Hybrid Power Mode

Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
edited 11 July 2017, 3:57PM in Archived Posts
Add a hybrid power mode with timers. It would work like this:

User selects Hybrid Eco Power mode then ..
1. User chooses a time for the option "Start Eco Mode High at ..."
2. User choosed a time for the option "End Eco Mode High at ..."

If the box is in standby at the time selected by option (1) or goes into standby between time (1) or (2) then the box will switch from Eco Mode Low to Eco Mode High.

At the time indicated by option (2) if in standby the box automatically "boots up" from Eco Mode High into Eco Mode Low.

When, at any time outside of the interval between (1) and (2) the box goes into standby, it goes into Eco Mode Low.

The box must have been in standby for at least 30 minutes before it switches from Eco Mode Low to Eco Mode High - possibly this could be a user defined delay, So the user can switch the box back on quickly if they change their mind.

I believe this would be very easy to program, and yet would give the quick boot up time of Eco Mode Low whilst retaining at least a 3rd of the energy savings of Eco Mode High (whilst people are sleeping overnight for example).

Comments

  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 6 November 2014, 2:47PM
    I'm surprised so few people have +1'd this idea - or added any replies or comments in support? Please support the idea if you like it!

    In a nutshell the idea is that the box is normally in the fast start up mode. However, overnight (or whatever hours the user chooses) the box automatically goes into low energy standby mode.

    People get fast startup whilst still saving as much energy as possible.

    If the box is used for 6 hours a day, then for the remaining 18 hours perhaps 9 hours would be spent in energy saving mode, saving 50% of the energy that would otherwise be lost by choosing fast startup. By my calculations that would save up to £10 worth of electricity per year and given the many thousands of Youview boxes it would reduce impact on our environment and energy reserves. It may even help the box provide more years of reliable service.

    This is not an alternative to suggestions that the eco modes are improved, even with improved eco modes, this idea would help save even more energy and money. It should also be very easy and quick to implement.

    So come on, if you think this is a good idea please +1 and add positive replies or comments. If you think its not such a good idea, then please reply and explain why?

    A bright sparks engineer doing my install today said he hoped this idea would be taken forward.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 9:29AM
    Hi Adrian - I'm surprised that there have been absolutely no replies to this topic and have been meaning to add one when I had a little time so thought I should get on with it :)

    Something along the lines of your suggestion was also mentioned during the trials process as a means of mitigating the poor eco-modes and start-up times issue. There was only limited support for the hybrid power mode idea at that time, not because it is not a good idea, but more because some people saw it as unnecessary complexity (in terms of managing/setting the timings) or a distraction when people generally believed that there should be plenty of scope for YouView to improve the start-up speed and the power consumption of the low eco-mode or add an intermediary eco-mode to give further flexibility.

    You've already seen my assessment of how they could target improvements that might meet customer expectation for start-up times and eco performance but if they really cannot reach such a point then I agree they should then/also look at some hybrid mode as you suggest in this topic :)
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 6 October 2012, 7:56PM
    Thanks - I see this, however, as

    1) A quick fix that could be employed whilst eco modes are investigated and designed.

    2) A necessary option in addition to improved eco modes unless the eco modes can, say reduce power consumption to less than 8 watts whilst at the same time reducing start up time to less than 45 seconds. If that is not possible a hybrid option would be the only way for the product the product to achieve both aims. Users shoud not have to choose between energy saving and reasonably fast startup. The hybrid option would give them both if employed alongside further eco improvements.

    Given that only 20 seconds has been shaved off the startup time so far, and surely that must be from the easy to fix "low hanging fruit" any futher savings are likely to be smaller in scale. That being the case, it may not be possible to achieve sufficient energy savings without a hybrid option.

    I currently have a Freesat HD box that takes 40 seconds to boot up - and even that we find frustrating at times. THe 2 minute mode is a joke.

    A hybid mode should be easy to implement and easy to understand and use if designed correctly.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 9:29AM
    You won't hear me disagreeing with the above :)

    Generally I'm in favour of choice and options (whilst still keeping it easy for the end user/not confusing people if they do not want to see/know about the choices or advanced options) so would welcome effort directly on improving the eco-modes but also specifically on a hybrid mode unless the eco-modes can be quickly improved to meet user expectations and thus make a hybrid mode of limited value.

    I'll be interested to see what progress, if any, YouView make on the eco-modes/start-up times in the upcoming update which may well confirm they are unlikely to be able to improve them sufficiently in a reasonable time frame as they stand without adding a medium eco-mode and/or hybrid mode and then what they thus deliver to progress it further in a January/February update.
  • petkolpetkol Member Posts: 213
    edited 14 April 2017, 5:24PM
    Adrian, your idea is a good one, and could provide Youview with a way to get to an accepatble compromise between power saving and startup times. I also agree with your assertion that the 20 second saving made by harvesting the 'low hanging fruit' does not give confidence for future improvements to the startup time.

    I have been involved in previous discussions about the eco modes, and I still believe that Youview should be working hard to provide a reasonable startup time (in my view less than 30 seconds) from the EU required under 1W standby mode. I have also noted that my laptop can wake up from an under 1W sleep mode to being usable in less than 10 seconds.

    In some ways, it can be argued that the startup time is not the most important issue, because once the box is on, most people keep it on for as long as they want to use it. e.g. until they do something else, go out, or retire for the night.

    However the more I think about this, the less i understand how Youview allowed this situation to happen. In my opinion, it demonstartes a serious flaw in the design process. Yes the under 1W standby mode requirement was satisfied, but with seeming disregard for the time to wake from this mode.

    Keith, Like you I will be interested to see what progress has been made in the October update, but not just with the eco-mode/startup issue. Most of the issues that are discussed in the forum have been known about for a long time. Given that it is already over 3 months since the start of the trial, this update will show us Youview's capability to implement changes. In my terms capability is defined / limited by desire, ability, experience and resources.

    We will see if Youview's capability to get things right matches the ambitions expressed by their senior management in their dealings with the press, and the requirements of their ISP partners who are pinning their hopes on Youview as part of their IPTV strategies.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 9:29AM
    Hi petkol :)

    I've mentioned elsewhere some of the things it looks likely they will deliver in the update later this month so it will be interesting to see what we actually get, which bugs are addressed and, in broad terms, how many of the improvements and feature requests captured in the list here (I like a good list after all ;-) ) see some progress or, failing that, change status on the forum in due course as they become planned for the following update in January/February.
  • DADA Member Posts: 142
    edited 3 May 2014, 7:08PM
    I'd like to bring this idea to attention again now the YouView app has been launched.

    Simply put there needs to be an option to set a schedule for high eco mode so that during that time if the box enters standby it will go in to high eco mode. Outside of the scheduled window it will enter low eco mode.

    For example, overnight very few people need the box polling the remote record servers every 15 mins and so the box could be set to enter high eco mode.

    Similarly, during the day the box could be set to low eco mode for faster startup times.

    Settings for each day of the week would be ideal.
  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 3 May 2014, 7:08PM
    Could not the box do a remote record check when it does its overnight housekeeping whatever the eco mode?
  • DADA Member Posts: 142
    edited 3 May 2014, 7:08PM
    gomez said:

    Could not the box do a remote record check when it does its overnight housekeeping whatever the eco mode?

    Surely if it can wake for housekeeping from high eco mode it can wake every 30 mins for a quick remote record check?
  • gomezgomez Member Posts: 2,073 ✭✭
    edited 7 December 2012, 8:36PM
    gomez said:

    Could not the box do a remote record check when it does its overnight housekeeping whatever the eco mode?

    At that rate of checking it may as well be in low eco mode for all the difference in energy saving it makes.
  • DADA Member Posts: 142
    edited 3 May 2014, 7:08PM
    gomez said:

    Could not the box do a remote record check when it does its overnight housekeeping whatever the eco mode?

    True. I just wish the box would spin the hard drive down in low eco mode once in a while.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 10 May 2013, 3:24PM
    Can someone comment on this for Youvew - progress on further improving boot times since October seems to have stalled. In that case, surely ideas such as this hybrid power mode and / or additional power modes surely need to be seriously reviewed by Youview? Surely this hybrid power mode would be easy to program and implement?
  • bramblebramble Member Posts: 118
    edited 11 July 2017, 3:57PM
    I agree with this proposal and I hope youview will consider it seriously.
  • ajpriceajprice Member Posts: 6
    edited 12 May 2013, 5:52PM
    Agreed and liked.
  • PiersPiers Member Posts: 561 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 23 February 2017, 1:13PM
    You're right that we haven't made as much progress with reducing boot time as we would have liked to, but a large amount of it is outside our control. I'm not trying to pass the buck to Humax or Huawei as there are still things we can do and will do but shipping new features has been the priority for us all.

    As for a hybrid eco mode, it was planned but sadly didn't make it into the launch software and remains on the backlog (called "Eco Mode Window" by the way).

    It is a good idea and +1s here can only help to move it up the queue but I can't make any promises about when it will land.
  • Adrian Wood1Adrian Wood1 Member Posts: 235
    edited 14 May 2013, 10:35AM
    Just a further thought - it would be best if the user could choose two or even three "Eco Mode WIndows". That' is because many people will watch tv in the morning, be away from home for up to 10 hours, watch tv in evening and then go to bed.

    So there are for many people at least two windows when energy could be saved by automaticallly putting the box into Eco Mode High.
  • stormystormy Member Posts: 1,026 ✭✭
    edited 3 March 2017, 5:12PM
    This is a very good idea. Sadly again not yet implemented.
  • Euan Hamilton-RiggEuan Hamilton-Rigg Member Posts: 1
    edited 3 March 2017, 5:12PM
    Excellent idea! I just got a YV box and this makes a lot of sense to me.
  • stormystormy Member Posts: 1,026 ✭✭
    edited 1 December 2016, 8:24AM

    Excellent idea! I just got a YV box and this makes a lot of sense to me.

    It makes a lot of sense to most people, ive learned to live with High Eco at the moment because there doesn't look like much movement on this from Youview. :(
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 4 March 2017, 9:29AM
    As an update to this rather old topic - the software update of 24/11/2015 has replaced the eco mode setting with a standby mode setting. This new setting has 3 states: smart standby, energy saver, always ready. The latter two would appear to be equivalent to the old high and low eco modes. The new smart mode effectively runs as the low eco/always ready mode in the day but overnight (1am to 5am by default) will switch to the lower energy saving mode and hence give a hybrid mode that reduces overall energy usage without particular impact on typical usage patterns.
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