protect against, e.g. small children or pets pressing random remote buttons etc. So I can see reasons for both features even though I would personally go with undelete over confirmation.

    Had YouView left the confirmation step in until such time as an undelete feature were introduced (which would of course have been a better approach) then I expect many people would have been happy with the change but I would not have been surprised to have then seen a reasonable number of people calling for the confirmation step to still be restored or made optional.

    It is not for me to say how easy putting in an optional confirmation step would be and although I can and have speculated it would not be too difficult or time consuming I could not give a more informed opinion without seeing the code (which of course is not open source so that is not an option). I certainly would not want YouView to devote lots of time to implementing an optional delete confirmation step or an undelete feature at this stage when there are potentially other more important things to work on and reverting the change to put back a compulsory confirmation step would be quick to do and could thus be seen as the best short term option if nothing else is in the pipeline for the short term that would be preferred.

    So hopefully by the January update we will either see the compulsory confirmation step restored, such a step made optional, an undelete feature implemented or a broad response on the forum from YouView to indicate the direction they are likely to go with this and when changes may thus happen so those who have given feedback feel reassured appropriate action is being taken.
  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 30 December 2012, 5:52PM
    Keith1 said:

    Given that the removal of this option received negative feedback within hours of the features software update on 30/10/2012 and has continued to receive negative feedback since I would be surprised if YouView do absolutely nothing about it by the next features update which is likely to happen in January (so hopefully at most a month away now).

    As well as this topic about the issue there are also lots of comments and feedback on the change within these topics:

    On the undelete topic I have previously given my thoughts on what they could do now which is basically in line with many of the other comments people have made, i.e. bring back the confirmation step but then make an option to disable it for those that want to (i.e. the default behaviour would be safe again but for those that want speed over safety they can turn it off although they would be better served if they also then had an undelete option to recover from any occasional mistakes).

    Whilst I would think reenabling the confirmation step and even adding an option to disable it, for those that do not want it, was quick and straight forward there may still be reasons why YouView do not do this for the January update. If that is the case and nothing changes though in the January update I would hope YouView would post on the forum further information about what they are doing and hence their view/perspective on the issue, e.g. they could post to say an undelete option is in development and will be available in say April (which seems unlikely) or they could post to say despite the general majority view on the forum that the removal of the confirmation step is bad that their wider testing and customer feedback shows a strong preference for the current setup.

    Overall though I would simply hope that as a bare minimum in the next update they make the confirmation step an option and thus fairly easily address the issue in a way that can work well for all users.
    The main problem about too many options is how the interactions between them can spiral in an unforeseen and hard to control and and hard to understand manner. See the recent confusion caused over the simple case of Eco mode and RF Pass Through.
  • edited 30 December 2012, 5:59PM
    Keith1 said:

    Given that the removal of this option received negative feedback within hours of the features software update on 30/10/2012 and has continued to receive negative feedback since I would be surprised if YouView do absolutely nothing about it by the next features update which is likely to happen in January (so hopefully at most a month away now).

    As well as this topic about the issue there are also lots of comments and feedback on the change within these topics:

    On the undelete topic I have previously given my thoughts on what they could do now which is basically in line with many of the other comments people have made, i.e. bring back the confirmation step but then make an option to disable it for those that want to (i.e. the default behaviour would be safe again but for those that want speed over safety they can turn it off although they would be better served if they also then had an undelete option to recover from any occasional mistakes).

    Whilst I would think reenabling the confirmation step and even adding an option to disable it, for those that do not want it, was quick and straight forward there may still be reasons why YouView do not do this for the January update. If that is the case and nothing changes though in the January update I would hope YouView would post on the forum further information about what they are doing and hence their view/perspective on the issue, e.g. they could post to say an undelete option is in development and will be available in say April (which seems unlikely) or they could post to say despite the general majority view on the forum that the removal of the confirmation step is bad that their wider testing and customer feedback shows a strong preference for the current setup.

    Overall though I would simply hope that as a bare minimum in the next update they make the confirmation step an option and thus fairly easily address the issue in a way that can work well for all users.
    Agree Gomez, see also the remote record app which can't actually be used if you're using one of two power mode options.

    Both are further reasons I could have given here

    http://community.youview.com/youview/...

    for why options aren't always a great idea.
  • Robin AbbottRobin Abbott Member Posts: 18
    edited 30 December 2012, 10:51PM
    Having a lot of options is something which ought to be manageable provided that the HCI design team actually research what groupings of tasks are intuitive and logical.

    A function to enable delete confirmations ought to be enabled by default however as that is, at least, fail safe.
  • Tim WaltersTim Walters Member Posts: 9
    edited 31 January 2013, 11:55AM
    I think the visual indication "Deleting..." would show the user that the delete command was recieved.

    It seems to me that many a user here believes that the command was not recieved by the box, thus getting them to send a second delete command.

    Just an idea...
  • Tim WaltersTim Walters Member Posts: 9
    edited 31 January 2013, 11:55AM
    In addition to this, an option to tag recordings for deletion and selecting a 'Delete Selected' button on screen using 'OK' - with a confirmation message to show it is in progress as in previous message.

    Just another idea...
  • Andrew MarlowAndrew Marlow Member Posts: 65
    edited 14 January 2013, 10:03PM
    bbbuk said:

    I too have just accidently deleted a recording.

    Having just read that a, "are you sure" prompt was there in the past but has been removed in a firmware/software update due to demand (I assume) then the only way to please those that want a "are you sure" prompt and those that don't is to have in the settings whether to enable "are you sure" prompt.

    This way those that would like it (me being one) can enable it and those that prefer to have one press to delete something can disable the prompt.

    I second that. Lots of people seem to want it to say "are you sure" but I don't and I am not alone. It seems to me that to please us all it has to be configurable. I will even concede to "are you sure" being the default, since most people seem to want it that way.
  • Andrew MarlowAndrew Marlow Member Posts: 65
    edited 14 January 2013, 10:05PM
    Keith1 said:

    Given that the removal of this option received negative feedback within hours of the features software update on 30/10/2012 and has continued to receive negative feedback since I would be surprised if YouView do absolutely nothing about it by the next features update which is likely to happen in January (so hopefully at most a month away now).

    As well as this topic about the issue there are also lots of comments and feedback on the change within these topics:

    On the undelete topic I have previously given my thoughts on what they could do now which is basically in line with many of the other comments people have made, i.e. bring back the confirmation step but then make an option to disable it for those that want to (i.e. the default behaviour would be safe again but for those that want speed over safety they can turn it off although they would be better served if they also then had an undelete option to recover from any occasional mistakes).

    Whilst I would think reenabling the confirmation step and even adding an option to disable it, for those that do not want it, was quick and straight forward there may still be reasons why YouView do not do this for the January update. If that is the case and nothing changes though in the January update I would hope YouView would post on the forum further information about what they are doing and hence their view/perspective on the issue, e.g. they could post to say an undelete option is in development and will be available in say April (which seems unlikely) or they could post to say despite the general majority view on the forum that the removal of the confirmation step is bad that their wider testing and customer feedback shows a strong preference for the current setup.

    Overall though I would simply hope that as a bare minimum in the next update they make the confirmation step an option and thus fairly easily address the issue in a way that can work well for all users.
    I agree that options aren't always a good idea but I think it would be good for this function. There seems to be quite a split between people that want "are you sure?" and people (like me) who are very much against it. So in this case I reckon it is not a gratuitous option.
  • edited 14 January 2013, 10:14PM
    Keith1 said:

    Given that the removal of this option received negative feedback within hours of the features software update on 30/10/2012 and has continued to receive negative feedback since I would be surprised if YouView do absolutely nothing about it by the next features update which is likely to happen in January (so hopefully at most a month away now).

    As well as this topic about the issue there are also lots of comments and feedback on the change within these topics:

    On the undelete topic I have previously given my thoughts on what they could do now which is basically in line with many of the other comments people have made, i.e. bring back the confirmation step but then make an option to disable it for those that want to (i.e. the default behaviour would be safe again but for those that want speed over safety they can turn it off although they would be better served if they also then had an undelete option to recover from any occasional mistakes).

    Whilst I would think reenabling the confirmation step and even adding an option to disable it, for those that do not want it, was quick and straight forward there may still be reasons why YouView do not do this for the January update. If that is the case and nothing changes though in the January update I would hope YouView would post on the forum further information about what they are doing and hence their view/perspective on the issue, e.g. they could post to say an undelete option is in development and will be available in say April (which seems unlikely) or they could post to say despite the general majority view on the forum that the removal of the confirmation step is bad that their wider testing and customer feedback shows a strong preference for the current setup.

    Overall though I would simply hope that as a bare minimum in the next update they make the confirmation step an option and thus fairly easily address the issue in a way that can work well for all users.
    Hi Andrew

    As i've posted before, if YouView simply added an undelete/recycle bin option there would be no need for confirmation prompts or options. In the even something was accidentally deleted or a user changed their mind, the recordings could be easily recovered.

    Surely that would not only suit everyone's needs, but also bring the box up to spec with Virgin's TiVo and the Sky+ HD both of which now support undelete.
  • Andrew MarlowAndrew Marlow Member Posts: 65
    edited 14 January 2013, 10:17PM
    Keith1 said:

    Given that the removal of this option received negative feedback within hours of the features software update on 30/10/2012 and has continued to receive negative feedback since I would be surprised if YouView do absolutely nothing about it by the next features update which is likely to happen in January (so hopefully at most a month away now).

    As well as this topic about the issue there are also lots of comments and feedback on the change within these topics:

    On the undelete topic I have previously given my thoughts on what they could do now which is basically in line with many of the other comments people have made, i.e. bring back the confirmation step but then make an option to disable it for those that want to (i.e. the default behaviour would be safe again but for those that want speed over safety they can turn it off although they would be better served if they also then had an undelete option to recover from any occasional mistakes).

    Whilst I would think reenabling the confirmation step and even adding an option to disable it, for those that do not want it, was quick and straight forward there may still be reasons why YouView do not do this for the January update. If that is the case and nothing changes though in the January update I would hope YouView would post on the forum further information about what they are doing and hence their view/perspective on the issue, e.g. they could post to say an undelete option is in development and will be available in say April (which seems unlikely) or they could post to say despite the general majority view on the forum that the removal of the confirmation step is bad that their wider testing and customer feedback shows a strong preference for the current setup.

    Overall though I would simply hope that as a bare minimum in the next update they make the confirmation step an option and thus fairly easily address the issue in a way that can work well for all users.
    I agree with you, I am and have always been against systems that ask "Are you sure?". IMO it is the systems way of blaming you when you say "yes" but late regret it and wish you'd said "no". But many people disagree and want "are you sure". What to do...?
  • edited 14 January 2013, 10:23PM
    Keith1 said:

    Given that the removal of this option received negative feedback within hours of the features software update on 30/10/2012 and has continued to receive negative feedback since I would be surprised if YouView do absolutely nothing about it by the next features update which is likely to happen in January (so hopefully at most a month away now).

    As well as this topic about the issue there are also lots of comments and feedback on the change within these topics:

    On the undelete topic I have previously given my thoughts on what they could do now which is basically in line with many of the other comments people have made, i.e. bring back the confirmation step but then make an option to disable it for those that want to (i.e. the default behaviour would be safe again but for those that want speed over safety they can turn it off although they would be better served if they also then had an undelete option to recover from any occasional mistakes).

    Whilst I would think reenabling the confirmation step and even adding an option to disable it, for those that do not want it, was quick and straight forward there may still be reasons why YouView do not do this for the January update. If that is the case and nothing changes though in the January update I would hope YouView would post on the forum further information about what they are doing and hence their view/perspective on the issue, e.g. they could post to say an undelete option is in development and will be available in say April (which seems unlikely) or they could post to say despite the general majority view on the forum that the removal of the confirmation step is bad that their wider testing and customer feedback shows a strong preference for the current setup.

    Overall though I would simply hope that as a bare minimum in the next update they make the confirmation step an option and thus fairly easily address the issue in a way that can work well for all users.
    >> But many people disagree and want "are you sure". What to do...?

    Bluntly, ignore them & implement an undelete feature for the reasons given above? ;-)

    As the quote often attributed to Henry Ford goes; "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
  • Deadly FartsDeadly Farts Member Posts: 27 ✭✭
    edited 30 January 2013, 2:56PM
    Where exactly was this registered as a burning requirement to be implemented.

    I wanted subtitles on on-demand video, and 5.1 sound. The sound issue is fixed (Thanks very much!)

    I'm still waiting for subtitles though.

    And now I need a small plastic ring around the del button as on the corner it's easily pressed by accident - there isn't even a short lived popup to feedback that it's done anything.
  • Nigel MercierNigel Mercier Member Posts: 47
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    I was shocked when hitting the Delete button caused the recording to be deleted with no confirm request. At the very least there should be a request for unwatched recordings.
  • Andrew MarlowAndrew Marlow Member Posts: 65
    edited 9 February 2013, 9:19AM

    I was shocked when hitting the Delete button caused the recording to be deleted with no confirm request. At the very least there should be a request for unwatched recordings.

    That's because you have become so used to computers that say "Are you sure?".
  • Deadly FartsDeadly Farts Member Posts: 27 ✭✭
    edited 10 February 2013, 9:42PM

    I was shocked when hitting the Delete button caused the recording to be deleted with no confirm request. At the very least there should be a request for unwatched recordings.

    Exactly - people have learned and become used to a de-facto standard that evolved over decades - not just on computers. try removing anything on a mobile phone or tablet.

    For good reason, without a restore facility, deleting must require confirmation.

    Just because no-one dies on an accidental recording deletion, doesn't make it a good thing to make it so easy - compounded by 2 factors, no feedback after it's done (trying deleting in a folder full of recording of the same name) and the delete key is right on the corner.

    It's cause emotional pain and suffering.
  • PPP QQQPPP QQQ Member Posts: 857
    edited 10 February 2013, 10:07PM

    I was shocked when hitting the Delete button caused the recording to be deleted with no confirm request. At the very least there should be a request for unwatched recordings.

    Really?

    Most of these programmes will come round again.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,376 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:38AM

    I was shocked when hitting the Delete button caused the recording to be deleted with no confirm request. At the very least there should be a request for unwatched recordings.

    Really? I've been lying in wait for Cariani and the Courtesans for years now :-((
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • PPP QQQPPP QQQ Member Posts: 857
    edited 10 February 2013, 11:49PM

    I was shocked when hitting the Delete button caused the recording to be deleted with no confirm request. At the very least there should be a request for unwatched recordings.

    Most, not all. And no doubt if it did ever come around you'd take care to record it more than once.

    I was moderately dismayed at the prospect of losing a seldom-shown series, when my box had to be exchanged. But I wouldn't say I was suffering.

    Mind you, I'm not sure Deadly Farts was being serious. :-)
  • TanjaTanja Member Posts: 251
    edited 6 March 2017, 10:48PM
    Hello All, I just wanted to let you know that we have brought back the confirm delete function with the new software update. The new setting enables a confirmation message whenever you try to delete a recording in MyView. You can find it in Settings > Device Management > Delete Recordings Confirmation and choose ON. (The default is OFF).
    For more information on the software update please have a look here
    http://community.youview.com/youview/...
  • LebowskiLebowski Member Posts: 82 ✭✭
    edited 17 February 2017, 1:01PM
    the recent update has made it rather easy to accidently delete recordings when trying to choose a start position. The update which gives the 'ability to select a start point when
    playing a recording' means if you are using the numbers to specify start and accidently press DEL then it's deleted straight away.
    I'd personally find the choosing a start position far more useful during playback anyway, and this would mean i'd only ever accidently hit the subtitle key!

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Missing Confirm Delete Function and Work around.
  • AxolotlAxolotl Member Posts: 53
    edited 20 February 2013, 12:18PM
    Tanja said:

    Hello All, I just wanted to let you know that we have brought back the confirm delete function with the new software update. The new setting enables a confirmation message whenever you try to delete a recording in MyView. You can find it in Settings > Device Management > Delete Recordings Confirmation and choose ON. (The default is OFF).
    For more information on the software update please have a look here
    http://community.youview.com/youview/...

    Hooray!
  • marcusd666marcusd666 Member Posts: 14
    edited 20 February 2013, 12:44PM
    Tanja said:

    Hello All, I just wanted to let you know that we have brought back the confirm delete function with the new software update. The new setting enables a confirmation message whenever you try to delete a recording in MyView. You can find it in Settings > Device Management > Delete Recordings Confirmation and choose ON. (The default is OFF).
    For more information on the software update please have a look here
    http://community.youview.com/youview/...

    That's great news it's to see that youview listen to there users not like other tv systems out there.

    Thanks again.
  • Tim WaltersTim Walters Member Posts: 9
    edited 20 February 2013, 3:22PM
    Tanja said:

    Hello All, I just wanted to let you know that we have brought back the confirm delete function with the new software update. The new setting enables a confirmation message whenever you try to delete a recording in MyView. You can find it in Settings > Device Management > Delete Recordings Confirmation and choose ON. (The default is OFF).
    For more information on the software update please have a look here
    http://community.youview.com/youview/...

    Indeed so. A well deserved 'Thankyou' to the YouView staff.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,376 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:38AM
    Tanja said:

    Hello All, I just wanted to let you know that we have brought back the confirm delete function with the new software update. The new setting enables a confirmation message whenever you try to delete a recording in MyView. You can find it in Settings > Device Management > Delete Recordings Confirmation and choose ON. (The default is OFF).
    For more information on the software update please have a look here
    http://community.youview.com/youview/...

    Thank you, Tanya. The restoration of this feature is m^hwildly appreciated.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 20 February 2013, 3:40PM
    Lebowski said:

    the recent update has made it rather easy to accidently delete recordings when trying to choose a start position. The update which gives the 'ability to select a start point when
    playing a recording' means if you are using the numbers to specify start and accidently press DEL then it's deleted straight away.
    I'd personally find the choosing a start position far more useful during playback anyway, and this would mean i'd only ever accidently hit the subtitle key!

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Missing Confirm Delete Function and Work around.

    The recent update (January's) or yesterday's update?

    I have found that since using my Harmony 555 remote control with the DEL function defined as a soft key at the top well away from the number pad or other keys commonly used in the Schedule display etc that I actually now prefer not to have the confirm. Perverse or what?
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Member, Super User Posts: 862 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 November 2016, 11:55AM
    Lebowski said:

    the recent update has made it rather easy to accidently delete recordings when trying to choose a start position. The update which gives the 'ability to select a start point when
    playing a recording' means if you are using the numbers to specify start and accidently press DEL then it's deleted straight away.
    I'd personally find the choosing a start position far more useful during playback anyway, and this would mean i'd only ever accidently hit the subtitle key!

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Missing Confirm Delete Function and Work around.

    "....I actually now prefer not to have the confirm. Perverse or what? "

    But now at least configurable :-)
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • CiceroCicero Member Posts: 345
    edited 20 February 2013, 3:48PM
    Lebowski said:

    the recent update has made it rather easy to accidently delete recordings when trying to choose a start position. The update which gives the 'ability to select a start point when
    playing a recording' means if you are using the numbers to specify start and accidently press DEL then it's deleted straight away.
    I'd personally find the choosing a start position far more useful during playback anyway, and this would mean i'd only ever accidently hit the subtitle key!

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Missing Confirm Delete Function and Work around.

    Gomez, "The recent update (January's) or yesterday's update?"

    That threw me as well on first reading, but I presume it's January's update being referred to and the recent date on Lebowski's comment arises from it being created from a merged topic.
  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 20 February 2013, 4:01PM
    Lebowski said:

    the recent update has made it rather easy to accidently delete recordings when trying to choose a start position. The update which gives the 'ability to select a start point when
    playing a recording' means if you are using the numbers to specify start and accidently press DEL then it's deleted straight away.
    I'd personally find the choosing a start position far more useful during playback anyway, and this would mean i'd only ever accidently hit the subtitle key!

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Missing Confirm Delete Function and Work around.

    Another strike for this forum software.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,376 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 8:38AM
    Tanja said:

    Hello All, I just wanted to let you know that we have brought back the confirm delete function with the new software update. The new setting enables a confirmation message whenever you try to delete a recording in MyView. You can find it in Settings > Device Management > Delete Recordings Confirmation and choose ON. (The default is OFF).
    For more information on the software update please have a look here
    http://community.youview.com/youview/...

    Well, having confidently gone to check on, or get, the update, as every previous one has been available to me within the hour, I find it's not here yet.

    Fair enough, that's what a staggered rollout means - but do I take it that this rollout is staggering in a different sequence to the previous ones?
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Barry1Barry1 Member Posts: 2
    edited 26 September 2013, 8:33AM
    Why dont you just follow Sky's example and produce a box on the design lines as theirs
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