yvm302 problem
Derek Dolman
Posts: 21Member
I know there have been several conversations on this but none very recently so thought I should start a new one. Last week my DTR-T1010 You View box, bought from John Lewis 18 months ago, suddenly cut out while watching live TV and came up with the yvm302 message. I checked all the cables, etc, and noted that the signal was perfect using my TV's own tuner fed from the coaxial cable via the You View box. I turned the you View box completely off, waited about 30 secs and restarted it. Nothing at first but after doing this several times, the box sprang back to life. Problem solved I thought, but after about an hour, it came up with the yvm302 message again and I was unable to get any live TV channels. Since then, I've been through the same routine several times. The live TV never lasts more than about an hour before cutting off again and I've missed several programmes that I had set the You View box up to record. During the time it's on it is showing signal strength 71% and signal quality 100%. As it's still under warranty, should I just return it to John Lewis?
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Did you do the resets this way?
And can you clarify for me, and maybe others who might be interested, the logic of the procedure you advocate? I'm wondering what will be happening in the five minutes and the two minutes respectively?
I agree with your comments that when getting 71/100, the YVM302 is most unlikely to be real, BTW.
The point of the procedure is the box is part of a chain - server to hub/router, router to the box, box to TV. A glitch anywhere in the chain (eg even a slightly off router) can cause knock-on problems for the box, so this full system re-set is to try to eliminate the glitch in whatever part of the chain it may be.
In Dereks case, I doubt the yvm302 error is either aerial or signal related and may be on the IP side of things, which can have a knock-on effect on normal Freeview functions.
I'll report back if it happens again, which I expect it to, or if there seems to be a permanent cure this time. There's obviously some sort of intermittent fault with the tuners in the box somewhere, which perhaps a full reset will cure, but so far I've been reluctant to resort to that because it would wipe out my recordings. I would add that throughout this problem, I've been able to watch live TV using the TV tuner via the coax cable output from the You View box, and the internet connection from the router is also OK so I can get BBC iplayer, for instance.
I see your thinking here, and concur that a chain reset is a good thing to try.
However, I doubt that a YouView box in Standby will change much over five minutes. Even a High Eco one that is not recording will need 15-20 minutes before it drifts off into its deep sleep.
So my money would be on:-
(where Power Off in each case means not just the switch on the back, if any, but a full pull-the-plug mains disconnect).
Power off YouView box from Standby
Power off any Powerline Adaptor at the YouView end.
Power off any Powerline Adaptor at the router end.
Wait two minutes to be sure the router has noticed all this
Power off the router.
Wait two minutes to be sure the exchange has noticed.
Power on the router.
When it is stable, reset it (ideally, if this won't disrupt too much else. A router that has been powered off and then on again is not a reset one).
Power on any Powerline Adaptor at the router end
Power on any Powerline Adaptor at the YouView end
Finally, power on the YouView box.
When it is stable (or when it asks) try a retune.
In the above, the YouView box will be completely powered off for five minutes.
I suspect, as we now have two separate reported cases of this, that it will turn out to be the firmware/software at fault, and the above will make no difference, but I am prepared to be pleasantly surprised here, and it has to be worth a go at least.
What I don't understand is how the box could work perfectly for 18 months and then start going haywire and how, after getting it working again, it only lasts for between one and four hours. I know it's basically a computer and computers do go wrong but usually because they've been attacked by a virus or worm or whatever, or they've become so full that they slow down. But I've never had a computer with this sort of intermittent problem. I don't know if anybody from Humax follows these conversations but, if so, perhaps they could comment.
Anyway, I'll try and watch a couple of the films I've been saving ("Lone Star" and "Aguirre, Wrath of God" in case you're interested) and then do a full factory reset. If that doesn't work, I'll be returning it to John Lewis. I've seen on other threads that Humax often replace a returned box with a refurbished one - can I insist on a new one or do they have the right to do that?
Insurance companies, when replacing new for old, would often try to charge for betterment, but it led to bad feeling, which is why they now all, pretty much, do new for old.
Though not on cars :-)
But you are not dealing with Humax anyway - you are dealing with John Lewis, and last time I looked, they were one of those 'better companies '(or partnerships!), so you might reasonably be able to stick out for a new replacement with them.
Your box runs for a bit because after refreshing all the software it is OK, but due to the fault - bad memory, bad firmware, or why - sooner or later, it reasserts itself.
I remain intrigued as to how it's always the same fault that comes back for a given faulty box, though, instead of something else at random.
Why it works for 18 months and then suddenly fails is easier to explain - if stuff didn't do that, it would last forever, and nothing does. 18 months is pretty poor though. But we are assured that the Humax failure rate is 'within industry standards'. I guess if there is an exclusive category for Humax YouView PVRs and mayflies, this could be true, though personally, I'd put my money on the mayflies.
I would not call your problem intermittent though. Intermittent problems come and go without any discernible user action or state change. You have a permanent problem that you can make temporarily go away :-(
Oh, and I can't claim any credit for my fix lasting twice as long as Visionman's; that was just the luck of the draw, and it could just as easily have been half as long, or worse. I think it's clear now that you have a fault with your box that nothing short of a full factory reset will fix.
And maybe not even that, so don't leave it too long before trying this option, lest your JL guarantee runs out :-(
Regarding the June 2015 software update thread, on which I posted a reply, my box states: "last updated: never", although I believe the software is up to date at release 21.30.50. Is it a coincidence that my problems started on or around the software release? I suppose I'll never know.
Will report back after the factory reset.
If you dealt with contracts, then you will know about the important distinctions about who the parties are,
Humax is not a party to the contract between you and John Lewis, the terms of which, unless otherwise stated in a guarantee document from John Lewis, are as set out in the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (As Amended).
And as neither you nor John Lewis can abrogate these rights, it follows that a JL guarantee can only offer you additional rights to those in the Act.
The Act entitles you to a repair, replacement or refund; but as the Act was appallingly badly drafted in this wise, it does not make clear whose choice this is, yours or the retailer's.
In general, it is reckoned to be the retailer's choice, but someone might like to challenge this in the higher courts, as the wording certainly supports this being the consumer's choice of remedy.
You will have great difficulty pursuing Humax for breach of contract anyway; you would have to prove the defect was inherent, and caused by Humax, which 18 months of satisfactory operation, and failure after an update by YouView , as you have alleged here, would completely give the lie to.
You could certainly tell John Lewis that you are not interested in a repair or a replacement, though, as the product has proved so terminally unsatisfactory (allude to all you lost recordings) and that you want your money back. Which, if done, must be done in the same way that you paid originally, and you are entitled to decline either a credit note or JL vouchers.
Then slip round to Richer Sounds for your T2000; they give a five-year warranty for about 10% of the purchase price, which must give them a few nervous gulps every time they sell a YouView box.
(I wish I didn't know all this stuff, but I have fought (and won) a couple of consumer battles. However, having right on your side is as nothing compared with having a wife who is impelled to kick off mid-store, loudly and in public, where my promise of 'Give me my money back and I'll take her outside' suddenly proves remarkably attractive :-)
Very unhappy for you about that 'Last Updated: Never' though. That's not at all right, and clearly part of the problem.
Sorry our suggestions didn't work Derek, but as Roy says, you now know its the box and nothing else. In regard to the well regarded John Lewis warranty, they will either indemnify or better you. Or as you know getting a refund may be an avenue. If that happens, as Roy says, head for Richer Sounds, but sign up to their VIP club first as that will get you £10 off the purchase price.
There is also a contract in place between me and John Lewis under the Sale of Goods Act and the specific sale terms laid down by John Lewis (which are not allowed to reduce the SOGA rights) including a two year guarantee provided by John Lewis. So I have a choice of which contract I wish to pursue my claim under. Guess which one I will choose? The JL guarantee states:
"We're covering the product to remain in working order for the life of the guarantee – in other words against manufacturing defect causing breakdown. If the product's used in the prescribed way and it breaks down, our duty is to get the appliance back to working order – and if we can't do that, we'll replace it with the same model, or discuss an alternative with you if that's no longer available."
I think I can use that to say that a refurbished product from Humax is not an acceptable alternative because it will have had unknown faults which Humax say they have fixed but how do I know that.
Incidentally, JL will almost certainly have a supply agreement in place with Humax (and their other suppliers) under which the supplier (in this case Humax) indemnifies JL for any costs incurred by them under their guarantee. In return, the agreement probably says that JL will return any faulty product to Humax in the first instance to give them the opportunity to repair it.
Thanks for the tip about Richer Sounds. They both sell the T2000 for about £175 but JL's three year guarantee for an extra £20 doesn't compare with Richer's six years for £17.45 (as long as Richer survives for another six years!)
If I am replacing the DTR-T1010, I would also consider a Humax HDR2000T. It's not a YouView box but some say it's a better PVR. It seems you can still access on demand services through the ethernet cable connected to the router, but without the functionality of YouView. Since I don't use on demand very much, I'm more interested in a reliable PVR. It looks like the HDR also has better access to material on your PC like photos which would be good
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Soft restart didn't work.
Just trying a retune now. (Which seems to have worked but for how long?)
And its deleted all the scheduled recordings again. FFS
I tried a "soft" reset first by holding the power button for 8 seconds, when it rebooted the YVM302 message popped up again.
I don't mean reset, I mean retune as above. I still lost all my scheduled recordings but all the recorded stuff remained intact as I would expect as it was just a retune.
Box is going back to Humax anyway, and its quite clearly fubar.