Scheduled recording only recording 3 mins then stops.

1235715

Comments

  • StevieboyStevieboy Posts: 48Member
    edited 29 January 2017, 8:41PM
    and BOOM! all of my scheduled recordings failed yesterday after 3 days of them working fine again!!
  • mintominto Posts: 13Member
    edited 30 November 2014, 11:59AM
    My box has been working for about 10 days. So i have disconnected it from the internet and I switch it off when I can, to make sure it doesn't update itself and stop working. When the complaints stop, I might reconnect.i
  • Martin10Martin10 Posts: 18Member
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Out of interest - has anyone noted what channel you left the youview box on whilst its set to record another channel

    eg
    The youview box was on challenge tv and set to record a programme on BBC 1 which failed


    The reason why I am asking this is because if my youview box is on any channel that is on the same multiplex as Challenge tv then the epg doesnt update on any other multiplex so the box doesnt know the programme has started and therefore doesnt record untill you change channels.


    I am in contact with the support team and will be providing them a video of the above problem tonight where the epg doesnt update if left on this multiplex

    As an aditional note - im in the london region but can also pick up kent so it would only probably effect people in this region
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:39AM
    Martin10 said:

    Out of interest - has anyone noted what channel you left the youview box on whilst its set to record another channel

    eg
    The youview box was on challenge tv and set to record a programme on BBC 1 which failed


    The reason why I am asking this is because if my youview box is on any channel that is on the same multiplex as Challenge tv then the epg doesnt update on any other multiplex so the box doesnt know the programme has started and therefore doesnt record untill you change channels.


    I am in contact with the support team and will be providing them a video of the above problem tonight where the epg doesnt update if left on this multiplex

    As an aditional note - im in the london region but can also pick up kent so it would only probably effect people in this region

    The AR information that tells the box when a programme has started needs to be sent out over every channel, so you get it no matter what channel you are tuned to.

    If this is not happening on Challenge, or on the whole MUX, then AR will fail for any programmes not on that channel.

    I suppose the second tuner might provide a fallback in these circumstances, but it depends what that is tuned to also.

    I take it you have done a soft reset, and/or perhaps a Maintenance Mode one as well, to ensure this is not just a quirk of corrupted software on your box?
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • Martin10Martin10 Posts: 18Member
    edited 2 December 2014, 3:17PM
    Martin10 said:

    Out of interest - has anyone noted what channel you left the youview box on whilst its set to record another channel

    eg
    The youview box was on challenge tv and set to record a programme on BBC 1 which failed


    The reason why I am asking this is because if my youview box is on any channel that is on the same multiplex as Challenge tv then the epg doesnt update on any other multiplex so the box doesnt know the programme has started and therefore doesnt record untill you change channels.


    I am in contact with the support team and will be providing them a video of the above problem tonight where the epg doesnt update if left on this multiplex

    As an aditional note - im in the london region but can also pick up kent so it would only probably effect people in this region

    I'm working with the support team to find a solution to why the guide is not updating whilst on this multiplex - I will be providing head office videos of all the recording problems I experience as they can't replicate all of them in test conditions
  • SanjSanj Posts: 1,644Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2016, 6:56PM
    al said:

    I think my box may have just succumbed to this fault but it might be slightly different. Recording strictly come dancing (don't judge) and we were watching live as usual. About 30 mins in the screen froze during the highest scoring dance. I tried to start watching the recording instead but I have just 30 minutes of black screen, so I continued to watch live. I stopped that recording and started a new recording.

    At the end of the show, I checked the second recording, just 1 minute of black screen. Then I noticed there was no buffer being recorded either. I have now performed an 8 second reset which brought back the buffer and also now the first recording plays all the way up until the freeze. The second recording was a failure.

    Hi al - Sorry to hear you're having that issue. It does seem different to what is being reported by others but I imagine just as frustrating. Has this happened on any other programmes since the reboot?

    Also - Can you let me know the time/date of the recording?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:39AM
    Martin10 said:

    Out of interest - has anyone noted what channel you left the youview box on whilst its set to record another channel

    eg
    The youview box was on challenge tv and set to record a programme on BBC 1 which failed


    The reason why I am asking this is because if my youview box is on any channel that is on the same multiplex as Challenge tv then the epg doesnt update on any other multiplex so the box doesnt know the programme has started and therefore doesnt record untill you change channels.


    I am in contact with the support team and will be providing them a video of the above problem tonight where the epg doesnt update if left on this multiplex

    As an aditional note - im in the london region but can also pick up kent so it would only probably effect people in this region

    I take it you have done a soft reset, and/or perhaps a Maintenance Mode one as well, to ensure this is not just a quirk of corrupted software on your box?
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • ScousePattoScousePatto Posts: 2Member
    edited 4 December 2014, 9:29AM
    Experienced all of these issues on the previous box, had it replaced today, new box, it updated itself (with the faulty code) and it is that same as the previous box, only records two minutes... doesn't play back, skips to the end.. etc... etc..   The new update that everyone is downloading recently is faulty / dodgy code, the boxes when using this code are totally unusable.  This needs sorting as soon as, my other half wants the box refunded and to go with Virgin Media....  it's very frustrating!

    Humax support advised me on the resets, wipes, reboots etc....  this is definitely faulty code.  An update is needed to the code to fix this, it does appear to be anything to do with what programs you record, can we revert to the previous code that worked?  Thanks

     Thanks.
  • John FrancisJohn Francis Posts: 23Member
    edited 4 December 2014, 9:29AM

    Experienced all of these issues on the previous box, had it replaced today, new box, it updated itself (with the faulty code) and it is that same as the previous box, only records two minutes... doesn't play back, skips to the end.. etc... etc..   The new update that everyone is downloading recently is faulty / dodgy code, the boxes when using this code are totally unusable.  This needs sorting as soon as, my other half wants the box refunded and to go with Virgin Media....  it's very frustrating!

    Humax support advised me on the resets, wipes, reboots etc....  this is definitely faulty code.  An update is needed to the code to fix this, it does appear to be anything to do with what programs you record, can we revert to the previous code that worked?  Thanks

     Thanks.

    Absolutely confirms my point of view. SORT OUT THIS **** CODE!
  • Philip TrottPhilip Trott Posts: 1,040Administrator admin
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Hi all,

    The ongoing investigation for this issue is absolutely top priority for us and I will update when we have more information. If you are still experiencing this problem please continue to post feedback on the affected programmes and your experience so we can feed this back to our test teams.

    Thanks,

    Phil
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:39AM
    Phil8 said:

    Hi all,

    The ongoing investigation for this issue is absolutely top priority for us and I will update when we have more information. If you are still experiencing this problem please continue to post feedback on the affected programmes and your experience so we can feed this back to our test teams.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Hi Phil

    Has YouView been able to reproduce the problem?

    Have YouView examined the hard disc of a YouView box containing recordings that exhibit the problem?

    Have you considered supplying a selective rollback to the previous software version on a USB stick to those affected customers who would request this?
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • GillArmstrong-AbbottGillArmstrong-Abbott Posts: 3Member
    edited 8 December 2014, 11:26PM
    Phil8 said:

    Hi all,

    The ongoing investigation for this issue is absolutely top priority for us and I will update when we have more information. If you are still experiencing this problem please continue to post feedback on the affected programmes and your experience so we can feed this back to our test teams.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Any updates please????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • tullyhubberttullyhubbert Posts: 10Member
    edited 11 December 2014, 10:50PM
    Phil8 said:

    Hi all,

    The ongoing investigation for this issue is absolutely top priority for us and I will update when we have more information. If you are still experiencing this problem please continue to post feedback on the affected programmes and your experience so we can feed this back to our test teams.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    I've a BT G4 youview box and this fault is regular and a right royal pain in the ........

    Mostly IP CH420 Universal.
  • Philip TrottPhilip Trott Posts: 1,040Administrator admin
    edited 19 December 2016, 8:55PM
    Phil8 said:

    Hi all,

    The ongoing investigation for this issue is absolutely top priority for us and I will update when we have more information. If you are still experiencing this problem please continue to post feedback on the affected programmes and your experience so we can feed this back to our test teams.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Hi Gill/ tully,

    I understand this is certainly a frustrating issue to encounter- we are still looking into this as our priority, some viewers have reported this playback problem has occurred less frequently and for others has not been apparent over the past week.

    If you are still having this problem please let me know the recording(s) affected along with the channel/ time/ date so we can continue to investigate.

    Thanks,

    Phil
  • tullyhubberttullyhubbert Posts: 10Member
    edited 12 December 2014, 5:36PM
    Phil8 said:

    Hi all,

    The ongoing investigation for this issue is absolutely top priority for us and I will update when we have more information. If you are still experiencing this problem please continue to post feedback on the affected programmes and your experience so we can feed this back to our test teams.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Last failure was Wednesday 11th. Law & Order IP Channel Universal 420 @ 13.00 hours, recording from High ECO mode. Its series linked and the following program, same channel back to back recording @ 14.00 recorded ok.

    Problem started around 20th Nov, from then until around the 27th I had short recording failures every single day. Also the box was locking up daily (3 times) with red record light on, this meant I had to power it on/off to reset.

    On the 27th Nov I changed to Low ECO, recordings were fine from then until 10th Dec when I changed to High ECO, then had a short recording failure on the 11th (Details first paragraph) Still in High ECO, todays recordings have been ok.

    Previous to all of this I used to get lots of failed recordings, IP channels mostly and no details other than 'failed' Its frustrating, so much so I intend giving up my BT TV subscription when my year finishes at the end of January.

    Hope the details above are of some help.
  • John WestcottJohn Westcott Posts: 15Member
    edited 26 April 2017, 10:11AM

    Hi some more information to contribute to this issue which may help..........hopefully.


    BT Youview problems.

    Weekend 13-14 December 2014.

    Recording

    The youview box stopped writing data to the disk after the first few minutes of the recording.

    The youview guide and “My View” recordings list both showed the program as recording.

    The facility to stop recording would not stop the recording.

    The delete facility said it could not delete programs which were being recorded.

    The Youview guide showed failed recordings as part recorded, selecting the program for playback showed 2 or 3 minutes recorded.

     

    Catch-up using program schedule

    Did not start the program, it just hung

     

    Iplayer direct

    Played the program but without sound

     

    Programs recorded before 13 December

    On 14 December we attempted to play a program which had been recorded on Friday 12 December.

    This appeared to show a full recorded program but the first attempt to play it stopped after about 2 minutes saying playback completed.  A second attempt to play it worked satisfactorily.

     

    Programs recorded after 14 December

    All appeared to record successfully, (correct recording time reported on Myview and a tick on the record flag on the youview guide) but we have not yet fully watched all of them.

    One of the programs played the first few minutes and stopped even though it was showing a 59 minutes recording.  At a second attempt it played the whole 59 minute recording.

     

    Background

    Most of the programs we record and had problems with are from BBC1 (Southeast region).

    The program recorded on 15 December which only played completely at second attempt was BBC2.

    We do not attempt to record HD transmissions  as we experienced similar problems when recording HD programs some time ago and had assumed that it was HD causing the problem. The problem went away when we stopped recording HD.

    The Youview box is a Humax DTRT1000 variant 80B08500.  It shows Humax A7.76 on the startup screen.  It was originally installed in early May 2014.

    The software was last updated 27/11/2014, Manufacturer software 20.9.0, Component Software 2.8.18, Platform Configuration 1234, ISP Configuration 220.

    Our Infinity broadband connection is through a Hub4. The connection from the hub to the Youview box is a direct wired connection.

    There is 75% free diskspace.

    Attempt to resolve problems todate:

    • Power shutdown of Youview box and home hub.

    • Soft reboot of box by holding down the button on the front for eight seconds.

    • Disconnected, checked and reconnected all of the cables and the aerial cable.

    I disconnected and reconnected the aerial cable during recording. (The screen went blank as I would expect) This did not stop the recording.

    Channel display shows Strength around the 70% level and quality 100%. The transmitter aerial is less than 1 mile from our receiving aerial.

  • tullyhubberttullyhubbert Posts: 10Member
    edited 16 December 2014, 8:30PM
    Another failure IP channel 420 @ 7pm on 15/12/14. Further failure IP channel 420 @ 7pm 16/12/14. Both failures 1 min long, Law & Order episodes, both failures second recording of back to back series links from High ECO mode.
  • Bob FitzsimmonsBob Fitzsimmons Posts: 9Member
    edited 24 December 2014, 2:38PM
    I had multiple failures on Sunday 14th December, either recordings only being done for 1 or 4 minutes, or faulty playbacks which run normally if restarted. I had the same issues after the 31st October update. It seemed to sort itself out after mid November but the faults returned on Sunday.
    Since then all recordings and playbacks have been fine.
    I have purchased a second Panasonic recorder as a backup. If sod's law works the Youview box will now behave!
  • Colino GreenColino Green Posts: 27Member
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    I found this thread as I am suddenly seeing this problem now. May have coincided with a recording I was playing ending without me pressing stop and the having the 'Playback has ended' message on screen for more than half an hour yesterday evening. Now today when playing back a recording or trying to record something playback is stopping after as little as 1 minute or so on the recorded file or in my first test case after about 2 minutes of an attempted recording.

    Can't believe I am going to have to shell out for another PVR, now. It certainly won't be a You view one.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:39AM

    I found this thread as I am suddenly seeing this problem now. May have coincided with a recording I was playing ending without me pressing stop and the having the 'Playback has ended' message on screen for more than half an hour yesterday evening. Now today when playing back a recording or trying to record something playback is stopping after as little as 1 minute or so on the recorded file or in my first test case after about 2 minutes of an attempted recording.

    Can't believe I am going to have to shell out for another PVR, now. It certainly won't be a You view one.

    Hi Colino

    Your PVR is not broken, just its software. As soon as YouView figure out what the hell is causing this for quite a number of its customers, fix it, test it, and release a new update, all will be well for you.

    But your experience is potentially very interesting. Assuming that it's not a coincidence, and that you leaving that message up caused the problem on a YouView box that was OK before, this may give YouView a way to provoke the issue on a test box, and thus help diagnose it.

    It would be illuminating to know, perhaps, if this might be a common factor among those who have had this problem up until now. And those of us who haven't had the issue should take care to knock watched recordings off speedily for the time being, just in case, perhaps even before the actual 'Ended' message.

    Unless it is just a coincidence....

    But YouView still have nearly a week to act on this, so we can be sure of recording all those Christmas specials.
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • Colino GreenColino Green Posts: 27Member
    edited 21 February 2015, 12:37PM

    I found this thread as I am suddenly seeing this problem now. May have coincided with a recording I was playing ending without me pressing stop and the having the 'Playback has ended' message on screen for more than half an hour yesterday evening. Now today when playing back a recording or trying to record something playback is stopping after as little as 1 minute or so on the recorded file or in my first test case after about 2 minutes of an attempted recording.

    Can't believe I am going to have to shell out for another PVR, now. It certainly won't be a You view one.

    Hello Roy

    Yes, it is a bit of a coincidence at least that I accidentally let a recording stop itself on the 'recording has ended' message and then first saw the problems detailed in this thread the following day. Another strange coincidence was that the first time it happened on Thursday morning, I just happened to turn the BT router on a few seconds before. Again, would that have anything to do with it?

    I did a factory reset in the end yesterday (meaning that I lost a recording of Gotham) to see if that helped. I then recorded (but watched live) The Fall and then after it finished checked to see if it had recorded the whole thing. It had and then I let it play for half an hour or so with the TV off. When I eventually checked, the playback of The Fall was still going so hopefully that may have helped.

    I have scheduled a recording of repeated Gotham later but I may just dig out my old 2010 DigitalStream Freeview PVR, update the firmware and use that for now instead. I very nearly went out and bought a Humax HDR 2000 Freeview box as I am a bit sick of the DTR 1010 Youview box, particularly the way you cannot stop it from updating or the fact that there are little options that you can tweak, etc. The worst thing of course is that you never know what a software update has allegedly fixed and you can never find out for definite what an update might have broken. That is one of the reason's why I want to go back to a more 'transparent' Freeview box instead of these locked down Youview boxes which still don't even let you play internet TV channels!
  • Simon BeaverSimon Beaver Posts: 3Member
    edited 24 December 2014, 2:36PM
    Phil8 said:

    Hi all,

    The ongoing investigation for this issue is absolutely top priority for us and I will update when we have more information. If you are still experiencing this problem please continue to post feedback on the affected programmes and your experience so we can feed this back to our test teams.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    I've been commenting in the same issue in the BT Youview forum. I had the 2 minutes recording problem in the 1st week of November, then everything worked fine until 17th December when it all went wrong again. Recording of Film 2014 stopped after 2 minutes but then played back fine, tried to watch Masterchef in 'catch-up' mode (started watching while still recording) and the whole box froze, and the recording of the final episode of The Fall is 2 minutes long but the recording icon is still on - even thought the program is finished.
  • Philip TrottPhilip Trott Posts: 1,040Administrator admin
    edited 19 December 2016, 8:55PM

    I found this thread as I am suddenly seeing this problem now. May have coincided with a recording I was playing ending without me pressing stop and the having the 'Playback has ended' message on screen for more than half an hour yesterday evening. Now today when playing back a recording or trying to record something playback is stopping after as little as 1 minute or so on the recorded file or in my first test case after about 2 minutes of an attempted recording.

    Can't believe I am going to have to shell out for another PVR, now. It certainly won't be a You view one.

    Hi Colino,

    Thanks for feeding back on you experience with this, and I'm sorry to hear you have been having trouble with the recording playback. You mentioned this seems to be working after a factory reset, please let me know if this reoccurs for you so we can look into it further.

    You mentioned that this issue surfaced after playing back a recording till the end and leaving the 'recording has ended' message on screen for some time. I wondered if you could let me know what recording this was and the date/ time of the programme (Also how long it was left on this screen for)?

    Additionally where there any concurrent recordings during playback of this one, and was it immediately following this recording where you noticed the playback issues on the other ones?

    Thanks,

    Phil
  • Colino GreenColino Green Posts: 27Member
    edited 21 February 2015, 12:37PM

    I found this thread as I am suddenly seeing this problem now. May have coincided with a recording I was playing ending without me pressing stop and the having the 'Playback has ended' message on screen for more than half an hour yesterday evening. Now today when playing back a recording or trying to record something playback is stopping after as little as 1 minute or so on the recorded file or in my first test case after about 2 minutes of an attempted recording.

    Can't believe I am going to have to shell out for another PVR, now. It certainly won't be a You view one.

    Hello Phil

    Not sure what I was watching on Wednesday evening when the 'recording was ended' message was left on the screen. It may have either been Homeland (C4HD) or that Science Fiction documentary from BBC2HD originally shown last Saturday. As I mentioned earlier, it was at least half an hour that the message was left on the screen (possibly longer). There were no other recordings that the box was doing as far as I can remember as I don't think there was anything that I thought was worth recording on Wednesday evening.

    One thing I don't like about the Youview box (Humax DTR 1010) is the way it writes to the hard disk. If you press the STOP button when playing a recording, you can sometimes see a split second image of a previous recording on the screen when playback is halted. Additionally, since I bought the box in August 2013, pressing STOP has sometime resulted in the recording jumping back to the start and being labelled as 'Watched' even when nowhere near the end of the recording. If you press the 'CLOSE' button to pause a recording there are never any issues with recordings that you have not finished watching going back to the start, so I do not press STOP anymore. Could previously written sectors on the Hard drive be causing a problem, here?

    Also, with the 'Recording has ended' message on the screen, I think you are able to here the sound of the current channel in the background (can't remember for definite) Could the PVR be buffering / recording the 'Recording has ended' message for however long it is on the screen? Over time, deleting recordings either manually or automatically is going to mean the hard disk is going to get fragmented (Seen this a lot in my various IT system admin roles down the years). Could the box be responding badly to certain images or data such as the possible 'recording as ended' images that may have been stored on the hard drive as a result of the buffering for pausing of live tv?

    I think that the way the PVR reads the hard disk is a good possible 'smoking gun' to look at, here. Anyway, hope this give the relevant people trying to fix the fault at least something to think about.
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Posts: 795Member
    edited 3 May 2017, 11:39PM
    This will be a VERY boring comment for anyone who didn't start using computers back in the '60s!

    We had a payroll system that ran on tapes. Each week the new week's data was added via punched card, and the employee record had another sub-record added to it. One week we were calculating the payroll and it just stopped in the middle of the tape - no error - apparently a normal finish - but it hadn't processed all the records. A dump was duly done, and yours truly went off to a quiet corner to try and work out what had gone wrong. As it was a program that I was not responsible for, but one that we just used to do the payroll, I was starting from scratch.

    To cut a long story short, as more and more sub-records got added over time to each record, one employee who had had a lot of sickness and overtime ended up with a very long record. In those days you had to specify the length of the buffer in the program into which the records were sequentially read for processing. This guy's record exceeded the length of the buffer, but what was more incredible was that the portion of memory overwritten by the too-large record included the file control table AND the data that had overwritten that had, by chance, set a valid end-of-file flag. Accordingly, the program thought it had reached the end of file and terminated normally.

    Which is a very boring and long-winded way of suggesting you check buffer sizes etc. etc.

    It does appear a very similar problem - the system THINKING something has ended - even when it shouldn't.

    I'll go back to sleep now.... 
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,962Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 12:57PM

    This will be a VERY boring comment for anyone who didn't start using computers back in the '60s!

    We had a payroll system that ran on tapes. Each week the new week's data was added via punched card, and the employee record had another sub-record added to it. One week we were calculating the payroll and it just stopped in the middle of the tape - no error - apparently a normal finish - but it hadn't processed all the records. A dump was duly done, and yours truly went off to a quiet corner to try and work out what had gone wrong. As it was a program that I was not responsible for, but one that we just used to do the payroll, I was starting from scratch.

    To cut a long story short, as more and more sub-records got added over time to each record, one employee who had had a lot of sickness and overtime ended up with a very long record. In those days you had to specify the length of the buffer in the program into which the records were sequentially read for processing. This guy's record exceeded the length of the buffer, but what was more incredible was that the portion of memory overwritten by the too-large record included the file control table AND the data that had overwritten that had, by chance, set a valid end-of-file flag. Accordingly, the program thought it had reached the end of file and terminated normally.

    Which is a very boring and long-winded way of suggesting you check buffer sizes etc. etc.

    It does appear a very similar problem - the system THINKING something has ended - even when it shouldn't.

    I'll go back to sleep now.... 

    So you don't imagine that anyone has learned from the experiences of 50-odd years ago? How sad on so many levels.
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Posts: 795Member
    edited 2 December 2016, 7:27PM

    This will be a VERY boring comment for anyone who didn't start using computers back in the '60s!

    We had a payroll system that ran on tapes. Each week the new week's data was added via punched card, and the employee record had another sub-record added to it. One week we were calculating the payroll and it just stopped in the middle of the tape - no error - apparently a normal finish - but it hadn't processed all the records. A dump was duly done, and yours truly went off to a quiet corner to try and work out what had gone wrong. As it was a program that I was not responsible for, but one that we just used to do the payroll, I was starting from scratch.

    To cut a long story short, as more and more sub-records got added over time to each record, one employee who had had a lot of sickness and overtime ended up with a very long record. In those days you had to specify the length of the buffer in the program into which the records were sequentially read for processing. This guy's record exceeded the length of the buffer, but what was more incredible was that the portion of memory overwritten by the too-large record included the file control table AND the data that had overwritten that had, by chance, set a valid end-of-file flag. Accordingly, the program thought it had reached the end of file and terminated normally.

    Which is a very boring and long-winded way of suggesting you check buffer sizes etc. etc.

    It does appear a very similar problem - the system THINKING something has ended - even when it shouldn't.

    I'll go back to sleep now.... 

    If there's one thing we learn from history it is that we learn nothing from history. Just look around you. We would have hoped that the world would be far less judgemental by now, but we don't have to look too far from home to see that that hasn't happened.
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,962Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2016, 12:57PM

    This will be a VERY boring comment for anyone who didn't start using computers back in the '60s!

    We had a payroll system that ran on tapes. Each week the new week's data was added via punched card, and the employee record had another sub-record added to it. One week we were calculating the payroll and it just stopped in the middle of the tape - no error - apparently a normal finish - but it hadn't processed all the records. A dump was duly done, and yours truly went off to a quiet corner to try and work out what had gone wrong. As it was a program that I was not responsible for, but one that we just used to do the payroll, I was starting from scratch.

    To cut a long story short, as more and more sub-records got added over time to each record, one employee who had had a lot of sickness and overtime ended up with a very long record. In those days you had to specify the length of the buffer in the program into which the records were sequentially read for processing. This guy's record exceeded the length of the buffer, but what was more incredible was that the portion of memory overwritten by the too-large record included the file control table AND the data that had overwritten that had, by chance, set a valid end-of-file flag. Accordingly, the program thought it had reached the end of file and terminated normally.

    Which is a very boring and long-winded way of suggesting you check buffer sizes etc. etc.

    It does appear a very similar problem - the system THINKING something has ended - even when it shouldn't.

    I'll go back to sleep now.... 

    You are voicing an individual opinion, which is fine. But please don't ascribe that as a generality.
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Posts: 795Member
    edited 2 December 2016, 7:27PM

    This will be a VERY boring comment for anyone who didn't start using computers back in the '60s!

    We had a payroll system that ran on tapes. Each week the new week's data was added via punched card, and the employee record had another sub-record added to it. One week we were calculating the payroll and it just stopped in the middle of the tape - no error - apparently a normal finish - but it hadn't processed all the records. A dump was duly done, and yours truly went off to a quiet corner to try and work out what had gone wrong. As it was a program that I was not responsible for, but one that we just used to do the payroll, I was starting from scratch.

    To cut a long story short, as more and more sub-records got added over time to each record, one employee who had had a lot of sickness and overtime ended up with a very long record. In those days you had to specify the length of the buffer in the program into which the records were sequentially read for processing. This guy's record exceeded the length of the buffer, but what was more incredible was that the portion of memory overwritten by the too-large record included the file control table AND the data that had overwritten that had, by chance, set a valid end-of-file flag. Accordingly, the program thought it had reached the end of file and terminated normally.

    Which is a very boring and long-winded way of suggesting you check buffer sizes etc. etc.

    It does appear a very similar problem - the system THINKING something has ended - even when it shouldn't.

    I'll go back to sleep now.... 

    Thank you for deciding it is fine for me to voice an individual opinion, Redchiz, but since when did you become the arbiter of what I should or shouldn't post here, and whether it is fine or not?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 7 December 2016, 7:39AM

    This will be a VERY boring comment for anyone who didn't start using computers back in the '60s!

    We had a payroll system that ran on tapes. Each week the new week's data was added via punched card, and the employee record had another sub-record added to it. One week we were calculating the payroll and it just stopped in the middle of the tape - no error - apparently a normal finish - but it hadn't processed all the records. A dump was duly done, and yours truly went off to a quiet corner to try and work out what had gone wrong. As it was a program that I was not responsible for, but one that we just used to do the payroll, I was starting from scratch.

    To cut a long story short, as more and more sub-records got added over time to each record, one employee who had had a lot of sickness and overtime ended up with a very long record. In those days you had to specify the length of the buffer in the program into which the records were sequentially read for processing. This guy's record exceeded the length of the buffer, but what was more incredible was that the portion of memory overwritten by the too-large record included the file control table AND the data that had overwritten that had, by chance, set a valid end-of-file flag. Accordingly, the program thought it had reached the end of file and terminated normally.

    Which is a very boring and long-winded way of suggesting you check buffer sizes etc. etc.

    It does appear a very similar problem - the system THINKING something has ended - even when it shouldn't.

    I'll go back to sleep now.... 

    @churchwarden

    I started reading your war story soon after you posted it, and I've only just woken up ;-)

    But Shellshock was a buffer overflow issue, and so in a way was Heartbleed, which depended on spoofing a buffer length; so no, we haven't learned anything in 50 years.

    Not in Unix and not in Windows anyway; and while the MPE/iX I work with will never let you stray outside your designated data area, and most certainly will never execute data, you can still overflow inside your own data area in certain circumstances, and thus shoot yourself in the foot.

    But in the 'usual suspects' OSes, as employed in the YouView code, you can machine-gun both your legs off with perilous ease.
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
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