John Webb 18 minutes ago As can be deduced from the many threads and comments on the Iplayer issue it has been around from when the boxes were first launched over a year ago. It has been pointed out that it is unique to Youview.
No, it isn't actually. This happens on many boxes. Which the BBC and Redbee have taken responsibility for.
The BBC is responsible for the iPlayers functionality across all the different platforms. And no other. And YouView isn't actually the only platform the application has problems on. Though the PC version is perfect.
I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
Hi guys, we are currently looking into reports from viewers of issues with the iPlayer buffering. As soon as more information is available on this we will update.
Hi there just got a youview player and BBCI player is continually buffering. It works ok on pc, Samsung TV and Humax Freesat box. I've tried plugging the YOUVIEW into earthnet cable as i use on the samsung and freesat and it still buffers, so it must be a software issue in the Freeview box
Watched Dragons' Den last night, and it froze three times on iPlayer. Could watch it fine on my laptop however. Just to re-iterate, I never had a problem at all with BBC iPlayer when I used the BT Vision box, these problems have only surfaced since I 'upgraded' to a YouView box. None of the other on-demand players are affected - my daughter watches hours of HollyOaks using 4oD on the YouView box with no issue...
Upgraded from Vision Box to BT YouView in July and have this buffering problem ever since.
Still have the Vision Box setup and connected via PLA to the BT Hub 3/Infinity modem. No buffering on Vision but buffering on YouView.
It may well be that BBC is responsible for all platform versions of their player but I would think YouView have a responsibility to quality check app/software they install on to their product!
All I care about is how frustrating it is as a user - and of course I am going to blame the hardware rather than the software if I know the software works on other platforms. Bad service via BT YouView, good service via BT Vision, yet YouView was billed as an upgrade!
All I care about is how frustrating it is as a user - and of course I am going to blame the hardware rather than the software if I know the software works on other platforms.
The iplayer's not the same software on every platform. Piers says above that the buffering software is "unique to BBC iPlayer on YouView" and is suspected of being the source of this problem.
So although I agree with you that YouView also has responsibility, given that the fix has to come from the BBC iplayer team you might want to submit a complaint there also. http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk...
All I care about is how frustrating it is as a user - and of course I am going to blame the hardware rather than the software if I know the software works on other platforms.
The iplayer's not the same software on every platform. Piers says above that the buffering software is "unique to BBC iPlayer on YouView" and is suspected of being the source of this problem.
So although I agree with you that YouView also has responsibility, given that the fix has to come from the BBC iplayer team you might want to submit a complaint there also. http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk...But Visionman says it happens on other platforms, too.
Not to worry about who to believe though; just fixing the YouView version might throw some light on what is wrong with the other versions, if V is sound here.
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
I don't see what believing's got to do with it. Piers presumably knows what he's talking about when he says the buffering code is unique to YouView and is suspected of being the cause of the problem.
A fix for the YouView version is what's being asked for in this thread - regardless of whether or not it throws light on possible problems in other versions. Reporting the problem to the team responsible for fixing it seems the best way of adding to the pressure to get it sorted out.
I don't see what believing's got to do with it. Piers presumably knows what he's talking about when he says the buffering code is unique to YouView and is suspected of being the cause of the problem.
A fix for the YouView version is what's being asked for in this thread - regardless of whether or not it throws light on possible problems in other versions. Reporting the problem to the team responsible for fixing it seems the best way of adding to the pressure to get it sorted out.
Agreed - indeed, that's what I thought I'd said.
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
"Who to believe" phraseology implies someone's right and someone's wrong, which doesn't seem to be the case with this iplayer bug. Never mind, as long as it gets brought to the attention of the iplayer team, that's what matters.
A Decipher blog piece from last April, clearly intended as usual to be provocative, has a go at the iplayer team for empire building. It's a bit extreme but some interesting points. Maybe iplayer need to get their mind back on their work.
The decision to give the iPlayer brand such dominance in TV VOD robs the broadcast channels of chance to provide coherence around their offering at a time when they are already under assault, not just from OTT players but from platform brands like VirginTivo, Sky and surprisingly, Youview. Previously, a consumer had a simple relationship with a broadcaster, with the centre of gravity being the channel brand. On platforms like Virgin Tivo and Sky this clarity has now gone as the platforms flex their brand muscles. But the BBC have the greatest problem, because FutureMedia control platform strategy. They are incentivised to look after their own brand, not maximise the strength of the channel brand. The same applies to YouView, which should have been a broadcast centric platform, designed to maximise the interests of the channels. Unfortunately, it was colonised early by iPlayer people and went ‘platform-centric’. It is possible to spend an evening watching BBC3 content, and come away with the YouView and iPlayer logos lodged in your brain.
This is happening at a time when we are finally seeing convergence between broadcast and on-demand. This convergence is best observed on the backwards EPGs on Virgin Tivo and YouView. It is now possible to jump from a BBC3 programme on the broadcast EPG, directly into its catch up version. However, because the development decisions were made by the iPlayer team without, it would appear, any discussion with the channel brands, the journey immediately becomes an iPlayer branded journey, not a BBC3 one. On both platforms, it is a dog’s breakfast of a consumer experience. These decisions were previously agreed to by senior BBC management and Trust figures, who didn’t have the understanding to push back or question the iPlayer teams.
"Who to believe" phraseology implies someone's right and someone's wrong, which doesn't seem to be the case with this iplayer bug. Never mind, as long as it gets brought to the attention of the iplayer team, that's what matters.
A Decipher blog piece from last April, clearly intended as usual to be provocative, has a go at the iplayer team for empire building. It's a bit extreme but some interesting points. Maybe iplayer need to get their mind back on their work.
The decision to give the iPlayer brand such dominance in TV VOD robs the broadcast channels of chance to provide coherence around their offering at a time when they are already under assault, not just from OTT players but from platform brands like VirginTivo, Sky and surprisingly, Youview. Previously, a consumer had a simple relationship with a broadcaster, with the centre of gravity being the channel brand. On platforms like Virgin Tivo and Sky this clarity has now gone as the platforms flex their brand muscles. But the BBC have the greatest problem, because FutureMedia control platform strategy. They are incentivised to look after their own brand, not maximise the strength of the channel brand. The same applies to YouView, which should have been a broadcast centric platform, designed to maximise the interests of the channels. Unfortunately, it was colonised early by iPlayer people and went ‘platform-centric’. It is possible to spend an evening watching BBC3 content, and come away with the YouView and iPlayer logos lodged in your brain.
This is happening at a time when we are finally seeing convergence between broadcast and on-demand. This convergence is best observed on the backwards EPGs on Virgin Tivo and YouView. It is now possible to jump from a BBC3 programme on the broadcast EPG, directly into its catch up version. However, because the development decisions were made by the iPlayer team without, it would appear, any discussion with the channel brands, the journey immediately becomes an iPlayer branded journey, not a BBC3 one. On both platforms, it is a dog’s breakfast of a consumer experience. These decisions were previously agreed to by senior BBC management and Trust figures, who didn’t have the understanding to push back or question the iPlayer teams.
The last thing in the world we need is an iPlayer for each individual BBC channel.
And I could say that YouView acts to 'support the brand' of each BBC channel, not to erode it, by allowing you to go direct from the channel in the backwards EPG to the on demand version of it, without having to negotiate the BBC iPlayer as such, at all.
But that would be to accept his point that channel branding matters, which I don't accept for one minute. I look at the Radio Times, I see a programme I want to watch, I select the channel it's on, I watch it. I don't care if it's BBC 1 or BBC 2, or not even a BBC channel at all.
Which is exactly what the de-ghettoisation of programmes from this or that Player, via YouView's backward EPG, speaks to.
Obviously, at the programme planning level of each channel, they strive to give the channel some unifying theme, and so they must. But it is a mistake that Decipher makes to assume this matters a twopenny piece to the viewer.
And even if there are people who just put the TV on, and leave it running on one channel by habit, well, none of those are going to be on demand consumers, something that takes about the same amount of effort as choosing programmes from a listings magazine.
Decipher also does slightly dishonest things; in a piece on Smart TVs he exaggerates a minor shift from 83% one year to 86% the next by pitching the origin of his (scale free) graph around 80%, letting that go unmentioned. That's a big nono on both counts.
He is, I fear, just too close to the industry to get any sensible perspective; and he is so keen to grind the axe he has to grind that he doesn't care where the sparks fly.
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
"Who to believe" phraseology implies someone's right and someone's wrong, which doesn't seem to be the case with this iplayer bug. Never mind, as long as it gets brought to the attention of the iplayer team, that's what matters.
A Decipher blog piece from last April, clearly intended as usual to be provocative, has a go at the iplayer team for empire building. It's a bit extreme but some interesting points. Maybe iplayer need to get their mind back on their work.
The decision to give the iPlayer brand such dominance in TV VOD robs the broadcast channels of chance to provide coherence around their offering at a time when they are already under assault, not just from OTT players but from platform brands like VirginTivo, Sky and surprisingly, Youview. Previously, a consumer had a simple relationship with a broadcaster, with the centre of gravity being the channel brand. On platforms like Virgin Tivo and Sky this clarity has now gone as the platforms flex their brand muscles. But the BBC have the greatest problem, because FutureMedia control platform strategy. They are incentivised to look after their own brand, not maximise the strength of the channel brand. The same applies to YouView, which should have been a broadcast centric platform, designed to maximise the interests of the channels. Unfortunately, it was colonised early by iPlayer people and went ‘platform-centric’. It is possible to spend an evening watching BBC3 content, and come away with the YouView and iPlayer logos lodged in your brain.
This is happening at a time when we are finally seeing convergence between broadcast and on-demand. This convergence is best observed on the backwards EPGs on Virgin Tivo and YouView. It is now possible to jump from a BBC3 programme on the broadcast EPG, directly into its catch up version. However, because the development decisions were made by the iPlayer team without, it would appear, any discussion with the channel brands, the journey immediately becomes an iPlayer branded journey, not a BBC3 one. On both platforms, it is a dog’s breakfast of a consumer experience. These decisions were previously agreed to by senior BBC management and Trust figures, who didn’t have the understanding to push back or question the iPlayer teams.
http://decipherconsultancy.wordpress....On the 'who to believe', as it seems to matter to you, although I've already said it doesn't matter to me, Piers has said the excessive buffering on the iPlayer is specific to the YouView version, and Visionman has said no, other versions are affected also.
So someone is right, and someone is wrong, and that's unavoidable. But nobody has to get their panties in a wad over it.
Maybe Piers means that the YouView version is likely to have a specific sort of bug that no other iPlayer could have; and maybe the other iPlayers that Visionman mentions have a completely different bug or bugs giving the same symptoms.
Now Piers knows YouView inside out, but may not be overly familiar with other iPlayers. And Visionman is not often wrong, and can perhaps cite the Redbee source for his assertion that other iPlayers have the same symptom.
But we both go back to the point that the YouView box version wants fixing, irregardless of the others, and there we agree.
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
On the 'who to believe', as it seems to matter to you, although I've already said it doesn't matter to me, Piers has said the excessive buffering on the iPlayer is specific to the YouView version, and Visionman has said no, other versions are affected also.
Piers said the YouView iplayer software is unique to YouView, not the buffering problem. See Piers' post above.
But nobody has to get their panties in a wad over it.
"Who to believe" phraseology implies someone's right and someone's wrong, which doesn't seem to be the case with this iplayer bug. Never mind, as long as it gets brought to the attention of the iplayer team, that's what matters.
A Decipher blog piece from last April, clearly intended as usual to be provocative, has a go at the iplayer team for empire building. It's a bit extreme but some interesting points. Maybe iplayer need to get their mind back on their work.
The decision to give the iPlayer brand such dominance in TV VOD robs the broadcast channels of chance to provide coherence around their offering at a time when they are already under assault, not just from OTT players but from platform brands like VirginTivo, Sky and surprisingly, Youview. Previously, a consumer had a simple relationship with a broadcaster, with the centre of gravity being the channel brand. On platforms like Virgin Tivo and Sky this clarity has now gone as the platforms flex their brand muscles. But the BBC have the greatest problem, because FutureMedia control platform strategy. They are incentivised to look after their own brand, not maximise the strength of the channel brand. The same applies to YouView, which should have been a broadcast centric platform, designed to maximise the interests of the channels. Unfortunately, it was colonised early by iPlayer people and went ‘platform-centric’. It is possible to spend an evening watching BBC3 content, and come away with the YouView and iPlayer logos lodged in your brain.
This is happening at a time when we are finally seeing convergence between broadcast and on-demand. This convergence is best observed on the backwards EPGs on Virgin Tivo and YouView. It is now possible to jump from a BBC3 programme on the broadcast EPG, directly into its catch up version. However, because the development decisions were made by the iPlayer team without, it would appear, any discussion with the channel brands, the journey immediately becomes an iPlayer branded journey, not a BBC3 one. On both platforms, it is a dog’s breakfast of a consumer experience. These decisions were previously agreed to by senior BBC management and Trust figures, who didn’t have the understanding to push back or question the iPlayer teams.
http://decipherconsultancy.wordpress....Roy, that's correct - I'm not familiar with the details of iPlayer implementations on other platforms. However I did not say that iPlayer buffering problems only occurs on YouView. I don't have access to that kind of information from the BBC or the public.
What I did say was:
1) People who've reported a problem on YouView don't seem to have problems with PC or other devices (that's just a summary of the reports, and not my assertion. It could just be far too small a sample size)
2) The buffering *software* (not the problem being observed) in iPlayer for YouView is unique to YouView. And that's just because the YouView version of iPlayer isn't used on other platforms.
The current status is still that BBC are still investigating, and YouView are assisting.
Oops.... How could I make such a mistake? Well, Piers, you said:-
It's almost impossible to say with certainty where the problem lies but our first area of suspicion is the BBC iPlayer buffering software as it's unique to BBC iPlayer on YouView.
I hope you would at least allow that it was possible to make an ambiguous reading of that sentence, and misapply the second "it's" to 'problem' rather than 'software'.
As John Webb did, and it was that misunderstood interpretation which Visionman replied to.
Happy to see the clarification though, and glad that both you, Piers, and Visionman were right in your respective assertions.
Panties unwadded, then. There's a relief... :-)
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
On the 'who to believe', as it seems to matter to you, although I've already said it doesn't matter to me, Piers has said the excessive buffering on the iPlayer is specific to the YouView version, and Visionman has said no, other versions are affected also.
Piers said the YouView iplayer software is unique to YouView, not the buffering problem. See Piers' post above.
But nobody has to get their panties in a wad over it.
Errr...quite.Besides right and wrong (and see below for the explication of the apparent Piers/Visionman dichotomy) there is what physicist Wolfgang Pauli famously used to describe as 'not even wrong', meaning something that is so far off beam, or nebulous, that even to argue over it would be a waste of time.
The only point I could make that Decipher and I could have a hope of debating is the one about YouView drilling through the BBC iPlayer branding, and thus preserving the channel branding. But since I don't buy his points about channel branding in the first place, I'd just be contradicting him on a small point in a way that seemed to confirm his assertions on the larger point. And I don't want to do that.
Also, there are really only two reasons for advancing arguments on the Internet; to convince the original poster, or to convince the watching audience.
(There's a third reason, self-aggrandisement, but I strive to avoid that, if not always successfully).
But of the two good reasons, I'm not sure i could do either, or indeed have much interest in trying; I shall put Decipher down as 'not even wrong' therefore.
He is in one building, I in another; so we would never agree, as we would be arguing from different premises.
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
Actually, John Webb was responding to Piers' earlier post, not the one which you misread.
I'm pleased to hear that your underwear now feels more comfortable. :-)
Piers' posting that I quoted was a month ago, and John's was 12 days ago, if GS time stamping can be relied upon.. So it's entirely possible that John had misread Piers' earlier posting in the way that I did., and that was the source of his assertion.
Or I could be mistaken again, and John got that information from somewhere else entirely.
But I don't think you can know that John was responding to a posting by Piers earlier than the one I quoted, can you? As that one does seem to be the only one where there's even the possibility of the misinterpretation that the problem is unique to YouView?
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
I'm getting the same problem. iPlayer on Youview is basically unusable because of this.
I've had a BT engineer out to check the line today and its a-okay. EE have switched me from Fast Path to Interleaved Path and this has made no difference to this issue.
Buffering usual occurs within five minutes of the start of the programme.Rarely, it corrects itself after a few seconds of the spinning arrow. Usually it displays the error message and you have to basically restart iPlayer and the stream again from the beginning.
It happens at all times of day. I watch on HD usually.
I've been having the same problem, so upgraded to fibre yesterday, now receiving 38+MBPS but still buffering.
IPad and MacBook will play the same episodes without a glitch but YouView buffers, freezes and eventually puts up a 'come back later' message. My WiFi is stronger than ever, so the fault, as one poster has already stated is in the I player/ Huewei connection and should have been rectified before YouView was rolled out.
Sending out half a dozen engineers and new YouView boxes will only rack up the cost to subscribers without solving the problem.
Hi there, we are in the process of investigating the iPlayer buffering issue with the BBC to identify why users are experiencing this. As Piers mentions it does not affect the majority, but for those it does it is understandably frustrating (given the good connection speeds some of you are getting).
We continue to monitor the feedback here in the meantime and as soon as more information is available I will be sure to update you all.
Comments
The BBC is responsible for the iPlayers functionality across all the different platforms. And no other. And YouView isn't actually the only platform the application has problems on. Though the PC version is perfect.
Thanks,
Phil
so looking forward to the update
douglas
http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk...
http://support.youview.com/supportand...
Complaints in a forum easily get ignored overlooked.
Upgraded from Vision Box to BT YouView in July and have this buffering problem ever since.
Still have the Vision Box setup and connected via PLA to the BT Hub 3/Infinity modem. No buffering on Vision but buffering on YouView.
It may well be that BBC is responsible for all platform versions of their player but I would think YouView have a responsibility to quality check app/software they install on to their product!
All I care about is how frustrating it is as a user - and of course I am going to blame the hardware rather than the software if I know the software works on other platforms. Bad service via BT YouView, good service via BT Vision, yet YouView was billed as an upgrade!
So although I agree with you that YouView also has responsibility, given that the fix has to come from the BBC iplayer team you might want to submit a complaint there also. http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk...
So although I agree with you that YouView also has responsibility, given that the fix has to come from the BBC iplayer team you might want to submit a complaint there also. http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk...But Visionman says it happens on other platforms, too.
Not to worry about who to believe though; just fixing the YouView version might throw some light on what is wrong with the other versions, if V is sound here.
I don't see what believing's got to do with it. Piers presumably knows what he's talking about when he says the buffering code is unique to YouView and is suspected of being the cause of the problem.
A fix for the YouView version is what's being asked for in this thread - regardless of whether or not it throws light on possible problems in other versions. Reporting the problem to the team responsible for fixing it seems the best way of adding to the pressure to get it sorted out.
A Decipher blog piece from last April, clearly intended as usual to be provocative, has a go at the iplayer team for empire building. It's a bit extreme but some interesting points. Maybe iplayer need to get their mind back on their work. http://decipherconsultancy.wordpress....
The last thing in the world we need is an iPlayer for each individual BBC channel.
And I could say that YouView acts to 'support the brand' of each BBC channel, not to erode it, by allowing you to go direct from the channel in the backwards EPG to the on demand version of it, without having to negotiate the BBC iPlayer as such, at all.
But that would be to accept his point that channel branding matters, which I don't accept for one minute. I look at the Radio Times, I see a programme I want to watch, I select the channel it's on, I watch it. I don't care if it's BBC 1 or BBC 2, or not even a BBC channel at all.
Which is exactly what the de-ghettoisation of programmes from this or that Player, via YouView's backward EPG, speaks to.
Obviously, at the programme planning level of each channel, they strive to give the channel some unifying theme, and so they must. But it is a mistake that Decipher makes to assume this matters a twopenny piece to the viewer.
And even if there are people who just put the TV on, and leave it running on one channel by habit, well, none of those are going to be on demand consumers, something that takes about the same amount of effort as choosing programmes from a listings magazine.
Decipher also does slightly dishonest things; in a piece on Smart TVs he exaggerates a minor shift from 83% one year to 86% the next by pitching the origin of his (scale free) graph around 80%, letting that go unmentioned. That's a big nono on both counts.
He is, I fear, just too close to the industry to get any sensible perspective; and he is so keen to grind the axe he has to grind that he doesn't care where the sparks fly.
So someone is right, and someone is wrong, and that's unavoidable. But nobody has to get their panties in a wad over it.
Maybe Piers means that the YouView version is likely to have a specific sort of bug that no other iPlayer could have; and maybe the other iPlayers that Visionman mentions have a completely different bug or bugs giving the same symptoms.
Now Piers knows YouView inside out, but may not be overly familiar with other iPlayers. And Visionman is not often wrong, and can perhaps cite the Redbee source for his assertion that other iPlayers have the same symptom.
But we both go back to the point that the YouView box version wants fixing, irregardless of the others, and there we agree.
What I did say was:
1) People who've reported a problem on YouView don't seem to have problems with PC or other devices (that's just a summary of the reports, and not my assertion. It could just be far too small a sample size)
2) The buffering *software* (not the problem being observed) in iPlayer for YouView is unique to YouView. And that's just because the YouView version of iPlayer isn't used on other platforms.
The current status is still that BBC are still investigating, and YouView are assisting.
Oops.... How could I make such a mistake? Well, Piers, you said:-
It's almost impossible to say with certainty where the problem lies but our first area of suspicion is the BBC iPlayer buffering software as it's unique to BBC iPlayer on YouView.
I hope you would at least allow that it was possible to make an ambiguous reading of that sentence, and misapply the second "it's" to 'problem' rather than 'software'.
As John Webb did, and it was that misunderstood interpretation which Visionman replied to.
Happy to see the clarification though, and glad that both you, Piers, and Visionman were right in your respective assertions.
Panties unwadded, then. There's a relief... :-)
The only point I could make that Decipher and I could have a hope of debating is the one about YouView drilling through the BBC iPlayer branding, and thus preserving the channel branding. But since I don't buy his points about channel branding in the first place, I'd just be contradicting him on a small point in a way that seemed to confirm his assertions on the larger point. And I don't want to do that.
Also, there are really only two reasons for advancing arguments on the Internet; to convince the original poster, or to convince the watching audience.
(There's a third reason, self-aggrandisement, but I strive to avoid that, if not always successfully).
But of the two good reasons, I'm not sure i could do either, or indeed have much interest in trying; I shall put Decipher down as 'not even wrong' therefore.
He is in one building, I in another; so we would never agree, as we would be arguing from different premises.
I'm pleased to hear that your underwear now feels more comfortable. :-)
It's raining here. :-(
Or I could be mistaken again, and John got that information from somewhere else entirely.
But I don't think you can know that John was responding to a posting by Piers earlier than the one I quoted, can you? As that one does seem to be the only one where there's even the possibility of the misinterpretation that the problem is unique to YouView?
http://community.youview.com/youview/...
John: Does that help?
http://community.youview.com/youview/...
John: Does that help?And as no-one contradicted John a month ago, he repeated the assertion 12 days ago, in the posting that Visionman did contradict.
All is now clear,sam. Thank you.
http://community.youview.com/youview/...
John: Does that help?My pleasure.
I've had a BT engineer out to check the line today and its a-okay. EE have switched me from Fast Path to Interleaved Path and this has made no difference to this issue.
Buffering usual occurs within five minutes of the start of the programme.Rarely, it corrects itself after a few seconds of the spinning arrow. Usually it displays the error message and you have to basically restart iPlayer and the stream again from the beginning.
It happens at all times of day. I watch on HD usually.
IPad and MacBook will play the same episodes without a glitch but YouView buffers, freezes and eventually puts up a 'come back later' message. My WiFi is stronger than ever, so the fault, as one poster has already stated is in the I player/ Huewei connection and should have been rectified before YouView was rolled out.
Sending out half a dozen engineers and new YouView boxes will only rack up the cost to subscribers without solving the problem.
But seriously this is rubbish.
We continue to monitor the feedback here in the meantime and as soon as more information is available I will be sure to update you all.
Phil