When are youview going to allow padding on recordings

golflragolflra Posts: 3Member
edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM in Support
general question

Comments

  • Peter WellsPeter Wells Posts: 9Member
    edited 12 March 2017, 8:39PM
    The short answer is never. YV boxes use a signal that broadcasters should send at the start and end of the programme otherwise it defaults to the EPG data. If you are missing parts of a recording, blame the channel not YV
  • golflragolflra Posts: 3Member
    edited 12 March 2017, 12:46AM
    I do blame youview because I know other providers offer this option so they should as well this particularly happens on Internet recordings when it obviously doesn't pick up a signal
  • DanielDaniel Posts: 1,948Member ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    Its completely optional ofcom don't force broadcasters to send AR signals if they don't want to. So because of not been forced many don't even bother. My advice hide any channels that don't use AR and email the broadcasters to tell them you are not using there channel until they introduce AR technology. If enough do it some may listen.
  • Yasha NokeYasha Noke Posts: 314Member
    edited 3 March 2017, 11:12PM

    The short answer is never. YV boxes use a signal that broadcasters should send at the start and end of the programme otherwise it defaults to the EPG data. If you are missing parts of a recording, blame the channel not YV

    What do you mean by "should"?
    E.g. Do you mean that you would like the broadcasters to send a signal at the start and the end?
  • Peter WellsPeter Wells Posts: 9Member
    edited 3 March 2017, 11:41PM

    The short answer is never. YV boxes use a signal that broadcasters should send at the start and end of the programme otherwise it defaults to the EPG data. If you are missing parts of a recording, blame the channel not YV

    It's part of the Freeview specifications like the green button booking flag. As Daniel explains not all broafcasters use them which is why the box defaults back to the EPG. The system is preferable to padding a fixed schedule - what happens if the show you want to record follows a sports match that goes into extra time? Your other option is to lobby OfCom to make start/end flags compulsory although Five SD were notorious for errors!
  • Yasha NokeYasha Noke Posts: 314Member
    edited 3 March 2017, 11:58PM

    The short answer is never. YV boxes use a signal that broadcasters should send at the start and end of the programme otherwise it defaults to the EPG data. If you are missing parts of a recording, blame the channel not YV

    I know that the ability to control the start time of a programme (and by implication the end) is part of d-book and freeview specifications.  What I was asking was what you mean by 'should'.

    If you meant that it is mandatory then you are mistaken.

    http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/industry/Channels/launching_and_managing_a_service provides links to how to launch a channel and how to be schedule provider.  Both  state that 'accurate recording' is optional.  
    http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/86325/DUK_Guide_for_launching_a_channel_on_DTT_V9.pdf
    http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/86326/DUK_Guide_for_Schedule_Providers.pdf

    When 'accurate recording' is provided it is a substitute for the scheduled timings in the EIT p/f.  
    Providing EIT p/f info is mandatory but signing up to including 'accurate recording' in the EIT p/f is not mandatory. The links make this very obvious as they do state that 'accurate recording' is optional and that if provided they are in substitute of the scheduled recording timings.
  • Tim GrundeyTim Grundey Posts: 18Member
    edited 10 March 2017, 11:48AM
    If broadcasters are going to send start & end signal they should be accurate. UKTv programmes often miss the start on a scheduled recording.
    Series record function should work or don't offer it. Channel 5 often fails here.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,198Member ✭✭✭
    edited 10 March 2017, 9:51PM
    No, the fault lies with Youview, behaving as if AR is mandatory, when it isn't, and not providing any capability to address the difficulties that result from this.
    Where do all those characters that you type in search boxes and which never appear go to?
  • edited 11 March 2017, 10:12AM
    golflra said:

    I do blame youview because I know other providers offer this option so they should as well this particularly happens on Internet recordings when it obviously doesn't pick up a signal

    We'll go to another provider, youview want clean start and finish which is determined by the broadcaster, it did not work well at first but few years on it work very well. If u prefer another provider then switch but Youview offers great value very often TV with smart features for free saving you £loads.
  • edited 11 March 2017, 10:13AM
    Daniel4 said:

    Its completely optional ofcom don't force broadcasters to send AR signals if they don't want to. So because of not been forced many don't even bother. My advice hide any channels that don't use AR and email the broadcasters to tell them you are not using there channel until they introduce AR technology. If enough do it some may listen.

    Why hide the channel, most use AR
  • edited 19 April 2017, 9:35AM
    Roy you having another cheeky moan, if your happy and you know it clap your hands.
  • Tim CTim C Posts: 405Member ✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 10:49AM

    Roy you having another cheeky moan, if your happy and you know it clap your hands.

    Totally agree with Roy on that. Other devices I've used like Sky+ & my Panasonics also have AR BUT do allow for some extra padding , if you care to add it.
    “Where’s ‘Jump to Time’ and all that other OldGen good stuff that was promised to come back, including the proper ‘Hide Channels’ etc etc.., rather than the unnecessary & unasked for that does get added and serves no useful purpose? Give me optional lists as well :) ."
  • golflragolflra Posts: 3Member
    edited 11 March 2017, 4:32PM

    Roy you having another cheeky moan, if your happy and you know it clap your hands.

    I don't know
    why YV don't just listen to their customers and implement this it would be a simple thing for them to do
  • Yasha NokeYasha Noke Posts: 314Member
    edited 11 March 2017, 10:45PM

    Roy you having another cheeky moan, if your happy and you know it clap your hands.

    It is not simple, but it is not as complex as some comments I've seen would imply.

    Three years ago there was a Q&A which included a question on padding.  At the time the way I read the Youview reply was that Youview could not see it as being viable to request Humax and Huewai to update their boxes and also integrate with the updated youview software which itself would take Youview significant effort to design and develop something viable.
    Re-reading it now I'm not sure how to interpret the reply! 
    It's question 9 of
    http://videos.youview.com/support/QuestionAndAnswer.pdf
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,436Member ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 11:13PM

    Roy you having another cheeky moan, if your happy and you know it clap your hands.

    Piers: We've worked closely with all broadcasters to improve their signalling and we continue to monitor programmes on all channels. Adding padding to work with Accurate Recording would be complex if it was just YouView software that needed changing but we'd have to ask our device manufacturers to update their software too. 

    I miss Piers.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,198Member ✭✭✭
    edited 11 March 2017, 11:28PM

    Roy you having another cheeky moan, if your happy and you know it clap your hands.

    They Brighton your life?
    Where do all those characters that you type in search boxes and which never appear go to?
  • DanielDaniel Posts: 1,948Member ✭✭✭
    edited 12 March 2017, 12:30AM
    Daniel4 said:

    Its completely optional ofcom don't force broadcasters to send AR signals if they don't want to. So because of not been forced many don't even bother. My advice hide any channels that don't use AR and email the broadcasters to tell them you are not using there channel until they introduce AR technology. If enough do it some may listen.

    Its obvious from my post I'm clearly talking about hiding channels that don't use AR and you would be surprised how many don't use AR. Outside of BBC ITV channel 4 and 5 and there sister and most of the UKTV channels you will be Lucky to find channels that use AR. Most of the smaller broadcasters don't bother.

    Some example without AR are

    CBS drama
    CBS action
    CBS reality
    CBS reality plus one
    Horror channel
    Movies for men
    True crime
    True entertainment
    True movies
    Pick TV
    Challenge TV
    Community channel
    RT
    Rt HD
    Kix
    Tiny pop
    Pop
    Food network
    Travel channel

    That's just naming a few so a good majority of the channels outside of the major broadcasters and one broadcaster who don't seam bothered about there free view channels don't use AR.

    The only way you get a full recording off any of these channels is if the broadcasters get there timing near enough perfect to the scheduled time which a lot of times they don't.

    If you record a series for a while on any of the CBS channels on some of the episodes you will miss about a minute or two of the end. Sometimes the beginning has been clipped as well. All shows I taped on community channel clipped the beginning. True crime clips the recaps part of dog the Bounty hunter.

    Since com 7 and 8 came live and more smaller channels joined free view this has become a major problem. Its even worse if you have IP channels comedy central while they have improved there timing recently its still not 100 percent.

    Padding is needed more then ever and it should be up to the users if they switch it on or not. This is a major issue.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,436Member ✭✭✭
    edited 12 March 2017, 12:39AM

    Roy you having another cheeky moan, if your happy and you know it clap your hands.

    That one was awful. 

    Just for avoidance of doubt - YouView will not be introducing padding into and onto their platform. Such information has been known for years, and the introduction of NextGen won't be changing that. 

    So to refer back to the OPs first answer to his/her question -

    "The short answer is never."
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