Eco modes (and start-up times): neither are currently satisfactory

1235

Comments

  • Dave11Dave11 Member Posts: 3
    edited 25 April 2013, 11:48AM
    Repeating what other people have said, a medium power mode would be perfect for me. Basically have it 'on' (current Eco-low) but spin the disks down. There's something disconcerting about the box humming away when it's supposed to be off
  • PiersPiers Member Posts: 561 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 23 February 2017, 1:13PM
    Hi Dave. This isn't possible on the with the current Humax box - at least not with the current software from Humax. I will pass the message onto their tech team though.
  • Mark14Mark14 Member Posts: 3
    edited 11 July 2017, 3:57PM
    Another idea would be to shut the internet connection off when in low eco mode, this would also send powerline adaptors into power save mode rather than leaving them on all time. Particularly useful overnight or if you are out all day. The box could automatically reconnect to the internet once switched on.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,002 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:38AM
    Mark14 said:

    Another idea would be to shut the internet connection off when in low eco mode, this would also send powerline adaptors into power save mode rather than leaving them on all time. Particularly useful overnight or if you are out all day. The box could automatically reconnect to the internet once switched on.

    And you would get your software and player updates how?

    But these do occur at specific times of the night, so the box could wake up and put the Internet back on, I guess, much as it now wakes up and records stuff.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Bob HillBob Hill Member Posts: 1
    edited 10 May 2013, 11:56AM
    Rob3 said:

    This ought to be the number one issue to solve. I see no reason why the box should be looking for an internet connection or any peripheral activity until after it has come awake and provided basic 'TV' functionality, most 'Smart TV's' are at least this smart, user's don't mind waiting for the EPG to populate, they do mind waiting for a picture.

    I am a new television user...although I have been with talk talk for years....and it does seem to take forever to boot up, so to speak
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,002 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:38AM
    Rob3 said:

    This ought to be the number one issue to solve. I see no reason why the box should be looking for an internet connection or any peripheral activity until after it has come awake and provided basic 'TV' functionality, most 'Smart TV's' are at least this smart, user's don't mind waiting for the EPG to populate, they do mind waiting for a picture.

    Low Eco mode boots tolerably quickly, though it uses more power in standby, maybe 7p a day.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • ajpriceajprice Member Posts: 6
    edited 12 May 2013, 9:41AM
    Mark14 said:

    Another idea would be to shut the internet connection off when in low eco mode, this would also send powerline adaptors into power save mode rather than leaving them on all time. Particularly useful overnight or if you are out all day. The box could automatically reconnect to the internet once switched on.

    I have a Sony PS3 console, there is a setting in that to turn on at a set time to download any game or system updates and turn off again. Before I had unlimited broadband I'd set this to 2am (downloads between midnight and 8am didn't count towards my monthly download limit). If Youview had an offline Eco mode with lower power use with a setting to go periodically online and check for updates and remote recordings at a certain time, that would work for me.
  • bramblebramble Member Posts: 118
    edited 12 May 2013, 10:36AM
    Mark14 said:

    Another idea would be to shut the internet connection off when in low eco mode, this would also send powerline adaptors into power save mode rather than leaving them on all time. Particularly useful overnight or if you are out all day. The box could automatically reconnect to the internet once switched on.

    My youview box is set to High Eco saving and, as far as I know, it still checks in the middle of the night.

    ajprice I like your idea of time controlled settings, maybe:

    - A time after which standby would put the box into High Eco saving, probably late evening.
    - A time after which the box would switch itself in standby from High to Low Eco saving, probably in the afternoon.If you switched on before that time, the start up would be slow, but normally it would be the less slow boot up (I can't bring myself to say fast!)

    However, thinking aloud, if it's true that the disk and/or fan keep spinning in Low Eco saving, maybe I would still like to avoid it.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 12 May 2013, 12:21PM
    Mark14 said:

    Another idea would be to shut the internet connection off when in low eco mode, this would also send powerline adaptors into power save mode rather than leaving them on all time. Particularly useful overnight or if you are out all day. The box could automatically reconnect to the internet once switched on.

    That's the same as my hybrid power mode idea - see link above form Keith. Perhaps you could visit that link and support the idea?
  • bramblebramble Member Posts: 118
    edited 12 May 2013, 1:20PM
    Mark14 said:

    Another idea would be to shut the internet connection off when in low eco mode, this would also send powerline adaptors into power save mode rather than leaving them on all time. Particularly useful overnight or if you are out all day. The box could automatically reconnect to the internet once switched on.

    Adrian, Good proposal - I've supported it and I'm surprised it hasn't got more support.

    However, I still have concerns about even limited use of Low Eco saving mode if the suggestions that the disk drive / fan keep running are true.Can anyone confirm this?
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 12 May 2013, 2:28PM
    Mark14 said:

    Another idea would be to shut the internet connection off when in low eco mode, this would also send powerline adaptors into power save mode rather than leaving them on all time. Particularly useful overnight or if you are out all day. The box could automatically reconnect to the internet once switched on.

    On my Huawei box, the disk drive does keep running in Low Eco mode (but is off in High Eco Mode) - there is no fan.
  • Dave11Dave11 Member Posts: 3
    edited 13 May 2013, 8:28AM
    Mark14 said:

    Another idea would be to shut the internet connection off when in low eco mode, this would also send powerline adaptors into power save mode rather than leaving them on all time. Particularly useful overnight or if you are out all day. The box could automatically reconnect to the internet once switched on.

    Yep, the disk drive keeps humming away all day and night while in Low Eco mode.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited 30 June 2013, 2:49AM
    Piers2 said:

    We're continually optimising and we've reduced the resume from active standby (when using eco mode low) by about 5 seconds in the October release. The boot up time from cold or eco mode high has also been reduced by about 20 seconds, and we hope to see a further improvements in the following release.

    Brb - yes, please keep us posted on the coffee race. We're working hard to beat any coffee machine out there... :)

    Piers should the hard drive constantly spin in Low eco mode? Would it not cause extra wear and tear and constant spinning make box warm could it cause a fire hazzard if not given any time to spin down / cool down frim time to time. Im not technical so prob its ok to constantly spin on low eco mode.. does seem unnecessary but not technical so could you find out and advise. Many thanks for your help and time.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 10:29PM
    Piers2 said:

    We're continually optimising and we've reduced the resume from active standby (when using eco mode low) by about 5 seconds in the October release. The boot up time from cold or eco mode high has also been reduced by about 20 seconds, and we hope to see a further improvements in the following release.

    Brb - yes, please keep us posted on the coffee race. We're working hard to beat any coffee machine out there... :)

    Hi James - a later post from Piers in this topic in response to a comment by Dave asking why the disk could not spin down in low eco mode when not in active use would seem to confirm that the disk does indeed stay spinning currently but that having it spin down is something YouView have asked Humax to look at implementing.

    Having the disk constantly spinning is a waste of energy but not a fire hazzard (some systems that use similar disks will no doubt be in constant use for years on end without any ill effect). One would expect there is some wear factor but the disk should still last many many years unless you are unlucky. That said having it spin down would be a better solution in the long run if they could implement it.
  • edited 4 March 2017, 9:29AM
    This thread has been neglected.
    I completely agree with Keith's original post.

    I recently bought a AV Receiver which has a standby consumption of 0.45 watts - which meets the current EC regulations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EC_Regul...).
    One of it's best tricks is that I can play a music file to it from my PC which wakes it up if it's in standby.
    Surely the technology exists for the YouView box to be woken from it's high Eco mode by messages from people's phone apps?
    If not, is it really complying with the EC regulation?
  • sam1sam1 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭
    edited 25 September 2013, 9:47AM
    gwatuk, I completely agree. If the box had a single fit-for-purpose standby mode, which could cope with upgrades, remote recording, and waking up fully within a reasonable time, I'd be happy.

    And I'd be able to use the app, which at the moment I can't use even to keep by me while watching the box, because I DON'T want to keep the YouView box running day and night. Fridge, yes. YouView, no. It's just ridiculous. :-(
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited 30 June 2013, 10:28AM
    gomez said:

    TBH I usually watch the BBC News channel or something direct from my TV while I wait for the YV box to finish booting and see the channel number displayed on the front panel. That way I completely avoid irritation or impatience.

    We are all telley addicts and cant wait 30 secs to 2minutes are eyes must be square.
  • edited 8 January 2015, 3:53PM
    Just felt my TalkTalk (Huawei) box (no fan) which has been on "standby" (low Eco) and it's really quite hot.
    This situation is ridiculous.
  • sam1sam1 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭
    edited 25 September 2013, 9:47AM
    And unnecessary.

    The disc problem could obviously be fixed, which would be a big improvement for those using low eco mode.

    Piers confirmed not long ago* that it could also be made possible to use the app in high eco mode, which would be a big improvement for those using high eco mode.

    Why can't we have these two improvements? I mean, like, SOON, not "some time in the future". :-(

    *
    Piers (Official Rep) 1 month ago
    The box does need to be on or in eco-mode low to receive the message but our servers have a "store message and forward when ready" feature. The requirement for eco-mode low is actually down the the fact that the app doesn't know if the box if box is in eco-mode high yet, and it can't warn the viewer or prevent them from booking programmes that are on today as the boxes only wake up once a night currently. We could change that but again, this would be more work that we haven't scheduled yet. The feedback is useful though, and we'll bear it in mind. thanks.
    Posted in the thread titled "YouView App Update May 2013"
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 10:29PM
    gwatuk said:

    This thread has been neglected.
    I completely agree with Keith's original post.

    I recently bought a AV Receiver which has a standby consumption of 0.45 watts - which meets the current EC regulations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EC_Regul...).
    One of it's best tricks is that I can play a music file to it from my PC which wakes it up if it's in standby.
    Surely the technology exists for the YouView box to be woken from it's high Eco mode by messages from people's phone apps?
    If not, is it really complying with the EC regulation?

    I would suspect the difficult in having the mobile app wake a box is the direction of flow of information/action. My understanding is that when you use the mobile app you are scheduling recordings on a YouView server, your YouView box in low eco mode is then periodically polling that service to collect that information and act upon it. This mode of operation means there is no issue with your YouView box/router changing IP or having incoming firewall rules breaking/blocking the communications (but does require the YouView box to be in a higher state of awakeness in order to proactively run and poll for recording updates etc). If the mobile app were to trigger a wake signal to the box that signal would need to be sent from the YouView server and to know where to send it it would effectively need to know what IP to be communicating with and not have any firewall rules get in the way of that communication. In contrast your PC within your home network can freely send a wake on lan packet or similar to your AV receiver which can thus be in a very low power state and just need the network interface to support wake on lan and boot the AV receiver up when it receives the magic packet.
  • edited 8 January 2015, 3:53PM
    gwatuk said:

    This thread has been neglected.
    I completely agree with Keith's original post.

    I recently bought a AV Receiver which has a standby consumption of 0.45 watts - which meets the current EC regulations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EC_Regul...).
    One of it's best tricks is that I can play a music file to it from my PC which wakes it up if it's in standby.
    Surely the technology exists for the YouView box to be woken from it's high Eco mode by messages from people's phone apps?
    If not, is it really complying with the EC regulation?

    Not sure what the firewall problem is all about, but everyone seems to recommend setting routers to "always on" in which case the ip address is effectively fixed isn't it?
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 10:29PM
    gwatuk said:

    This thread has been neglected.
    I completely agree with Keith's original post.

    I recently bought a AV Receiver which has a standby consumption of 0.45 watts - which meets the current EC regulations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EC_Regul...).
    One of it's best tricks is that I can play a music file to it from my PC which wakes it up if it's in standby.
    Surely the technology exists for the YouView box to be woken from it's high Eco mode by messages from people's phone apps?
    If not, is it really complying with the EC regulation?

    For most people their ISP will not allocate a fixed IP to their router. As such whenever the router is rebooted or the connection drops it will make a fresh DHCP request for an IP address. So if you keep your router on (which you generally would) and have a very stable connection your router IP will remain constant for long periods but if your connection is less stable your IP address can change more frequently (unless you have an ISP who allocates you a fixed IP). This periodic changing of IP would be something the YouView server would need to know about if it was to send signals to the box (so the box could periodically send such info but then you could get dropped recording schedule signals around the time the IP changes).

    From a router firewall perspective it would be common place to have outgoing connections open whilst incoming connections would mainly be blocked to keep you secure. Depending on what ports the YouView server needed to connect to you may thus have to adjust your firewall to allow such incoming connections. Some people have noted in the past that whilst the normal operation of the mobile app works with their router firewall on (since your YouView box is making outgoing connections), the actual initial pairing of the mobile and YouView box for some has needed them to turn the firewall off for that process (so an example of how a firewall can be a barrier to the communication). Of course turning a firewall off in general would be a bad idea so if incoming connections were required the user may need more technical know how to adjust their router firewall configuration.
  • edited 8 January 2015, 3:53PM
    gwatuk said:

    This thread has been neglected.
    I completely agree with Keith's original post.

    I recently bought a AV Receiver which has a standby consumption of 0.45 watts - which meets the current EC regulations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EC_Regul...).
    One of it's best tricks is that I can play a music file to it from my PC which wakes it up if it's in standby.
    Surely the technology exists for the YouView box to be woken from it's high Eco mode by messages from people's phone apps?
    If not, is it really complying with the EC regulation?

    Ok - I have comments on both points.
    1) If you're with TalkTalk you will generally have had your connection adjusted (slowed down!) to make it more stable for the YouView service (this is a huge source of complaints on the TalkTalk forum).
    2) With TalkTalk you are advised to use one of their "approved" routers and these are configured to allow remote maintenance etc - i.e. there is a port open to the outside world.
    Not sure how either of these points would relate to BT users, but this is a start!
  • Simon PickupSimon Pickup Member Posts: 1
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Not to sound too much like an Eco-warrior, but this day and age, shouldn't we all be turning equipment completely off when not in use and helping reduce global emissions but also, saving money. If so, having to trade off between these elements and an excessively long start up time really isn't acceptable. We can put men on the moon, but it takes so long to start your TV. Something doesn't add up!
  • edited 8 January 2015, 3:54PM

    Not to sound too much like an Eco-warrior, but this day and age, shouldn't we all be turning equipment completely off when not in use and helping reduce global emissions but also, saving money. If so, having to trade off between these elements and an excessively long start up time really isn't acceptable. We can put men on the moon, but it takes so long to start your TV. Something doesn't add up!

    I very much support this, but High Eco (less than 1watt) is fine.
    (You won't get much support from this forum on this!)
    As said above, the implementation of the app which requires Low Eco is very bad news.

    Smiley
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,002 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:38AM

    Not to sound too much like an Eco-warrior, but this day and age, shouldn't we all be turning equipment completely off when not in use and helping reduce global emissions but also, saving money. If so, having to trade off between these elements and an excessively long start up time really isn't acceptable. We can put men on the moon, but it takes so long to start your TV. Something doesn't add up!

    Do you know how long all the YouView boxes currently in High Eco mode could be run for in Low Eco mode without exceeding the energy consumption it took to put men on the moon? Enquiring minds would like to know....
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 9:29AM
    Whilst I cannot answer Roy's query above I can refer back to some earlier comments on energy consumption and cost: A broad fact from that is the difference in cost of running a box in low eco mode and high eco mode for a year is on the order of £15. To an individual this will often be considered to be low and perfectly acceptable and well worth the faster start up times and convenience that gives.

    Given that there are now about 0.5 million YouView boxes out there, the difference in cost of them all running in low eco mode rather than high eco mode is on the order of £7.5m per year. As an individual there is very little incentive to make the small personal savings although the total savings to the user base as a whole are a sum that for most of us would be very welcome if any one of us could receive the whole amount :)
  • edited 8 January 2015, 3:54PM
    Of course the answer to the start up problem is "anticipation".
    I just received a shout from the kitchen from SWMBO...
    "Can you warm the telly up for Neighbours."
    Smiley
  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 8 January 2015, 3:54PM
    Of course if you record Neighbours as a matter of course then it will have been warmed up ready for the past 10/15 minutes.
  • edited 8 January 2015, 3:54PM
    gomez said:

    Of course if you record Neighbours as a matter of course then it will have been warmed up ready for the past 10/15 minutes.

    The hard drive is full enough without this kind of *&^%$ !
Sign In or Register to comment.